Board 8 > Doki Doki Literature Club aftergame discussion *major spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Since it's all the rage right now and I want to do this poll, I figure might as well make the topic.

I went with Yuri on my very first playthrough and she's still pretty great even after everything. I wanted to pursue Monica at first but she was...hard to get. I thought she was like a secret route that has to be unlocked from second playthrough onwards...and she kinda is lol. But after all that hubbub, I'm not particularly interested in who she really is.

Yuri > Natsuki > Sayori > Monika
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Just Monica.
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Who is Monika? Sayori is the president of the Literature Club and she was the best

Anyway, I really liked DDLC. My favorite thing was a lot of little details it had. At one point there was a choice of who to spend time with and it kept auto-scrolling my mouse down to Monika. I reloaded over and over trying to quickly click one of the other girls just to see what happened until finally I reloaded and there was just a pair of eyes hovering in nothingness staring at me. Then the game chose Monika for me.

I'd have never seen that unless I was trying random stuff, but the game had something there just to freak out anyone who tried it. And there were a bunch of things like this! It was so good
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Posting the 2 jump scares in the game

https://clips.twitch.tv/TardyScaryBobaDxCat

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/181569247?t=05h33m33s

Is there like a normal way to see Monika's spooky face?
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not gonna lie when I licked frosting off natsuki's finger my heart went doki doki
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al1BNB8bKaE

Sayori

Sayo-nara

Goddamn
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I streamed this last night, and it was certainly an experience. And considering I got about a total of one hour of sleep, it was pretty effective. I thought all of the girls outside of Monika were generally likable, and some of the darker moments just had me laughing my head off because I couldn't comprehend what the hell was even going on.
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https://twitter.com/_Satchely/status/792450022398984193

To think that the character artist tweeted that a year ago.
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https://kotaku.com/doki-doki-literature-clubs-horror-was-born-from-a-love-1819724999

Interview with Dan Salvato about the makings of the game.
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what happens if I delete Monika?

I don't really want to do it unless there is a significant amount of content still remaining in the game. my guess or instinct would be that the game just reverts back to normal or something?
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Are you at the point where it's just you and her?

If so.....deleting her makes you finish the game
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right but by "finish" do you mean there are additional scenes

or it's just THE END?
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Still additional scenes.
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Additional scenes. Not a ton, but there's a "final playthrough"
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argh lame

I like it better when it's just me and monika
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Just Monica.
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alright one last question

it seemed like there was some content that I missed out on because of the way the game is structured. if I start a fresh playthrough and do things differently, will different things happen? or does the same events basically transpire in the same order no matter what and I only fell victim to the illusion of choice?

tl;dr is it worth it to replay the game or are there not actually any other routes
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There may be some dialogue changes, but pretty much the same stuff still happens. The thing with Yuri near the end will always happen regardless of what you say to her or what you did beforehand.

There is a 'good' alternate ending but it involves save scumming to get all of the CGs before all the crazy stuff happens. I think it involves keep a save when you make your first poem and keep reloading there.
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WhiteLens posted...

There is a 'good' alternate ending but it involves save scumming to get all of the CGs before all the crazy stuff happens. I think it involves keep a save when you make your first poem and keep reloading there.

yeah I heard about that. well, what is your definition of 'good' exactly? that's a pretty subjective term.

anyway the other main questions I had were

1. does sayori always die first, leaving the other two fighting over me? I'm guessing this is the case since you mentioned getting stuck in the Yuri loop always happens. so I'm guessing it wouldn't be possible for anyone other than sayori to die first.

2. what happens if I choose to go with Monika the very first time the choice is offered while I'm still in the normal route? seems like this should impact things majorly but apparently it doesn't. so what exactly happens...?
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1. Yes
2. It was a false choice, you can't go with her.
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1. Yes

2. You can't. There's like 5 lines of dialogue and then they agree you should pick one of the others. Choose again.
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okay in that case it's definitely not worth replaying
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You could always just watch the secret ending on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oyPHt5BxQE

That's what some of us did.
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ah yeah. figured it'd be something like that.

well if anyone is interested in hearing my thoughts I'll go ahead and type them out. if not I'll save it for a private conversation with a friend later on.
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Yes please.
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Just finished it. Man, that fucked me up. Really good stuff.

I'm going to replay a bit since I missed some arcs, but the secret ending that White posted is something I just watched because man, not worth it.
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Yeah Maria, go for it.
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act 1

I think as a stand alone story this is actually pretty good, except for one thing about it. Despite being a very classical conflict I think it was explored in a very unique way. We're introduced to all of the characters and there's even this idea that you're playing through a normal story. I love the idea of stories where your flawed perception causes you to "miss" things about what is "really" going on. Shintaro Kago has some really great stories that abuse this twist and abuse the medium as well in order to pull a fast one over on the reader. I would not recommend his works to anyone lightly though since they are, in a word, vile. That being said... thinking on it more... the style here actually does remind me quite a bit. So I don't know. My favorite by him is Harem End if you're at all interested.

Getting back on track, the idea that Sayori is not actually a happy character but we perceive her as one because she is always happy when we are around is VERY interesting. That twist alone was super strong to me as a fan of abusing the limited narrative perspective. I don't particularly like how the ending pans out though and it's one of many contributing factors toward my biggest complaint with the game. More on that in the act 3 discussion.

Lastly, I'll just say, given what the story is AS A WHOLE, part 1 goes on for too long by itself. There is far too much set up and it causes the tone of the story to be all over the place. Part 1 is Classical, Part 2 is Postmodern, and Part 3 feels more Modern than anything else. It's weird that instead of escalating these seem to have just been chosen haphazardly. And because the first two parts are the same length (so you can't tell which is supposed to be more important) while the last one is the shortest by far (making it feel insignificant) it leaves you wondering just what the hell this story is even trying to be.

act 2

act 2 is great. I was a little put off by the fact that I essentially got locked into an advanced route without any way to go back, but I figured in the end I would just replay the early stuff if I felt like it. That being said, I did NOT feel like going back and doing this. So I do still feel like some kind of ball was dropped here. This goes back to part 1 being too long and the tone of the story being all over the place. The game doesn't really inspire you to replay multiple sections because it feels as if the entire narrative is very linear despite what minor choices you might make along the way. I had already gone on some dates with Yuri in part 1 so while it felt like I got stuck retreading a lot of the same ground here it was also nice to have context for those scenes and to see exactly how they changed. In fact, it almost seems ludicrous to me that some people who had done non-Yuri routes first would be stuck in this path and would be seeing these scenes for the first time without having the previous experience to see where they had been corrupted.

The ending of part 2 is the best part of the game. This is the climax of the story as a fully postmodern piece of art and is basically head and shoulders above the rest. Monika, confronted by her own existence, decides to take matters into her own hands. I think the "twist" is done somewhat poorly in the sense that it was far too easy to detect far too early on. Seeding a twist is needed and I hope I'm not giving other people too much credit here; I could tell that Monika was a meta character from pretty early on even in Act 1. The minute stuff started to go wrong I immediately knew that Monika was the one responsible. So when she 'admits' it and 'explains' herself later this does feel like it falls kind of flat. That being said the overall story it presents is still very strong and you're left with the decision to delete Monika and go back to normal or stay locked in this broken game loop with her forever. That to me is an awesome ending to this story.
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act 3

Not a fan of act 3 and it is almost by itself a compounding issue that exacerbates all of the problems with previous routes. So I'll go ahead and reveal now that my biggest complaint of the game is the feeling of helplessness that it invokes in the reader. In act 1, no matter what you do, Sayori is going to kill herself. Actually what is really shitty about this is the moment where she confesses to you and even if you accept her this does not make her happy. Instead she continues to feel sad. That... is not a good feeling. I have no idea why the author would want us to feel that, honestly. In act 2, no matter what you do, you're locked into the same route where Yuri slowly goes crazy. The ending seems great on the surface but, alas, the "choice" of whether to delete Monika or not is not a choice either -- you HAVE TO delete her in order to see the ending of the story. For the third and final time player agency is completely stripped away.

It's ironic to me that the final letter given in the true ending mentions that the designer is a big fan of using the medium of gaming to tell stories in a way that books cannot. Honestly, all he has done here, is created a novel and made it seem on the surface like the reader can interact with the story. The level of interactivity here is in fact painfully small. Less than most other visual novels I can think of. The story is incredibly linear, the player cannot affect the outcomes in any way. All I wanted was my happy ending where I stay with Monika forever -- but I can't even get her to play piano or sing for me unless I erase her from existence first. Hell, you can try to rationalize deleting her based on the fact that she was in pain whenever you closed out of the game client, but then again she seems to be even more distressed and in even more pain while going through the act of being deleted. There is really no winning with this ending.

I think Katawa Shoujo is a fair comparison here and I believe what people loved about that game was how it inspired many players to make better choices in their own lives. It was bittersweet in a lot of ways but the overall message was positive and the novel became popular because of how it touched people in a very special way. Doki Doki Literature Club does not do that. It's fully an exercise in intellectualism that focuses most strongly on breaking narrative convention, but the balance and tone of the story suffers as a result and since the overall experience is very linear it actually falls short of expectations. If this WAS a novel I'd be more impressed. Because it's a game I expected more to be done with the choices and the routes. And, going back to my main complaint, reading this did not make me feel GOOD. It made me feel helpless and kind of shitty. It didn't make me feel like I should make better choices in my own life. With the ending being a very modernist gut punch and the overall theme of player helplessness, it more seemed like the story wanted you to walk away feeling like nothing you do matters and things are going to turn out shitty. Even if someone confesses to you, you can't make them happy, and even if you basically hurt and destroy others (Monika) in order to reach a happy ending you won't get one. You just get a demented version of Sayori instead.

I did like the song at the end, though. If the end of act 2 was the end of the game and we still got the piano, this product would have been a lot stronger to me. Either way I did still find it interesting but there are more than a few things holding it back from being truly great or profound. As is, it's just one of many defeatist stories that is going to catch on for people who feel depressed and stuck. And the sad part is that many of them will like it because they identify with these core themes. Much better in my opinion if they read something with a positive message and it inspires them to better their own lives. But, once again, I'm left feeling helpless. I can't force anyone else to do that.
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tl;dr

act 1 is good
act 2 is great
they do not mesh well together, and I don't think the overall story was tied together well
act 3 feels tacked on and further solidifies the message of the story as being a negative one
the subversion and meta stuff is good
intentionally making the reader feel shitty and helpless the entire story is bad

I think people who are depressed will identify with this game and probably like it a lot (especially Sayori)
but I wish they would play something else that would make them feel more inspired to affect positive changes
in real life there is no Monika who is going to corrupt your character file and make you continue to feel depressed no matter what you do. this kind of learned helplessness is very unhealthy and only makes it more difficult to cope with depression. in that sense I think the overall message of the story is not only bad, but might be actively harmful to the people who would be most likely to read and enjoy it.
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finished it last night. honestly I wasn't too enthused about the whole thing.

- Act 1 was pretty dull - I was speed-reading it for the most part waiting for things to get interesting. like Maria said, I think it goes on for too long relative to the overall length of the game.

- it was better once it got going, but it was not nearly as scary/disturbing as I was hoping. this is probably my own fault for buying into the hype so heavily (both board 8 and steam reviews). but the girls' issues -- depression, cutting, an abusive father -- were all relatively mundane and not developed enough for me to really feel for any of them. I guess I was hoping for...something more dramatic? larger-scale? eldritch emergence, the whole school awash in tentacles and blood, that kinda thing. instead what I got, aside from the special effects (and Monika), was a fairly stock contemporary drama. like I said, probably my fault for expecting too much

- Yuri stabbing herself was pretty good shock value but I don't understand it. I mean, I said yes! (even though I had been trying to get on Natsuki's route all route lol)

- also like Maria said, the impact of the Monika twist is pretty muted since it's telegraphed so heavily. she is cute though
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Eh for it is kinda worse if you were playing for it for the hype. The earliest players might have it best, going without expectations. To be honest, I liked Act 1 anyway and felt like it could have been a solid, if run-of-the-mill visual novel regardless of the twist.
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edit: whoops, posted the not final version

HERE is my own doki doki fan art


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Raka_Putra posted...

Eh for it is kinda worse if you were playing for it for the hype. The earliest players might have it best, going without expectations.

Yeah, that's true. Though I wouldn't have played it if I thought it were just a nice story about a high school literature club.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmyiYfKki28
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Well, I liked it quite a bit! I knew vaguely that this was a faux-VN that got weird/disturbing throughout the game, but I think the ways it turned into more of a horror story were interesting and well done.
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Also I've heard the wiki for this game has documented a lot of stuff that is hidden in files and such, I'll have to check that out too.
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It'd be neat to have a screensaver that was Just Monika.

Also, I tried making MC-kun and myself .chr files but nothing changed. :(
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I quite liked it, from start to finish! Even the first part! I'm pretty into VNs in general, even basic stuff like the first part, and this was good for two reasons. For one, it was just well done in general. Solid writing and characters, and a fun gimmick in the Literature Club/poetry. On top of that, the characters didn't feel like cliches in the way they tend to in Japanese stories. I mean, obviously you could still classify them as archetypes, but more the way they talked and acted in general made them feel much more unique. Same with the situations. If they'd played the whole game straight, or even just had them focus on the depression/cutting/abuse/manipulation for the four girls, I would've enjoyed it very much.

The second and third parts were still cool too though. Had this constant weird feeling to it, and everything that happened was just interesting. Monika's antics at the end were great too. Made her my favorite character by a long shot. Her calling me by my real name was probably the funnest gimmick there. I don't generally care about themes or whatever, so that stuff didn't really bother me. Monika saving you from playing the game in the end was a fun twist too. Kinda the opposite of the twist at the end of Remember 11, where the characters trap the player in the time loop where you can never beat the game. I think Katawa Shoujo was better overall, but stuff like this makes me feel pretty good about OEL VNs. Super neat that they released it for free too. Hope they make some money off of it.
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