Board 8 > Most Powerful Fictional Character 2011: GANON1025 RST vs. Vriska Serketi [MPFC]

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in which case you get to ganon and how his brain works if you go that route. which gets you to 'it's ganon.'

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I forget what was required to stop something like a Psionic Blast in D&D. I only remember it being difficult to do, hence why everyone hates Mind Flayers

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From: Wanglicious | #151
in which case you get to ganon and how his brain works if you go that route. which gets you to 'it's ganon.'

Which means 'nah, he's not an accomplished psyker and has no defenses on that front. He does have a ton of boom though.'. Which more or less makes sense if you ask me, doesn't it?

But seriously Wang, there's a real risk of running the joke into the ground if you just reach for excuses on why he will win instead of letting the match unfold. I'm on the other side of this match because I disapprove of ridiculous votes, not because I don't like GANON and the idea of him making a run. Don't ruin it with overfanboyism.

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most mages are squishy to physical damage.
but they can sure tank magic.
and there's plenty of games or series where any mental stuff is an extension of a kind of magic. see again, most jrpgs. which makes sense seeing how magic tends to be associated with the brain in the first place.

go target someone else on 'extras,' as how i see a standard mage ain't changing there.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

From: DeathChicken | #152
I forget what was required to stop something like a Psionic Blast in D&D. I only remember it being difficult to do, hence why everyone hates Mind Flayers

Psiblast is just a boom magic: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ultrablast.htm

However, for the classic "your mind asplodes" schtick that makes Mindflayers be what they are: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm

Which has no save, it can merely be mitigated. This kind of dovetails with why I'm calling Wang out - assuming a character that never faced psionics is good at resisting them is something you're not gonna see against say, Ness. So why do it against Vriska? Why abuse the toonforce so hard you turn a fun entrant into another Darsh except even more poorly written?

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it ain't an excuse, it ain't reaching, and it really has nothing to do with my vote there either. so on all accounts there, you're wrong. you don't see him (or mages in general) by default having mental resistances in the first place. i do unless something otherwise says so. unless mental stuff is split off, it's all magic to me. you probably also see that differently. which is all well and good, but nowhere close to my interp of how all those systems work.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

From: Wanglicious | #156
it ain't an excuse, it ain't reaching, and it really has nothing to do with my vote there either. so on all accounts there, you're wrong. you don't see him (or mages in general) by default having mental resistances in the first place. i do unless something otherwise says so. unless mental stuff is split off, it's all magic to me. you probably also see that differently. which is all well and good, but nowhere close to my interp of how all those systems work.

Thing is that magic is split from psi in Homestuck. You have Fraymotifs, the spells, and you have troll psi. So on one side you have precedent for a split. On the other side, psi doesn't exist period (not a single spell has psionic trappings from a quick skim of the doc), so you don't know. So why not appeal to the precedent, when it makes sense to do so?

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If GANON can create a Sun of Nothing and not get killed by it, he presumably has some rather absurd MDEF, either that or it has a bull**** "does not hurt caster" clause in there somewhere. Given that his abilities are open to interpretation and that clauses like that are universally bull****, I choose to take it as him having quite good MDEF.

Dunno about psychic attacks though, I generally wouldn't rule that under MDEF but rather... willpower or some such.

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Back in the Random Spell Tournament, I interpreted it as both people die from sheer damage, with Ganon dieing slightly later, but still counts as a win.

An alternate interpretation that I didn't use was it could just be a standard flashy JRPG spell. Ultimate level.

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From: Kenri | #158
If GANON can create a Sun of Nothing and not get killed by it, he presumably has some rather absurd MDEF, either that or it has a bull**** "does not hurt caster" clause in there somewhere. Given that his abilities are open to interpretation and that clauses like that are universally bull****, I choose to take it as him having quite good MDEF.

Dunno about psychic attacks though, I generally wouldn't rule that under MDEF but rather... willpower or some such.

This is my take on it, too. Psi is almost always 'not magic'. Even when it claims to fall under the same umbrella as magic it usually doesn't work like that in practice, even (you have the example of D&D again, for instance: psi technically has transparency with magic, but then it doesn't because some stuff is psi only, and some is magic only, and ohnotheserulessuck). Just doesn't make sense to treat it as magic when they have distinctly different origins and methods.

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split from one series, not split in another. there were spells in the contest that affected the opponent's mind by many interps. when you come from a universe where you've got a bunch of spellcasters that can do literally the most random and absurd thing, including mental effects, it makes sense that the fighters aren't incompetent. it makes more sense the winner of the contest is actually good at it.

aka, he's a good mage and thus has good magic defenses. magic includes stuff after the mind. which isn't how you see it, and that's fine. by default, that's how i see it. not sure how this is complicated for ya.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

Mostly that from my point of view the way you presented it looked wayyyyy too much like "oh noes I don't like this, let's add another implausible power to the pile". That's all. If it wasn't like that my apologies.

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makes perfect sense based on your definition of what magic is. fate/stay night for example doesn't bother splitting anything and puts everything supernatural under the umbrella of 'magic.' you mind control someone? magic does it, and magic resistance is needed to counter it. which is gained by being a good mage. willpower's a given of course since hey, it's the mind. a simple mind sucks, a complicated mind helps. umineko defined magic as pretty much EVERYTHING that a person couldn't do. >_>; a billion rpgs run status effects as magic, even if they attack a person's mind. SMT pretty much covers the similar all umbrella, though has some weirder stuff as you go higher. either way, psi doesn't exist, but you'll find some psi-like effects. still is magic to it. hell, while it doesn't really fit into either one, star wars does the exact same thing except bundles it as just 'the force,' without really splitting too much from what other series would most definitely categorize as magic, psi, or mix both up. Negima splits ki and magic up, and magic shows many psi-like effects. yet it's all magic there. and of course, you resist it by being that damn good. some series shade it up in magic being able to do pretty much the same thing as psychics and much, much more, though this tends to make it look like psychics just plain fit a more specialized field (see: marvel and dc for how this works, and usually the same defenses work for both because it's all mental defenses).

these are not how you think. which is, again, fine. but absolutely nothing there is wrong. far as i'm concerned, if your series shows magic as affecting the mind, and does not offer any distinctions or notable references to other supernatural powers, then it all fits under magic because that's how it defines magic in its universe. seeing how no other definition of magic exists for ganon except that you can have the most bizarre act considered magic, then hey - it's all magic to him. and it's all magic to me.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

yeah uh, i don't see how that's an implausible power at all there. >_>; or... even an actual 'power' really. good mage in a universe where magic is literally any random combination you can come up with. it can be everything from a special fork to summonings to throwing mud at people to having a special skill against certain types to changing your opponent's mental state, etc etc.

that's the spell contest in a nutshell. 'you're a mage in an f'd up world where magic is anything it can be.'
...thus, the winner really shouldn't be crappy. how you see the opponents who'd fight in a tourney, and the winner of said tourney be, is up to you; variables include the person, the spells in question (e.g., if someone's fielding spells that are more physical oriented, they're probably more physical), and of course whatever leanings you have in general to the setting.

mine are pretty straight forward. all is magic because magic is everything there. there's no way a good mage is gonna suck at mental defenses.

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The future must protect the clone's past.
"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.

more votes for GANNY

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no misuzu you are the princess

GANON1025

The arguments here are rather convincing imho

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Really? People are arguing that Vriska opens with mind control? When, at least on-panel, she literally never does it after reaching God Tier except on people a universe away because she can't physically interact with them, and it about 413% more likely to open with luck stealing, rolling the dice, or just plain taunting because her ego is nearly as massive as ESoN? Yeah, okay. Keep reaching, guys.

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From: SemiFinal vs Belarus | #167
Really? People are arguing that Vriska opens with mind control? When, at least on-panel, she literally never does it after reaching God Tier except on people a universe away because she can't physically interact with them, and it about 413% more likely to open with luck stealing, rolling the dice, or just plain taunting because her ego is nearly as massive as ESoN? Yeah, okay. Keep reaching, guys.

This might be because, you know, she faces a robot and a Dersite afterward. Both immune to mind control. She's really quick to KO John with it post-godding when it's convenient to her.

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GANON1025 RST

arguments and swag.

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"WTF is wrong with my brain" - SmartMuffin

I'm quite sure I remember it frequently argued in the random spell tournament that Sun of Nothing would kill both individuals. Gannon would just die a bit later. In such a case, I'd say Vriska would win, seeing as she wouldn't stay down.

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From: KanzarisKelshen | #168
This might be because, you know, she faces a robot and a Dersite afterward. Both immune to mind control. She's really quick to KO John with it post-godding when it's convenient to her.

Tavros & Jack. Granted, Tavros is and always was a joke, and one of Tavros/Vriska probably should have been able to control Jack considering Vriska exiled the Troll universe's Jack that way and Tavros was fully capable of controlling Beq. Possibly Kanaya, too, but Vriska decided that "standing there with a stupid look on your face, waiting to be punched" was the correct opening gambit.

Terezi is certainly too high on the hemospectrum for the mindhijacking to work, so it isn't applicable to her.

And, again, her using it on John means nothing when it was the only thing she could do in that situation. Had she been capable of pushing him away from the computer and/or personally shoving Beq into the kernalsprite, she would have. Time and time again, her mind control is something she only turns to when she's not capable of physically dealing with something.

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"Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane

Her mind control cant work on people with higher blood than her's?

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It gets established somewhere that lowbloods tend to have more and better psychic powers, but, in return, they are more vulnerable to psychic powers. Highbloods are the opposite: fewer and weaker psychic powers (for all that the two examples of highblood psychic powers we have are pretty damn imba).

She definitely can't use it on anyone on Equius's level or higher, otherwise she would have after he and Aradia betrayed her. And the fact that she need to DMR to control Terezi suggests she can't even control anyone on Terezi's middle-of-the-ground level.

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"Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane

did he win yet

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no misuzu you are the princess