Poll of the Day > Kamala Khan aka Ms Marvel seems to be main character of the Avengers game

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDDOg5d-UQQ" data-time="

I read a leak like a year or 2 ago from someone claiming to be a dev of this game. and they admitted she would be the main character. and it came true. so I guess they were telling the truth

Shes one of the better modern era comic heroes imo
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Mead posted...

Shes one of the worst modern era comic heroes imo

Fixed. She's actually not well liked at all, I don't even think SJWs even like her because her comic books don't sell very well.
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Have any of the Marvel games that have come out recently aside from Spider-man been good in general though?

I heard a decent amount of complaints about Ultimate Alliance 3.
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i love ms. marvel, but they made her look dumb, just like the rest of the the dumb looking main characters, ok?
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Hop103 posted...

Mead posted...

Shes one of the worst modern era comic heroes imo

Fixed. She's actually not well liked at all, I don't even think SJWs even like her because her comic books don't sell very well.

I think the larger issue here is there aren't a lot of SJW's that buy comic books in general, so even if they support the message in the writing, they were never within the demographic that buys comics in the first place.
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Hop103 posted...

Mead posted...

Shes one of the worst modern era comic heroes imo

Fixed. She's actually not well liked at all, I don't even think SJWs even like her because her comic books don't sell very well.

Who the heck said anything about SJWs?
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Mead posted...

Shes one of the better modern era comic heroes imo

She is one of the few new ones that has been pushed in games that I really do not like, together with Spidergwen/Gwenpool or whatever...
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It's not that unusual for a comic book game or show's kinda main character to be a young (often female) newcomer to the team, especially when it comes to Marvel. Magma was the main character in X-Men: Legends, Jubilee was the entry point for X-Men: the Animated Series, Kitty Pryde served a similar role in X-Men: Evolution and Fox's X-Men trilogy (and, of course, the failed project Pryde of the X-Men), and so on.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Mead posted...

Shes one of the better modern era comic heroes imo

She is one of the few new ones that has been pushed in games that I really do not like, together with Spidergwen/Gwenpool or whatever...

I have yet to follow Spider-Gwen, but given that I like Gwen Stacy in some of her other incarnations (including Spectacular Spidey and Emma Stone's portrayal in the Amazing Spidey films), I imagine I'd probably enjoy that as well. But I can certainly relate to the idea of disliking a character mostly because they're being shoved on fans (#RomanReigns)
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Aaantlion posted...

But I can certainly relate to the idea of disliking a character mostly because they're being shoved on fans (#RomanReigns)

No idea what Rome or the Romans have to do with it, but I meant both the pushing of "here, these are new, LIKE THEM!" and me just not liking them personality wise. Kahn is an over-active over-reacting fangirl and not in the endearing way, while the new Gwen is Deadpool with an unhealthy dose of genki girl added.
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rogue > ms marvel
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why the fuck are there so many 'marvel' characters in superhero land

come up with a new name already ffs
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Kahn is an over-active over-reacting fangirl and not in the endearing way,

Endearing to many people tho

while the new Gwen is Deadpool with an unhealthy dose of genki girl added.

You are confusing Spider-Gwen with Gwenpool

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I think the thing that annoys me most about this game is that Eidos Montreal was told to stop working on Deus Ex games so they could work on this.
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I think the real issue is, more likely, a lack of substance beyond the political message. It's not that you can't have one but anyone can write a story about some jacked up person who believes in X going around and beating up villains who believe in Y. It takes work and effort to flesh things out and make them engaging and detailed and the modern writer probably doesn't care so much. As such their work is likely just a cut-out generic story in which the X is good and the Y is evil and you got to punch the Y to win the day for the X.

No, I do not read comics, but I am aware of their struggles and how they're having difficulty with sales while also 'going woke'.

See, here's the thing. There are a lot of shows out there that could be considered 'woke'. I mean, Powerpuff girls had all three of its main leads be female. Static Shock did deal with racial issues and the like frequently. There's plenty of others. But the thing is that those shows had strong plots and characters to support it. You can have a political message. But you have to make sure that things like plot don't get forsaken for it.
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Unbridled9 posted...

I think the real issue is, more likely, a lack of substance beyond the political message.

What political message?
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Mead posted...

Unbridled9 posted...

I think the real issue is, more likely, a lack of substance beyond the political message.

What political message?

-_-

Playing dumb only works when you play dumb. Not when you're willfully ignorant of reality. I don't even read comics and I know about how woke they've gotten just from the sheer volume of belly-aching that seeps into my youtube feed... and I didn't even watch videos related to comics until a year or two ago!
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Unbridled9 posted...

Mead posted...

Unbridled9 posted...

I think the real issue is, more likely, a lack of substance beyond the political message.

What political message?

-_-

Playing dumb only works when you play dumb. Not when you're willfully ignorant of reality. I don't even read comics and I know about how woke they've gotten just from the sheer volume of belly-aching that seeps into my youtube feed... and I didn't even watch videos related to comics until a year or two ago!

Yeah there have been some that are really eyeroll inducing

Kamala isnt really a politically driven character though from the comics I have read. Nothing about her seems based in any agenda from what I know
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Metalsonic66 posted...

You are confusing Spider-Gwen with Gwenpool

They are separate characters? There is more of 'em? Do not tell me there is an entire "Into the Gwen-verse" of new Gwens out there?
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Spider-Gwen is Gwen Stacy from a universe where she got bit by the radioactive spider instead of Peter Parker

Gwenpool is a girl from the real world, or a world like our world, where Marvel Comics is just stories. and she somehow got sucked into the comics world. she has reader knowledge of everything like a fan would. knows all secret identities and such things like that. and because to her the world isn't real, she just treats it as a big game and does random stuff for fun and never takes anything seriously

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Metalsonic66 posted...

You are confusing Spider-Gwen with Gwenpool

They are separate characters? There is more of 'em? Do not tell me there is an entire "Into the Gwen-verse" of new Gwens out there?

Spider Gwen is an alternate universe Gwen Stacy that was bitten by the spider instead of Peter

Gwenpool is a girl from our world that entered the Marvel-616 universe and her power is basically her comic knowledge from reading all the marvel comics and knowing secret identities and whatnot

Theyre totally different characters, iirc Gwenpool was initially another version of Gwen Stacy but that was almost immediately retconned

Edit: Zik beat me to it
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So I am assuming they were introduced long past Ultimate was a thing, therefore do not have Ultimate counterparts?

I mean, my Marvel knowledge mainly comes from the 90's shows, the beat'm'up games, the X-Men Legends and MUA games, the MCU and from actually reading most, if not all, of Ultimate.
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Hop103 posted...

She's actually not well liked at all

I'd kind of disagree with this. The general consensus I seem to remember is that a lot of people really liked her as a character. And that she seemed to go beyond the idea of mere tokenism into being an actual character with a likeable personality that felt like more than an attempt to meet a quota.

She sort of falls into the same positive category that Miles Morales and Jaime Reyes (the "new" Blue Beetle) do in that respect.

She doesn't really get lumped into the same "Oh, this is just lazy SJW bullshit" category where you find characters like female "ethics in hammer wielding" Thor and Riri "black teenage girl Iron Man" Williams.



Hop103 posted...

I don't even think SJWs even like her because her comic books don't sell very well.

This isn't actually indicative of anything, because SJWs don't buy comics period.

That's a large part of why the Carol Danvers Captain Marvel comic sold like dogshit, in spite of the fact that SJWs couldn't stop salivating over it online. The stereotypical SJW will praise shit that caters to them and whine endlessly about all of the things they find unacceptable or problematic in media in general, but the moment they're expected to actually support something with their own money, they immediately disappear. And then when that thing gets cancelled, they'll complain about how terrible it is that cis-males and other reactionaries can't be bothered to support progressive media and how it just shows that society as a whole is still utterly terrible.

Basically, SJWs don't have time to actually read comics or watch movies, because they're too busy being outraged about things on the Internet.

This is a large part of why, after attempting to pander to Internet nerds in general (as personified by Twitter and Tumblr) and SJWs specifically, both Marvel and DC kind of backed off on the idea a bit, because it wasn't really translating into new sales. Comics will pander to pretty much anyone who is willing to buy, because sales are the worst they've ever been in the history of the medium (ie, best-selling titles today would have been cancelled for underperforming in the 80s and 90s). But that particular gamble didn't really pay off for them all that much.
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yea. Spider-Gwen and Gwenpool are more recent. like as in, I am pretty sure they debuted in the comics after the entire Ultimate line had ended

Guess me being introduced to them in a Lego game also did them no favours...
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Smarkil posted...

why the fuck are there so many 'marvel' characters in superhero land

Need to preserve the trademark.

That's literally the reason. Marvel managed to grab the trademark on the Captain Marvel name in the 70s, and have gone out of their way to make sure they never, ever lose it (their worst nightmare is a world in which DC is publishing a Captain Marvel comic, because DC bought the original Captain Marvel/Shazam character in the 90s).

To maintain the trademark in print, Marvel has to publish a comic with Captain Marvel in the title at least once every X number of years (I'm not entirely sure how often it needs to be). In the 70s the comic had their original Captain Marvel character (Mar-Vell), in the 80s they gave the name two a black woman who could turn into light, in the 90s they had Genis-Vell (Mar-Vell's son), in the 2000s they had Phyla-Vell (Mar-Vell's lesbian daughter), for about 20 minutes there was a character named Noh-Varr who had the job, and then they finally just said "Ehh, fuck it" and made Carol Danvers Captain Marvel in the 2010s.

Carol's actually been around nearly as long as the original Captain, and eventually became his sidekick/female counterpart as Ms Marvel, but she's had multiple names (and powers) over the years. But she's pretty much been a shit character 100% of the time except when Chris Claremont was writing her, and they really leaned hard into the most SJW aspects of the character during the Pandering Era, which is why she's kind of unlikable now.

The sad part is, they've tied Carol so tightly into the character and the idea of progressiveness that they've kind of painted themselves into a corner, so it's pretty much impossible for them to reboot the character again with someone different in the role. Which is a shame, because pretty much EVERY SINGLE OTHER VERSION OF THE CHARACTER was more interesting than Carol (and a few of them were more progressive than she is as well, back before progressive just meant pandering to SJWs).

Marvel doesn't really have a ton of characters with Marvel in their name, though. Other than characters specifically tied to Captain Marvel/Ms Marvel branding, the only other one I can think of is Marvel Boy (who actually existed as a character before Marvel was even CALLED Marvel - he was created in the 50s when Marvel was still Atlas Comics).

The real irony is that DC probably has more characters named Marvel than Marvel does. The "Marvel Family" includes the original Captain Marvel (now called Shazam), Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, and about a dozen other characters who've kind of been retconned out of existence, but used to be a thing back in the 50s.
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Captain Marvel will always be Captain Marvel. New adaptations still introduce him as that, so I doubt there is really anything Disney/Marvel could do against them using a character that has been the same for ages.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Marvel doesn't really have a ton of characters with Marvel in their name, though. Other than characters specifically tied to Captain Marvel/Ms Marvel branding, the only other one I can think of is Marvel Boy (who actually existed as a character before Marvel was even CALLED Marvel - he was created in the 50s when Marvel was still Atlas Comics).

Marvel Girl! Jean Grey's old codename!

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Captain Marvel will always be Captain Marvel. New adaptations still introduce him as that, so I doubt there is really anything Disney/Marvel could do against them using a character that has been the same for ages.

Marvel can literally stop DC from ever publishing a comic called Captain Marvel, or otherwise use the name in any way that counts as branding. That's how trademarks work.

Yes, DC can still call the character Captain Marvel, (because that's an issue of copyright, not trademark), but they can't market the name. This is why the comic they put out in the 90s was called "Power of Shazam", and why his comic in the 2000s was "Trials of Shazam". DC literally cannot legally put out a comic called "Captain Marvel". Which actually makes things confusing, when people start wondering why the comic isn't named after the character in it, and making casual non-fans wonder if the character is just called Shazam (and then getting more confused when you try to explain to them that it isn't).

DC basically got tired of having to deal with this problem, which is why they dropped the name entirely when they did the company-wide reboot back in 2011. The new version of the character IS called Shazam, and not "Captain Marvel". Realistically, DC will likely never call him Captain Marvel again, and he'll just be Shazam in all future media. This is also why the recent movie was called Shazam.

The whole situation with the character is kind of ridiculous when you know all the backstory. Like how DC only really owns the character in the first place because they sued the company that created him out of business (on the pretext that he was a Superman rip-off, which he was), and then later bought the rights. And how it prompted an entirely different legal mess with another spin-off/rip-off character (Marvelman/Miracleman), which in turn caused a bunch of craziness to happen with Spawn, and so on. It's possibly the messiest mess in all of comics.
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So far, I only actually know him from Flashpoint (the movie) and Young Justice. Flashpoint call him Captain Thunder I think as a sort of call back, but in Young Justice he is still Captain Marvel.

Taking the name of the wizard who gave you your powers and whose name is the secret code word to activating them, is just the stupidest thing ever. (And Young Justice made me really like him, even if he is just a background character who only gets one or two episodes to really shine)
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That moment the appearance of a telepathic dog is more interesting than half the "new" characters of the roster put together...
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Hop103 posted...

Mead posted...

Shes one of the worst modern era comic heroes imo

Fixed. She's actually not well liked at all, I don't even think SJWs even like her because her comic books don't sell very well.

SJWs don't actually buy the things they preach for

get woke go broke
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

So far, I only actually know him from Flashpoint (the movie) and Young Justice. Flashpoint call him Captain Thunder I think as a sort of call back, but in Young Justice he is still Captain Marvel.

Taking the name of the wizard who gave you your powers and whose name is the secret code word to activating them, is just the stupidest thing ever. (And Young Justice made me really like him, even if he is just a background character who only gets one or two episodes to really shine)

The old Justice League series is imo the best super hero series to date and they have an episode focusing on him, you should check it out if you haven't
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Wanded posted...

Hop103 posted...

Mead posted...

Shes one of the worst modern era comic heroes imo

Fixed. She's actually not well liked at all, I don't even think SJWs even like her because her comic books don't sell very well.

SJWs don't actually buy the things they preach for

get woke go broke

Stay rational, get cash. . .ional
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Wanded posted...

The old Justice League series is imo the best super hero series to date and they have an episode focusing on him, you should check it out if you haven't

Partway into Superman TAS, will get there eventually.
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Taking the name of the wizard who gave you your powers and whose name is the secret code word to activating them, is just the stupidest thing ever.

Not as stupid as back in the 1950s, when the secret word Captain Marvel Jr had to use to activate his powers was literally "Captain Marvel", so he couldn't actually say his own name.

Modern writers have sort of picked up on just how stupid all of this is, and have kind of changed things so someone has to say the word with INTENT for it to work. So if you trick Captain Marvel/Shazam into saying Shazam, or trick Captain Marvel Jr into saying Captain Marvel, they won't be immediately depowered. They basically have to WANT to transform while saying it for it to work.
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