From: Lopen | #243 Mostly because Ryder does kinda look like an ass if he doesn't thank Cena if he's put in an obvious situation to thank him and doesn't. And if he's not put into an obvious situation it's not obvious enough that Cena cares he wasn't thanked.
I had this thought, but there are a few ways I can think of. One would be to have a bunch of people there congratulating Zack, and Zack celebrating and high fiving people or whatever. Cena is there applauding too. Maybe Zack starts thanking people, and Cena cuts him off after a few people and says "What about me? The guy who gave you your chance?" Zack's taken a little aback and says "Oh, of course bro! I couldn't have won this without you, broski!", but Cena's already in a foul mood over it and just walks away angry. It's kind of hard to explain the scene without writing the whole thing out, but I think you get the picture.
Another would be to have Cena backstage talking to someone other than Zack Ryder, and the person asks if Ryder's thanked him yet, and Cena says no and tries to act unfazed, and Cena leaves the locker room or whatever, and then Zack comes in looking for Cena wanting to thank him for giving him his shot, but he's already gone. Again I'm having trouble summarizing my idea, but yeah.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i54.tinypic.com/vcw0ax.gif
From: Lopen | #248 I'm skeptical Miz can do face. He's just got that face you want to hit, and his first claim to fame is a reality show. I'd buy an ADR Face turn before Miz.
5 or 6 years ago I might agree with you. But you have guys who are being super heel that are really faces. The way Orton destroyed Otunga, and hell Cody on recent Smackdowns are heel beatdowns. But he is cheered. Let Miz go off like that and let him talk trash to some heels and people will love him.
-- Circle gets the Scare! Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with
From: Wanglicious | #250 orton isn't even a huge draw so that's not hard to do! face miz would basically be the new cena back when the guy was fresh.
I was going to say Miz would outdraw Cena, but Cena is just an uber draw before the IWC turned on him and he is still a huge draw now. Current Cena maybe, but I am saying Miz could outdraw Orton at his best. Like a list of top draws total Miz will edge out Orton
-- Circle gets the Scare! Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with
It's just... you need a certain intensity to do that. Orton's good at intensity. Cody's okay at it. I just have my doubts as to how intense he can be. Guess it's possible, though.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
I think Cena's too big for a tag team/stable. He'd have to be a solo monster heel for me. But that's just me.
By the way, what's the deal with Cody Rhodes and being over? MSG was going nuts for him, chanting for him and everything, but then on the Christmas Smackdown he got booed like I haven't heard in a long time
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5205/bananase.png
And yeah I guess that could work. The better way to do it is to have Ryder lose though. Ryder losing is more interesting from the US title scene perspective too. Ryder winning with his first try would be too easy imhhho.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
From: Lopen | #254 It's just... you need a certain intensity to do that. Orton's good at intensity. Cody's okay at it. I just have my doubts as to how intense he can be. Guess it's possible, though.
I think back to how big his pop was at,... I think it was MITB. And how well he handled all the media and the most watched champion thing. If he just eases up his being a douche and panders to the crowd he will be great. Add in the cheap pop of the home town into his I'm Awesome thing and he's already done on the basic level. It will be enough just there, and he will undoubtable build on that.
-- Circle gets the Scare! Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with
From: ScareChan | #255 Rad- you are trying to say Ryder keeps trying to thank Cena but is unsuccessful >_>
Right, but it's not so much what Ryder does that makes the angle work or not. It's how you set up Cena's reaction so that he's neither over or under-reacting. Ryder trying to thank him and just missing every time is the easy part, it's setting up scenarios for Cena to talk about what he did for Ryder without Ryder there that's hard.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i56.tinypic.com/j952zk.gif
Yup. It wasn't even really a mixed crowd reaction; just straight up boos. I thought he had just hit the AA on Mick Foley or something judging from the reaction.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/Radlink.png
From: Lopen | #258 And yeah I guess that could work. The better way to do it is to have Ryder lose though. Ryder losing is more interesting from the US title scene perspective too. Ryder winning with his first try would be too easy imhhho.
Not Ryder's first try. He's had two opportunities and Swagger's ringside interference has screwed him both times.
He's had 4 1on1 matches with Ziggler - lost the two US title matches (Raw/Vengeance after Swagger interfered), won the one on Raw when Hugh Jackman interfered, and pinned him a couple of weeks ago after that false finish.
From: Wanglicious | #240 Actually I think it would be better if Ryder did win, and then Cena gets mad that Ryder doesn't properly thank him for what he did for him. I see Cena's character as constantly needing validation, hence the thing with Roddy Piper.
now this one, this one works. cena shouldn't be beating down on ryder. too quick, easy, and it wouldn't be something you can fuel right to WM. that route's a quick death and kinda sucks. but ryder being part of the slow burn works in this one scenario.
Actually I think it DOES ultimately feed into the WM buiild. They want ,ultimately, for Cena to turn his back on the fans. And theyve been doign a good job of conflating Ryder WITH the fans.
I think he can easily find his actiosn Emblematic of the fans in general without too much intellectual gymnastics.
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http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously?
I'd also still like to assert that it's possibility they're going to swerve us and keep Cena face.
I'm very skittish about predicting Cena heel turns anymore, and if it wasn't for CM Punk finally dethroning him and The Rock as the king of merchandise sales, I wouldn't even entertain the idea.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/6771/pacanat.jpg
Orton's had a consistent year and ADR has a lot of kayfabe accolades. Cena's not had the best year by his standards since he just isn't The Rock and he lost feuds with ADR and Punk. Miz has had a good year, but it's between Henry and Punk for me. If you look at the people Henry has cleanly won feuds with - Show, Sheamus (sort of), Orton - that's impressive, but the buzz Punk created in the summer was out of this world.
I voted for Punk, simply because voting for Henry would just be a waste (if the poll isn't fixed anyway) - he won't be a contender to win - but it'll be interesting to see what b8 thinks when we do the slammies (I presume we will?).
--
"I have a place to live because of FFXI, I lost my virginity because of FFXI, and that's why it's my #5 game of all time" - RPGLord95
Also for superstar of the year I'd probably go with Punk. Hard to argue otherwise-- he drove the most interesting thing of the year by far, and has been generally entertaining.
If we're going on uh "kayfabe" strength I'd go with Henry. Dude's just been dominant.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
I could easily see Del Rio, since kayfabe hes had the most accomplishments.
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http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously?
Superstar of the year is logically between Henry and Punk, I'd give Punk the nod though since his stuff was more dramatic (he did essentially get Vince McMahon semifired, that's kind of big) and the whole two time champion thing, even though Henry holding it once for much longer should really be seen as just as impressive. I guess there's also the whole New Nexus buzz that mattered for like five weeks before collapsing.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
CM Punk has made WWE the most interesting it's been in years, and proven the creative team wrong about how people would never accept him in his current role by being atop the precious merchandise sales list and breaking merchandise records. Mark Henry, on the other hand, did the impossible and not only stopped Smackdown's ratings slide with his title reign, but boosted them week after week. So really I'd be fine with either being called Superstar of the Year.
Kayfabe though, it'd have to be Cena for me. He's reached a point where he's just transcended the mortal plane. It doesn't even matter if he's champion anymore. I don't think he's lost clean in years, and he just took Mark Henry out in one move. Mark Henry. The only one person who's on his level kayfabe right now is The Rock. Even just on accomplishments, he's held the WWE Championship three times (out of nine title reigns this year), and had it more days this year than anyone else. He may have had more impressive years kayfabe, but that speaks more for how he's usually booked than how kayfabe impressive this year has been.
Kayfabe.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i53.tinypic.com/o0ce3q.png
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http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously?
Del rio had the Rumble, money in the bank, and 2 title reigns. Punk lit up the summer, had 2 title reigns and aside from that took over Nexus at the begining of the year. Henry took out Show, took out Kane who is still MIA, and wiped Kozlov off the earth en route to getting his first title reign which has been pretty long and he has dominated everyone in his way. Miz cashed in MITB I want to say at the begining of the year but it may have been end of last year... either way he cashed in and held the title going into Mania where he beat Cena to retain. Most watched champ and then has caused havok even when not in the title scene. Cena has had just the 2 reigns I think and every encounter he has had with Rock he has been on the bad end of it.
I'd put everyone on that list above Cena. Hell Christian had his two reigns and I may even squeak him in above Cena since it was his first reign (even though they were really bad). Orton is above Cena too I think.
But from the outside yeah, Cena has ascended the normal window that we put them in. It's pretty amazing how they could do that with him actually doing so little this year from kayfabe perspective
-- Circle gets the Scare! Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with
Punk and Nexus messed up Orton at the rumble to allow Miz to retain I think. Original nexus attacked Orton before title defence against Wade, Cena - who was fired - interfered and Orton retained. Then Miz cashed in. Night after SvS.
From: ScareChan | #286 Didn't Punk and Nexus mess up Orton and then Miz cashed in? Wasnt that all right around the rumble?
It was Barrett's Nexus. The cash in definitely happened last year because the Orton/Miz Tables match was at TLC 2010. Punk's Nexus interfered in the Orton/Miz match at the Rumble. Miz was champ when the year began because the first match of 2011 was the Miz/Morrison Falls Count Anywhere match.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
What they should have is have Cena chicken out from fighting The Rock around the rumble or so, have Ryder defend Cena's honor because he is the one who gave him a chance for the US title, and challenge The Rock to a fight.
Result: Ryder gets beat up the entire match and basically gets no offense at all. The idea is that he just gets up a lot because OF HIS BROSKI'S HONOR. But then after eating a few finishers he basically passes out. Then Cena snaps out of being a coward and goes full angry-face on Rock. Oh and for extra drama have Ryder give Cena his headband while he is being carried out by stretchers.
...I don't know, it sounds easier than turning Cena heel!
From: ScareChan | #280 Cena has had just the 2 reigns I think and every encounter he has had with Rock he has been on the bad end of it.
Three title reigns, and one was over two months, which is the record for WWE Championship reigns starting in 2011.
From: Haguile | #291 What they should have is have Cena chicken out from fighting The Rock around the rumble or so, have Ryder defend Cena's honor because he is the one who gave him a chance for the US title, and challenge The Rock to a fight.
Result: Ryder gets beat up the entire match and basically gets no offense at all. The idea is that he just gets up a lot because OF HIS BROSKI'S HONOR. But then after eating a few finishers he basically passes out. Then Cena snaps out of being a coward and goes full angry-face on Rock. Oh and for extra drama have Ryder give Cena his headband while he is being carried out by stretchers.
This sounds incredible, but no idea is worth burying Ryder. ZackFAQs 4 lyfe.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i56.tinypic.com/2117wag.jpg
Cena's definitely not attacking anybody. Cena turning heel is THE biggest storyline WWE can do this decade, they're not gonna blow it with some cheap "attack his buddy" angle like they would use to break up The Hart Dynasty, and it's DEFINITELY not happening on some random Raw as a result of a throwaway PPV.
*IF* Cena is gonna turn heel (and I'm still not convinced they'll go through with it), it needs to be a slow burn starting here and building up to a heel turn DURING the WM match with Rock. Anything less isn't doing the angle justice.
From: Dauntless Hunter | #294 *IF* Cena is gonna turn heel (and I'm still not convinced they'll go through with it), it needs to be a slow burn starting here and building up to a heel turn DURING the WM match with Rock. Anything less isn't doing the angle justice.
This is how I've felt since the Roddy Piper segment opened up the door for a heel turn.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police Witness to the greatest night of baseball ever. (9/28/2011)
According to Pwinsider.com, WWE sources have stated that the YouTube videos that have been inserted into Raw for the last few weeks are building to he return of Chris Jericho at the January 2nd Raw in Memphis, TN. The wording of the video was done to make people think that it would be Undertaker, but he is currently not scheduled to return until after the Royal Rumble. Jericho has continued to deny that he is returning, which is something he has always done in a way to keep fans guessing about his status.
