-Matches will last exactly 24 hours. Votes after that much time has elapsed will not be counted, even if a new topic hasn't gone up yet. -This is a contest to determine which character is the most *powerful*. Vote only for the character you think would win in a fight, not the one who's funnier, cooler, or sexier. If you don't do that I can't count your vote. -BOLD YOUR VOTE. Unbolded votes will NOT be counted. -Rallying is allowed. Alts are not. -Fights will take place in a neutral terrain. This does not necessarily mean a *featureless* terrain: assume that both characters will have a chance to use all of their skills to the fullest here, barring setting-specific abilities and anything that requires the presence of multiple enemies (but see below). -Characters start the fight alone. They don't bring allies with them, like Kerrigan and the Zerg Swarm for instance. Summons are allowed though, provided they're brought once combat has started. -Fighters retain their usual personalities. They won't fight to kill unless that's their MO, and won't spam their best attacks to win unless, again, that's how they act in their original media. -Similarly, fighters are unaware of their opponents capabilities at the start of the fight unless their powers facilitate them information (like knowing all there is to know in the universe - this would include who the opponent is and what he can do, as well as weaknesses) -You don't have to justify your vote, but it helps. If you feel like you can add something to the debate, go right ahead! -Seriously, BOLD THE VOTE. So important it bears repeating. -Bracket Link, for viewing past results and future matches: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?&tid=408528&tclass=
Past Results: The first of two Lelouches falls by the hand of an overpowered loli. Will his alternate-universe counterpart advance to the fifth round? We shall see very, very soon. Votals: 1-14
(4) Lord Foul Lord Foul the Despiser is the primary antagonist of The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. An ancient and seemingly immortal being, he traveled the universe planting evil powers said to be capable of tearing planets apart so that later beings would find them and destroy themselves until the Creator was able to defeat him, and establish the Arch of Time to seal him away in The Land, a single continent. Foul possesses incredibly powerful magical abilities, enough that at full power, direct combat against him would likely cause enough damage to destroy the world. In addition to using his powers for direct destructive means, Foul and those he empowers have used a variety of indirect abilities including manipulating the weather, resurrecting shades of the dead, and summoning creatures that induce extreme fear in all who witness them, though these abilities generally require time to use.
Foul has an inherent power over the undead, able to perfectly enslave any who violate the Law of Death. In addition, his nature as equal and opposite to the Creator means that he cannot be defeated by any power not guided by free will, and attempts to carry artifacts containing mere fractions of his power inevitably corrupt the bearers into serving his will. Though he is apparently immortal, sufficient force directed against him or he himself utilizing all the power at his disposal can nonetheless leave him powerless for many centuries at a time.
(4) Sarda From 8-Bit Theatre, Sarda is an extremely powerful reality warper. The self-proclaimed 'Wizard Who Did It', he is responsible for the events of the story behind the scenes. He is all-powerful and, among other abilities, can reverse and stop time, as well as manipulate reality itself. Sarda is tremendously arrogant and spiteful: he has often used his powers to affect the universe out of sheer boredom or just to irritate others, such as when he shortened the length of the days from 36 hours to 24, just to make everyone hurry up, as well as deleting an alternate timeline where the light warriors actually saved the world, which he then erased. He is nigh-omniscient and omnipotent: though mighty as few are, he has been taken by surprise before, and was overcome by the arrival of Chaos after absorbing an exorbitant amount of magic.
Alright, step aside, force ghost Obi Wan and invincible Goku and GameFAQs Flash and TARDIS, I'm taking my shot at the new worst argument in MPFC history here! Lord Foul defeats Sarda for the following reasons!
- Sarda's powers include tons of time manipulation. He sees through time in ways that don't make much sense, can retcon events, teleport people outside of time, and so forth. This is perfect. Foul is bound to a single planet by the Arch of Time, and screwing with time is exactly what it takes to set him free! Sarda's mere existence might be enough to outdo it, but if not, teleport Foul outside the future? Damn you just made him happy, he's free now!
- Sarda's retconning ability essentially lets him control the actions of others. Well, controlling bits of Foul's power always leads to corruption to his will. Even the Bloodguard couldn't resist it, and their willpower is enough to tell things like illness and age to stop bothering them if they swear a strong enough oath, and three of them were still warped by just a small fragment of the Illearth Stone, which is obviously no where near as dangerous as Foul himself. Further, Sarda has shown a weakness to being co-opted by cosmic horrors in 8 Bit Theater, when Chaos manifested in his body - I'd say that's a vulnerability here!
- Sarda has the power of the Orbs. Since we use Buuhan instead of Kid Buu, this should be acceptable - one is a permanent power up unless undone by Vegito, one is a permanent power up unless undone by Chaos. In fact, it's merely hijacked, not undone, so it's even less temporary. Okay, so Sarda has the full power of the water orb, which embodies the water and such of the world. Well, at one point it was established that one of Foul's Ravers with a fragment of the Illearth Stone could have taken over the ocean itself. Foul doesn't let the Ravers have powers that could challenge him, so he could do it too, but much easier and quicker. Essentially, Sarda's own power can be controlled by Foul himself!
- A drooling moron with the Illearth Stone can affect the moon. Foul is obviously better than that moron. Sarda likes to teleport people to the moon. I'm not sure what the significance of this is but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
- Sarda is not capable of creating the universe. He needed to try to go back in time to before it existed to make it actually do what he wanted, but he failed anyway. Foul when not stuck on one world is supposed to be roughly equal with the Creator, who *did* create a universe. Clearly, Foul unleashed trumps Sarda, and I've established how Sarda's abilities are perfect for setting Foul free.
- Sarda may or may not be able to actually alter the timeline, but he certainly thinks he can't. His lack of belief in his own freedom to change things should render him as unable to beat Foul as he would be if he really weren't free.
- We, the voters, decide what happens in this match. This means Sarda does not have free will in the MPFC setting, so the simple fact that this match is happening means he has to lose. Foul has affected things outside the boundaries of his own universe before so it's not much of a stretch to see "real world" people determining things like this, especially since the matches of the Host established that the voters exist even within the canon of MPFC, so it's not really 4th wall breaking, it just looks like it.
- Following on that, Lord Foul can affect the minds of people in the "real world". People, he can *force* you to vote for him even if you don't want to.
I believe I have now made a compelling case for why Lord Foul defeats Sarda in this match up.
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Sarda
I swear to god if any of you buy into any of that ****
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
From: Natwaf_akidna | #005 What counts as free will and doesn't in Lord Foul's verse, anyway?
It basically just means that you have to have chosen to oppose him without having been forced (so you can be tricked or intimidated or whatever into doing it, as long as you have the choice available to do something else). Sarda's future is only predetermined because he already made the choices in question before he makes them, which is confusing but still means he's "predestined" only in the sense that once I've typed this message and posted it, I can't change that I already posted it. He should be in the clear here, frankly, since the only thing that even tries to change his mind about anything is...he himself.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
And that's offensive to mentally handicapped people, cause some handicapped people DO drool.
It's also a pun because the dude's name *is* Drool, and he's probably drooling from how bad his body is decayed by the time he appears in the flesh anyway
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Did you lie in that argument? I thought that was pretty good until those stupid "I don't like GANON or the Host so I'm ironically arguing for something like them LOL"
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You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.
From: GANON1025 | #010 Did you lie in that argument? I thought that was pretty good until those stupid "I don't like GANON or the Host so I'm ironically arguing for something like them LOL"
I don't know if I'd say I lied so much as I very selectively interpreted things <_< And the argument has nothing to do with me disliking the Host or RST Ganon, at least not in content - the Host does a pretty nice job of establishing that we do exist within the 4th wall of MPFC canon.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
- We, the voters, decide what happens in this match. This means Sarda does not have free will in the MPFC setting, so the simple fact that this match is happening means he has to lose. Foul has affected things outside the boundaries of his own universe before so it's not much of a stretch to see "real world" people determining things like this, especially since the matches of the Host established that the voters exist even within the canon of MPFC, so it's not really 4th wall breaking, it just looks like it.
This is at least as good as any argument made in any match regarding The Host, and just as game breaking.
Quick, convince me not to be convinced by it!
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"The courtroom is the garden of holy judgment. Those with lechery in their hearts should leave this sanctuary at once!" ~Franziska von Karma
From: Kenri | #014 This is at least as good as any argument made in any match regarding The Host, and just as game breaking.
Quick, convince me not to be convinced by it!
It's about as logical as a panda riding a unicycle down the Champs D'Elysees; it made no sense for the Host and it makes no sense here because we don't actually decide what happens in the match, we're just debating what we *think* would happen. It doesn't affect the match any more than your $5 bet with your buddy over who wins the World Series affects what happens in the actual games.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Alternately, deciding that the voters exist is outside interference in favour of Lord Foul (or in favour of <anyone against the Host> for his matches) and thus against the rules
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
I think it was from one of the really early ones, I know at some point someone said the whole "character is at their most powerful form" rule meant that Obi Wan should be a force ghost on the basis of the whole "strike me down and I'll become more powerful than you can imagine" quote or something like that
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
From: Panthera | #018 I think it was from one of the really early ones, I know at some point someone said the whole "character is at their most powerful form" rule meant that Obi Wan should be a force ghost on the basis of the whole "strike me down and I'll become more powerful than you can imagine" quote or something like that
It was TheRock, iirc. And it was hilarious.
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Oops! I'm breaking the fourth wall! http://imgon.net/di-CFMD.gif
Care to go into detail on the Ivan Ooze thing. Think it was mentioned before.
To heavily, heavily summarize it (it took place over the course of like 5 topics): during Ipkiss vs. Broly, it was argued that because Ipkiss could reality warp humans (like cops or something) to defeat them, he could do exactly the same thing to someone like Broly, even though Broly is many orders of magnitude stronger than normal humans.
Ipkiss actually won that match, and the next one was Ivan Ooze vs. ...I forget who, but someone who clearly outclassed him. So people argued that because Ivan Ooze was able to imprison Lord Zedd in a snowglobe, he could do exactly the same thing to anyone. Hence, "Ivan Ooze. Snowglobe."
It then went on to make cameo appearances in a bunch of other matches, especially stupid ones involving reality warping. <_<
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"The courtroom is the garden of holy judgment. Those with lechery in their hearts should leave this sanctuary at once!" ~Franziska von Karma
Sarda's powers include tons of time manipulation. He sees through time in ways that don't make much sense, can retcon events, teleport people outside of time, and so forth. This is perfect. Foul is bound to a single planet by the Arch of Time, and screwing with time is exactly what it takes to set him free! Sarda's mere existence might be enough to outdo it, but if not, teleport Foul outside the future? Damn you just made him happy, he's free now!
Sarda's retconning ability essentially lets him control the actions of others. Well, controlling bits of Foul's power always leads to corruption to his will. Even the Bloodguard couldn't resist it, and their willpower is enough to tell things like illness and age to stop bothering them if they swear a strong enough oath, and three of them were still warped by just a small fragment of the Illearth Stone, which is obviously no where near as dangerous as Foul himself. Further, Sarda has shown a weakness to being co-opted by cosmic horrors in 8 Bit Theater, when Chaos manifested in his body - I'd say that's a vulnerability here!
Sarda has the power of the Orbs. Since we use Buuhan instead of Kid Buu, this should be acceptable - one is a permanent power up unless undone by Vegito, one is a permanent power up unless undone by Chaos. In fact, it's merely hijacked, not undone, so it's even less temporary. Okay, so Sarda has the full power of the water orb, which embodies the water and such of the world. Well, at one point it was established that one of Foul's Ravers with a fragment of the Illearth Stone could have taken over the ocean itself. Foul doesn't let the Ravers have powers that could challenge him, so he could do it too, but much easier and quicker. Essentially, Sarda's own power can be controlled by Foul himself!
A drooling moron with the Illearth Stone can affect the moon. Foul is obviously better than that moron. Sarda likes to teleport people to the moon. I'm not sure what the significance of this is but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
Sarda is not capable of creating the universe. He needed to try to go back in time to before it existed to make it actually do what he wanted, but he failed anyway. Foul when not stuck on one world is supposed to be roughly equal with the Creator, who *did* create a universe. Clearly, Foul unleashed trumps Sarda, and I've established how Sarda's abilities are perfect for setting Foul free.
Sarda may or may not be able to actually alter the timeline, but he certainly thinks he can't. His lack of belief in his own freedom to change things should render him as unable to beat Foul as he would be if he really weren't free.
We, the voters, decide what happens in this match. This means Sarda does not have free will in the MPFC setting, so the simple fact that this match is happening means he has to lose. Foul has affected things outside the boundaries of his own universe before so it's not much of a stretch to see "real world" people determining things like this, especially since the matches of the Host established that the voters exist even within the canon of MPFC, so it's not really 4th wall breaking, it just looks like it.
Following on that, Lord Foul can affect the minds of people in the "real world". People, he can *force* you to vote for him even if you don't want to.
I believe I have now made a compelling case for why Lord Foul defeats Sarda in this match up.
Fair enough. More importantly, 8-Bit Theatre is all about brick jokes, and seeing as how it's now round 4, it should be just about time for Jack Rakan, who was unmade by Sarda in Round 2 and who has canonically shown the ability to come back from being retconned out of existence using nothing but sheer willpower, to do so and launch a surprise attack on Sarda. Lord Foul wins by a combination of being legitimately powerful and being the beneficiary of bizarre circumstances.
-- (This space for rent...okay, not really) [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]
Disqualify that vote from Tsunami please, when your given reason is agreement with someone who specifically said his entire argument was colossal garbage you're clearly trolling us <_<
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
****. I have to head out shortly, I don't have enough time at home before the end of the match to actually explain in detail why that big post wasn't valid <_<
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
