Board 8 > My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Discussion Topic 4: Dawn of Discord

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jeeeeze they work fast >_>

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Pirateking2000 posted...


Jeeeeze they work fast >_>

Yeah, that was uploaded almost half an hour ago too, because I just got done watching the youtube upload.

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

Actually yeah, what was the moral here? "If people hate you because you're scary, keep on truckin' through"?

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More like "use your faults/quirks as something you can have fun with and not something to be ashamed of"

But yeah it wasn't the best episode overall. Definitely rewatchable though.

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_foolmo_
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Really? I thought the moral was

"TALKING IN CAPS IS COOL!"

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I felt a lot better about the episode after a rewatch.

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Love Pinkie's fear mongering. But no Rarity. =/

apparently Rarity was supposed to be in the ep but was cut for some reason.

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I think my fundamental problem with the Luna episode is this:

Let's say you watch the opening two pilot episodes...and Applebuck season. Now you have a pretty good picture of Apple Jack's character. Her desires. Her temptations. The flaws in her personality. Her strengths. What she stands for. Her long-term goals.

Now let's say you watch the opening two pilot episodes...and this recent Luna episode. What have you learned about Luna's character? She's socially awkward and wants to make friends. O.k., that could apply to Twilight or Zekora or damn near any pony if the authors decide they want to cover social awkwardness again (Rainbow Dash with the wonderbolts, Fluttershy sometimes, Rarity with the prince, the CMC with kids who have their cutie mark). Obviously this isn't exactly a defining trait in FiM. Is there anything else we can determine about her character? Some level of snobbery, I guess?

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

^ I would like a future episode / saga where Luna is sent to learn common customs / live in ponyville for a bit.

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Ehh, that episode was pretty disappointing. It was still alright, but I don't really like the direction they look with Luna's character.

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This was basically exactly the best way they could've handled Luna's character. I have absolutely no idea what people wanted out of her.

Luna isn't comparable to the mane 6, she is Zecora-level. One episode centered around her, and then just cameos later. She doesn't need their level of characterization.

Still, she is unique because she is 1000 years removed from the present so that's a different kind of awkward than the other awkwards in the show.

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_foolmo_
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foolm0ron posted...
Luna isn't comparable to the mane 6, she is Zecora-level. One episode centered around her, and then just cameos later. She doesn't need their level of characterization.

Zecora's not that great.

But...probably still better than Luna.

And they both fall behind someone like, say, Big Mac, who doesn't even have any episodes centered around him.

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

Also, man Twilight is trying really hard to usurp Rarity and Fluttershy as my favorite character. This is the third episode in a row she's made me laugh my ass off.

Most underrated moment of the episode is when Luna is the only one who recognizes Twilight's obscure nerdy costume.

Luna's characterization in the pilot episodes could probably be summarized as her being so shocked after the battle that she had no composure whatsoever. Now that she's re-adjusted to life (sorta), she's trying to go back to her old ways, which...aren't working out so well.

Also, this video I just made:



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BB sent PM

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http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/582081

no....No....NO NO NO NONONONONONONONO

lol

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Pirateking2000 posted...
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/582081

no....No....NO NO NO NONONONONONONONO

lol

I feel like I'm missing a reference or something. Why would anyone make this?

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

Now let's say you watch the opening two pilot episodes...and this recent Luna episode. What have you learned about Luna's character? She's socially awkward and wants to make friends. O.k., that could apply to Twilight or Zekora or damn near any pony if the authors decide they want to cover social awkwardness again (Rainbow Dash with the wonderbolts, Fluttershy sometimes, Rarity with the prince, the CMC with kids who have their cutie mark). Obviously this isn't exactly a defining trait in FiM. Is there anything else we can determine about her character? Some level of snobbery, I guess?

shut up hater



Kidding aside, this is basically my problem: she has no character. "But it's a different kind of awkward!!" seems like grasping at straws to me. You have this fan-favorite secondary character within a big chunk of your community; why make her not only boring (and somewhat annoying), but a retread of stuff you've done before?

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Luna: ART THOU ANGRY!? <drops the moon on topic>

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From: BoshStrikesBack | #371
"But it's a different kind of awkward!!" seems like grasping at straws to me.

It's not

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_foolmo_
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A stunning rejoinder.

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Houston Texans: 3-3
also Jaffar I am dubbing you the hipster Atheist.-- ExThaNemesis

thank god

Luna pissed of fan-fic obsessed fans so much

btw, this is why Link still doesn't have voice acting

btw btw, this is why nerds can't have nice things

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Yeah I greatly enjoy all of the Luna fanon all coming crashing down. Most people seem to think this is awesome though and they're right. I actually like Luna now.

BoshStrikesBack posted...

Kidding aside, this is basically my problem: she has no character. "But it's a different kind of awkward!!" seems like grasping at straws to me. You have this fan-favorite secondary character within a big chunk of your community; why make her not only boring (and somewhat annoying), but a retread of stuff you've done before?

I'm seeing it as an entirely different beast from the stuff we've seen to date. All ensemble cast comedies are built around lampooning social misunderstandings and awkwardness, aren't they? Every episode in the show has had it in some form. This was just the timeless "relic from the past" culture shock gag, which the show hadn't attempted before now. Being disappointed with Luna's character is a matter of taste, but I definitely wouldn't say she's a retread.

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It's a sad thing that your adventures have ended here !!

My thoughts:

So Celestia used to talk like that 1000 years ago too? Because that would be the only thing that makes sense.

Luna goes from being really cute and easy to empathize with when she's just trying her best to fit in to being just a loud generic figure when she's being thick and angry/whiny about everything. I don't have a problem with wanting to tell this kind of story about not knowing how to fit in or making her Ye Olde Royalty, but it doesn't make sense to me that she'd totally lose her cool and flip out because a bunch of kids keep running away if she really used to rule benevolently over a whole kingdom for an incredibly long time. Even being on the moon for 1000 years.

Also on that line, did riding around looking like death incarnate really used to mull over well with the populace, to the point where she doesn't even think about it?

Pinkie Pie was amazing. Again. Only Pinkie Pie could make actually roleplaying a chicken that amazing. Also egg. Zecora was great as well and looked AWESOME. The fanfic writers who realized she'd make a natural narrator were right (note: this is not characterization through fanfic, it's just the natural extension of her voice and mood + rhyming.)

A favorite image of the episode was Luna casually munching on an apple for me. Just really like the contrast there for some reason.

And the biggest question I had: When Zecora was telling the story of Nightmare Moon at the beginning, green clouds are forming all sorts of shapes. Yet there is no unicorn seen manipulating them (and Twilight, the only unicorn we know has significant talent, is clearly not.) So what is actually going on there? Is Zecora really an enchantress after all? Keep in mind that Trixie shooting out cheap illusions was enough to wow an audience, so it's not like they just had some random unicorn off the street doing it.

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"That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia

Is Zecora really an enchantress after all?

She had some powdery stuff. I'm thinking equestria-styled fireworks, sort of.

but it doesn't make sense to me that she'd totally lose her cool and flip out because a bunch of kids keep running away if she really used to rule benevolently over a whole kingdom for an incredibly long time.

she was banished to the moon because she got angry that they didnt like her night(even though they were just sleeping through it).

She has issues there.

So Celestia used to talk like that 1000 years ago too? Because that would be the only thing that makes sense.

Celestia grew up with the times. Luna did not.

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Finally watched it. Dragonception. Good ol' nerd costumes nobody gets. Wait, didn't quite catch that rhyme they said... oh well. Oh hey Zecora! What a comeback. Galadriel speech, Luna? Really? I am loving this Luna! Good ol' Fluttershy. Goddammit Pinkie >_> Wait, what did she scream? Dispel? GODDAMMIT DASH!

Now give me my song >_>

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I confess, I feel better about this on a rewatch. Still think the "relic from the past trying to fit in" motif has been done to death, and that they could've taken Luna's character in a less derivative (or at least less forced) direction, but it was still tolerable. Definitely a bottom-tier episode, however, even considering how good Pinkie was.

As for Zecora, she's less enchantress and more summoner. See: all her crazy spells and potions.

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also Jaffar I am dubbing you the hipster Atheist.-- ExThaNemesis

Okay, okay, full version of the P&F song:



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From: Crystal King | #377
I'm seeing it as an entirely different beast from the stuff we've seen to date. All ensemble cast comedies are built around lampooning social misunderstandings and awkwardness, aren't they? Every episode in the show has had it in some form. This was just the timeless "relic from the past" culture shock gag, which the show hadn't attempted before now. Being disappointed with Luna's character is a matter of taste, but I definitely wouldn't say she's a retread.

I am now quoting a guy who knows what he's talking about

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_foolmo_
'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me

^I wouldn't go that far.

All ensemble cast comedies are built around lampooning social misunderstandings and awkwardness, aren't they?

That's part of it, sure- but just one part. As an animated show, a lot of MLP's appeal is the slapstick, its parodying/honoring traditional cartoon cliches (chase sequences, moral-of-the-story structure), and surprisingly witty lines and exchanges. It's not all about satire.

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Houston Texans: 3-3
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red13n posted...

she was banished to the moon because she got angry that they didnt like her night(even though they were just sleeping through it).

She has issues there.

Eh, if it was jealousy plus magical corruption that's plausible enough. Faust did state that the magical corruption thing was canon; it wasn't purely her doing everything, which is why the Elements could transform her back. Still have a hard time believing a political figure would lose her cool so quickly, twice, after supposedly ruling in harmony and being balanced enough to help defeat Discord the first time. (I'm assuming they do have political responsibilities based on Celestia at the Gala.)

Just feels to me like she's a bit too thick with something as basic as not blowing up on everyone after three minutes of trying to fit in. Luna comes away as hard to empathize with as a result. Just during those select moments, though.

Celestia grew up with the times. Luna did not.

I know that, I just was thinking about how weird everything must have been back then.

Also, I forgot my most important thought. Luna was originally held back from appearing because Hasbro thought she would be too scary as a figure of the night. I really, REALLY hope that doesn't mean she won't appear again or having any importance outside of this episode. I would really like to see her sisterly relationship with Celestia explored more (especially since it's hugely intertwined with the mythology and backstory, and also because it was really sweet in episode 2.) I'd also like to see her acting normal for more than a few seconds.

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"That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia

I would really like to see her sisterly relationship with Celestia explored more (especially since it's hugely intertwined with the mythology and backstory, and also because it was really sweet in episode

i think we've been promised another backstory ep. Not sure what its going to focus on though. It could not involve Luna/Celestia at all.

Still have a hard time believing a political figure would lose her cool so quickly, twice, after supposedly ruling in harmony and being balanced enough to help defeat Discord the first time

that was a lot longer than 1000 years ago.

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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.

Well, according to the interview with Celestia's voice actress, we will be getting more backstory stuff at some point.

Anyways, I'm not sure what to think about this episode. A rewatch will probably do a lot of good, but it won't change the fact that it didn't do the two things I really wanted it to: establish what Luna's been doing this whole time between s1e2 and here, and at least somewhat establish her relationship with Celestia.

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BoshStrikesBack posted...
^I wouldn't go that far.

All ensemble cast comedies are built around lampooning social misunderstandings and awkwardness, aren't they?

That's part of it, sure- but just one part. As an animated show, a lot of MLP's appeal is the slapstick, its parodying/honoring traditional cartoon cliches (chase sequences, moral-of-the-story structure), and surprisingly witty lines and exchanges. It's not all about satire.

Completely agreed, but none of those elements lends any support to the idea that she's a rehash of past ideas. Social misunderstandings have been at the core of every episode so far; all the elements you mentioned are there to make something that could have been preachy and paint-by-numbers into the great cartoon that it is.

If there were anything in her portrayal that were against the cartoonish spirit of the show, I'd be all aboard the hate train. Fortunately, fanon didn't come to pass and we got a character who fits right in with the madness. It isn't as if we're expected to take her seriously: her theatrics were a parody of every Saturday-morning cartoon villain ever, we got a good dose of slapstick in her scene with Fluttershy, and her olde english made for some fun one-liners and exchanges.

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It's a sad thing that your adventures have ended here !!

If there were anything in her portrayal that were against the cartoonish spirit of the show, I'd be all aboard the hate train. Fortunately, fanon didn't come to pass and we got a character who fits right in with the madness. It isn't as if we're expected to take her seriously: her theatrics were a parody of every Saturday-morning cartoon villain ever, we got a good dose of slapstick in her scene with Fluttershy, and her olde english made for some fun one-liners and exchanges.

Most of the comments I made about the episode were before my rewatch, where I warmed up tremendously. After reading this, however, I'm tempted to watch it again with this perspective in mind. Good stuff.

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also Jaffar I am dubbing you the hipster Atheist.-- ExThaNemesis

I'm kind of wondering at this point if you have any idea what the fanon for Luna is actually like.

Hint: The vast majority of it is extremely cartoonish in nature. Mostly being slow to adapt to the changed Equestrian culture and technology, being a bookworm like Twilight (but with lots of math), and being a prankster. Stuff where she's evil, depressing, or resentful towards Celestia is pretty rare.

Edit: Also, in terms of images that aren't just poses or purely for artistic appeal, probably half the stuff with Luna is filly Luna doing adorable things completely unrelated to canon in any way and still unaffected by this episode.

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"That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia

Hint: The vast majority of it is extremely cartoonish in nature. Mostly being slow to adapt to the changed Equestrian culture and technology, being a bookworm like Twilight (but with lots of math), and being a prankster. Stuff where she's evil, depressing, or resentful towards Celestia is pretty rare.

This is about right from what I gathered, and I much would've preferred this. Still, I'm coming around to "canon Luna," even if she's a much more superficial character than I would've liked.

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Houston Texans: 3-3
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From: the_rowan | #385
I know that, I just was thinking about how weird everything must have been back then.

That's the best part. 1000 years ago they must have had some really strict pony dictatorship or something, which is pretty amusing.

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_foolmo_
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I could just imagine Celestia using the "Royal Voice of Doom" all the time

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Yeah I thought filly Luna was the most popular part about Luna, and that wasn't ruined at all. The bookworm/prankster angle was dumb, we already have a bookworm and like 4 pranksters.

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_foolmo_
'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me

There are bronies on gamefaqs?

I should check the other boards more often.

Also I love the mayor dressed as a clown. Politicians should do that more often.

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How would everyone rate the first 4 episodes of the season so far? Here's mine:

Return of Harmony - Part 1: 8/10
Return of Harmony - Part 2: 8/10
Lesson Zero: 10/10
Luna Eclipsed: 6/10

Much stronger start than season 1, sucks that there's so many breaks between episodes.

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Using the full scale, where 5 is "average":

Return of Harmony - Part 1: 9/10
Return of Harmony - Part 2: 7/10
Lesson Zero: 8/10
Luna Eclipsed: 4/10

Yeah I thought filly Luna was the most popular part about Luna, and that wasn't ruined at all. The bookworm/prankster angle was dumb, we already have a bookworm and like 4 pranksters.

Yeah, I wonder why she looks so different? I actually prefer her new regal look.

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Houston Texans: 3-3
also Jaffar I am dubbing you the hipster Atheist.-- ExThaNemesis

On a scale where 10/10 is Party of One and 1/10 is Owl's Well that Ends Well:

Return of Harmony part 1: 7/10
Return of Harmony part 2: 8/10
Lesson Zero: 9/10
Luna Eclipsed: 8/10

So, I'm pretty impressed so far. I wouldn't rate these high if I didn't mean it - about half of the season 1 episodes are a 5/10 or worse for me.

oh my god my mind

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_foolmo_
'Most people at least try to say something funny. See foolmo's post as an example.' - The Real Truth

From: Bigwig_rah | #396
Return of Harmony - Part 1: 8/10
Return of Harmony - Part 2: 8/10
Lesson Zero: 10/10
Luna Eclipsed: 6/10

I could go with this, maybe subtracting 1 from each value... I'm apprehensive rating these episodes higher than 8 because I feel like coming episodes will absolutely shatter the scale

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_foolmo_
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]