Board 8 > Most Powerful Fictional Character 2011: Urza vs. Revolver Ocelot [MPFC]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Given his other aiming feats, it doesn't exactly seem improbable

Dimension thing is hard to judge, just because there weren't any alternate dimensions in the FOXHOUNDverse. We do know he can somehow shoot through people without harming them to get to his target, and through himself (with the gun pointing the wrong way)

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Urza with ease.

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Ocelot trick shots the eyes, because that's LDoF Ocelot would know to do that in an instant.

This is a tempting argument. Sounds like LDoF Ocelot is a hard counter.

Is it specifically known that Urza has wards on his eyes, or is it just a matter of "It would make sense for Urza to cover his weak point with wards"? If the former, exactly how do the wards work? It's clear that a purely physical barrier isn't going to be sufficient protection against Ocelot, since he can apparently teleport bullets or whatever.


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another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high

Urza (AKA The most anti voted character in this contests history)

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...Actually, after checking it, I am remembering slightly wrong. The character I mentioned, Venser... well, let me just quote from the MTG wiki:

Venser eventually killed the Weaver King, when he planeswalked away, holding only the exterior of a pair of powerstones. The vast energy the powerstones held exploded outward, killing even the incorporeal Weaver King.

So... yeah, that doesn't answer anything about the durability of powerstones. Also note that Venser and Urza are entirely different kinds of planeswalkers. Venser might lose a fight to half of the voters in this match, he is such a weakling. <_<;


Continuing on the disintegration thing: in his battle with the planeswalker tutored archangel, Radiant, Urza got chucked into...well, pure entropy really. He was disintegrated and reappeared..and was weakened when said archangel took the Powerstones from him. The archangel then was really stupid and fiddled with them and got herself killed (and Urza restored), but that's on character stupidity. That do the trick Kenri?

Nope, because Radiant removed his eyes rather than destroying them, which has been my argument all along. Hell, if Urza got disintegrated and didn't die from that, it proves that his eyes can be destroyed and he'll be fine.

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From: Ed Bellis | #105
It's not a very tempting argument. Ocelot seems to "know what's going to happen" because of knowledge from the Patriots and whatnot. That doesn't automatically make him able to know the weak points in his opponent.

Although I do think that he'd have enough sense to recognize that Urza's glowing eyes might be a potential target!

This. Unless he pulled some out-of-comic knowledge at some point and I missed it that argument doesn't work. The bullethax arguments do though.

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From what I've seen... Webcomic Ocelot just has the power of insane accuracy and hitting the target no matter what.. Does he have any feat of his bullet causing larger damage than a bullet should be capable of?

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I can see Revolver Ocelot considering the glowing eyes a decent target. At which point it's basically over, from the sound of things.

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The eyes seem like a pretty natural target too, to anyone who played Fallout 1 or 2.

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Oh, the powerstones are practically invulnerable.

Urza then.

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Yeah, if his eyes are glowing and it's possible to destroy the stones inside them with bullets, I think I may have to change my vote Change back to Ocelot

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Listen.

The issue is not whether he'd target the eyes.

Of course he would. Even if they WEREN'T glowing, shooting somebody in the eye is a pretty good way to kill them, most of the time!

The issue is whether it would do anything. And given that Urza always has protective wards on his eyes, and given that his entire body has been destroyed before, there's no reason to believe it would do anything.

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"The courtroom is the garden of holy judgment. Those with lechery in their hearts should leave this sanctuary at once!" ~Franziska von Karma

"Urza's weakpoints are his eyes!"

"No they aren't, Urza doesn't have any weakpoints at all!"

"Yes he does!"

"No he doesn't!"

"Duck season!"

"Rabbit season!"

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DeathChicken posted...
"Urza's weakpoints are his eyes!"

"No they aren't, Urza doesn't have any weakpoints at all!"

"Yes he does!"

"No he doesn't!"

"Duck season!"

"Rabbit season!"

DUCK SEASON!

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Yeah, a bullet would NOT destroy Urza's eyes and lol @ anyone who thinks it would.

Urza Planeswalker

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Don't laugh at me. I demand you explain your harsh words, coward.

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How do you destroy the eyes then? It seems like their durability is up in the air, which is silly since they seem to be the only way to kill him.

Well, first of all, no, that is not the only way to kill him by any means, and I have no idea why we're focusing on it. Urza's big weaknesses are direct attacks on the soul and "sufficient magical stress". Those two are responsible for the deaths of the majority of planeswalkers in the series. An example of sufficient magical stress is attempting to close a tear in space/time. An example of direct attacks on the soul was Urza's artifact called... I think the Kill Rubrick, which basically turned souls into bombs. Removing - not destroying! - his eyes also weakens him, but you gotta get through his wards first to do that. Higher level reality warping also tends to work pretty well, and other people (not me) have also argued that you can just kill him over and over until he runs out of mana, but I personally think that's BS.

Anyway! I'm not entirely sure it's possible to destroy Urza's eyes, because he can presumably just regenerate them, because he's apparently done it before. Maybe remove them first and THEN destroy them, but at that point, why even risk destroying them? Radiant tried that and died because of it. So really I think this entire avenue of attack is flawed on every level. That would be the summary of my opinion of this matter.

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"The courtroom is the garden of holy judgment. Those with lechery in their hearts should leave this sanctuary at once!" ~Franziska von Karma

Don't laugh at me. I demand you explain your harsh words, coward.

How would his bullets get through Urza's protective wards?

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I don't know anything about Urza.

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Yeah, it sounds like the eyes are really too tough to hit, and Ocelot won't be able to harm him any other way. Change back again to Urza

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I thought part of the argument was that the bullets would teleport right past the wards and protections because thats Ocelot's thing of pulling hax shots <shrug>

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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Man, matches like this aren't even fun--can we get a character who is a bit more clearly defined, please?

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urza

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From: metroid composite | #128
Man, matches like this aren't even fun--can we get a character who is a bit more clearly defined, please?

Which one?

(I honestly couldn't resist the snark. And I have a large writeup of Urza I managed to scavenge from dozens of sources, but I'd rather not deploy such a mammoth wall unless there's a very large demand for it. Nobody will like it.)

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I also couldn't tell which one was being referred to. >_>


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another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high

Which one?



At least I assume it is.

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"The courtroom is the garden of holy judgment. Those with lechery in their hearts should leave this sanctuary at once!" ~Franziska von Karma

Ocelot's very clearly defined. He shoots guns pew pew and when he does he doesn't miss, even if it makes no sense for him to hit

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Oy... Still not 100% sure, but Ocelot for now.

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I read this whole thing... and by far too odd of odds... Urza

A lot of people in this are just hax... many shouldn't belong considering they are pretty much the powers to annihilate worlds, then there are people that could hardly slice through the simplest material

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:D

DeathChicken posted...
Ocelot's very clearly defined. He shoots guns pew pew and when he does he doesn't miss, even if it makes no sense for him to hit

Yeah, this.

Urza is the one where "his eyes are a weak point" "No, they're not."

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

From: metroid composite | #136
DeathChicken posted...
Ocelot's very clearly defined. He shoots guns pew pew and when he does he doesn't miss, even if it makes no sense for him to hit

Yeah, this.

Urza is the one where "his eyes are a weak point" "No, they're not."

His eyes are 'a' weakpoint. He has four main ways to lose:

A) Rend his soul. He's basically embodied soul
B) Disjunct him by dispelling magic.
C) Manaburn him.
D) Take his powerstones from him, taking his planeswalker powers from him at the same time.

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C) Manaburn him.

Don't you have a big rule about not trying to argue game mechanics for Urza? <___<

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"The courtroom is the garden of holy judgment. Those with lechery in their hearts should leave this sanctuary at once!" ~Franziska von Karma

From: Kenri | #138
C) Manaburn him.

Don't you have a big rule about not trying to argue game mechanics for Urza? <___<

No, I'm arguing direct manaburn. Dragons get manaburned and they're way more corporeal than Urza. Being incarnated energy, if he loses the mana to manifest, he's outta there.

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Urza

easily

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No, I'm arguing direct manaburn. Dragons get manaburned and they're way more corporeal than Urza. Being incarnated energy, if he loses the mana to manifest, he's outta there.

I know, I was just making a joke. >_>

I still don't think that's likely to ever happen, though, considering planeswalkers can regain mana just from planeswalking.

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"The courtroom is the garden of holy judgment. Those with lechery in their hearts should leave this sanctuary at once!" ~Franziska von Karma

Urza

Ocelot only takes this if his shots can get past all of Urza's wards and Urza isn't able to regenerate the damage. Based on arguments, it seems pretty doubtful that both hold true.


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another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high

Urza Planeswalker

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Started: July 6, 2005

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: Kenri | #141
No, I'm arguing direct manaburn. Dragons get manaburned and they're way more corporeal than Urza. Being incarnated energy, if he loses the mana to manifest, he's outta there.

I know, I was just making a joke. >_>

I still don't think that's likely to ever happen, though, considering planeswalkers can regain mana just from planeswalking.

This counts as a ringout though, in the same way a F/SN Servant wouldn't get an infinite mana bag, at least in my mind. Doesn't mean Urza couldn't return to the fray if taken out, but he only has as much mana as he'd have under normal conditions, and no more, IMO.

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I don't think Ocelot's going to fight him head on, he can also pilot a MG Ray to the battle.

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Urza

Ocelot just seems completely outclassed, toonforce and Metal Gear or no

(also REX > RAY)

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