Board 8 > Leonhart plays lots of Final Fantasy games! [spoilers] [nostalgia] [squall]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Part 5!

Games beated:

1. FFVI
2. FFVII
3. FFT

Games not beated:

1. FFVIII
2. FFIX
3. FFX
4. FFX-2
5. FFXII
6. FFXIII
7. FFXIII-2?

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SuperNiceDog forced me to retreat in shame from the Guru:
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab48/Leonhart4/Squall.jpg

Thanky' kindly.

--
James - Board 8's Resident Warm And Safe, Slipper-Wearing User
& The Cream of Porcupine Tree Fanboyism

Tag

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http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9413/cutepuppy16.png - Number of people that D'awwed: 63

Can't wait for FFXIII-2?

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I do because I can.....and because I'm bored.

Yay, it's that game I like to mock up next

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

I have a feeling the FFVIII playthrough may take up multiple topics with all the debating that's sure to ensue!

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This is what SuperNiceDog did to me in the Guru: http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gif
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif

Debating like

"Why Squall or Laguna is the best character?"
"Which Disc is the best?"
"Which FF is the second best after VIII?"
"Did you love, or just like, the ending?

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http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png
SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0

I have a feeling this might be one of my favorite topics, because FFVIII is awesome.

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I'm a cat person, but I can still appreciate a SuperNiceDog.

I certainly hope you plan on mastering Triple Triad, getting every card as soon as possible and whatnot.

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"First time I got punched in the face, I was like "oh no", then I was like "this is a story"."

I usually play Triple Triad early and often, yes.

--
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"There ain't no gettin' off of this SuperNiceDog we on!"

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From: pjbasis | #007
Debating like

"Why Squall or Laguna is the best character?"
"Which Disc is the best?"
"Which FF is the second best after VIII?"
"Did you love, or just like, the ending?

You forgot "did Squall die at the end of disc 1"

The most important one

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

"Why Squall or Laguna is the best character?"

Laguna obviously superior.

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SuperNiceDog owned me in the Guru. Or do I have to stop using the word "owned" in order to not offend black people due to slavery?

I will end you, Lopen.

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SuperNiceDog http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2369/mythbattlers.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Sensui22/1248835958206.png

Umineko Episode 8 beated, good stuff.

Picked up 999 yesterday, pretty good so far.

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Suddenly, everyone turned into SuperNiceDog
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Tag for more Leon goodness. Even if this is the FF8 thread...!

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Hey now! This is guaranteed to be one of the best ones...!

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Suddenly, everyone turned into SuperNiceDog
http://i.imgur.com/CbfFb.jpg

Personally, i can't wait until you get to FFIX and especially FFX. At least I'll know exactly what you are talking about there. I didn't remember half the stuff in FFT since I haven't played it in years, and my disc 3 of FFVIII is scratched, so I can't play past "Rinoa in space" (but why would you want to play discs 3 and 4 of FFVIII anyway, m i rite). I remember discs 1 and 2 well enough though, so this could be interesting.

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SuperNiceDog owned me in the Guru. Or do I have to stop using the word "owned" in order to not offend black people due to slavery?

From: Ultimaphazon | #018
(but why would you want to play discs 3 and 4 of FFVIII anyway, m i rite)

One of the best endings in the series, for one thing!

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SuperNiceDog's Guru victory dance:
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From: Ultimaphazon | #018
so I can't play past "Rinoa in space"

I read about a ROM that stops right at that moment.

HMM.

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http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4418/dsc02035h.jpg
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'suspicious activity' indeed

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SuperNiceDog also has the right of way.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7760/222bj.jpg

From: LeonhartFour | #019
One of the best endings in the series, for one thing!

Being one of the best endings in this series is not a very daunting task!

And despite the bar being set so low, FF8 still can't manage it!

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Lopen posted...
From: pjbasis | #007
Debating like

"Why Squall or Laguna is the best character?"
"Which Disc is the best?"
"Which FF is the second best after VIII?"
"Did you love, or just like, the ending?
You forgot "did Squall die at the end of disc 1"

The most important one

Ah, yes, the old "was everything after disc 1 just the delusions of a dying man" question. I've seen the arguments for it, and they're quite compelling.

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I'm a cat person, but I can still appreciate a SuperNiceDog.

Well, it's only second to FFX!

But yeah, it's not a high standard, I admit. FFX's the only really, really good one. I like FFVIII's though.

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Suddenly, everyone turned into SuperNiceDog
http://i.imgur.com/CbfFb.jpg

From: TsunamiXXVIII | #023
Ah, yes, the old "was everything after disc 1 just the delusions of a dying man" question. I've seen the arguments for it, and they're quite compelling.

No, they're incredibly dumb, and the person who originated the theory concedes that they're incredibly dumb and require huge logical leaps, and the whole thing was never really meant to be taken seriously.

But hey, there are worse fan theories out there!

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SuperNiceDog is better than a bunny slug: http://img.imgcake.com/nio/26leonpngat.png
http://img.imgcake.com/nio/daigohadoupnguj.png

I mean, I enjoyed "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" as much as the next guy, but still.

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"I couldn't stand a day without a past or SuperNiceDog. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

From: LeonhartFour | #024
Well, it's only second to FFX!

But yeah, it's not a high standard, I admit. FFX's the only really, really good one. I like FFVIII's though.

FFT > FFX >...well I'm pretty much already not caring any more, I guess IX next maybe. Not a fan at all of VIII's ending.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Eh, FFT's ending is all right. The post-credits scene with Delita is good, but the rest of the ending is pretty standard fare.

I don't get the love for FFIX's ending (I don't really get a lot of the love Board 8 heaps upon FFIX in general, but that's a story for another time. Not that I dislike the game, but to me, it's clearly below VII, VIII, and X). It has one really cool scene at the end, but the whole "One year later, WHERE ARE THEY NOW?" thing does nothing for me.

Well, I guess Zidane and Kuja having a Matrix moment was pretty cool, too.

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"So cold. I am always by your side."
"There ain't no gettin' off of this SuperNiceDog we on!"

One really good scene > a lot of mediocrity

Especially in video game endings, which are usually bloated and overly long and entirely ****ing pointless (HI THERE FINAL FANTASY EIGHT). A single great scene basically makes me zone out the rest of the ending and remember it. It's why I love the ending of MGS3 so much (although by bloated and long ending standards it's still pretty decent even in the parts that drag), and it's also why I'd put the FFXII ending pretty high because even though it isn't overly great, it's fairly brief and thus doesn't manage to make me annoyed at it.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

From: Panthera | #029
One really good scene > a lot of mediocrity

Well yeah

But a lot of good > one really good scene

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"Why must we always choose between certain death and SuperNiceDog?"
"I'm in an epic battle to the death, FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF!"

There isn't a single ending in the whole series that gets to go beyond "one good/great moment and a bunch of stuff that's decent at best" <_<

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

FFX is pretty great all around.

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SuperNiceDog is better than a bunny slug: http://img.imgcake.com/nio/26leonpngat.png
http://img.imgcake.com/nio/daigohadoupnguj.png

*spoilers for FFX, FFT.. yeah, I know there's a warning in the topic*

I really like FFX's ending, but it is a bit drawn out. This is probably partially due to the whole battles against the possessed aeons and Yu Yevon basically being part of the ending. I'd still put it above FFT's since FFT is pretty much just one great scene while FFX has a lot of good stuff. And... yeah, otherwise, kinda failing to care, pretty much agree with Panthera. I actually think FF8's is a reasonable candidate for next best and I don't even like FF8 much... same with FF9! Oh, and I like FF13's a fair deal but it's tarnished by how much of a mess the scenes between the final battle stages are. Still, plenty of time for discussing individual endings when we get to those games!

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Can't wait for IX and X. Two best FFs right there!

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Who knew the Rivalry Rumble would be so predictable? SuperNiceDog, that's who.

From: NeoElfboy | #033
Oh, and I like FF13's a fair deal but it's tarnished by how much of a mess the scenes between the final battle stages are

Well now we're seeing a bit of an issue here in that I wouldn't consider that part of the ending! In general, "the ending" to me is everything after the player stops controlling things (minus oddities like I Wanna Be The Guy and it's final apple at the end of the credits), so stuff like the FFXIII events between each of the final three boss fights don't count in my mind, and it also means the pre-battle Jecht/Tidus stuff in FFX doesn't count, which certainly lowers that game a fair bit since that part is very good.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

So I'm still going through FFT and finally got to Golgorand. Obviously, this one gave me issues everytime I've played through it, but I was well on my way to beating it the first time around. Except I'm a ****ing moron, and moved Ramza to a place where Yeager (knight) couldn't use a phoenix down on Dennis (summoner), so he crystallized. Literally was down to a critical hp archer, and Gafgarion. Ugh was super pissed.

Tried it a second time and didn't set it up right, so I was getting beat pretty good. Will try it again and win today. Can't believe I screwed myself that first time.... :(

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Not changing this sig until the Winnipeg Blue Bombers win the grey cup. Started Aug. 16/04

Panthera: Right, I agree with that. However, preceding scenes do set up a context for the ending and can have an indirect effect on it. For instance, if we cut the buildup to FFX's ending from the game (e.g. the scene where Tidus touches the wall of fayth in Zanarkand) obviously the ending gets weaker even if the ending itself is the exact same scenes. That's what I was referring to here.

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Yeah, being thisclose to winning is a terrible feeling indeed.

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From: Kotetsu534 | Posted: 12/25/2011 5:57:12 AM | #034
Can't wait for IX and X. Two best FFs right there!

I concur.

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I do because I can.....and because I'm bored.

Panthera posted...
Well now we're seeing a bit of an issue here in that I wouldn't consider that part of the ending! In general, "the ending" to me is everything after the player stops controlling things (minus oddities like I Wanna Be The Guy and it's final apple at the end of the credits), so stuff like the FFXIII events between each of the final three boss fights don't count in my mind, and it also means the pre-battle Jecht/Tidus stuff in FFX doesn't count, which certainly lowers that game a fair bit since that part is very good.

I consider "the ending" to be the point of no return vis-a-vis going back to do other things. So, pretty much starting with the cutscene immediately preceding the final boss in most cases, or the final boss's first form if you're unable to go back in between phases.

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I'm a cat person, but I can still appreciate a SuperNiceDog.

Aww yeah Golgorand defeated. Hit Gafgarion with a Ramuh from Dennis then a thrown lightning ball from my ninja, so he teleported out. The rest wasn't bad. Onto Lionel...

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Not changing this sig until the Winnipeg Blue Bombers win the grey cup. Started Aug. 16/04

Before we get started on our FFVIII playthrough in the next couple of days, let's just go ahead and "clear the air," shall we? Since I'm sure this will probably be the most debated game of this series. Well, maybe XIII, since I actually like the game.

I'm going to keep tabs on the "Signs that Squall actually likes Rinoa before we get to Disc 3." Some people will say I'm reading too much into things, but to me, there are enough of them that they can't all be pure coincidence. You can rule that out if you want to, but that's just my take on it. Most of those signs are deliberate.

But then you have these people who will say, "Yeah, but a lot of those are choices you make! You can pick all of the bad choices, and then what happens on Disc 3 makes no sense!" To that, I must also respectfully disagree, and I'll explain why. For most of those choices, you are picking what Squall says/does outwardly, not what he thinks inwardly. Repeatedly throughout FFVIII, we see that what Squall says or does on the outside is not indicative of what he thinks or feels on the inside.

Let me explain what I mean. For Squall, his goal is complete independence. Anyone who tries to get in the way of that, he reacts against it. Probably the best non-Rinoa example is Quistis trying to talk to Squall in the Secret Place. That's probably one of Squall's biggest "jerk" moments in the game, but is it really as simple as "Squall's being a jerk and he doesn't like Quistis?" I don't think so. Throughout the rest of the game, Squall shows a great deal of respect for Quistis as a SeeD. He selects her to lead the Gateway Team at the end of Disc 1, for instance.

So what was the issue? Well, the obvious issue is that Quistis is trying to intrude on Squall's independence and make her way into his personal life. As a result, Squall resists and does everything he can to push her away, and he succeeds. Squall and Quistis's relationship is pretty civil from that point forward because Quistis really makes no more attempts to get into his world. The difference between Quistis and Rinoa is that when Squall puts up resistance, Quistis relents and Rinoa pushes back.

In reality, Squall's not really a jerk who hates life and hates everyone around him (which is a common misconception and what causes a lot of people to label him as "emo" or whatever you want to call it). He's fine with being perceived that way, as he divulges on Disc 3, because it keeps people away from him. The main reason he avoids relationships isn't because he hates people. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It's because he realizes how easily he gets attached to people and how close he can get to them that makes him want to avoid those relationships, because one day, those relationships end, and all you're left with is pain and emptiness.

So now you may be asking, "What does this have to do with picking all of the bad options for Rinoa again?" Simply put, Squall being a jerk to Rinoa on the outside doesn't mean he doesn't like her and doesn't care about her. In fact, it may convey just the opposite. He's afraid of getting close to her and may in fact be aware of his budding feelings for her and her feelings for him, so he tries very hard to push her away before those feelings can bear fruit. Of course, once Rinoa's life seems to be in potential danger, Squall can't run from those feelings anymore and everything rushes to the surface. He can't keep them inside anymore as he faces the possibility of losing her, and so we have Disc 3.

That being said, this is all just my personal take on the matter. You are free to disagree. I just think "But you can pick bad options and it makes the story make no sense!" is a little oversimplified and potentially offbase.

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SuperNiceDog followed this simple flowchart to win the Guru!
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The main reason he avoids relationships isn't because he hates people. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It's because he realizes how easily he gets attached to people and how close he can get to them that makes him want to avoid those relationships, because one day, those relationships end, and all you're left with is pain and emptiness.


You realize this is still textbook "emo", right? He does get better, but still!

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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

Eh, I've never really thought of that as "emo." Squall's putting up that sort of front, but that's not who he really is. He's actually a pretty nice guy who cares about his companions and he feels a sense of responsibility for them as their leader, but he wants to keep them at an arm's length. Squall doesn't necessarily want to be alone, but in his mind, it's better than the alternative.

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From: LeonhartFour | Posted: 12/26/2011 10:24:30 PM | #042
*Squall's Defense*

I figured you would try to defend his 'love' for Rinoa.

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I do because I can.....and because I'm bored.

Hey, I'm not trying to argue Squall/Rinoa is an all-time video game couple. I certainly don't think that.

I do think there's an underlying subtlety to their relationship that other video game couples lack. It's not an overt romantic relationship for most of the game, but that's one of the things I like about it.

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No objections to SuperNiceDog as our Guru champ!
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Also, I beat 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors. I enjoyed the characters and the story for the most part, but the underlying premise is pretty "meh" though.

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Also on the "bad options" argument, I'd say that while there's obviously the choice there for a reason, there's still probably a 'canon' right option and wrong option in the developers' minds. Given the way the story develops, to assume that being mean to her is what you're meant to do is basically saying the developers gave you the option of being a jerk and wilfully set up their canon to not make sense. Seems farfetched to me.

Still not a fan of the romance for a number of reasons though, but we can get to that when we get to it!

--
James - Board 8's Resident Warm And Safe, Slipper-Wearing User
& The Cream of Porcupine Tree Fanboyism

Well, I understand the sentiment of people who say "Giving you options is pointless if it doesn't actually affect anything." I enjoy different options just for the sake of seeing the varying reactions, but I do understand people who want to see their options actually have a lasting impact on the story. I just don't think picking "bad options" necessarily sabotages the story, but not everyone will see that my way.

I do agree that there's likely a "canon" choice for some of these major decisions, but unless Square actually tells us what they are, it's mostly speculation.

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"So cold. I am always by your side."
"There ain't no gettin' off of this SuperNiceDog we on!"

Generally speaking I find text options get in the way of narratives, and I especially don't care for the somewhat dating sim-ish vibes I got from FF8 at times.

That said Squall is great and I don't think his relationship with Rinoa is a problem. (Rinoa herself, on the other hand...)

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