Current Events > Evil Races are Bad Game Design

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymUEPKTEQaQ

Lord of the Rings fans are shook

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dislikes tell you all you need to know

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I mean, it's not really wrong.

In things like DnD with orcs, drow etc they were all designed to just have something the players could kill without feeling bad and questioning "Why are we going and wholesale slaughtering X race" but when you actually think about it beyond that it gets very iffy. And drow are their own massive issue on top of that.

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"it's bad game design if developers don't allow players to decide if they think minorities are comparable to orcs"


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I had an overwhelming sense of guilt when I played Paper Mario at age 19 and learned that good koopas and goombas existed. I'd been killing them for years and never thought about the ethics of squashing turtles and mushrooms on sight.

Temporal posted...

dislikes tell you all you need to know

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There can certainly be complexity in "evil" races due to cultural or societal differences but, when you're just designing cannon fodder, it doesn't really matter. It's like saying not all German soldiers were evil or Nazi's in WWII. You'd be correct but the iconography of a German soldier is used as short hand for bad guy in fiction and everyone knows what you're talking about. Now,m if you're talking about some hivemind alien swarm race or literal demons created by Satan culture doesn't really come into play. Complex villains are certainly more interesting but cannon fodder is still good game design.

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Wow that video is super insensitive

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In the end, if the AI attacks first, alls fair in my book.

What I like about Zelda is how they avoided making the Gerudo out as the "evil" race just because Ganondorf is one.

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When something comes out and is so absurdly bad it unites the internet to shit on it, that is truly a thing of beauty.

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Temporal posted...

dislikes tell you all you need to know

Do these gamers still hatewatch Extra Credits just to dislike every video that talks about social issues?

Didnt watch the video but not every game has or needs a complex story or villains.

Durrr

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Temporal posted...

dislikes tell you all you need to know

Appeal to popularity fallacy

Background_Guy posted...

Do these gamers still hatewatch Extra Credits just to dislike every video that talks about social issues?

You probably think it's ok to liken orcs to black people. The video is indefensible.

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Extra Credits started out with good intentions but they ran out of intelligent things to say on the subject of game design years ago and instead of closing up shop they just started posting any thought that came into their heads no matter how idiotic it might be.

Anyway I'm not giving them the satisfaction of adding to their view count just so I can go in and give a dislike that Youtube thinks is beneficial.

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WilliamPorygon posted...

they ran out of intelligent things to say -- years ago and instead of closing up shop they just started posting any thought that came into their heads no matter how idiotic it might be.

that describes like 99% of the internet

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

You probably think it's ok to liken orcs to black people. The video is indefensible.

Are you mentally well, sir?

Background_Guy posted...

Are you mentally well, sir?

Are you, or did you just came to defend the video without watching it?

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Are you, or did you just came to defend the video without watching it?

What's up your butt?

It is bad game design. It lets the player kill without thinking about what they are killing and why. I have always had issues with this. If something is wearing clothes they means they are more then just some mindless beast. And the player just mow thru them. Kind of like how in so many games and movies the bad guys wear mask. It it to take away their humanity.

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YourLovelyTina posted...

What I like about Zelda is how they avoided making the Gerudo out as the "evil" race just because Ganondorf is one.

Legend of Zelda: Brown women are sexy. Brown men are evil.

specialkid8 posted...

or literal demons created by Satan culture doesn't really come into play

That's actually an unfair characterization. The vast majority of Judeo-Christian demonology is actually the gods and spirits of other cultures that they made monsters out of.

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I turned it off when they tried to imply that pit bulls aren't a violent breed of dog.

It might be problematic but bad game design? I dunno about that.


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Doe posted...

It might be problematic but bad game design? I dunno about that.

I'd call it lazy game design potentially. Not actually looked at the video in question, but "bad guy, kill, don't think" is used a lot and ultimately quite lazy as they don't want you to think as it often starts to fall apart when you do.

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Temporal posted...

dislikes tell you all you need to know

Dislikes from people who didn't watch it don't really say much.

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Esrac posted...

I turned it off when they tried to imply that pit bulls aren't a violent breed of dog.

You have evidence of this or are you just using feelings?

Doe posted...

It might be problematic but bad game design? I dunno about that.

The very first thing the video goes is explain how it's not about it being problematic. I appreciate that it's sticking to actual, technical game design.

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Jeez. Is the pandemic making people dumber, or have so many people always argued at a title?

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Guide posted...

Jeez. Is the pandemic making people dumber, or have so many people always argued at a title?

People don't read articles, much less watch videos

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Joel95 posted...

You have evidence of this or are you just using feelings?

You may as well change it back to "Yikes.", because I'm not playing the stupid internet debate game that never convinces anyone of anything.

esrac feels it important to having easy targets to be mad about, regardless of whether or not he understands. Pay him no mind unless you want to bait out a melty.

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Guide posted...

esrac feels it important to having easy targets to be mad about, regardless of whether or not he understands. Pay him no mind unless you want to bait out a melty.

Who do I look like to you?

Imagine getting mad at dumb shit on the internet.

Yes, like that.

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I wish we could have talked it out with the zombies and lickers in resident evil.

Oh wow, haven't thought about Extra Credits since Dan Floyd left and the creator got metoo'd.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

You probably think it's ok to liken orcs to black people. The video is indefensible.

aside from that one cartoon image and its timing, the rest of the video was fine and on point.

bobbaaay posted...

aside from that one cartoon image and its timing, the rest of the video was fine and on point.

The image is an example of what he said during it, but you won't get that through to farquad. He just likes to stir shit.

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Imagine dropping a discussion on game design because they implied that pit bulls aren't an inherently violent breed.

Imagine holding onto that belief so firmly that you just shut your ears.

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It really depends tbh. Evil races essentially fill the same function as monsters. You dont *need* to make Orcs any more complex than kobolds or marlboros or moblins.

Moral diversity in traditionally evil archetypes is nice, but not necessary. I only get annoyed when its like...Slytherin Syndrome lol.

(Harry Potter spoilers)
-Harry was almost a Slytherin, so they cant be all evil! Wait...thats only because a piece of Voldemorts soul was in Harry.

-Hey, theyre infiltrating the Slytherin dorms! And of course theyre all assholes.

-Its the final battle! Students against death eaters! And every single Slytherin ran away

Or when theyre all evil, except like...one super special exception, and that exception just to sort of proves the rule instead of adding complexity

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It says way more about you if your first thought is comparing a fantasy species to a group of real people than it does about the game.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

It says way more about you if your first thought is comparing a fantasy species to a group of real people than it does about the game.

Also worth noting, the subtitles are wrong, they said malevolent.

They also said how the comparison is completely wrong and very disproven by science, but try again.

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Didn't watch the video but I like the idea of there being good and bad in every fantasy race.

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Guide posted...

They also said how the comparison is completely wrong and very disproven by science, but try again.

"This comparison we drew ourselves apropos is nothing is wrong. Let's give ourselves a pat in the back"

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Guide posted...

They also said how the comparison is completely wrong and very disproven by science, but try again.

Do you really need a scientific explanation to see that comparing a fictional made up monster to black people is fucking dumb?

LordFarquad1312 posted...

"This comparison we drew ourselves apropos is nothing is wrong. Let's give ourselves a pat in the back"

No one said that. You know that, though.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

It says way more about you if your first thought is comparing a fantasy species to a group of real people than it does about the game.

Also worth noting, the subtitles are wrong, they said malevolent.

That orc has serious moobage.

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