Poll of the Day > We need to kill the term metroidvania.

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's not accurate anyways. If anything, "metroid-like" is a much better descriptor anyways.

I mean...people are even referring to super metroid as "metroidvania" now. It's beyond stupid. Because it's nothing more than a metroid game.
The term came into existence to describe how symphony of the night shared similarities with metroid. So it became "Metroidvania" in and of its self. And now any game with a large map and not exactly linear exploration gets called "metroidvania" even if it barely has anything else in common with either of those games.

We need a new word so we can put this one to rest.
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Castleroids
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Lokarin posted...

Castleroids

While I understand the rationale for lumping Metroid & Castlevania style gameplay together, Metroid has definitely been doing it longer. So yeah, Ive often wondered why Castlevania was able to get into the namesake of the play style.
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no, we don't.
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For me, "Metroidvania", means the Metroid-like maps and "broken bridges", with the RPG elements Symphony added to the formula.

The Metroid games are obviously Metroids and not Metroidvanias, as Metroid never went that heavy on the RPG elements.
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Castlevania doesn't even exist anymore, and new Metroid games are so rare that I feel like that moniker's a little outdated.
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Lets just call them Doom clones.
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I remember thinking about this once, after hearing the term too many times. But upon further reflection, no, not really. It is a perfect description of a certain style of 2D exploration

The problem I have with the term is that ANY game with a sprawling map and free exploration is automatically called metroidvania based on nothing more than having a large map.

Alwa's awakening for example. RPG elements? Eh, not really, metroid style? Eh...again not really.
They literally only have a large map in common

Axiom Verge. Okay, this one's a lot more like metroid than anything we've seen in a while. But I don't see any RPG elements, so it's not like castlevania in that regard. So the term fails to fit.

Shovel Knight: Well, it's got big levels, but it's not an interconnected world. Hell, it even plays a lot like castlevania, what with the subweapons and MP (hearts) But honestly it feels more like a mishmash of mario 3, castlevania and megaman than "Metroidvania". So it doesn't really fit here either.

Rogue Legacy? While it's often called Rogue-lite by many, I've often heard it touted as metroidvania also. But it's not. We got the large map, and we have upgrades that give access to other areas of the large map, but it's procedurally generated, and there isn't much logic to the design, I guess because there is no design.

Fez: I've heard this one described as metroidvania too. But there's a huge glaring problem with that description. There are no enemies. It's just puzzle after puzzle in a 2/3d hybrid world.

The closest game I've seen that actually fits the description of "Metroidvania" since symphony of the night and the GBA castlevania games is CHASM. But then it has to go and mess everything up by being procedurally generated which could work, but the rooms you have to slog through are so shit, and boring, and repetitive that it takes more away from the game than it adds. Give me a well designed map that doesn't change over something that feels like a 3rd grader put it together in mario maker.
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I have never heard anyone call Shovel Knight a Metroidvania.
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Zareth posted...

I have never heard anyone call Shovel Knight a Metroidvania.

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Are you the guy who argues about what sub-genre of sub-genre music fits into?
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VeeVees posted...

Zareth posted...

I have never heard anyone call Shovel Knight a Metroidvania.

Yeah anyone who does this is wrong.
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LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

Are you the guy who argues about what sub-genre of sub-genre music fits into?

Only when it comes to metal. There's such a broad spectrum of metal that you can't really consider them the same other than both having overdriven guitar. It's like comparing cattle decapitation to metallica. They're both metal, but they're not even remotely similar.

My point is, metroidvania paints a pretty specific picture in your mind. But when you search the term you find all these games that don't even have metroidvania qualities.

It's like how people in some towns refer to pop or soda as coke, regardless of what kind it is. "Hey could you grab me a coke? Yeah, what kind? Mtn Dew please."
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The term doesn't just need to be killed, it needs to be murdered
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Side-scrolling action adventure games with an emphasis on exploration and combat? With mild RPG elements.

Metroidvania is pretty fitting, if you ask me.

The term I'm learning to hate is "roguelike".

Who the fuck coined that term? It's a game where you just keep retrying over and over. Procedurally generated worlds (which is usually a cheaper way of saying the level design is bland, and they just move walls and enemy placements around with each run).

Some roguelikes are starting to be classified as Metroidvanias, and I have a big problem with that.

If the game can potentially be beaten in one sitting (because it's roguelike)....then there isn't much emphasis on exploration or a cohesive, massive world. And what's the point of exploring or memorizing paths when they are always different?
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DrCidd posted...

The term came into existence to describe how symphony of the night shared similarities with metroid.

Exactly right. The similarities between the two games.

DrCidd posted...

But I don't see any RPG elements, so it's not like castlevania in that regard.

And neither does Metroid. It doesn't have RPG element. It's about exploring a limited map that opens up more and more by finding item or upgrades that allow you to access more areas.
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Lokarin posted...

Castleroids

I hear those are quite painful...
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How do any of those qualify? Axiom is the closest but I'm not sure where you're getting the RPG elements. You grow as you gain items, it doesn't mean you're grinding or anything.

Shovel is more Megaman than anything. The levels are linear enough. Rogue is more of an action platformer that's a rougelike. Fez doesn't have as much action, definitely a puzzler.

I'm fine with 'metroidvania' since we all know what that means now. Games that fit would be Shantae, Kirby Amazing Mirror, Guacamelee, or Rabi Ribi.

trodi_911 posted...

DrCidd posted...

The term came into existence to describe how symphony of the night shared similarities with metroid.

Exactly right. The similarities between the two games.

DrCidd posted...

But I don't see any RPG elements, so it's not like castlevania in that regard.

And neither does Metroid. It doesn't have RPG element. It's about exploring a limited map that opens up more and more by finding item or upgrades that allow you to access more areas.

Which clearly means it's a metroid game, not metroidvania. You see the issue I'm having here is that even straight up METROID games are being referred to as metroidvania, and roguelikes too, as GreenKnight mentioned.

It's a lazy, lousy term and it's hardly descriptive of the games that get slapped with that label. People are even referring to zelda 2 as metroidvania nowadays. It's ridiculous.
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What a stupid complaint. Metroid fits into metroidvania.

And contrary to your claim, people don't commonly call fez, shovel knight, etc metroidvania.
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VeeVees posted...

no, we don't.

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DrCidd posted...

You see the issue I'm having here is that even straight up METROID games are being referred to as metroidvania, and roguelikes too, as GreenKnight mentioned.

It's a lazy, lousy term and it's hardly descriptive of the games that get slapped with that label. People are even referring to zelda 2 as metroidvania nowadays. It's ridiculous.

The issue is you don't have a clear definition of what a metroidvania is.

A majority of the gameplay in metroidvanias consist of 2D platforming, exploring, finding areas you can't access and getting upgrades and items so that you can access more areas to explore.

Metroid and Zelda 2 contains a lot of the previously stated mechanics in a majority of it's gameplay and can therefore be described as a metroidvania.
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Red_Frog posted...

Lokarin posted...

Castleroids

StarKnight23 posted...

VeeVees posted...

no, we don't.

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platform adventure is more correct.
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Are you suggesting that we poison the wall turkeys?
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Why do we need to kill that term? And for that matter, who is this "we" that you refer to?
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I agree that actual Metroid games shouldn't be classified as 'Metroidvanias'.
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DrCidd posted...

It's a lazy, lousy term and it's hardly descriptive of the games that get slapped with that label. People are even referring to zelda 2 as metroidvania nowadays. It's ridiculous.

Oh I get it. The problem isn't the term. We're just learning that people are stupid. Whoever called Zelda 2 that should go sit in the corner.

Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
Metroidvania?
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The last game I heard coined metroidvania is Hollow Knight and I think thats an accurate description. I always figured that metroidvania meant 2d side scroller where backtracking is involved because certain areas of the map can only be accessed with certain powerups/items you get later on. I didnt know RPG elements had to exist for the term to be correct.
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Blighboy posted...

VeeVees posted...

Zareth posted...

I have never heard anyone call Shovel Knight a Metroidvania.

Yeah anyone who does this is wrong.

Steam game tags are usually pretty accurate and help me find games I want to play like metroidvanias or Point click games, the only time I find this term to be in accurate was like when I found out enough trolls labeled Call of Duty as point-and-click

exploratory platformers

done

Jiggy101011 posted...

The last game I heard coined metroidvania is Hollow Knight and I think thats an accurate description. I always figured that metroidvania meant 2d side scroller where backtracking is involved because certain areas of the map can only be accessed with certain powerups/items you get later on. I didnt know RPG elements had to exist for the term to be correct.

Wanna try that one myself. Is it Switch only?

That's how I explain it. One large map, segmented into areas you can quick travel to. Progress is advanced by gaining new abilities. I don't put much focus onto the RPG part because SotN really wasn't an RPG in the traditional sense. You get XP and levels but it's not like you're improving from a skill tree or anything. I guess with all the indies blurring the lines between genres it's getting harder to categorize everything.

VeeVees posted...

no, we don't.

Second_Chances posted...

exploratory platformers

done

Mmm, enh. Close but it sounds like that would incorrectly include Mario 64. To me platformers include tricky jumping and dashing. Metroidvanias usually don't have complex platforming challenges.

I'm starting to confuse myself trying to sort this out.

Blighboy posted...

VeeVees posted...

Zareth posted...

I have never heard anyone call Shovel Knight a Metroidvania.

Yeah anyone who does this is wrong.

Yeah. It's clearly a Megamanvania
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VeeVees posted...

no, we don't.

GreenKnight127 posted...

Some roguelikes are starting to be classified as Metroidvanias, and I have a big problem with that.

I imagine something like Dead Cells really blurs the line.

DPsx7 posted...

Jiggy101011 posted...

The last game I heard coined metroidvania is Hollow Knight and I think thats an accurate description. I always figured that metroidvania meant 2d side scroller where backtracking is involved because certain areas of the map can only be accessed with certain powerups/items you get later on. I didnt know RPG elements had to exist for the term to be correct.

Wanna try that one myself. Is it Switch only?

That's how I explain it. One large map, segmented into areas you can quick travel to. Progress is advanced by gaining new abilities. I don't put much focus onto the RPG part because SotN really wasn't an RPG in the traditional sense. You get XP and levels but it's not like you're improving from a skill tree or anything. I guess with all the indies blurring the lines between genres it's getting harder to categorize everything.

It comes out for PS4 and Xbox One soon. A game like that works best on Switch though IMO, one of those games thats fun to play on the go.
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DrunkCaveman posted...

I remember thinking about this once, after hearing the term too many times. But upon further reflection, no, not really. It is a perfect description of a certain style of 2D exploration

Yeah it's a genre at this point, and unlikely to go away any time soon.
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Shovel Knight is Megaman and Duck Tales. Can we call it a Mega Tales or a Duck Man game. Now thinking about it, it's a like the old nes Disney games (like rescue ranger and dark-wing duck). So Megasney game or Disman game.

and it also feels like ninja gaiden. Lets call it a Megadisnigaiden game.
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