Poll of the Day > Avengers Endgame was disappointing :( *Massive Spoilers

(+) Yeah! (+)

I watched infinity war and was amazed at how it ended, the battle was great too

People said Endgame was better (online reviews, had better scores, albeit slightly better) I was so amped to see it

The time travel aspect wasnt what bothered me, it was the final battle... Iron man dying was random and the movie really only got intense with just 45 minutes left :/

However, I will give it to Strange for telling Iron Man the truth If I told you what happened, it wont happen I think getting that statement after the movie ended made it a bit better :)

just my 2 cents, it was good but I dont see how it was better than Infinity War :/

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I agree Infinity War was better between the two

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mastermix3000 posted...

People said Endgame was better (online reviews, had better scores, albeit slightly better) I was so amped to see it

I'm not sure I heard anybody say that and, after seeing EG, I can understand why I didn't hear anybody say that.

mastermix3000 posted...

Iron man dying was random

Not really, considering we saw what happened to other people throughout the series who either used or tried to use Infinity Stones. You'd have to be superhuman to channel the energy without it killing you and even then you could wind up hurt like Hulk. Iron Man is a superhero, but he's also just a normal human in a suit of armor.

mastermix3000 posted...

The time travel aspect wasnt what bothered me

Even though so much contradicts itself?

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i loved them both, ok?

but they were also a perfect out for me to follow the MCU as closely as i do. after this final season of agents of shield, i think i'm done with trying to consume all of it. i'll watch a new doctor strange or spider-man movie, or any of the characters that matter. but the wanda-vision show? captain marvel? whatever the fuck the eternals is? all the other filler bs? no thanks. it was fun the first time, but i'm not up for another 10+ years of it, ok?

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Iron Man dying was pretty much the climax of his character arc building since at least Avengers 1.

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Yeah, I had to explain to my wife's niece about why Dr. Strange held up his index finger while looking at Tony

I enjoyed IW over EG too even thou, despite what the guys behind the movie(s) say, were 2 separate movies

IW was like this *flex muscles*, EG was like this *pounds chest where heart is*

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I liked it a lot! My favorite scene was when Iron Man and Captain America were finally reunited probably.
:D

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Blightzkrieg posted...

Iron Man dying was pretty much the climax of his character arc building since at least Avengers 1.

more like since the first iron man movie

it was being set up since the beginning

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Best scene for me is Captain having Mjolnir and Thors face "I knew it"

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imo Thanos got nerfed in Endgame and Infinity War was a better movie overall

Also literally no one managed to beat the psychic evil guy

Avengers only won by the power of plot armor


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Wanded posted...

imo Thanos got nerfed in Endgame and Infinity War was a better movie overall

Also literally no one managed to beat the psychic evil guy

Avengers only won by the power of plot armor

pretty sure tony and peter beat him


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Game_Grumps posted...

pretty sure tony and peter beat him

They didn't beat him head to head, they opened a hole in his spaceship making him fly into space, it was a cheap shot

Also i see no reason why Thanos's forces couldn't just pick him up or he himself used his powers to get back to the ship

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Wanded posted...

They didn't beat him head to head, they opened a hole in his spaceship making him fly into space, it was a cheap shot

Lmao this cant be a real post

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Wanded posted...

They didn't beat him head to head, they opened a hole in his spaceship making him fly into space, it was a cheap shot

Also i see no reason why Thanos's forces couldn't just pick him up or he himself used his powers to get back to the ship

Maybe he was dead already. He's an alien so we don't know his biology.

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Wanded posted...

imo Thanos got nerfed in Endgame and Infinity War was a better movie overall

I felt the same way as well

Wanded posted...

Avengers only won by the power of plot armor

Yea :(

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Didn't iron man die in like every one of his movies/avenger movies or something?

Like in the first one everyone thinks he's dead when he's abducted, and in the second he like goes under water or something, and in the first avengers everyone thinks he's stuck in space on the other side of the hole etc.

I mean, him being thought dead is normal for the movies.

He'll probably pop back up in avengers 4.

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Mead posted...

I agree Infinity War was better between the two

Everyone looks at me like they wanna beat the shit out me whenever I say this but infinity war was definitely better

and honestly endgame kinda dragged on a little bit in my opinion

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FatalAccident posted...

and honestly endgame kinda dragged on a little bit in my opinion

I definitely don't even think it dragged on, they just spent a lot of time on setting up for the final battle, than actually fighting Thanos/saving the universe, way more time than they should

I wanted more in the end, but got a funeral scene with everyone :/


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Mead posted...

Lmao this cant be a real post

why

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Wanded posted...

They didn't beat him head to head, they opened a hole in his spaceship making him fly into space, it was a cheap shot

And Ebony Maw didn't beat them in the first place, he just captured Dr. Strange and ran (while using his power for cheap shots). The only time he actually stayed around for a fight he ended up getting killed. That's not even counting the fact that EM & Cull Obsidian only had an advantage in that fight because Bruce wasn't able to Hulk.

Then, on the other side, you have Vision who lost due to being repeatedly ambushed, all of which was a "cheap shot." In fact, their whole strategy the second time around involved luring Scarlet Witch away so Corvus could ambush an already injured Vision who was in the middle of an operation.

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Wanded posted...

They didn't beat him head to head, they opened a hole in his spaceship making him fly into space, it was a cheap shot

Also i see no reason why Thanos's forces couldn't just pick him up or he himself used his powers to get back to the ship

thats called beating him dude


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Wanded posted...

imo Thanos got nerfed in Endgame

I mean, he didn't have any Infinity Stones in Endgame, so that makes sense. He still managed to go head-to-head with all of The Avengers' strongest and ultimately only lost because Ironman managed to get the stones away from him for the few seconds he needed to write Thanos out of existence. It's not like he wasn't a serious threat, he was just a threat that could actually be faced in open combat instead of being so omnipotent that the only way to fight him was to outsmart and outmanoeuvre him.

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wolfy42 posted...

Didn't iron man die in like every one of his movies/avenger movies or something?

Like in the first one everyone thinks he's dead when he's abducted, and in the second he like goes under water or something, and in the first avengers everyone thinks he's stuck in space on the other side of the hole etc.

I mean, him being thought dead is normal for the movies.

He'll probably pop back up in avengers 4.

Do you know what you're saying?

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adjl posted...

I mean, he didn't have any Infinity Stones in Endgame, so that makes sense. He still managed to go head-to-head with all of The Avengers' strongest and ultimately only lost because Ironman managed to get the stones away from him for the few seconds he needed to write Thanos out of existence. It's not like he wasn't a serious threat, he was just a threat that could actually be faced in open combat instead of being so omnipotent that the only way to fight him was to outsmart and outmanoeuvre him.

I mean, Thanos ktfo of Hulk in IW easy peasy, and yet he's struggling with Captain with a hammer, idk, he's kinda a little nerfed

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darcandkharg31 posted...

I mean, Thanos ktfo of Hulk in IW easy peasy, and yet he's struggling with Captain with a hammer, idk, he's kinda a little nerfed

He beat the shit out of cap

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mastertask95 posted...

He beat the shit out of cap

Eventually, Cap was kinda kicking his ass there a minute.

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darcandkharg31 posted...

I mean, Thanos ktfo of Hulk in IW easy peasy, and yet he's struggling with Captain with a hammer, idk, he's kinda a little nerfed

He had 1-2 stones at the beginning of IW (I don't actually remember if he socketed the second one before or after fighting Hulk). That makes a difference.

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darcandkharg31 posted...

Eventually, Cap was kinda kicking his ass there a minute.

Cap had the element of surprise. Once Thanos realized what was going on, he easily handled Cap and rendered him defenseless. All that after defeating Iron Man and Thor.

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adjl posted...

He had 1-2 stones at the beginning of IW (I don't actually remember if he socketed the second one before or after fighting Hulk). That makes a difference.

I was just looking up what stones he had and there's the directors saying he wasn't even using the stones.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/avengers-infinity-war-how-thanos-beat-hulk/

idk, it's a movie anyways, not like it makes much of a difference, the story is written lulz.

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darcandkharg31 posted...

I was just looking up what stones he had and there's the directors saying he wasn't even using the stones.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/avengers-infinity-war-how-thanos-beat-hulk/

idk, it's a movie anyways, not like it makes much of a difference, the story is written lulz.

That explanation also makes sense. Hulk isn't exactly a competent fighter, he's just strong enough to not need competency most of the time. Matched up against somebody similarly strong who is competent, he's not going to have a good time. Meanwhile, Cap is a very competent fighter and the hammer in question was Mjolnir, which does a lot to level the playing field as far as raw power goes, hence he was able to do a better job of holding his own.

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mastermix3000 posted...

Iron man dying was random

Oh please. Everyone was expecting either Iron Man, Captain America, OR both Iron Man AND Captain America to die. (They basically killed off Captain America without actually killing him as he presumably dies of old age off-screen.) Some people thought Thor would be written out too since he was too OP with Stormbreaker at the end of Infinity War. (Instead, they just found a way to weaken him.)

And it was very much foreshadowed. Doctor Strange giving Thanos the Time Stone to spare Tony's life very much cemented that he was important in defeating Thanos.

They were never going to run with Thanos and NOT have major permanent deaths. He is for all intents and purposes the ultimate Marvel villain. (Not the STRONGEST mind you, but even then he's won against the likes of Galactus in the comics before by outsmarting them.) NOT someone they only ran with because they lacked the rights to other villains. (Doctor Doom actually joined up with the remaining heroes to fight Thanos in the comic storyline where he had the Infinity Stones.)

Wanded posted...

imo Thanos got nerfed in Endgame

What do ya mean Thanos with no Infinity Stones is weaker than Thanos with 4 Infinity Stones on Titan, and 5 Infinity Stones when he stomped everyone in Wakanda?!

Also I think people forget that Scarlet Witch got her powers directly from an Infinity Stone to begin with, was able to DESTROY said Infinity Stone, and was able to push Thanos with 5 Infinity Stones back while she was destroying said Infinity Stone. She's one of the most powerful Earth based characters in the comics to begin with. She just got nerfed for the movies less than everyone else.
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mastermix3000 posted...

People said Endgame was better

I have never heard anyone with this opinion.
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adjl posted...

He still managed to go head-to-head with all of The Avengers' strongest and ultimately only lost because Ironman managed to get the stones away from him for the few seconds he needed to write Thanos out of existence. It's not like he wasn't a serious threat, he was just a threat that could actually be faced in open combat instead of being so omnipotent that the only way to fight him was to outsmart and outmanoeuvre him.

Pretty sure Captain Marysue could have solo'd him without the stones.

darcandkharg31 posted...

Eventually, Cap was kinda kicking his ass there a minute.

...and Hulk got some hits in at first before Thanos overpowered him. And bear in mind that Mjolnir would have augmented Cap's strength and Cap's advantage was his greater agility and martial prowess, whereas Hulk merely relies on brute force and is less maneuverable.

emagdnE posted...

Oh please. Everyone was expecting either Iron Man, Captain America, OR both Iron Man AND Captain America to die. (They basically killed off Captain America without actually killing him as he presumably dies of old age off-screen.) Some people thought Thor would be written out too since he was too OP with Stormbreaker at the end of Infinity War. (Instead, they just found a way to weaken him.)

Yeah, Cap's ending was hella bullshit.

emagdnE posted...

They were never going to run with Thanos and NOT have major permanent deaths. He is for all intents and purposes the ultimate Marvel villain.

He ranks up there, but... no, not really. He's among the strongest villains and has been the focus of multiple team-ups, but the same is true of a lot of other villains, especially ones who also had power-ups. He's certainly one of the more famous examples, but you have other characters in his same boat like Beyonder who headlined the Secret Wars storylines which are every bit as well-known as the Infinity Gems arcs.

emagdnE posted...

(Doctor Doom actually joined up with the remaining heroes to fight Thanos in the comic storyline where he had the Infinity Stones.)

Which is a meaningless statement because anybody with the Infinity Gems is a threat because the gems themselves are the threat. And there are a *lot* of characters who can use the Infinity Gems, including lesser-knowns like Hood who used two of the gems. Honestly, you could put any major Marvel villain in Thanos's slot if you gave them the Infinity Gems.

emagdnE posted...

Also I think people forget that Scarlet Witch got her powers directly from an Infinity Stone to begin with, was able to DESTROY said Infinity Stone, and was able to push Thanos with 5 Infinity Stones back while she was destroying said Infinity Stone. She's one of the most powerful Earth based characters in the comics to begin with. She just got nerfed for the movies less than everyone else.

No kidding. In the comics, she could subsconsciously rewrite reality on a whim and was powerful enough to depower almost all of the world's mutants.

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My problem with the Scarlet Witch part is that they were 1v1ing in a massive battle. What was everyone on Thanos' team DOING?! Jungling?!?!

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SpeedDemon20 posted...

My problem with the Scarlet Witch part is that they were 1v1ing in a massive battle. What was everyone on Thanos' team DOING?! Jungling?!?!

His crew was already dead by that point and his mooks were still engaging in general combat against the Wakandan forces.

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Zeus posted...

His crew was already dead by that point and his mooks were still engaging in general combat against the Wakandan forces.

The only Black Order member dead at that point is Cull Obsidian (he is squished by Ant-man). When Thanos gives the order to "Rain fire," Corvus Glaive replies, "But sire, our troops."

Corvus Glaive dies later when the Avengers women form up and Valkyrie impales him. Ebony Maw and Proxima Midnight are killed when Tony snaps. You can see Proxima Midnight mourning Corvus Glaive.

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SpeedDemon20 posted...

The only Black Order member dead at that point is Cull Obsidian (he is squished by Ant-man). When Thanos gives the order to "Rain fire," Corvus Glaive replies, "But sire, our troops."

Corvus Glaive dies later when the Avengers women form up and Valkyrie impales him. Ebony Maw and Proxima Midnight are killed when Tony snaps. You can see Proxima Midnight mourning Corvus Glaive.

Oh, you mean in EG? I thought we were talking about IW, after Vision dies. In EG, there was a massive battle going on and everybody was occupied somewhere.

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IW is better than EG....but like all movies that dip into the murky grey areas of morality, it all falls flat.

Thanos' mission was sound. The argument of over-population and lack of resources is a real issue. And even though IW-Thanos was a well rounded character, he and his mission turned flat in EG, while the Avengers themselves never explained any counter-argument to Thanos.

So by EG they turned Thanos into a one-dimensional character, while the Avengers themselves ignore the premise for Thanos' motivations....

To me this whole thing sounded like:

Thanos: "Over-population is killing the universe, it needs correcting."
Avengers: "NO! You can't kill everyone, we'll stop you."
Thanos: "Okay, what's the alternative, because I spent a lot of years going over scenarios and this is the only way."
Avengers: "Well, um...er...... WAKANDA FOREVER!"
Thanos: "Seriously, tell me the alternatives."
Avengers: "America's ASS!"
Thanos: "Don't get me wrong I respect life, but it needs to be managed."
Avengers: *playing with Ant-man's car alarm*
Thanos: "...this is getting ridiculous."
Avengers: *female propaganda shot*
Thanos: "oh fuck this....here Tony just take the stones."

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Joker_X_II posted...

The argument of over-population and lack of resources is a real issue.

It actually isn't. They gimped the infinity stones in the movies. They are vastly more powerful in the comics.
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Thanos only told Tony his motive and was unwilling to hear alternatives.

He had access to time travel which gives him unlimited resources.

The snap kills living things like trees and cows as well which are resources.

His plan was just stupid.

And where did his army come from?

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Joker_X_II posted...

Thanos' mission was sound. The argument of over-population and lack of resources is a real issue. And even though IW-Thanos was a well rounded character, he and his mission turned flat in EG, while the Avengers themselves never explained any counter-argument to Thanos.

No, it wasn't. A flat 50% reduction doesn't actually address any issues and, depending on the planet, can make them worse. It also has no mechanism to continue culling despite the fact that populations will inevitably get past where they were. All of which overlooks that the answer to a perceived resource scarcity could involve just *creating* more resources with the Infinity Gauntlet, something Thanos seems to know that he can do.

No matter how you look at it, his mission was illogical.

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Thanos' motivation was sound, but the actions that followed were arrogant and myopic. He figured out the solution of killing people off to solve overpopulation, then proceeded to amass the power he needed to do so more and more effectively, never stopping to consider that such power could be used to solve the problem another way. With all six Infinity Stones, Thanos could have solved the problem of the universe's finite resources by making the universe's resources stop being finite. Instead, he used literal omnipotence to enact a solution that was temporary at best and pissed everybody off. He attained the power of a god, but continued to think like a mortal.

Now, none of that was ever actually presented to Thanos as a counterargument. The good guys' position consisted pretty much entirely of "killing people is bad, we'll figure out a different way after we stop you," which avoids talking about the problem he brings up instead of actually working to solve it. That could probably have been done better, but at the same time, I don't think it would have been consistent with any of the characters to have any of them actually do that. The only one who might have considered such a cosmic-scale solution to the problem would have been Doctor Strange, it's not in his nature to be so interventionist (see: Not telling Tony which of the millions of possibilities he searched through they were living in). Everyone else also thought about the problem like mortals, which is why they also fixated on individual lives instead of the bigger picture of solving resource scarcity.

Really, the whole story arc amounted to mortals being mortals while fighting over the power of gods, and that's inevitably going to result in all of them looking stupid if you look into it far enough. That's the only way to have interesting characters, since thinking of everything and doing everything right means you don't have much conflict to base a story off of.

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Zeus posted...

No, it wasn't. A flat 50% reduction doesn't actually address any issues and, depending on the planet, can make them worse. It also has no mechanism to continue culling despite the fact that populations will inevitably get past where they were. All of which overlooks that the answer to a perceived resource scarcity could involve just *creating* more resources with the Infinity Gauntlet, something Thanos seems to know that he can do.

No matter how you look at it, his mission was illogical.

The problem with that counter-argument is that "purpose in life" would be inherently meaningless, if everything was provided for you. Despite Thanos' need to wipe out half of all life, he did respect life's need for struggle and purpose. So even on the flip-side and providing all those needs would be illogical as well.

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Resource scarcity was never a problem in mcu. Why does Thanos think it's a universal problem?

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JOExHIGASHI posted...

Resource scarcity was never a problem in mcu. Why does Thanos think it's a universal problem?

They wanted to give him a "just cause" so that the audience could relate to him more and not think of him as a cliche bad guy, they also understandably didn't wanna touch the "i love death" plot

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Joker_X_II posted...

The problem with that counter-argument is that "purpose in life" would be inherently meaningless, if everything was provided for you. Despite Thanos' need to wipe out half of all life, he did respect life's need for struggle and purpose. So even on the flip-side and providing all those needs would be illogical as well.

He had omnipotent control over all of reality. He could find some middle ground between preventing overpopulation from becoming a problem and preventing everyone from getting bored because there was no need to work toward anything.

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Infinity War was better paced. Endgame had some spots that dragged.

Endgame's final battle totally made up for it though.

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Aculo posted...

whatever the fuck the eternals is?

it's basically about immortal people. I think the story in the movie will span thousands of years of human history maybe

Zikten posted...

it's basically about immortal people. I think the story in the movie will span thousands of years of human history maybe

Depends what China has to say about that.....

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Zeus posted...

Oh, you mean in EG? I thought we were talking about IW, after Vision dies. In EG, there was a massive battle going on and everybody was occupied somewhere.

Then they wonder how the enemy carry is so farmed.

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