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Board 8 > And this is why Metacritic and review scores are bulls***.

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SlymDayspring
03/15/12 11:08:00 AM
#51:


this sucks for consumers....but hey, that's business. it isn't about the consumer, it is about profits and contracts and basically finding whatever way you can to **** over as many other people as possible to make yourself more money. stop acting like this is a new thing to you.

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JDTAY
03/15/12 11:09:00 AM
#52:


GameRankings > Metacritic anyway

*missing the point and loving it*

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redrocket
03/15/12 11:09:00 AM
#53:


DigitalIncision posted...
From: redrocket | #048
Any 'algorithm' you use would just be something that someone literally pulled straight out of their ass. This wouldn't be any better than metacritic and wouldn't help anything.
I don't mean a hard algorithm that we objectively put numbers into and pump out a score. I mean people who actually pay attention, gather feedback from users and even companies.

EDIT: The biggeest problem with Metacritic, to me, is the fact that there's no face there. There's nobody that can evaluate the process. They created a terrible way to do things years ago and it hasn't changed even the slightest bit.


You would be replacing a crappy objective method of aggregating scores with a crappy subjective one. The very concept of aggregate review scores is inherently flawed.

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DigitalIncision
03/15/12 11:10:00 AM
#54:


From: redrocket | #053
You would be replacing a crappy objective method of aggregating scores with a crappy subjective one. The very concept of aggregate review scores is inherently flawed.


See but the point isn't necessarily the aggregate "final" score, but actual comparisons between reviews and things of that nature.

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Emporer_Kazbar
03/15/12 11:12:00 AM
#55:


lol at trying to make Bethesda out as a bad guy here.

If Obsidian didn't like, or couldn't hold up their end of the terms of the contract, they shouldn't have signed it.

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KJH
03/15/12 11:14:00 AM
#56:


Well for one, a 4/5 is different from 8/10 because the implication is the only step up for the 4/5 is literally perfection.

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pjbasis
03/15/12 12:05:00 PM
#57:


From: redrocket | #050
Are you being intentionally dense? Or are you playing the "internet devil's advocate"?


Are you being intentionally evasive or are you just trying to annoy me?

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YetAnothrShadow
03/15/12 12:24:00 PM
#58:


From: CalvinbalI | #032
well now that Giant Bomb has been bought by Gamespot, it looks like we won't have to worry about any of those pesky, low 4/5 reviews anymore! 5/5's for everyone! (...that purchases $50,000 of advertising space on Giant Bomb!)


wtf really.

This is horrible. Good bye Giant Bomb.

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foolm0ron
03/15/12 12:25:00 PM
#59:


From: pjbasis | #047
They're not linear? What are they then? How can you compare what a 5 is compared to a 4 or a 3?


Exactly. The difference between these numbers is entirely arbitrary... so giving a bonus based on it is just a cruel dangling of the carrot.

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foolm0ron
03/15/12 12:26:00 PM
#60:


From: DigitalIncision | #054
See but the point isn't necessarily the aggregate "final" score, but actual comparisons between reviews and things of that nature.


Unless there is a "final score" no one would care or read the site because 99% of people only care about the number

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redrocket
03/15/12 12:27:00 PM
#61:


pjbasis posted...
From: redrocket | #050
Are you being intentionally dense? Or are you playing the "internet devil's advocate"?
Are you being intentionally evasive or are you just trying to annoy me?

Are you telling me that you honestly do not understand how a five point scale is not linear? If that is the case then we are done here.

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ZFS
03/15/12 12:29:00 PM
#62:


Many publishers do this, where they give bonuses based on hitting a certain review score. Certainly not the first time it's happened.

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pjbasis
03/15/12 12:30:00 PM
#63:


From: foolm0ron | #059
Exactly. The difference between these numbers is entirely arbitrary... so giving a bonus based on it is just a cruel dangling of the carrot.


I'm going to disagree, at least on the first point.

They may be arbitrary but they are supposed to be relative, and the purpose, at least theoretically, is to facilitate comparison with not only other people's opinions but with other things you review as well.

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KlownBoat
03/15/12 12:34:00 PM
#64:


I think Metacritic is great and I'm very happy that the website exists. Video game reviews are probably the closest thing we have to an objective evaluation of a completely subjective experience (take a look at reviews of your 5 favourite albums and compare them to your 5 favourite games). I just think it's terrible that companies are putting people's jobs on the line because of these scores.

The only people to blame here are Bethesda. You think Michael Bay is never going to get another movie because the Transformers movies reviewed terribly? Or that Adam Sandler will never act again because his last movies were terrible? No, because movie companies only care if something is successful (for better or worse). It's crazy to think that people who developed a successful game that people loved are going to lose their jobs over a number that really doesn't have that big of an impact on sales.

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neonreaper
03/15/12 12:40:00 PM
#65:


pjbasis posted...
From: foolm0ron | #043
They linearly convert 5-point and 10-point and letter-grade rating systems into the 100-point scale, when usually the scales aren't linear like that at all.
They're not linear? What are they then? How can you compare what a 5 is compared to a 4 or a 3?

And if all these things can't be compared to each other, why are we using numbers at all?
I agree that context is the most important thing, but if they weren't trying to make a universal statement with numbers, they wouldn't do it at all.

Aggregates just take raw data and spit out raw data. I agree that it shouldn't be taken as anything too important, but a pattern does become available.

Anyways, I think most of the gripes I hear are just misdirected complaints about the actual conclusions people draw.

The five point scale compacts the useless dredges of the 10 point scale (ie the bottom) while trying to maintain a more significant separation among the top parts of the review. What's the difference between a 2/10 game and a 4/10 game, really.

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Paratroopa1
03/15/12 12:45:00 PM
#66:


You know, if you think about it, on a 1-5 scale, a 4 is actually equivalent to a 75/100, not 80/100.
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YetAnothrShadow
03/15/12 12:49:00 PM
#67:


[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
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Grand Kirby
03/15/12 12:49:00 PM
#68:


From: KlownBoat | #064
The only people to blame here are Bethesda. You think Michael Bay is never going to get another movie because the Transformers movies reviewed terribly? Or that Adam Sandler will never act again because his last movies were terrible? No, because movie companies only care if something is successful (for better or worse). It's crazy to think that people who developed a successful game that people loved are going to lose their jobs over a number that really doesn't have that big of an impact on sales.


There's no reported correlation between the layoffs and the review scores. No one's being fired just because the review scores are low. There's no official reason yet. There are too many people forgetting that only the BONUSES were tied to the review scores. Would that money have made a difference whether people got to keep their job? I don't know for sure, but I kind of doubt it. There's probably a whole other mess of reasons.

And it's not like movie studios don't operate the same way. Again, we're talking about bonuses here. You're making a metaphor that doesn't make any sense since this isn't about people being fired over review scores.

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neonreaper
03/15/12 12:52:00 PM
#69:


Paratroopa1 posted...
You know, if you think about it, on a 1-5 scale, a 4 is actually equivalent to a 75/100, not 80/100.

dude..

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KlownBoat
03/15/12 12:54:00 PM
#70:


From: Grand Kirby | #068
There's no reported correlation between the layoffs and the review scores. No one's being fired just because the review scores are low. There's no official reason yet. There are too many people forgetting that only the BONUSES were tied to the review scores. Would that money have made a difference whether people got to keep their job? I don't know for sure, but I kind of doubt it. There's probably a whole other mess of reasons.


Ahh, totally read that wrong. I have no problem with any of this then.

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special_sauce
03/15/12 1:04:00 PM
#71:


From: SlymDayspring | #051
this sucks for consumers....but hey, that's business. it isn't about the consumer, it is about profits and contracts and basically finding whatever way you can to **** over as many other people as possible to make yourself more money. stop acting like this is a new thing to you.


Sucks for consumers too that Obsidian made a horrible glitchy mess of a game. Why bother making another game that some people (ie: me) aren't going to want to give a shot after the lackluster reviews (lackluster quality) of New Vegas?

From: Paratroopa1 | #066
You know, if you think about it, on a 1-5 scale, a 4 is actually equivalent to a 75/100, not 80/100.


Mind = blown.

From: Grand Kirby | #068
There's no reported correlation between the layoffs and the review scores. No one's being fired just because the review scores are low. There's no official reason yet. There are too many people forgetting that only the BONUSES were tied to the review scores. Would that money have made a difference whether people got to keep their job? I don't know for sure, but I kind of doubt it. There's probably a whole other mess of reasons.


Thank you.

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HeroicGammaRay
03/15/12 1:05:00 PM
#72:


don't see anything wrong with this. i mean, professional reviewers are by and large tasteless, but if they think it's a good business decision/correlates with sales enough...

but yes metacritic's aggregation methods are lol. they need some kind of mean/standard deviation analysis.
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Gatarix
03/15/12 1:13:00 PM
#73:


How about that literally anyone can make a blog, start reviewing games, and get added to metacritic.

start a gaming review blog hgr


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neonreaper
03/15/12 1:14:00 PM
#74:


uniracers 10/10 everything else 1

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HaRRicH
03/15/12 1:44:00 PM
#75:


DigitalIncision posted...
I've got some extra hosting and love startin up some new sites. Anybody here interested in starting a metacritic-esque site and creating a panel that decides, based on some sort of algorithm, to weigh sites and their reviews? as in, as someone noted, an eight from eurogamer being different than an eight from IGN? This is definitely something that's a possibility, and not something that I want to take on by myself.

You could probably do this by gauging the average review-score for each source and weighing that appropriately against each game they review (probably best to do this based off of the source's past year or two rather than their entire history). That would be a good way to out-Metacritic Metacritic...but if you have issue with how Metacritic simply compiles scores and reports the answer, this alternative is no solution.

Metacritic's fine for what it does (though I prefer GameRankings): let me see what the general consensus is and link me to the reviews from the sources I trust most. It absolutely shouldn't have the final say on a consumer's mind, but the real issue's how we often rely on numbers instead of details anyway.

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