Board 8 > So about this anti-streaming bill.

(+) Yeah! (+)

If it passes does this effectively kill things like EVO or is this more a stop stealing movie/tv kind of thing?

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I think its supposed to be a stop movie/tv thing but its got people who stream games in a panic since they'd be guilty too

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so team spooky and level up gaming would be totally ruined because they wouldn't be allowed to stream footage of people playing games?

I haven't heard of this bill.

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Eff_Dee

That's dumb. There's a difference between something static like film and something dynamic like video games.

Plus I like watching SRL and my fightin' game tournaments.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...
I haven't heard of this bill.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s112-978

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o_O I didn't even think about Speed Runs Live

holy lame this could be very very lame.

Link to the proposed bill?

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Eff_Dee

4 second ninja'd >_<''

reading it

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Eff_Dee

yeah, I honestly don't foresee anything happening to EVO and such even if this passes. It gives capcom good press for their games, and the actual government won't take action unless prompted I think.

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Well maybe not EVO because that thing is huge and actually sponsored by Capcom (I think), but yeah things like Wednesday Night Fights or anything that Spooky streams would be demolished and SpeedRunsLive would become a criminal enterprise for trying to get 120 stars in under and hour and fifty minutes.

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Don't worry folks, big government regulations are only here to protect us!

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Jiano...a criminal...

"AAAASSS"

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As a streamer, I have to say one thing.

F*** this bill.

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Zachnorn
Everything = overrated.

Oh I agree, this would kill SRL and such if it passes and is enforced. I just don't really see it getting enforced, really. But a lot of people probably wouldn't take the chance anyway so it might just kill it anyway.

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"what are you in for"

"trying to cut the 1:50 live"

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Even if some people would do it anyway, I would imagine that it could get the websites in trouble. I'm also sure that sites like UStream would ban people for broadcasting games, just like how they ban people for broadcasting movies (assumption, but I would imagine they do).

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Zachnorn
Everything = overrated.

How in the world would you explain to your cellmate that you're in for five years from Ocarina of Time Bingo?

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It'd be hard at first FFD, but I'm sure you could come up with a way within 5 years

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This wouldn't even make any sense. Watching someone play a game in no way replicates actually playing the game yourself, it's a totally different situation than movies or TV. If they're really trying to apply this to gaming, they're horribly out of touch.

The government tends to be made up of old people a generation behind, yes.

It's not that they're trying to apply this specifically to video games, but video games happen to fall under the excruciatingly large blanket of 'copyrighted work.'

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Why would I buy the new Legend of Zelda game when I could just watch someone play it? After a few years they should start playing runthroughs of old video games on TV like they do with movies.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

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skull

So what about reviews? I admit that I haven't heard much of this bill, only the basics, but would it apply to, say, Giant Bomb Quick Looks? I hope not. I love those things.

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As written, yeah it would.

Presumably video game companies could sell licenses to stream their works much like film studios broker TV rights and whatnot. But that would require a review site to purchase a license from each company they do a review of.

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Guys do you know how many ****ing bills are proposed each day?

Start *****ing once it gets passed (spoilers: it won't)

Also, sure the government is made up of old fogies who are behind the times, but if the recent violent video games thing is any indication, the people at the top, the ones with the final power, are really damn smart and wouldn't let **** like this fly.

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Rough day, fool?

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This most likely won't affect streaming video game runs and such. If VG IP holders cared so much, you'd see a lot more DMCA notices for those sites in the present day, and yet they rarely take action, so I doubt the government would bother anything more. They're too busy going after movie and sports streaming sites to do the bidding of their masters in Hollywood.

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FreakinLincoln posted...
So what about reviews? I admit that I haven't heard much of this bill, only the basics, but would it apply to, say, Giant Bomb Quick Looks? I hope not. I love those things.

Reviews are covered under fair use. Hell most speed runs and things like streaming tournaments are covered under fair use.

This bill is bad for a lot of reasons, but as far as streaming gaming, I think people are getting too ahead of themselves and jumping into panic.

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Well in my effort to find out more about this, I just read an article by UltraDavid who is a lawyer specializing in copyright law and fighting game person who thinks it would be bad news for streaming tournaments. But we'll just have to wait and see how it goes, I suppose.

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This would be terrible for The Speed Gamers who actually do good things.

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well, this doesn't apply to non-US so woo?

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-FFDragon- posted...
Well in my effort to find out more about this, I just read an article by UltraDavid who is a lawyer specializing in copyright law and fighting game person who thinks it would be bad news for streaming tournaments. But we'll just have to wait and see how it goes, I suppose.

I'm not gonna pretend to say I know more than him on the matter, but I have my doubts of the effect given that yo usually see these things stream via UStream, or Justin or even YT at times, all of which are sites that must comply with DMCA notices. If VG IP holders were so adamant against streaming tournaments, you'd see them getting pulled off these sites a lore more often already.

Again, not gonna deny it could happen, but for the moment, seems too much in the "what if" territory to jump to conclusions.

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I think a big part of the problem is that once they start attaching criminal penalties to things, they no longer have to wait for the copyright holder to raise a complaint about it, they could just go off and start arresting people on their own. Now how likely that is up for debate (not very likely) but it's still like playing russian roulette every time you'd stream though.

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From: Forceful_Dragon | #003
so team spooky and level up gaming would be totally ruined because they wouldn't be allowed to stream footage of people playing games?

According to Capcom's Vice President, who fully endorse things like the Evo Streaming...no, actually.

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-FFDragon- posted...
I think a big part of the problem is that once they start attaching criminal penalties to things, they no longer have to wait for the copyright holder to raise a complaint about it, they could just go off and start arresting people on their own. Now how likely that is up for debate (not very likely) but it's still like playing russian roulette every time you'd stream though.

As a possible doomsday scenario, mayhaps...but lets be honest, you got music, movies, sports streaming....I honestly think an untelevised Street Fighter 4 tournament is pretty much at the bottom of the list of targets ICE would be going after. There's also the whole "guilty of purposely trying to infringe" which is not as easy to prove with that as it is with a TV or sports game feed.

Now streaming a TV feed of someone broadcasting a tournament...that would be more likely.



But I'm also in agreement that the wording of the bill needs to be f***ing fixed and made more clear who the targets are. I don't trust the senators telling us "Oh, don't worry. We'll only use this against really, really bad guys..."

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UltraDavid actually wrote a pretty good article on this. It's worth a read.

http://shoryuken.com/2011/06/29/trolling-the-stream-by-ultradavid/

He seems to be afraid of this bill because it actually has a good chance of passing, so that's balls of the community. He makes excellent points about the idiocy of TV companies for trying to stuff new technology instead of trying to follow the money.

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Not taking it.

That was the article I was talking about before, yeah.

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Yeah, UltraDavid appears to have the most thorough understanding of this bill out of anyone I know. From what I've read, it simply seems like the bill is terribly worded. For instance, a person who films their child singing a karaoke version of a pop song and uploads it to Youtube would be in violation of this bill, as is. It just has a huge need to be totally revised.

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Here's a form that I filled out yesterday. It only takes a few seconds, and seems to cover what it needs to cover.
http://act.demandprogress.org/letter/ten_strikes?akid=700.450896.5hVZPC&rd=1&t=1

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MrSmartGuy posted...
Yeah, UltraDavid appears to have the most thorough understanding of this bill out of anyone I know. From what I've read, it simply seems like the bill is terribly worded. For instance, a person who films their child singing a karaoke version of a pop song and uploads it to Youtube would be in violation of this bill, as is. It just has a huge need to be totally revised.

That's pretty much the size of it. The bill is meant to stop the live streaming of television and movies, which is silly enough on its own, since TV companies could easily hop on the money train if they weren't stuck in the past, but it's worded so poorly that if affects pretty much everything, from music to video games streams. It's an incredibly dangerous bill when it comes to internet freedoms.

Oh, and of course another gigantic problem is handing control over handling cases of such copyright infringement to the government. So even if Capcom was completely fine with WNF streams, and they are, it wouldn't matter. The government is allowed to swoop in at any time and take the streamers to jail.

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Not taking it.

I'm still really skeptic about the extremes some are arriving to, mainly because most video game streams like lets plays or commenting already could be considered infringement if companies wanted and you could already be taken to court. The bill isn't magically making it illegal now, it already IS illegal. Its just that in cases when large amounts of profit are involved, it can be considered a felony.

I honestly doubt companies think they're losing much on YT videos since they barely send out DMCAs to sites like YT or Justin in the first place (something that would be far less costly and easier to do than all the necessary expenses require to gather all the evidence on monitary gains and intent to infringe and overcome the higher burden of proof requirements in a criminal case)

This isn't like TV and Music, where the companies are so adamant at getting anything taken down in minutes of it going up. So I honestly don't expect these extended scenarios except in cases where there's large amount of money involved.

Once again, I can't speak for certain, and I agree the bill is badly worded and really could use a tune up, but I'm not so sure to jump the hurdle so quickly.


On the bright side, at the very least all this commotion and outrage might end up going viral far enough so that congress actually HAS to take notice and mayhaps fix the damn bill. (because like it or not, that thing is gonna pass one way or the other so the best we can do is limit the damage)

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It's making it criminal now. Companies could always come after civil damages, but now there is jailtime involved.

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Government is most likely not just gonna go after small fries. Building a case on these guys is pretty extensive and costly, specially when dealing with Lets Plays that barely pull any views. Going through records, expenses, intent to infringe...when a freaking DMCA would suffice.

And come on, ICE's gonna be too busy going after movie and tv streams to bother with random game videos.


But again, if they fix the language, all the better.

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From: -FFDragon- | #041
It's making it criminal now. Companies could always come after civil damages, but now there is jailtime involved.

You've said this a few times already, Keno does not appear to be listening.

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Eff_Dee

Jailtime can only result from criminal prosecution, which can only be carried out by the government. My point is, I doubt it'll come to that for small players. I reiterate that I would prefer if the bill was fixed and what is being targeted would be made clearer. I'm just expressing my doubt at doomsday scenarios like no more streaming ever.

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"Opinions are like butts, little girl. Everyone's got one and nobody thinks their's stink." -Lunar 2:EB
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Talking about gaming videos. Yes I know the possible damage in the music and movies dept. hence why I do want the language fixed.

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"Opinions are like butts, little girl. Everyone's got one and nobody thinks their's stink." -Lunar 2:EB
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Guys, the IP holder would still have to claim infringement. This won't affect speed runners or LPers or top-notch players. Blizzard would throw a ****-fit if some government douche bag started shutting down SC2 streams because it's free publicity for them. The same goes for a lot of others. No one is going to go around enforcing copyrights in place of their holders, because that's as much a violation of their rights as them not being able to do so if they wish. The government can't say "too bad, you can't raise public interest in your product this way because the law says this can't be done" if it's the copyright holder's product. The only way this gets applied to games is either if footage of an unreleased game gets leaked or the company is run by a gigantic douche that thinks they can earn money from "official" streams.

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Keno316 posted...
Talking about gaming videos. Yes I know the possible damage in the music and movies dept. hence why I do want the language fixed.

Not even remotely his point.

During the era of Limewire and Napster, the RIAA's methods of dealing with piracy were, at best, erratic and were perfect horror stories. While it's true that not everyone who downloads music actually was charged for their crimes, the RIAA is infamous for coming down on minor offenses with all of their might, even when the offender is... well...

Oh you don't want to mess
With the R I Double A
They'll sue you if you burn that CD-R.
It doesn't matter if you're a grandma
Or a seven year old girl
They'll treat you like the evil, hard-bitten criminal scum you are. -- Weird Al Yankovic, "Don't Download This Song"

Anti Streaming Bill?


Can someone tell me what it forbids, in plain English?

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Streaming any copyrighted work.

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