Board 8 > If you haven't seen how awful Metroid: Other M is, here's your chance *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

So maybe a bad game doesn't seem as bad to me because I kinda think every game is sorta bad, and this one was not particularly more offensive than average.

eesh I'd like to know what you consider an actually acceptable game then
let alone good

--
FC 1849 0634 8041
Boring sig is boring

redrocket posted...
janembaman posted...
ITT the same people that hated Fusion because it had story and it always told you where to go - hate Metroid Other M as well

You know what? your opinion sucks
Metroid Fusion was awesome and I believe Other M will be awesome as well

ITP, someone who hasn't read a single post in this topic and doesn't have a damn clue what he is talking about.

No need
I already read the previous topic about Other M (which was...a month ago?)
And I know the reasons people are crying for
"bla bla bla they turned Samus into crybaby why is she afraid of Ridley aaaaaaaaaaa"

herp

I read your post in slowbeefridley voice. Janembaman

--
FC 1849 0634 8041
Boring sig is boring

"bla bla bla they turned Samus into crybaby why is she afraid of Ridley aaaaaaaaaaa"

Nah just referenced an obscure e-manga never officially translated into English in which she overcame her fear of Ridley, and has since faced him several times even without counting Metroid Prime as canon.

Gameplay doesn't save it either seeing as it's just "SenseMove, the game". The only times you die in Other M are when you don't mash the D-Pad enough or when you fall prey to the game's weird instant death scenarios. Even death is a slap on the wrist since you just start in the same room again, at that. Wheras Dark Samus can be called legitimately the most difficult boss in the Metroid series on Hypermode difficulty, Other M falls flat for any difficulty at all. It's horrifically linear (no, not even Fusion is that linear), it has constant fighting with few puzzles, and its storyline is ludicrous and impossible to ignore.

One other stupid thing that barely anyone knows btw: You can skip cutscenes on Hard mode in Other M. The time they'd normally take, however, is still added to your total end time when you beat the game. What the hell is up with that? Nightmare for speedrunners.

--
Geologists will date anything.

Other M was better than the original Metroid.

**** starting with 30 damn health.

--
SuperNiceDog may be the Guru Champion...
But SuperBowlGiants are the NFL Champions!

All of those things you listed are subjective quantities.

Good night.

And 14-year-old logic strikes again. Bravo.

Seriously, if you want to play the opinion card, I can just end things at my opinion that Other M (story) supporters are rather dense and stupid. But since I find intelligent, evidence-based discussion enlightening, I'd prefer to go down that road. Your call.

And honestly, while the game's writing certainly left a lot to be desired, it wasn't that bad. It had its moments, even. Not exactly high praise but I can think of worse written games that people love.

I would love to see an example of a "worse-written," story-centric game that people love. This wouldn't include games that are badly translated, because there the pieces that make up the events of the story can still be very tight.

Here it is:
"The games that I've been involved with in the Metroid series have been on the NES, GameBoy, Super NES and the GBA. I actually didn't have a lot of input on the Prime series. But when they're doing with Other M here, it's not so much a different universe, it's just a different part of the story. You can't say that there's no relation here; it's probably best to think of them as being in parallel in this world."

He's not saying that they're not canon, just divorced from the main story.

Which we've known since Prime 1 came out.

Yep.

Looks to me like people are pretty much making stuff up completely to try and villify a poor chap who's probably a perfectly decent guy just because he made one game they don't like, despite the many good ones.

Goddamn, when did we get an Other M defense force around here? It's a poorly-received game with a universally abhorred story that no one takes seriously, and watching the full theater mode for the first time only confirms these criticisms. It's baffling.

As for your comment, Sakamoto's clearly saying that the Prime games take place within a separate timeline, i.e. not canon.

And don't get me started on the treatment George Lucas gets! The man makes a few iffy edits (and a few good ones) and suddenly he is the devil.

RedLetterMedia. Just... RedLetterMedia. I feel that any credence Prequel apologists may have once had was crushed with those films. Lucas is a terrible writer and director, but a great businessman.


[By the way, I didn't realize that all the posts I was planning to respond to came from the same person. Thanks for being a contrarian, LS!]

--
Forever LOLphins
http://i.imgur.com/Uo04e.gif

I would love to see an example of a "worse-written," story-centric game that people love

the entire MGS series according to him

-chuckle-

the entire MGS series according to him

-chuckle-

I certainly hope he doesn't say this! The only bad things you can really say about the MGS plot are that it's bloated and a little fantastical, neither of which are deal-breakers. There are no BOTTLE TANKS, for example.

--
Forever LOLphins
http://i.imgur.com/Uo04e.gif

THE BABY

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

NEVER AGAIN WOULD I SEE THE BABY, THE FINALITY OF IT STRUCK ME AGAIN

you know, the baby that I handed over to scientists to be used in experiments with no problem

NEVER AGAIN

"the federation has been developing bio weapons"

ADAM HAS THE FEDERATION BEEN DEVELOPING BIO WEAPONS

--
Forever LOLphins
http://i.imgur.com/Uo04e.gif

If only someone would authorize the use of the grapple beam.

"Samus! I authorize the use of the grapple beam!"

Best part.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

It might be dangerous for your men to go alone. Take this.

that part is great on rewatch

"it might be dangerous for your men to go it alone, I better stay here to make sure everyone is safe"

everyone dies, samus needs to be saved from ridley by anthony twice, ridley is killed off screen by someone else, the main villain is killed by NPCs that randomly showed up

this game is actually amazing

you know what I noticed

samus never does anything

like seriously what does she actually do

she doesn't kill MB

she can't really be credited for killing ridley

she killed nightmare I guess? rescued adam's helmet? cool'

wait jesus christ she didn't even actually kill nightmare, it survived

what the hell

you know what I noticed

samus never does anything

like seriously what does she actually do

She gave Adam a thumbs down right before his impending, pointless suicide. Riveting character study.

--
Forever LOLphins
http://i.imgur.com/Uo04e.gif

INFERIOR RECESSIVE GENES

IT EVEN RAINED THE DAY I WAS BORRRRRRRRN

YOU WERE THE LIGHTNING IN THAT RAIN

THROW OFF THE SHACKLES OF FATE... AND FULFIL YOUR DESTINY

We can do this for MGS too, guys.

From: Westbrick | #1007
And 14-year-old logic strikes again. Bravo.

Seriously, if you want to play the opinion card, I can just end things at my opinion that Other M (story) supporters are rather dense and stupid. But since I find intelligent, evidence-based discussion enlightening, I'd prefer to go down that road. Your call.

I would love to see an example of a "worse-written," story-centric game that people love. This wouldn't include games that are badly translated, because there the pieces that make up the events of the story can still be very tight.

Goddamn, when did we get an Other M defense force around here? It's a poorly-received game with a universally abhorred story that no one takes seriously, and watching the full theater mode for the first time only confirms these criticisms. It's baffling.

As for your comment, Sakamoto's clearly saying that the Prime games take place within a separate timeline, i.e. not canon.

RedLetterMedia. Just... RedLetterMedia. I feel that any credence Prequel apologists may have once had was crushed with those films. Lucas is a terrible writer and director, but a great businessman.

[By the way, I didn't realize that all the posts I was planning to respond to came from the same person. Thanks for being a contrarian, LS!]

Oh man what the hell is wrong with you. People can disagree with you and not be wrong. Calling people you disagree with stupid or apologists is ridiculously insulting. And no, you can never have objective discussions of artistic quality because art itself is subjective. I mean, what is wrong with people liking something you don't? Are you really THAT insecure? The only person acting like a child is you. You're so confident in your own little selfish delusions that you can't possibly imagine a viewpoint outside your own.

By the way, Sakamoto said it was the same universe. Almost those exact words. So obviously not an alternate timeline. It really doesn't matter either way, it's not like he's denying they exist. A lot of good stuff has been in alternate timeline spinoffs.

And really, citing RedLetterMedia? Now the reviews are very informative on the nature of film and well put together. But just because they exist doesn't mean that you have to agree with every word he says, it doesn't make everyone else wrong, and it doesn't justify your sort of behaviour.

By the way, disagreeing does not make me a contrarian. Not like I'm the only one who does it, it's a split issue. And frankly, it's my honest opinion.

--
Something something something
^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig

liquid is also the villain, no one is going to be as offended with him having lines like that because we were never supposed to like him in the first place. and that personality is consistent, it's not like darth vader suddenly NOllercoasting in RotJ after the millionth edit. if ridley turned out to be a ridiculous emo(imagine that with the slowbeef voice...), it'd be mildly disappointing, but wouldn't cause nearly the same negativity as what they did to samus. though really I've always felt like metroid's strength was in it's minimalism, doing a cutscene driven game was more likely than not to result in a train wreck no matter what they did

Oh man what the hell is wrong with you.

Deary me, this sounds like an insult. I thought you were against being judgmental? Shame on you.

People can disagree with you and not be wrong. Calling people you disagree with stupid or apologists is ridiculously insulting.

I can't believe I'm having to explain this.

You can be objectively wrong according to a given standard. For example, if a group's standard for good food on a given night is "Anything unrelated to Italian," and they're served Italian food, then the food is bad unless the standard is changed. As far as storytelling goes, there are agreed-upon (though somewhat ambiguous) standards which we appeal to when making arguments about quality: pacing, character development, consistency, drama to make things compelling, etc. For the purposes of this discussion, you need to do two things:

1) Provide the standards you're using for quality storytelling.
2) Argue why Other M fits these standards.

This will turn your opinion into a strong opinion, one well-defended by argument and evidence.

Are you really THAT insecure?

Another insult, very nice. Incidentally, the "You're insecure!" defense is my personal favorite, because it always comes from the mouths insecure people. Delicious.

You're so confident in your own little selfish delusions that you can't possibly imagine a viewpoint outside your own.

So now I'm "selfish" and "delusional"? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the word "hypocrisy" is really starting to come to mind.

It really doesn't matter either way, it's not like he's denying they exist. A lot of good stuff has been in alternate timeline spinoffs.

I'd agree with this, but a lot of fans would take offense to a mediocre game like Other M being a part of the "main" series with the expertly-crafted Prime trilogy thrown aside into spin-off territory.

And really, citing RedLetterMedia? Now the reviews are very informative on the nature of film and well put together. But just because they exist doesn't mean that you have to agree with every word he says, it doesn't make everyone else wrong, and it doesn't justify your sort of behaviour.

I can tell you're very, very new at debating based on these responses. No worries; I'm patient.

Remember those standards I provided above? They can be applied to RLM like a rubber glove: he's crystal clear about what he's looking for in a film, and then goes about deconstructing the Prequel trilogy in light of his standard. If you agree with his standard (and I'd argue that it's a pretty widespread one), then it's extremely difficult to accept these movies as anything other than wasted potential at best, trash at worst.

There are two ways to respond to RLM, as well as any well-constructed opinion:

1) Yell "Opinions are subjective!" and throw a temper-tantrum like a 14-year-old whose favorite television program was just insulted; discussion comes to a screeching halt.

2) Provide evidence about which standards best reflect true aesthetic quality, or perhaps why a given piece of art or entertainment, when seen from a different perspective, fits better into a standard than was originally realized; discussion moves along fluidly.

And frankly, it's my honest opinion.

No one doubts your frankness, champ. But if you're unwilling to commit to the rules of basic debate etiquette, then your energies would be better spent somewhere else.

--
Forever LOLphins
http://i.imgur.com/Uo04e.gif

INFERIOR RECESSIVE GENES

IT EVEN RAINED THE DAY I WAS BORRRRRRRRN

YOU WERE THE LIGHTNING IN THAT RAIN

THROW OFF THE SHACKLES OF FATE... AND FULFIL YOUR DESTINY

Hammy but engaged voice acting always trumps lifeless dull voice acting. I think MGS is pretty ridiculous, but at least it presents itself in a less-than-serious manner and their voice actors and actress actually bother to emote. This is coming from a guy who doesn't even like the MGS series.

By the way, art can be subjective, but storytelling isn't. There's elements required in storytelling to make it good storytelling and that's kinda important in a narrative. You can say Metroid Other M qualifies as art all you want, but the fact of the matter is that it's story was absolutely awful. It contained plotholes, contradictions, unresolved plot threads and a whole myriad of things that were completely and utterly pointless. That is, under no circumstances, acceptable storytelling. It is objectively bad in that sense, and you can't hide behind the "it's art" defense.

It's not "not that bad." It is. It's atrocious. And it deserves every level of criticism thrown at it. There's no alternate viewpoint to this, there's no "subjective opinion" to this, there's no hiding behind "its art" for this. It is bad storytelling.

And people can enjoy bad storytelling. More power to them if they do. But it's still bad and there's no real argument against it. And that's what the Other M Defense Force doesn't get.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

It contained plotholes, contradictions, unresolved plot threads

You're aware that these terms are interchangeable and unless you give us an example of one, I'm not obligated to believe you, right?

(Note: "Why didn't X just XYZ" is not a plothole.)

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Except they're not interchangeable. At all.

Plotholes are gaps in the flow of logic throughout the story's plot.

Contradictions are elements of the story that come in conflict with other elements of the story.

Unresolved plot threads are elements of the story that are simply less unresolved by the end of the game's narrative. Simply put, we're never given answers to a question posed earlier in the game.

An example of a plothole:
Adam's decision to shoot Samus. There's a serious gap in logic for why Adam decides to leave Samus vulnerable a Metroid, especially since Adam mentions moments later that he thought the Metroid could be immune to freezing. If Adam is right about his theory, the Metroid could have easily killed a defenseless Samus. That's a plot hole so big you drive a mack truck through it.

Contradiction:
Samus reaction to Ridley. Samus has fought Ridley several times and not once has she had a reaction like she did in Other M. This contradicts earlier established canon, and it doesn't fit into the plothole category because it's not a gap in the story's logic, it is a complete reversal of the story's logic.

Unresolved Plot thread:
The Deleter. Implied to be, but never explained, that it was James. This was left unresolved at the end of the game: was James really the Deleter? Who killed him? Why was he killed? All these questions were never answered by the story, and were cast aside once he was found dead. The reason why it isn't a gap in the story's logic is because once he was found dead, the storyline was simply dropped. This was considered an acceptable end to the plot point, even though it was left unresolved. And it sure as hell ain't a contradiction. That should be pretty obvious.

So no, you can't play the "they're all the same" card.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

yeah but ridley came back to life, he was supposed to be dead!

meanwhile no problem fighting phantoon again

another unresolved plot thread, or even hole
would be whatever the hell that scene was with Adam getting shot

--
FC 1849 0634 8041
Boring sig is boring

htaeD posted...
another unresolved plot thread, or even hole
would be whatever the hell that scene was with Adam getting shot

It'd fall under plothole.

Adam is attacked by unknown assailant > ??? > Adam is fine.

No explanation of what or who attacked him and how he survived the attack.

If it was an unresolved plot thread, it'd be more like:

Adam is attacked by unknown assailant > Adam is never heard from but never found dead > assailant is never identified

Thus leaving no resolution to whatever happened.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

yeah I guess
I mean in the Deleters case we can guess that MB killed him, but thats still a very unsatisfying way to conclude that plot

--
FC 1849 0634 8041
Boring sig is boring

Okay, anyone can use TV tropes, son, calm down.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Biolizard28 posted...
Okay, anyone can use TV tropes, son, calm down.

Funny, I didn't use TVtropes for this. This is basic story-telling stuff I remember from 8th grade, stuff I've know since I was 14 years old. Don't need to consult a website to remember that.

I do love the whole "calm down" thing, though. Like I'm so angry internet guy figuratively screaming across my computer. You made a stupid claim, I pointed out how stupid it was.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

htaeD posted...
yeah I guess
I mean in the Deleters case we can guess that MB killed him, but thats still a very unsatisfying way to conclude that plot

See, that's the problem with the Deleter plot: it's resolution is loosely implied at best. Which is funny for a game intent on beating you over the head with it's symbolism, they tried to be subtle for once. It still was awful, though.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

adam was actually THE DELETER all along, that's who tried to assassinate adam

obviously

Adam was the ACCIDENTAL DELETER.

As in, all his stupid decisions put his squad in unnecessary danger and got some of them killed.

And then he got himself killed.

So he was a successful assassin!

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

I like how Bio challenged you to provide examples, and then when you provide one of each type he runs away while throwing out his pathetic line about TV tropes.

--
From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

I like how Bio challenged you to provide examples, and then when you provide one of each type he runs away while throwing out his pathetic line about TV tropes.

Was about to post this same thing myself. Funny how this topic has turned into a sort of pedigree test for who's worth taking seriously on B8 and who isn't. Helpful for a newbie!

--
Forever LOLphins
http://i.imgur.com/Uo04e.gif

the fun part is actually after this topic purges, happens again, and then bio makes that exact challenge to someone again

seriously guys, don't bother arguing with bio

Alright, I gathered some data to hopefully douse the fires of the argument.

First off, some professional aggregate scores which will undoubtedly be shrugged off.
Gamerankings - 78.55%
Metacritic - 79

And now using GameFAQs users review section, I found the average review score (out of 10) to be a 6.7.
A little more than 10 points lower, but still not a horrible score.

In fact, I did a RottenTomatoes type look, and using 7/10 as the cutoff, found out how many users thought the game was Fresh or Rotten.
The result is that 63% of the reviews felt the game was Fresh, or deserved a 7 or higher.

Then I divided it up into the three sections to see if there was a difference among the three review categories: Detailed, Full, and Quick.

Raw Average Score
Detailed - 5.9
Full - 7.1
Quick - 7.4

RottenTomatoes Freshness (based on 7/10 being Fresh)
Detailed - 47%
Full - 77%
Quick - 72%

Notice the stark difference between Average review and Freshness meter in the Detailed category.

I encourage you to reach your own conclusions.

--
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png
SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0

From: redrocket | #233
I like how Bio challenged you to provide examples, and then when you provide one of each type he runs away while throwing out his pathetic line about TV tropes.

I simply find it hard to believe that on the subject of plot holes, he would just so happen to use the exact same zinger to describe Other M's situation that is used to open the article ON plot holes on every know it all's favorite resource for s*** they don't like in video games. I can't actually prove this is true, just that I think Rock is the type of person who would do such a thing. His resurrection of this whole Other M debate shows that he has zero regard for original thought, at the very least.

(I'm fully aware that responding at this point will only trigger responses of how I only show up when I'm called out, but I also can't ever stop you from using such faulty logic in the first place.)

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

no s*** this topic wasn't supposed to be original thought, it was supposed to be about a video that somebody else made

a video that is reusing video footage from another source, even

--
http://i49.tinypic.com/anio39.gif

yeah, anyone that is only arguing about other m and hasn't watched this LP is missing some great entertainment, I've watched most of it twice(8/9 parts when the 9th wasn't uploaded, watched the complete video since the 9th wasn't uploaded)

We could have just had a topic about a Retsupurae of Other M's theater mode. It would be one thing if someone else was going to (And believe me, someone else would) be a fire starter and bring the topic to this point, but Rock wouldn't even let us get past the topic title without "LOL THIS GAME SUX"

I say again, have Other M haters ever played a bad game before? And I'm not talking about people who just don't like the game, or even people who think the story is abominable. I'm talking about the people who think this is the worst game of all time and anyone who likes it for any reason is fundamentally wrong.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

well the whole point of retsupurae is to laugh at how s***ty a game/LP is in the first place so the game being bad would be implied in the first post anyway

Nobody in this topic called this the "worst game of all time" for the record, just really really bad. Whether a lot of other games are bad or not has zero bearing on whether or not this particular game is bad.

--
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8840/crashsig.jpg

I've played bad games and there are definitely worse out there, but it's usually a random game from a random developer, this was a very big budget game, more so than any of the better metroid games, and follows in the footsteps of some of the best games ever, you'd think one would have to actively try to do as badly as other m under those circumstances. at this rate I'm more hyped for the AM2R fan game than sakamoto making another metroid

*arrive*

*take pathetic cheapshot*

*leave*

Biolizard, ladies and gentlemen.

Although, I find it funny that someone who's calling me unoriginal is the same person who spent months being realo's lapdog spewing the good word of the Alpha/Beta/Omega crap. But whatever, don't really need to justify myself to you.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

*arrive*

*accuse someone of taking cheap shots*

*stoop to their level*

You're just full of surprises.

*psst*

That was sarcasm.

You're actually really predictable and as guilty as me when it comes to these things. You will never acknowledge that.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Pretty funny getting called predictable by the most predictable user on board 8.

See, the difference between you and me here is I actually know what I'm talking about when it comes to Other M and we've had extensive discussions over it, including in this topic. So no, I didn't arrive, take a shot at you and leave. I've been here from the beginning and long after you leave I'll still be here discussing Other M.

On the flip side, you waltz on in here in all your ignorant glory, knowing nothing about Other M and only thinking "watch me nail Rock good here" and post an incredibly dumb post. After I easily refute your claims, you switch to defense mode and decide to call someone a random flaw. In this case: predictable. I'd love to see how I'm predictable because it'd probably be just as weak as pretty much everything else you've said in this topic.

You're like a poor man's ulti. You come in and attempt to derail a thread because you've got to be the center of attention. Difference being ulti says something ridiculous to gain attention, whereas you just say dumb stuff and then immediately switch into defense mode so you can keep the focus on you for a while longer.

So I'm not going to allow this. Say whatever the f*** you want going forward, I'm not going to bother responding any further. This is about Other M, not biolizard. Go make the all-biolizard all the time topic where you can have all the bad posts in the world.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

lol that he thinks "I was only trolling you the whole time" is still a believable tactic

--
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8840/crashsig.jpg

ulti is now poised to derail a topic he hasn't even posted in

literally obsessed

Guys, we're done acknowledging Bio going forward.

I'm authorizing the use of the ignore function.

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

-awkward thumbs down-

GET IT, I'M REBELLIOUS YET COMPLETELY SUBSERVIENT AT THE SAME TIME