Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 147: "There Can Only Be ONEEEEE"

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greatone10
08/14/11 8:53:00 PM
#151:


I just hope Edge sticks around long enough for Christian to attack him. I think he'd get massive heat destroying his best friend who has an injured neck. Obviously, Edge wouldn't take any bumps, but I think the heat that Christian would get from say, Pillmanizing Edge's neck would help keep him over as a heel while he cycles out of the main event.

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bryans7
08/14/11 8:53:00 PM
#152:


If Big Show is back soon, Christian could always beat him for awhile.

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voltch
08/14/11 8:54:00 PM
#153:


No Taker comebacks.

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Highwind89
08/14/11 8:55:00 PM
#154:


Orton winning is fine. Obviously not what I wanted, but alright. Its interesting to see where christian goes now. And who orton faces next.
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FFDragon
08/14/11 9:00:00 PM
#155:


StealThisSheen posted...
Your initial reaction did come off rather "My favorites didn't win and now I'm mad."

external image

JaKyL25 posted...
I'll agree to disagree on most of the rest of the stuff, but what?

He got every single thing that was coming to him tonight. This was the downfall of his entire character arc.


Don't get me wrong, I get that he's the cowardly heel champ but I just don't understand how we got to this point of just having the title on him so Edge can make fun of him and Orton can throw him through many tables. Like I don't see how Christian can go anywhere but down after this, like I just booked a bad EWR angle and Sophie's now telling me that Christian's overness has tanked. This may be the on match I'm a bit clouded on, but everything else was about as objective as an opinion can get.

JaKyL25 posted...
And now he picks up the pieces and moves onto something else.

What, no rematch clause?

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ScareChan
08/14/11 9:03:00 PM
#156:


I think the lack of depth on smackdown and the Cena/ Punk situation can resolve well in one move. Have Punk and Cena come out tomorrow and say they both deserve rematches. The issue here is that they both have a score to settle between them and for both of them to get rematches someone in the way becomes an issue. You put them in a street fight where the loser leaves Raw. A week or two later you have them show up on smackdown and things can get reverted by the rumble/ draft.

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TVontheRadio
08/14/11 9:06:00 PM
#157:


who else thinks ADR will get treated in this angle the way Miz was treated when the Rock came back and started a feud with Cena

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voltch
08/14/11 9:08:00 PM
#158:


Guys, JoMo beat Miz, this is serious.

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StealThisSheen
08/14/11 9:08:00 PM
#159:


I'm glad you can post gifs instead of admitting you just didn't come off clear with your intentions at all.

"Person A that I wanted to win lost, Person B that I wanted to win lost, Person C that I wanted to win lost, Person D that I wanted to win lost. This is the worst booking ever. Raaagh. Wait, why are you accusing me of being mad that my favorites lost."

EDIT: I mean, let's forget that you didn't mention disliking the count-out ending, for example, and instead just said "Sheamus lost."



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FFDragon
08/14/11 9:11:00 PM
#160:


I have piles of gifs if you would like some more, Ser Highhorserston.

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Wanglicious
08/14/11 9:13:00 PM
#161:


though late on this, all i know about this punk/cena/del rio feud right now is that wwe's earned enough credit to give plenty of leeway when it comes to good or bad possibilities. one thing's for sure though: Del Rio looks terribly weak right now to the top tier of Raw. Punk pinned him clean in like 5 minutes on Raw.

and punk or cena going to SD is pretty bad too. the two should stay on the show together as the two have some great chemistry with each other, both on the mic and in the ring, and neither one should be with Orton. Del Rio was one wrench in things but it's not a bad one - had Del Rio won over either of 'em immediately after the match, bad. if HHH himself interfered directly, bad. Nash as the third party's the ??? to the whole thing. right now HHH's just getting screwed again and again with his trying to fix everything but nothing gets fixed. when he tried, there were 2 champions. now there's a bad finish and Punk doesn't know what's going on. this'll be fun at least for the promo work alone. now sure they could revert it to good guys vs. bad guys, but i don't think they'll go that route. Punk's cashed in MITB twice now, with both times being very opportunistic. how can he fault Del Rio without being a hypocrite there? so i don't think he'll have a problem with Del Rio, but want some answers to what's the deal with Nash popping up and what HHH knows about it.

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StealThisSheen
08/14/11 9:14:00 PM
#162:


Well, at least now you're being silly so I know the actual argument is over!

It only makes sense that we disagree, anyway. You're Nega Me. Or I'm Nega You. There's some negage going on.



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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:14:00 PM
#163:


Don't get me wrong, I get that he's the cowardly heel champ but I just don't understand how we got to this point of just having the title on him so Edge can make fun of him and Orton can throw him through many tables. Like I don't see how Christian can go anywhere but down after this, like I just booked a bad EWR angle and Sophie's now telling me that Christian's overness has tanked. This may be the on match I'm a bit clouded on, but everything else was about as objective as an opinion can get.

One thing I don't like about pro wrestling storyline is the lack of a definitive END to a lot of things, because the show must go on and you have to keep re-using these characters. Tonight, we got what SHOULD BE an end. Christian's character was DEFEATED. I'm not concerned with where he goes from here, because they told me an amazing story with a decisive end where bad karma was punished properly and a villain's downfall reflected his rise, like Macbeth.

What, no rematch clause?
Well yeah but I'm hoping it's in a four-way or something so that the focus isn't on Orton vs. Christian. Maybe we can use it to segue into Christian vs. Sheamus or something.

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FFDragon
08/14/11 9:15:00 PM
#164:


external image

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TheKoolAidShoto
08/14/11 9:15:00 PM
#165:


This is only chapter 2 in a 6-chapter book. This is gonna go on for months and months. That's how these things work.

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GTM
08/14/11 9:16:00 PM
#166:


We don't need Cena in any more loser leaves ____ storylines, please.

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ScareChan
08/14/11 9:19:00 PM
#167:


Rematch should be handled on Smackdown with the stip being last man standing. Give it another 15, 20 minute go at it, end it with a Punt and then have mark Henry come in and attack Orton. Christian is out for a week or so and can come back and feud with Sheamus or someone.

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:19:00 PM
#168:


Yes, that was the way their Smackdown match ended was it not? Except for the steel steps.

And yeah, I added 1/4* just for that. The whole thing ended the way it began, except now instead of that move landing as the conclusion to a fairly fought classic wrestling match, it was the nail in the coffin in the middle of a warfield, because that's where Christian took it.

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Wanglicious
08/14/11 9:21:00 PM
#169:


it's not "person i like", sep.

dragon losing to wade is a problem because he's the MITB guy, Wade isn't. Dragon's the one that's literally 1 move away from being with the belt (as Del Rio proved), but he lost just now. now this serves two functions far as i can tell: 1) it puts Wade into the ME scene again. which is good as that's where he belongs. but you're also risking 2) it makes Dragon look like he can't hang with the ME scene. the feud is obviously not over and it seems clear they'll be pushing this towards a MITB briefcase match. that is the one Dragon needs to win. but Wade also needs to prove himself by beating ME level guys on SD, of which uhh.... is Morrison around? you could try Christian too at this point. it's not a bad angle necessarily, however one thing it did do, without giving any doubts in either direction, is say the MITB winner, your "entry level" ME guy, is inferior to someone else. that would be the problem he's got with that match.

countouts mostly go to nobody tends to like countout finishers at a PPV. on Raw or whatever, sure. a PPV though is kinda lame. again, it's another 'feud to build on' type of match, but those shouldn't belong on WWE's 2nd biggest PPV of the year. granted, it doesn't belong at their No. 1 but it happened there too (unfortunately), so i'm not sure what's going on as to why they're missing that.

diva match needs no mention. that was just bad.

Orton/Christian's fine. it's the expected end, had a fine exclamation mark, and for the love of god means we can stop doing this half year feud already.

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:23:00 PM
#170:


I don't like the idea of any more singles matches between them.

I think the best way to handle it is to have Christian come out on SD demanding his rematch, and then have Henry come out saying he's the one that deserves a title shot (AGAIN mirroring how this all began), and then somehow ending up with Henry in his destructive rampage taking out Christian and "injuring" him for a few weeks or so.

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Panthera
08/14/11 9:24:00 PM
#171:


From: JaKyL25 | #148
He got every single thing that was coming to him tonight. This was the downfall of his entire character arc. This was like the night Punk cashed in on Edge, actually!

Such an amazingly poetic finish too. Brilliant.


Uh, what? No, this is just another example of why this whole story has been terrible. There's no victory or achievement here, because Christian never once looked even remotely competent. He lost every single match except for the tag matches where his partner did the work for him and the match where he won by getting beaten half to death. His entire character got derailed on a whim. They bring out Edge tonight solely to point out to the fans who haven't noticed it yet themselves that Christian has been turned into little more than a terrible parody of 2006/7/8 Edge, flat out calling him boring (which is the worst thing to say in pro wrestling because it doesn't work as an in-kayfabe point, it always has the "you don't belong on TV" undertones to it). The entire story from day 1 has been about making Christian look terrible, so where's the triumph for Orton in beating the guy that's never even challenged him? The villain "getting theirs" only works when there's an actual sense of accomplishment to it.

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:27:00 PM
#172:


Christian got clean-as-a-whistle wins over Sin Cara, IC Champion Ezekiel Jackson, and John Morrison. They're not World Champions or anything but that's not the mark of someone who's "incompetent."

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Wanglicious
08/14/11 9:27:00 PM
#173:


main guy should be Barret right now for Orton. really do feel it's them saying that he should be in the ME scene, and i think that was their initial goal with Sheamus/Barret in the first place before they realized Henry works much better to get a guy over as Barret/Sheamus are both VERY similar in that they can go face tomorrow and it'd work. Barret they wanted to keep heel, and have a guy that works well with him (and everyone granted, but also with some story/history to make it work there), so Dragon. and if you wanna ME boost it, MITB works well on one guy. if they wanted it to be on Barra in the first place, he would've just won it and that'd be that. so really they're elevating both with it.

or at least, they should be. it's pretty straight and works out really nicely. Wade beating Christian would continue the downward spiral of Christian's character while cementing the rising star in Wade. eventually Dragon beats Wade 1 on 1 clean and proves he can hang at the top. enter WM.

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PepsiPlunge
08/14/11 9:28:00 PM
#174:


FFD, if you have a GIF folder somewhere, I demand a link.

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ScareChan
08/14/11 9:28:00 PM
#175:


You can look at this as the feud ender and the LMS as an epilogue very easily. It wraps things up much better and I feel Smackdown tries to do that better than Raw does

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XIII_rocks
08/14/11 9:28:00 PM
#176:


Just thinking - Punk is going to worked-shoot Nash and the kliq into the ground tomorrow. At least I hope he does. He could say to HHH "what's he going to do, poke you in the chest?" stuff like that.

Maybe he won't, but oh man that'd be funny.

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TheKoolAidShoto
08/14/11 9:28:00 PM
#177:


From: AnimeRPGFan | #174
So what did Edge say, exactly?


"Christain, you're my bro, I love you, but you're been a b**** these last few weeks. Cya later."

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AnimeRPGFan
08/14/11 9:29:00 PM
#178:


So what did Edge say, exactly? Just "Lookit you Christian, what happened to you?"

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ScareChan
08/14/11 9:29:00 PM
#179:


From: AnimeRPGFan | #174
So what did Edge say, exactly?




"hey bro stop being a whiny *****"

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Panthera
08/14/11 9:34:00 PM
#180:


From: JaKyL25 | #172
Christian got clean-as-a-whistle wins over Sin Cara, IC Champion Ezekiel Jackson, and John Morrison. They're not World Champions or anything but that's not the mark of someone who's "incompetent."


Pretty much is though, with the state of the current WWE. "IC Champion" doesn't really mean anything, it's used to add hype but in reality, there's an absolutely massive divide between its level and the main event level. I mean, Zeke has had a feud with Cody and Ted and he beat Wade; is that the resume of someone who would pose a threat to a guy like Orton? Not really. Morrison has been R-Truths personal ***** all summer and Sin Cara has one meaningful win to his name (against Sheamus). In theory, yeah, beating the mid card guys should be something, but in practice, if you tell me any of these guys are close to being on Orton's level, I'm going to laugh a bit. And if they're not close enough to Orton to credibly challenge him, beating them doesn't really establish you as a threat to Orton either.

From: AnimeRPGFan | #174
So what did Edge say, exactly? Just "Lookit you Christian, what happened to you?"


More or less "You've become a boring whiny ***** who isn't as good as I was because I had style"

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:36:00 PM
#181:


And to further discuss Panthera's point, yes, the entire point of this feud is that Christian is one step below Randy Orton. The point of this was NEVER to make Christian look like a world beater, or someone who was actually BETTER than Randy Orton. They've gone to extensive lengths to prove over the last 6 months that Christian is great, Christian can beat most guys on the roster, but Christian is not the best. He's very competitive with Orton, but he cannot actually find the winning combination.

Rather, the point of all this was to get crowds to HATE Christian. To see him as an underhanded scum who cared more about winning the belt than he did about ethics or even unwritten rules of the sport. You say that there was no accomplishment in Orton winning, but Christian had the title he always wanted. He didn't give one rat's ass about HOW he won it, all that was important was that HE HAD IT. In Christian's mind, he was WINNING. He got the one thing his heart desired, but to do so he had to sell out each and every last thing he believed in.

So in the end, the title was all he was left with. His title...and his comeuppance. And the one guy on SmackDown that he cannot find a way to defeat.

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Viktor Vaughn
08/14/11 9:38:00 PM
#182:


I'm not too cross about Wade beating DB, just because they can take Bryan's ascent slowly. The "deadline" is Mania. If he's credible by then (and if he still has the briefcase), then he's fine.

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:41:00 PM
#183:


Yeah there's plenty of room for DB angles. A loss would have hurt Wade a lot more.

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TimJab
08/14/11 9:42:00 PM
#184:


From: neonreaper888 | #135
To be the special guest referee. I thought it was very clear that HHH wasn't happy with what happened - do you really think his reactions suggest otherwise?


i didn't watch the match

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Pokewars
08/14/11 9:44:00 PM
#185:


Couldn't possibly let Christian have ONE title defence? Nope. Back to the status quo. They showed Peep signs from the crowd tonight, there were some good Christian chants, but nope. Got to have him as a cowardly heel that looked so weak compared to Orton. F***ing hell. I wanted to see Christian enter the Air Canada Centre in September as the World Champ and the place explode with cheers.

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Panthera
08/14/11 9:46:00 PM
#186:


From: JaKyL25 | #181
And to further discuss Panthera's point, yes, the entire point of this feud is that Christian is one step below Randy Orton. The point of this was NEVER to make Christian look like a world beater, or someone who was actually BETTER than Randy Orton. They've gone to extensive lengths to prove over the last 6 months that Christian is great, Christian can beat most guys on the roster, but Christian is not the best. He's very competitive with Orton, but he cannot actually find the winning combination.


And that's a terrible thing for a feud to be about. It's exactly the same argument about Cena during his worst superman runs, or Hogan - there's no suspense, anticipation or excitement when it's established from beginning to end that one guy is out of his league and can't actually win.

Rather, the point of all this was to get crowds to HATE Christian. To see him as an underhanded scum who cared more about winning the belt than he did about ethics or even unwritten rules of the sport.


Which also makes no sense when this all began with the crowd being super supportive of him for finally winning the title. The crowd was split down the middle during their first two matches, to the point of Christian support being louder than Orton support for periods. Even with Orton still being the more popular overall, actually getting that much support against the guy is crazy. Everyone wanted to support Christian for finally achieving his dream and then refusing to get mad when it was taken away and instead trying to earn it back. So they turned him heel and completely changed his entire personality. The story was already in the gutter then, since any feud that involves a guy doing a complete character 180 is no longer consistent or coherent.

You say that there was no accomplishment in Orton winning, but Christian had the title he always wanted. He didn't give one rat's ass about HOW he won it, all that was important was that HE HAD IT. In Christian's mind, he was WINNING. He got the one thing his heart desired, but to do so he had to sell out each and every last thing he believed in.


Remember when Christians motivation was proving that he deserved to be champion and that he could indeed beat Orton? Remember when he spent a month being the guy who refused to go down the "sell out your beliefs to win" route by staying respectful and vowing to prove himself? Yeah, so do I.

So in the end, the title was all he was left with. His title...and his comeuppance. And the one guy on SmackDown that he cannot find a way to defeat.


You REALLY can't have a "only one guy he can't beat" storyline going when the show right before showed that he's terrified of Sheamus and can't beat him either.

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SmartMuffin
08/14/11 9:50:00 PM
#187:


What's the point of getting Christian majorly over as a heel during his main event feud?

So great, they did it, mission accomplished, everyone hates him.... NOW what is he supposed to do?

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Uglyface2
08/14/11 9:50:00 PM
#188:


Tag.
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XIII_rocks
08/14/11 9:50:00 PM
#189:


Yeah, to be fair, it's sad that Christian never got a title defence. However, from a storytelling perspective it was fine.
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Pokewars
08/14/11 9:51:00 PM
#190:


They've gone to extensive lengths to prove over the last 6 months that Christian is great, Christian can beat most guys on the roster, but Christian is not the best. He's very competitive with Orton, but he cannot actually find the winning combination.

So then who is left for Orton to feud with and ultimately squash? Mark Henry? No one should want this. The matches wouldn't be anywhere near Christian/Orton.

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TimJab
08/14/11 9:51:00 PM
#191:


orton is now a 9 time world champ btw

it's also important to note that, incredibly, this is the fourth time he's lost a world title and regained it in less than a month

this layoff was the longest time in between losing and regaining the title: 28 days

the other three occasions?

2 days, 21 days, and roughly 2 1/2 hours

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TimJab
08/14/11 9:56:00 PM
#192:


what i'm trying to say is that orton's title reigns are getting padded pretty ****ing hard

he's legitimately a 5 time world champ

edit: and one of those title wins was "awarded" to him by mr. mcmahon. so 4 time

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:57:00 PM
#193:


And that's a terrible thing for a feud to be about. It's exactly the same argument about Cena during his worst superman runs, or Hogan - there's no suspense, anticipation or excitement when it's established from beginning to end that one guy is out of his league and can't actually win.

SPOILERS the face will win in the end. The other title match was the one where unpredictability reigned. This was a character arc about Christian. You know he's going to lose in the end the whole time. That's not important. You know that going into pretty much any movie that evil will lose. The point is the journey, and how that journey concludes. I clearly valued it a lot more than you did, for whatever reason.

Which also makes no sense when this all began with the crowd being super supportive of him for finally winning the title. The crowd was split down the middle during their first two matches, to the point of Christian support being louder than Orton support for periods. Even with Orton still being the more popular overall, actually getting that much support against the guy is crazy. Everyone wanted to support Christian for finally achieving his dream and then refusing to get mad when it was taken away and instead trying to earn it back. So they turned him heel and completely changed his entire personality. The story was already in the gutter then, since any feud that involves a guy doing a complete character 180 is no longer consistent or coherent.

I think you're looking at Christian's character in the short term. Historically, he's always been the guy we saw the last couple months, except when things are going his way. He has NEVER handled setbacks well at all.

Now, granted, this DOES involve Randy Orton potentially being out of character a lot, but at least this story is not about him. He's the antagonist (in the sense that he's the opposing force to the main character, not that he's the bad guy), and at least when push comes to shove he's the same Orton as ever.

Remember when Christians motivation was proving that he deserved to be champion and that he could indeed beat Orton? Remember when he spent a month being the guy who refused to go down the "sell out your beliefs to win" route by staying respectful and vowing to prove himself? Yeah, so do I.

No, I don't. I remember when Christian SAID that those were his motivations. I even believe that, as long as he was able to still get the title back, he wouldn't choose to violate them. But eventually he had to. He had a choice between morality and the Championship once his rematch well ran dry, and he chose the gold.

You REALLY can't have a "only one guy he can't beat" storyline going when the show right before showed that he's terrified of Sheamus and can't beat him either.

Fair enough, I actually haven't seen SD this week yet.

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GTM
08/14/11 9:57:00 PM
#194:


Yeah, we definitely need longer Orton reigns, RATINGS

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SmartMuffin
08/14/11 9:58:00 PM
#195:


Eh, I don't think this Friday was so much "he's terrified of Sheamus and can't beat him" as it was "he's so concerned about Orton on Sunday he sees the match with Sheamus as pointless and having nothing to gain from it"

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 9:58:00 PM
#196:


What's the point of getting Christian majorly over as a heel during his main event feud?

So great, they did it, mission accomplished, everyone hates him.... NOW what is he supposed to do?


Get other people over. Daniel Bryan and Sheamus come to mind.

So then who is left for Orton to feud with and ultimately squash? Mark Henry? No one should want this. The matches wouldn't be anywhere near Christian/Orton.

Wade Barrett, and I'm hoping that's the HiaC match, because Orton vs. Henry is intriguing but I sure as hell don't want it in the cell.

I just made a pun I think.

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GTM
08/14/11 10:00:00 PM
#197:


Reading Jakyl's posts just reminds me of this commercial



except replace hockey with wrestling

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JaKyL25
08/14/11 10:02:00 PM
#198:


Yeah, I'm not kidding, I felt like tonight's No DQ match was a classic, and I got a real Macbeth vs. Macduff vibe from the match after Edge abandoned Christian.

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Panthera
08/14/11 10:02:00 PM
#199:


From: JaKyL25 | #193
SPOILERS the face will win in the end. The other title match was the one where unpredictability reigned. This was a character arc about Christian. You know he's going to lose in the end the whole time. That's not important. You know that going into pretty much any movie that evil will lose. The point is the journey, and how that journey concludes. I clearly valued it a lot more than you did, for whatever reason.


I'd hazard a guess that I care more about the journey than you do if I'm the one annoyed by how the journey itself was never able to convince me to believe in it (as in, to doubt Orton would win; we knew he would, but a good story draws you in and makes you feel the suspense of wondering if it might not) and you're the one who is content because it ended in a way you like <_< Not meant to be dismissive or anything, but really, you're the one praising it for the ending, I'm the one criticizing it for the middle.

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TimJab
08/14/11 10:03:00 PM
#200:


and another one of his titles was won in a russo-riffic 6 man tag. he did legitimately pin triple h though IIRC.

his second wwe title reign was using his rematch clause from losing the title he was awarded, so that's not really legit

and he got the title shot against christian from winning a fan reaction poll against two heels

really his only legitimately won championship (that can't be categorized at stat-padding) is his first world title win against benoit, and in wwe's eyes that match never happened

hmmmm

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