Board 8 > Is there any sequel you think actively detracts from the original?

(+) Yeah! (+)

There will always be bad sequels, of course, there's no way around that. But how many can you think of that, just by existing and being associated with the original, actually good work makes the original less?

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Alien 3

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Nothing.

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Not literally, since you can just enjoy the first one, but The Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions.

Since the first one relied a bit on intrigue and what comes next, having what came next be not good (in my humble opinion) does make me less interested in rewatching the first one.

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Umineko Chiru

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I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of, but MGS4 comes to mind. Not a huge detraction but way too much attempting to wrangle every character from the previous games into the game's story-- and it made some of em worse for it I'd say.

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Lopen posted...
I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of, but MGS4 comes to mind. Not a huge detraction but way too much attempting to wrangle every character from the previous games into the game's story-- and it made some of em worse for it I'd say.

Hey now.

Nastasha never shows up again.

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Not physically.

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I can get behind that MGS4 mention. It was so determined to tie everything in that it ruined a lot of the characters, too be frank. It completely changed much of the cast to the point where what made them so interesting and likeable in the rest of the series was gone, and if you go back and revisit those games, you can no longer look at them in the same way. Effectively, it retroactively made the characters worse.

Actually, anything that does that. I can't think of any examples right away, but I know that isn't the only example and I hate it every time.

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The only one that comes to mind is The Matrix. There are a good few sequels I really can't stand but ignoring them when I rewatch (or in some cases replay) the original is usually fine by me.

As has been already stated though, the way the first movie ends sorta begging for more and then the more being pretty bad makes me feel less inclined to watch the first.

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LeonhartFour posted...
Not physically.

Does anything even referencing her show up? I don't recall anything.

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Oh yes, here's a good one: Bioshock 2.

The main reason is Sofia Lamb. Retconning her into the backstory completely ruins the setting of the first game, and makes Andrew Ryan much less impressive.

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Man I actually liked the second Matrix movie. I don't see why everyone hated it. I mean yeah it was kinda action heavy but a lot of the random bs that made the original charming was still there.

The third one though jeez.

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X-2. Not a bad game on its own but the first one wrapped up their story so well that for them to expand on what happens to the world after end up making Yuna a pop star just felt... weird. Like I get how that could easily happen, but it just felt weird.

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Parasite Eve
The Godfather (kinda, 2 is so close to 1 that they might as well just be equal)
Indiana Jones movies
CSI Series

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Fun reverse example: Persona 3 actively detracts from 4.
**** that class trip. **** everything about it. **** everything said & done during it.

Metroid: Other M

Am I supposed that all those other times Samus is out to blast some alien monstrosity she's such a self-doubting fragile flower that she could be petrified just by the mere sight of Ridley?

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Man I actually liked the second Matrix movie. I don't see why everyone hated it. I mean yeah it was kinda action heavy but a lot of the random bs that made the original charming was still there.

1) The story was a lot less compelling than the story in the first one.
2) I don't think the "random bs" of the original was there at all. They threw the Beaudrillard philosophy out of the window and emphasized on Christian allegories and the like.
3) Less important, but pacing issues. Was that 3 hour dance scene/Neo/Trinity sex scene really necessary? >_>

I'd also have to go with The Matrix, for reasons previously stated.

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Also, X-Men: The Last Stand.

Same deal as The Matrix. X2 ends on a cliffhanger so you can't see it as a standalone movie, and what came after it... ugh.

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From: Mr Lasastryke | #019
Also, X-Men: The Last Stand.

Same deal as The Matrix. X2 ends on a cliffhanger so you can't see it as a standalone movie, and what came after it... ugh.

Oh yeah. Good point. Terrible movie, that.

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From: ScareChan | #014
X-2. Not a bad game on its own but the first one wrapped up their story so well that for them to expand on what happens to the world after end up making Yuna a pop star just felt... weird. Like I get how that could easily happen, but it just felt weird.

I hate X-2 but it doesn't detract from X at all for me. I just ignore it. FFX ended on a very satisfying note.

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Man, I think X2 was far better than the first one. Guess that's just me!

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From: Emporer_Kazbar | #022
Man, I think X2 was far better than the first one. Guess that's just me!

Sadly, you aren't!

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metroid other m
final fantasy X-2
the FFVII spinoffs

How the heck is Other M supposed to detract from earlier games in the series? If anything, it made me like the rest of the series more. I do agree that the reason for Samus' "fragility" is poorly explained in the game itself, but it's extremely easy to justify otherwise (also the game made me feel nostalgic for certain Discovery Kids franchises, but I guess it isn't supposed to have "teen drama" dialogue). Funnily enough, the last few video games I played through all featured strong, unflinching female characters (such as Sheik, Ayla, Ada Wong, and Sarah Kerrigan, in addition to FFVI's troubled female cast).

The only real example I can think of here is that if Brawl didn't exist, Melee would be a god-tier game for me. As is, Brawl easily beats the heart out of Melee in the one area most important for a fighting game (playable character cast), and falls spectacularly short almost everywhere else.

Reverse example: If Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask didn't exist, I'd probably like Twilight Princess a lot more.

Anomaly: Somehow the two Super Mario Galaxy games don't dilute each others' appeal to me all that much.

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From: Lopen | #012
Man I actually liked the second Matrix movie. I don't see why everyone hated it. I mean yeah it was kinda action heavy but a lot of the random bs that made the original charming was still there.

The third one though jeez.

agreed, though I dont' think the third one "ruins the first two" or anything

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Calintares posted...
Metroid: Other M

Am I supposed that all those other times Samus is out to blast some alien monstrosity she's such a self-doubting fragile flower that she could be petrified just by the mere sight of Ridley?

Who wouldn't be extremely afraid if they saw their arch nemesis inexplicably rise from the dead a SIXTH time? I would, for sure.

Right before watching the scene for the first time I was watching a kids' show about dinosaurs from my childhood, however, plus I smile at the sight of ANY dinosaur-esque monster in any video game I play (which I found out when I was playing through Chrono Trigger for the first time a few months ago, plus it's the reason why Mario and Metroid are the two VG franchises that appeal to me the most). There's also the fact of the matter that just mere weeks before I got my hands on Other M, I played through Super Metroid for a second time and defeated Ridley in one try in the most epic dogfight I've ever experienced anywhere, even though it took me many many tries in my first playthrough (that boss fight was the highlight of all my gaming for me, and me doing it late at night after coming back from a school midterm exam probably made things all the sweeter). Of course it made sense for my Samus to break into a PTSD at the sight of someone who took her down to the last energy tank on the last encounter out of...five, and was supposed to be dead no less.

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F.E.A.R.

If I'm less tired later I'll write down some reasons

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Every Tribes game after the first. Pretty much every Tribes game had to be fixed by modding to be brought up to the standards of the series because every single company who has ever worked on Tribes has put their own spin on the series that makes the game inherently not Tribes in the name of "mass appeal". Also, the community is fractured because people can't decide which game is the best. There are probably about 10 different groups in the community, all claiming to have the one true way to play Tribes, and you can add at least two more when any new game comes out.

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Super Mario Galaxy 2


Cause why would I want to play the first one again?

Clearly you didn't like the first one all that much, and are therefore a terrible person.

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Super Mario Galaxy 2


Cause why would I want to play the first one again?

Why wouldn't you? It's better than the sequel, after all.

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That's a laugh and a half.

I bet you think Super Mario 64 is the pinnacle of the series.

pjbasis posted...
Super Mario Galaxy 2


Cause why would I want to play the first one again?

I remember starting a Mario Galaxy playthrough back in March and even though I never came back to it, I forgot briefly forgot there was a sequel.

I don't get why people would never want to play the original Galaxy after Galaxy 2, but then again most people don't prefer the sequel to the original I guess, so when the sequel comes around and it's widely viewed as being superior, most people forget about the original (whereas I usually prefer sequels, for instance I like both Galaxies more than any Mario game aside from Mario 3, and I like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess more than any Zelda game aside from A Link to the Past...yet I prefer Melee to Brawl, oddly enough).

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Haguile posted...
Umineko Chiru

Bang, you are dead.

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Contra: Shattered Soldier.

How to take no fewer than four enjoyable shoot-em-ups and retroactively make their plots utterly pointless for the sake of a single "corrupt government" twist that literally affects nothing of consequence in its own game except the identity of one of the villains.

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From: Liquid Wind | #024
the FFVII spinoffs

this

they're also going to ruin the eventual remake

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Son of the Mask

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Parasite Eve 2 and 3rd Birthday

Doom 3.

At least a little bit.

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I'm gonna open these cans of worms in this thread, hope you all don't mind!

Chrono Cross
Apollo Justice

Both of these games are fine in their own right, particularly Chrono Cross, but by including characters from the previous games detract from the original's resolution. Apollo Justice especially would be a good game (minus 4-3) if Hobonix just... wasn't Phoenix. Chrono Cross makes it impossible to play the original with the same sense of optimism because of what you learn of the fate of some of its characters.

Most sequels can just be ignored, I think of something like Brawl that actually makes me unable to go back and play its predecessor because I'm so used to it.

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Does the prequel trilogy count?

Chronologically, they're sequels.

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It happens all the time with games, when the original game has a strong community, the new game is overall worse, but not quite bad enough that nobody plays it or prefers it, and you end up with a fractured community.

Smash jumps to mind, here.

Fire Emblem 8 kind-of fractured the FE7 community too.

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I agree with Harmonica and Liquid Wind on the FFVII spinoffs. With every prequel, sequel, sidestory, etc. the original story becomes more watered down and it becomes less special.

Chrono Cross and Apollo Justice are both the first things that come to my mind, and I'm surprised only one other person has mentioned them. Whatever you think of them on their own merits, they kind of suck the enjoyment right out of their predecessors. I just choose to believe both of those games are, like, what-if stories, or fan fiction.

In particular, Apollo Justice is a self-insertion fan fic where the writer realized part way through that they couldn't think of anything interesting to happen to their character, so they dragged Wright back on to center stage after unceremoniously booting him off.

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If they had left Phoenix out of Apollo Justice entirely, the game would've been decent. It just would've been kind of bland instead of offensive.

From: Veola | #016
Fun reverse example: Persona 3 actively detracts from 4.
F*** that class trip. F*** everything about it. F*** everything said & done during it.

lol wut? that trip was awesome.

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Highlander: Endgame

My god what an awful twist that movie had.

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