Board 8 > Mass Effect Discussion Topic - Does This Topic Have a Soul? (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I failed Thane's Loyalty Mission trying to find the dancing Turian.

Worth it.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

What's weird is that I romanced Thane and I didn't get terribly sad even though I SAID I DIDN'T WANT TO WATCH HIM DYING IN A HOSPITAL BED!

Maybe it's because the coughing didn't match the movements that it kinda broke my immersion.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

There's a dancing Turian? Why did I not know this?

--
http://img.imgcake.com/SgtSphynx/raypngjaez.png
http://img.imgcake.com/SgtSphynx/raydynpngtyse.png

And the saddest scene was watching Mordin crawl towards the panel after shooting him.

Good Lord, that was hard to watch.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

RayDyn posted...
There's a dancing Turian? Why did I not know this?



--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

From: RayDyn | #053
There's a dancing Turian? Why did I not know this?

Dear jesus I have only posted it about a hundred times before!

Techno turian is the greatest.

--
~Halo There is no Crane, only Scarecrow!
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3739/scarecrowq.jpg

From: TheRock1525 | #054
And the saddest scene was watching Mordin crawl towards the panel after shooting him.

Good Lord, that was hard to watch.

That's not sad, it's soul crushingly mortifying.

--
~Halo Everybody run!
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6195/furriese.jpg

ShadowHalo17 posted...
From: TheRock1525 | #054
And the saddest scene was watching Mordin crawl towards the panel after shooting him.

Good Lord, that was hard to watch.
That's not sad, it's soul crushingly mortifying.

hmm

(looks up scene)

........holy **** T_T

--
XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2
"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

Getting your soul crushed is pretty damn sad.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Yeah, Shepard shooting Mordin is an entirely different category of emotion. That would literally be the last decision in the series I would ever make. It almost makes killing Wrex seem acceptable by comparison.

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

It's just completely repulsive. Anyone who can make that decision without feeling like a terrible person is even worse than a terrible person.

--
~Halo Everybody run!
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6195/furriese.jpg

I seem to have missed a lot, so I'll just chip in my two cents about StarChild. Most of what he says are outright lies or incompatible with the rest of the series.

He says that "The created will always rebel against their creators" when everything in history shows otherwise.

The Zha'til were according to Javik a peaceful race that only rose up once the Reapers indoctrinated them.

The Geth were even more peaceful and never once became hostile without provocation. When the Quarians attacked them, they defended themselves until the Quarians fled. As soon as they got 3 miles outside of Rannoch's atmosphere, the Geth pulled back because they did not want to fight and then stayed in behind the Veil for hundreds of years in peace until, again, the Reapers indoctrinated them. Then they broke free of that and stayed peaceful until the Quarians attacked them AGAIN and they had to go back to the Reapers in order to defend themselves. And after all that they still wanted to work peacefully with the Quarians and help rebuild their homeworld, their biosuits, and the Crucible. The series spends three games beating you over the head that the Geth aren't bad people.

EDI states on a number of occasions that she would give her life for the Normandy, her crew, and especially Joker.

StarChild states that the Synthesis is the superior choice because it blends everything thing together in some superior form. This completely flies in the face the moral of ME3 which is that it is the galactic diversity that even got this cycle as far as it did and the uniqueness of each species is what makes them as good as the are -- Basically the sum of the parts being greater than the whole. Even Javik admits that his cycle failed because all of the organics were so homogenized that they could not adapt to the Reaper invasion. That doesn't even get into the fact that unless every piece of metal in the galaxy has somehow become organic by space magic, these hybrids can still make synthetics of their own.

Almost nothing StarChild says meshes with the themes of the games to the point where it seems intentional. IMO

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

Agreed. In fact the entire god damn game pretty much builds up the theme that organics and synthetics can indeed coexist and live in peace.

Then we're told lolnope that's wrong you're wrong accept it

Bull s***.

--
~Halo Give into the Night.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/ShadowHalo/haloshadow1.gif

Also shouldn't the Reapers have rebelled against StarChild in one of these cycles by now under his own logic? <_<

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

The Starchild is the Reapers.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

And I don't see how it flies in the face of the genetic diversity. Krogans are still Krogans, turians are still turians, and humans are still humans.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

And then Starchild was the Reapers.

Sorry about that, it's just every time I see someone post that, I think of that story.

--
Raka's drawing based on my username...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/Ray.png

They really aren't though if they're regulated by synthetic parts.

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

Krogans are still giant walking toads no matter what synthetics you put into them.

I don't see how that changes.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Oh that was priceless.

"So you're a real living Prothean?"

"As opposed to a fake living one?"

"Uh... okay."

--
~Halo There is no Crane, only Scarecrow!
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3739/scarecrowq.jpg

ShadowHalo17 posted...
Oh that was priceless.

"So you're a real living Prothean?"

"As opposed to a fake living one?"

"Uh... okay."

Javik the best.

No exaggeration, best squadmate in ME3.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Sure, with the soul of their species stripped out. They will still 'look' Krogan, but they won't 'act' Krogan. They'd presumably become more docile and like everyone else, unless I'm missing the point of Synthesis completely. If it's just 'everyone is the same as they were, but with a smidge of synthetic interior' then what's the point? Nothing changed in the end. If the point is to be 'synthetics regulate things so that everyone is the same so no one can rise up and hurt anyone anymore' than it is incompatible with the series and everyone is screwed the next time someone makes a robot in a few generations. Neither one is very satisfying.

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

FFDragon posted...
Also shouldn't the Reapers have rebelled against StarChild in one of these cycles by now under his own logic? <_<

Well, when talking about destroying the Reapers, the Catalyst says "us" instead of "them," so...take that for what you will.

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

FFDragon posted...
Sure, with the soul of their species stripped out. They will still 'look' Krogan, but they won't 'act' Krogan. They'd presumably become more docile and like everyone else, unless I'm missing the point of Synthesis completely. If it's just 'everyone is the same as they were, but with a smidge of synthetic interior' then what's the point? Nothing changed in the end. If the point is to be 'synthetics regulate things so that everyone is the same so no one can rise up and hurt anyone anymore' than it is incompatible with the series and everyone is screwed the next time someone makes a robot in a few generations. Neither one is very satisfying.

Yeah, the point of synthesis according to the Catalyst is that it would bring universal peace to the galaxy because it is the peak of evolution or whatever.

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

Javik really is the best though, especially on Thessia.

Liara: (beacon activates, she looks at Shepard) "It must think you're prothean because of the cipher!"
Javik: (Javik looks at her like she's the craziest person in the universe and spits out as sarcastically as possible) "Or it could be the Prothean standing next to you."

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

Sure, with the soul of their species stripped out. They will still 'look' Krogan, but they won't 'act' Krogan. They'd presumably become more docile and like everyone else, unless I'm missing the point of Synthesis completely. If it's just 'everyone is the same as they were, but with a smidge of synthetic interior' then what's the point? Nothing changed in the end. If the point is to be 'synthetics regulate things so that everyone is the same so no one can rise up and hurt anyone anymore' than it is incompatible with the series and everyone is screwed the next time someone makes a robot in a few generations. Neither one is very satisfying.

This is a lot of projecting.

Why do they lose their "soul?"

Why do they suddenly stop "acting like Krogan."

Why do they become more docile?

To me, the whole point of synthesis is that it's a complete unknown. You've created whole new races with their own path outside of the mathematics.

You have no idea what's going to happen with these new races.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

TheRock1525 posted...
Sure, with the soul of their species stripped out. They will still 'look' Krogan, but they won't 'act' Krogan. They'd presumably become more docile and like everyone else, unless I'm missing the point of Synthesis completely. If it's just 'everyone is the same as they were, but with a smidge of synthetic interior' then what's the point? Nothing changed in the end. If the point is to be 'synthetics regulate things so that everyone is the same so no one can rise up and hurt anyone anymore' than it is incompatible with the series and everyone is screwed the next time someone makes a robot in a few generations. Neither one is very satisfying.

This is a lot of projecting.

Why do they lose their "soul?"

Why do they suddenly stop "acting like Krogan."

Why do they become more docile?

To me, the whole point of synthesis is that it's a complete unknown. You've created whole new races with their own path outside of the mathematics.

You have no idea what's going to happen with these new races.

Well, if you believe what the Catalyst says, there will be peace and there's no need for the Reapers anymore...

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

TheRock1525 posted...
This is a lot of projecting.

Why do they lose their "soul?"

Why do they suddenly stop "acting like Krogan."

Why do they become more docile?

To me, the whole point of synthesis is that it's a complete unknown. You've created whole new races with their own path outside of the mathematics.

You have no idea what's going to happen with these new races.

LeonhartFour posted...
Yeah, the point of synthesis according to the Catalyst is that it would bring universal peace to the galaxy because it is the peak of evolution or whatever.

A Krogan that isn't fighting something is barely a Krogan at all.

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

Universal Peace implies that as a whole, the universe will be peaceful.

Doesn't mean personal conflicts would completely disappear.

Although, if this creates peace across the entire galaxy and ends suffering from war, it just makes my decision to go with synthesis that much better.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Until another race pulls a Quarian "whoopsy."

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

synthetics can't rebel against synthetics.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

TheRock1525 posted...
synthetics can't rebel against synthetics.

The geth heretics beg to differ.

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

that wasnt a rebellion, it was a rounding error

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

TheRock1525 posted...
that wasnt a rebellion, it was a rounding error

I always destroy my computers for rounding errors.

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

Tag.

Multiplayer, woot!

--
Women come and go, but Metal Gear is forever.
Perfect Odds A Cappella ~ http://i43.tinypic.com/34pdhc7.jpg

i didnt destroy any computers

i fixed the rounding errors

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Again, PSN is Futuresuperstar

Add me for playing ME3 multiplayer on PS3!

--
Women come and go, but Metal Gear is forever.
Perfect Odds A Cappella ~ http://i43.tinypic.com/34pdhc7.jpg

The Geth didn't rebel against the Quarians either. They defended themselves.

Unless you're saying that the hybrids wouldn't provoke the new pure synthetics in some way that initiated their self-preservation programming, intentionally or accidentally. If the hybrids ended up creating synthetics to complete a task and tried to deactivate them after they were done, even without malicious intent it could spark another war.

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

I'm trying to record We Came To Play and I'm spending more time in here getting distracted.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

I'm starting to think Rock has been indoctrinated by the Catalyst. The Reapers have won.

I for one welcome our new Reaper overlords

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

I apologize.

We just like the ending for two entirely different reason and that's all there is to it, it seems.

Here's another breakdown on some of the things screwy with the ending if anyone wants to skim:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true

Some of it is admittedly retarded, but the meat of what's there is good.

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

WE ARE TRAPPER KEEPER

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

FFD, just curious, what do you think about my point about the Illusive Man from the previous topic?

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

I haven't actually gone back and caught up on everything I just some STARCHILD talk and talk about the geth and wanted to throw in my opinion, as late as it was.

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

I'd buy into the Indoctrination Theory if there wasn't a plothole so big you could drive a Mack Truck through it.

The Illusive Man's role.

See, according the theory, TIM represents the indoctrinated part of the mind, except there's one fatal flaw: it's the Illusive Man. The same man Shepard despises. The same man Shepard doesn't trust in the slightest. Arguably, outside of the Reapers, Shepard's greatest enemy (more so than Saren, even). They talk about in the codex how Indoctrination turns enemy into friend and friends into enemy. Yet in this scenario, the Reaper Indoctrination doesn't do that. It turns enemy into... well, enemy. Why would the Reaper Indoctrination allow the Illusive Man to represent the Indoctrinated aspect of Shepard's mind? It makes it much easier to resist someone you don't trust and you despise. If the Reapers were trying to trick Shepard into betraying himself and falling under Indoctrination, why not use Anderson? Take a father figure that Shepard trusts, and turn him against him. Makes it much easier to control Shepard when you present him with his friends turning against him. And considering the fact that at no point does Shepard fall in line with TIM's line of thinking and EASILY resists him (either verbally or physically after he initially shoots Anderson) shows that either the Reapers are pants-on-head stupid in terms of Indoctrination or that the scene you're watching play out is real.

There's also the fact that when present with the choices, the visual representation of the "control" option is TIM. Now, once again, why are the Reapers allowing an image of Shepard's greatest enemy to represent the choice they want him most to fall in line with? Why would Shepard ever go with something the Illusive Man wanted to do?

There's also another big plothole: no one is able to recover from Indoctrination. Everyone that's fallen under it has never been able to fully break it. They can resist, temporarily, and it's why guys like TIM and Saren chose suicide. It's why Matriarch Benezia temporarily broke it only to immediately fall back under it's control. The closest you can come is the Rachni Queen. And considering that they speak telepathically via music, I assume that's what makes them somewhat immune to Indoctrination.

Also, the Mass Relays blowing up really didn't bother me because they were created by the Reapers, and destroying them was supposed to be symbolic of the galaxy now forging it's own future rather than using the future laid out for them by the Reapers.

See, the problem I have with the ending is so much of it has to be extrapolated rather than shown. I don't mind what I saw, I just hate what I didn't see.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

This one's easy. As soon as Shepard is told this, he turns to StarChild and says something along the lines of 'So TIM was right after all, huh?' He instantly buys it.

--
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

Yeah, that doesn't fly with me FFD.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Okay so since I have not really been paying attention, who here hates the ending, who here likes it, and who here doesn't give a f***?

So far from what I've gathered:

Who hates it:
Halo

Who likes it:
Rock

Who doesn't give a f***:
RayDyn?

--
~Halo Live, fight, survive, as a family.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7469/batfamily.jpg

Also mention if you do or do not believe the indoctrination theory.

--
~Halo Rolling around at the speed of sound.
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2417/sonicspeed.jpg

Especially since it doesn't counter what I said: why would Shepard choose the option his greatest enemy would choose? Doesn't matter if the TIM was right controlling the Reapers was possible, the fact that a despicable human being wants to do that, whereas the image of his heroic father figure is shown destroying the Reapers, why would Shepard think twice about picking the destroy option?

Unless you think Shepard secretly resents Anderson and wants to know what it's like to be a Reaper.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.