Board 8 > Leonhart plays lots of Final Fantasy games! [spoilers] [nostalgia] [squall]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Renegade Shepard isn't necessarily "evil," per se, but he operates outside the law and by his own code of justice, I guess would be the best way to say it.

Paragon Shepard would be Lawful Good and Renegade Shepard would be Chaotic Good. Middle option is just Neutral Good, I guess.

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Ah man, from the way you guys describe it, I would want a mixture of both.

I like disregarding rules while still keeping the killing down to a minimum.
But I hear these games punish that sort of thinking by making you choose on or the other.

Like inFamous. I didn't really mind in that game though because you weren't really meant to be Cole.

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Yeah, inFamous's Good/Evil stuff was poorly implemented, at least in the first game.

Not sure about the second. Haven't played it.

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The Good/Evil stuff is better in the second one.

Wait a minute, this here is supposed to be an FFVIII playthrough topic!

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I do because I can.....and because I'm bored.

We're getting to it!

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Well you can get a mix of both. I was just clarifying. And yeah it is Chaotic Good that's what I was getting at.

Well actually I might go as far as to tack renegade Shepard at Chaotic Neutral. Not evil, though.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

Okay, I think I'm finally done with ME2. We should be able to start our playthrough of FFVIII (subtitled "Panthera is a grouchy curmudgeon who will disagree with everything I say") very soon!

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From: Lopen | #206
Well actually I might go as far as to tack renegade Shepard at Chaotic Neutral. Not evil, though.

Chaotic Neutral is exactly what came to mind the moment I saw you guys using D&D alignments to describe Shepard. You can create a coherent character by mixing Paragon and Renegade (and ME2 will reward you by making you not be able to do cool things) but if you go all-Renegade you get someone whose entire life's mission seems to be to save the galaxy either because he knows it will convince people to let him get away with being a dick more, or because he just likes being a dick and the Reapers haven't had anyone really piss them off in a few million years so they're his juiciest target. ME2 does give you more frequent options that veer into pure evil IIRC, although at least one is also mind numbingly stupid to the point that no one would ever pick it except to see where the game goes with it <_<

From: LeonhartFour | #207
Okay, I think I'm finally done with ME2. We should be able to start our playthrough of FFVIII (subtitled "Panthera is a grouchy curmudgeon who will disagree with everything I say") very soon!

Hey, I'll agree with you if you say the card game is good!

Yay disagreeing with being told I'll disagree

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

From: Panthera | #208
You can create a coherent character by mixing Paragon and Renegade (and ME2 will reward you by making you not be able to do cool things)

Just finished a playthrough where I tried to be as neutral as possible, and I can attest to this!

I think more people die if you go neutral than if you go pure Paragon or pure Renegade because those highlighted options often prevent a lot of people from getting killed!

Well, maybe not pure Renegade if you use the trigger commands because a lot of those involve killing people.

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"Stay with me until the end. Please."
"Not until the end. Always."

That often doesn't make much sense, since it's hardly Renegade to kill people who are trying to kill you. But I won't really complain because it gives us awesome stuff like "How about goodbye" and that thing on Mordin's loyalty mission.

Basically every time a Renegade interrupt kills someone, it's someone you were going to kill in combat anyway. Or someone providing tech support for the guys you're fighting.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Well, some Renegade trigger options do end up causing Shepard to kill people he otherwise wouldn't kill.

The "How about goodbye" thing is one of them. If you don't use the trigger, Shepard just lets the guy go.

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Although there is that one time on Samara's recruitment mission where the Renegade interrupt thing actually works in your favor in killing someone who would otherwise get away with murder, even though you don't realize it at the time you use it.

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Panthera posted...
You can create a coherent character by mixing Paragon and Renegade (and ME2 will reward you by making you not be able to do cool things)

This is probably the biggest flaw in the ME series.

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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

Well I don't know about ME2 but in ME1 it doesn't penalize you much unless you really mix them. As long as you're clearly leaning one side you should be good. Like I'd say I did Paragon stuff about 1/4 the time or so and that was enough for me to have renegade at the highest level IIRC.

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As long as you're clearly leaning one way or the other, you should be fine. Trying to go middle of the road is what will get you into trouble most of the time.

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*shrug* I kinda doubt you can create a coherent character by going exactly down the middle though-- like I think that character only exists by looking at the paragon and renegade bars and intentionally picking the one you're lower in. Too much of the stuff that falls under one side is similar to the other stuff on that side. Like there are definitely situations where you might want to diplomacy one guy and punch another guy out but I have trouble seeing a way to do it balanced-like without gaming the system to do it. Which is kinda why I assumed Panthera was talking about a mix that wasn't exactly middle of the road but still has some of each.

Like when you tried to play that character in that neutral playthrough, were you being neutral for the sake of it or did you have a moral code for your character that managed to end up being neutral?

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

From: Lopen | #216
Which is kinda why I assumed Panthera was talking about a mix that wasn't exactly middle of the road but still has some of each.

Yeah, a reasonable amount of each but not neutral for the sake of neutrality. ME2 will punish you with some pretty damn important choices requiring very hefty focus on either side though, so balance is out of the question there, especially for Renegade players since not being a complete jackass to your own teammates is already putting you in the danger zone, you can't afford much more.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

I did a straight Paragon, straight Renegade, and straight neutral.

Mostly did the neutral thing for the sake of seeing the dialogue.

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Ugh **** you Wiegraf/Velius.

Rubber shoes don't block his lightning stab, so I turn Ramza into a monk, play some cat and mouse with Wiegraf (and accumulating a few times), and eventually take him out.

Then Velius. Both Ramza and Indy the ninja rush up and land about 400 combined damage on him. But I realize too late that I blocked Velius from rushing down the ramp, so he retreats and starts casting Cyclops. So I rendered my other party members useless, and Clops kills Ramza and Indy. Then he comes closer and starts casting again. Agrias hits him with a lightning stab (but silence didn't happen), Yeager hit him with a spear, and Dennis started casting, but those damn Ultima Demons and their dark holy.

Back to try it in a little bit again...

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Not changing this sig until the Winnipeg Blue Bombers win the grey cup. Started Aug. 16/04

Chameleon Robe is what tricks the AI into not using Lightning Stab, not Rubber Shoes. Hooray bizarre anti-Wiegraf tactics. Also, you may not even want the silence on your own Lightning Stabs to trigger - I always avoid using it on my own playthroughs simply because I find being able to get mid-charge shots on a Clops spamming Velius is a favourable trade to having him get into the habit of running away while taking dudes out with Seal every turn, especially since you can manipulate his AI into rushing forward to summon sometimes. Up to you obviously but it's worth being aware of what your options are.

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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

Oh yeah, I forgot about Seal, I thought he would just melee attack. But yeah, that was the initial plan, until I cut off his advance with Ramza and Indy, so he retreated. This made my other characters' first turns useless and screwed me. Just a dumb move on my part, but UGH stupid Wiegraf. The good thing is that, as a monk, I have chakra which restores 80 hp (lightning stab hits for 70), so I can charge up and still heal myself when I'm outta his range for a turn. Then punch him a couple times and get to Velius. But thanks for that reminder!

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Not changing this sig until the Winnipeg Blue Bombers win the grey cup. Started Aug. 16/04

Oh no! This has become a Mass Effect Topic!

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I bring order and chaos, I am life and death, creator and destroyer, just like the rest of humanity.

Okay, we're going to kick this into gear shortly.

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"Hold on a minute! That testimony stinks!"
"Witness! You can't just say 'Hello' and expect us to get anywhere! I want you to testify!"

So we should expect the playthrough to start sometime in February?

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

I'm trying to figure out what I want to do about XIII-2 when it comes out. Should I just save it for when all this is over or interrupt my playthroughs for a XIII-2 playthrough?

Also, would anyone be interested in me doing a XIII-2 playthrough in this topic, or would people rather I make a separate topic so you don't have to worry about spoilers?

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You know, I've always liked the little opening credits thing that plays if you don't press start at the very beginning to get to the "New Game/Continue" screen. "Overture" is a really cool song. I like the way it gradually builds, adding more instruments and stuff like that. The black and white pictures of the characters are really cool, too. It took me a long time to realize that the Quistis picture was actually a picture of her and not Seifer though! Not sure how I got so confused about that! Laguna's picture makes him look like Vincent Valentine, too.

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From: LeonhartFour | #225
Also, would anyone be interested in me doing a XIII-2 playthrough in this topic, or would people rather I make a separate topic so you don't have to worry about spoilers?

The latter, definitely

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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

I'm sure SOMEONE (not naming names) is going to say something about how overrated FFVIII's opening FMV is, but I still love it. I remember being floored the first time I saw it. Literally watched it twice before I ever started the game. I absolutely love FFVIII's presentation. It's fantastic. Honestly, I'm one of those guys who loves style (even at the expense of substance), and FFVIII's style resonates with me and adds to the game's atmosphere. I think it's kind of cool that they sort of point to the ending of the game even in the opening FMV with Rinoa standing in the flower field with the glowing feather.

I love the transitional effects for the FMV here, too, like the flower floating up into the sky and then Squall's gunblade plummeting out of the sky in its place. Cool effect of having Edea appear in the background when the lightning strikes, too. Love the fight between Squall and Seifer, especially with "Liberi Fatali" playing in the background. Epic stuff there, even if it does get a bit anticlimactic at the end with Seifer playing dirty.

And for those who say Squall is such a pansy for having to go to the infirmary after the fight when Seifer didn't, keep in mind one key difference: When Seifer cut Squall, he pulled the trigger. Squall did not pull the trigger when he retaliated. So it's pretty understandable that Squall would have to go to the infirmary when Seifer's gunblade exploded in his face. I think it says a lot about Squall's attitude toward Seifer in not pulling the trigger when he fought back. While Seifer's big thing is just trying to rile Squall up, he never fully strikes back in kind. He could've done a lot more damage than he did, but he held back. Squall's not going to let Seifer just bully him and push him around without fighting back, but he does have a certain amount of respect for Seifer as a fighter and even as a person, I think. Squall also likes to play it by the book, so he's not going to resort to doing anything he would consider "dirty." Squall and Seifer are excellent foils, so I like looking at the differences in how they respond to each other and how they react differently to similar situations. Good stuff.

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Also, I think it's funny how the game kept in those little pauses in dialogue where the game would normally let you name your characters for the characters they decided not to let you name in the English version. Your instructor is...

...Quistis!

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FFVIII's opening FMV is great. It actually makes the story of FFVIII look exciting and interesting.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Indeed, it definitely gets you hyped for the greatness that is to follow!

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It continues the bold trend of PSX FFs starting strong and then going downhill from there! Even FFT fell victim to it eventually. Although in fairness I feel like very few games actually manage to have their endings/final battles/general "endgame sequences" be the best (or at least one of the best) part(s).

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Nah, they were all pretty good about staying strong throughout.

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I gotta say, the early part of FFVIII is easily my least favorite part of the game. Until the end of the SeeD Exam, it's pretty boring. Part of that is probably a side effect of having played the game so much and the fact that you spend so much time in Balamb Garden over the course of the game ("Balamb Garden" is a fine song until you've had to listen to it for hours' worth of playtime, and then you start to get a little tired of it). I do enjoy the banter of the various NPCs around Garden though. They have some neat stuff to say, and I like that they made an effort to make groups of NPCs "converse" with each other. I also enjoy the part in the Cafeteria at the very beginning where Zell runs in to get hot dogs, only to find out that they're sold out, and then Seifer, Fujin, and Raijin decide to chase him down for speeding. Fujin giving Raijin the first of many shin kicks is great as well.

I like the little exchange at the beginning between Squall and Quistis where Quistis makes fun of Squall for being able to predict what he'll say. His "I'm more complex than you think" is the truth, but he's not willing to reveal that complexity. The course of the game reveals that Quistis doesn't understand him as much as she thinks she does, and I kinda respect Squall for being willing to be misunderstood. I have a hard time with that. If someone misinterprets something I'm saying, I have a hard time not trying to correct them, but he's willing to let it go. Props for that.

The little "tour" Squall gives Selphie at the beginning is kinda neat, too. I like the part where Selphie tries to recruit Squall to be on the Garden Festival Committee, and Squall's like, "Let's just continue" without skipping a beat. I like reading some of the stuff at the student terminal, too. I knew this Squall fansite whose layout was based on that thing, but I think it's shut down now. I tried to find it not too long ago but to no avail. Oh well. Good fansite, too.

Also, I gotta wonder about this Fire Cavern prerequisite of acquiring a low-level GF thing. Is the Fire Cavern like some sort of mass production factory where they churn out a bunch of Ifrits or what? Where do they get all these GFs for SeeD candidates and stuff? I dunno. It's a mystery!

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Oh hey, it's starting.

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"First time I got punched in the face, I was like "oh no", then I was like "this is a story"."

Well, that's as far as I'm going tonight.

Like I said, beginning part of the game is slow and boring, so I take it in small doses.

Once we get past the SeeD Exam, we'll do bigger chunks.

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"Why must we always choose between certain death and probable death?"
"I'm in an epic battle to the death, FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF!"

"I gotta say, the early part of FFVIII is easily my least favorite part of the game. Until the end of the SeeD Exam, it's pretty boring."

To be fair, unless you're doing a low-level game, in which case you need to grind a bit with just Seifer, you can get that entire portion of the game out of the way in under an hour.

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& The Cream of Porcupine Tree Fanboyism

Yay, the actual playthrough has started!!! I agree with you Leon, the first part of the game is incredibly dull but I found the chase scene fun

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I bring order and chaos, I am life and death, creator and destroyer, just like the rest of humanity.

From: Eeeevil Overlord | #237
To be fair, unless you're doing a low-level game, in which case you need to grind a bit with just Seifer, you can get that entire portion of the game out of the way in under an hour.

You can, but it's still boring and I don't look forward to doing it. Plus, I do take the time to walk around Garden and talk to people at the beginning, as well as talk to people at Balamb.

I have the same problem with FFVII, too. I have a hard time playing beyond the opening bombing mission and the stuff at Seventh Heaven without wanting to take a break even though that only takes like 30 minutes.

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Plus the beginning takes forever when you decide to grind for cards/magic. >_>

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Grinding for magic is dumb. Wait till you can refine it or put a Gameshark code in to let you draw 99 every time. Drawing 99 myself I'll never do that again.

And yeah the opening FMV of FFVIII is good. That's about the only thing I'll agree with you about on this game probably but hey.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

Well, I never grind, and I don't really start playing cards until I get Ifrit. I played a few games on my way to the Fire Cavern, but I didn't win any of them. Forced a bunch of draws, which surprised me considering some of these people had a lot better cards than the seven you start out with.

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"Why must we always choose between certain death and probable death?"
"I'm in an epic battle to the death, FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF!"

And to keep everyone apprised on things they don't care about, I just started Disc 3 on my FFIX re-playthrough. Even with everyone always complaining about how slow battles are, it still doesn't really phase me. I certainly noticed it at first, but then I just got used to it.

Also, f*** racing Hippaul. I got him to level 30, and that's good enough for me. How anyone could have the patience to get him to level 80 is beyond me.

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"First time I got punched in the face, I was like "oh no", then I was like "this is a story"."

I don't think I've ever raced Hippaul past like level 10.

I don't really get how people enjoy tedious mini-games like that one and jump rope.

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Aw yeah it begins.

*grabs popcorn*

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SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0

Well, it began like 15 hours ago!

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"Hold on a minute! That testimony stinks!"
"Witness! You can't just say 'Hello' and expect us to get anywhere! I want you to testify!"

Hey, having 100 Waters right from the start certainly makes it easier, whether its junctioned to HP or Strength.

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redrocket posted...
Panthera posted...
You can create a coherent character by mixing Paragon and Renegade (and ME2 will reward you by making you not be able to do cool things)

This is probably the biggest flaw in the ME series.

That is hardly limited to ME. Most games I've played that do Good/Evil stuff punish you for playing middle. Usually by missing out on all the best equipment and weapons or by actually being punished in the story because all the best stuff is always based no being one side or the other.

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(Maniac64 at work)
Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic

You're not even at Ifrit or something.

It begins.

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From: LeonhartFour | #244
I don't really get how people enjoy tedious mini-games like that one and jump rope.

At least the jump rope game is mindless, making it easier. You're only tapping one button instead of two. I only did it once in the very beginning, but I still got over 200 jumps in.

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