Board 8 > Walgreens fires employee for stopping robbers

(+) Yeah! (+)

Stolen from WOT

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/fired-walgreens-gun-toting-michigan-pharmacist-filled-robbers/story?id=13705438

In Benton Township, Michigan, two armed robbers wearing masks burst into a near-deserted Walgreens at 4:30 a.m. To pharmacist Jeremy Hoven, it was a prescription for trouble. So he filled it with hot lead.

Give this reporter an award.

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

This night just gets better and better.

--
"Mr. Paris, I assume you've had a great deal of experience being rejected by women." ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

Wow, that's complete bull****.

--
http://img.imgcake.com/MerMerYesMer/yeezygifje.gif
Mer

A while ago, some security guards were fired for the same thing, and they didn't even use a gun. Never change, America.

--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html

Fail for Walgreens.

--
Dark Defender

why is this the second bull**** walgreens firing I'm hearing about in 2 days

*edit*

okay, not 2 days but still

http://jezebel.com/5839148/walgreens-employee-fired-for-stealing-chips-during-diabetic-attack

--
http://img.imgcake.com/GuessMyUserName/kamaro.jpg

Pretty much 95% of retail stores tells you when they hire you that you're not supposed to resist in those situations, as to not endanger your or anybody else's life. While I don't at all agree with it, you agree to the terms when you accept employment, so they're well within their rights to fire you. Stupid? Yeah, probably, but they typically give you the warning not to play hero.

If Walgreens does indeed have such a policy, he's going to lose the case, which is a shame.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

Speaks the truth.

--
"Mr. Paris, I assume you've had a great deal of experience being rejected by women." ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

GuessMyUserName posted...
why is this the second bull**** walgreens firing I'm hearing about in 2 days
*edit*
okay, not 2 days but still
http://jezebel.com/5839148/walgreens-employee-fired-for-stealing-chips-during-diabetic-attack

Ok, I can understand the mindset behind firing someone for possibly escalating a robbery ( Something I disagree with).

But this?

She paid for them too?

wtf?

--
Brawl is like ZSS' breasts. Well rounded for casual players.
http://i52.tinypic.com/2llhfrc.jpg

From: StealThisSheen | #007
Pretty much 95% of retail stores tells you when they hire you that you're not supposed to resist in those situations, as to not endanger your or anybody else's life. While I don't at all agree with it, you agree to the terms when you accept employment, so they're well within their rights to fire you. Stupid? Yeah, probably, but they typically give you the warning not to play hero.

If Walgreens does indeed have such a policy, he's going to lose the case, which is a shame.

True, but this guy is saying that he was never told the policy during the time he worked there. I'm not sure how he's going to prove that though...

--
http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/lunatic-asylum
http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/summer-rain

To be fair, he shouldn't have had the gun with him in the first place.

--
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2636/ivotedphoenixyi0.png

From: LordoftheMorons | #051
To be fair, he shouldn't have had the gun with him in the first place.

He had a permit and he says he was never advised of the policy. While I would think it would be understood, he's at zero fault if he's telling the truth about that.

--
Chrono1219

I suppose that's one less store to shop at.

--
Congratulations, LMS. In a topic where Liquid Wind said that women shouldn't be allowed to vote, you are still the worst poster in this topic. - kevwaffles

As bad as this sounds, it's par for the course.

Think of it from the store's perspective: You stopped a relatively small amount of money from being taken(that's insured mind you) at the risk of your own life, putting yourself at risk and possibly opening the company up to huge issues caused by your potential injury or death.

Most stores have a policy to let the robbery happen and cooperate; while this is sad to hear, it's not surprising or abnormal. Almost any major retail outlet would do the same thing.

--
Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

To be fair, I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable with a guy bringing a gun to work every day. What if he snaps one day?

Why are we such a gun obsessed country?

--
TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

He can claim he was never advised of the policy all he wants, but if it was in the handbook/paper work, then he's still at "fault." He has to hope it's not in any documentation that is given/read by new employees, or the case will be over in minutes.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

You're opening yourself up to hug issues by doing nothing, like potential injury of death.

--
Chrono1219

Chrono1219 posted...
You're opening yourself up to hug issues by doing nothing, like potential injury of death.

thank god SDR isn't around

--
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7585/tumblrkosxj2e4bp1qzhqy3.jpg

Man, 150 grand a year for being a pharmacist at Walgreens.

--
GameFAQs isn't going to be merged in with GameSpot or any other site. We're not going to strip out the soul of the site. -CJayC

Chrono1219 posted...
You're opening yourself up to hug issues by doing nothing, like potential injury of death.


In 90% of situations, it's much safer to not resist than it is to try and do so. That's not even debatable.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

From: StealThisSheen | #060
From: Chrono1219
You're opening yourself up to hug issues by doing nothing, like potential injury of death.


In 90% of situations, it's much safer to not resist than it is to try and do so. That's not even debatable.

He was already shot at, 3 times, I believe.

--
Chrono1219

Chrono1219 posted...
From: Chrono1219

He was already shot at, 3 times, I believe.


First, I'm talking about in general, and why such "non-escalation" policies exist.

Second, he reports that the gunman started "jerking the trigger," but the gun wouldn't fire. Whether this is true or not can't be proven, and I'm not calling the guy a liar or anything at all, since I believe him... But he technically wasn't "shot at" 3 times. Assuming the gunman WAS trying to fire, however, well... Then he definitely fell into the 10% of the time where it was safer to react.

That by no means makes the policies stupid, however, and if such a policy really does exist, he's legally screwed.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

Sorry, I was just arguing for instances like his where shots have already been fired in ones direction.

--
Chrono1219

Things do get quite muddy if shots are fired, yeah... But what can you really do in those situations? "Do not escalate. Oh, but do have a gun in case they shoot first." It's really just too hard to account for any such situation, and thus it's better to just go with the more generally safer policy.

In my own personal opinion, I think exceptions should be made in cases like this. It's sad that they didn't, and even moreso that he likely doesn't have a case.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

The only thing I think they can get him on is the barring of carrying guns. Technically, he did not escalate, since he only fired after being (or believed being) fired upon.

Also, from what I understand, Walgreens will not disclose their policy or something.

--
Chrono1219

Chrono1219 posted...
The only thing I think they can get him on is the barring of carrying guns. Technically, he did not escalate, since he only fired after being (or believed being) fired upon.

Also, from what I understand, Walgreens will not disclose their policy or something.

Firing back is considered "escalation" under law, believe it or not.

And that's why I mentioned the whole... Documented policy thing earlier. If Walgreens has the policy documented in any manner available to employees, whether in something he signed or a handbook, etc., then he's boned.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

Man, 150 grand a year for being a pharmacist at Walgreens.

Uh, pharmacist is a professional job.

--
SubDeity wants to vote for Calvin Coolidge. [Evil Republican]
Play Der Langrisser.

I mean, they will not disclose it to the public.

Oh and, that sucks, I guess the law is a F***ing middle school.

--
Chrono1219

Was he in the right to bring his gun into the store

--
Save My Marvel VS DC Character Day 28 http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60315027

Honestly, after 9/11 you can't just expect anyone to "cooperate" with criminals. While it might be just some guy wanting to steal $50, it might also be some psychopath wanting to herd the employees into a back room and execute them. If you can defend yourself you should have the legal right to do so, we need to make a national law to trump these company contracts.

--
I chose poorly. Black Turtle chose wisely.

If the robber actually was trying and failing to shoot at him, yeah, that safely falls under 'Crazy person who wants to kill you'

--
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

Ry Senkari posted...
Honestly, after 9/11 you can't just expect anyone to "cooperate" with criminals. While it might be just some guy wanting to steal $50, it might also be some psychopath wanting to herd the employees into a back room and execute them. If you can defend yourself you should have the legal right to do so, we need to make a national law to trump these company contracts.

this and there are a lot of criminals that won't want to leave you alive to begin with, if you're alive you're a witness so they're going to want to kill you anyway.

It would actually make MORE sense to leave witnesses alive, even if they saw your face, because once it becomes a murder the police are MUCH more vigorous in trying to solve it. The solving rate for robbery is something like 15%, the solve rate for murder hovers around 66%.

But someone desperate for crack/meth money isn't thinking by that logic, they're paranoid and some of them are willing to kill even people who are totally helpless.

--
I chose poorly. Black Turtle chose wisely.

http://jezebel.com/5839148/walgreens-employee-fired-for-stealing-chips-during-diabetic-attack

Ok, I can understand the mindset behind firing someone for possibly escalating a robbery ( Something I disagree with).

But this?

She paid for them too?

This sounds almost 100% like the reason my sister was fired from Wal-Mart back in the day (minus the diabetic part, the Walgreens link is far worse). She cracked open a 20 oz. of Pepsi and was drinking it, but paid for it 30 minutes after drinking the whole thing. Management told her that was like someone taking a game home without paying for it, playing it for an hour, and then coming back and buying it; end result - she was fired for stealing and given a permanent ban.

--
http://www.facebook.com/zerosignal
The photograph reflects, every streetlight a reminder; nightswimming deserves a quiet night

It's pretty ridiculous to suggest that if Walgreens had a policy against this that it was never made available to him.

It probably was made available to him and he either never read it or forgot about it.

If Walgreens made it available, it's his responsibility to be aware of it. That's how any company operates.

--
Connecticut Huskies

The Real Truth posted...
Man, 150 grand a year for being a pharmacist at Walgreens.

Being a pharmacist anywhere is a huge paying job. It's a very specialized job with a ton of responsibility, and it's usually a 6 year degree.

--
Connecticut Huskies

should have been fired for that haircut imo

--
i consider myself a very positive influence on the youths of my community
http://img.imgcake.com/felixpngza.png

Ry Senkari posted...
Honestly, after 9/11 you can't just expect anyone to "cooperate" with criminals. While it might be just some guy wanting to steal $50, it might also be some psychopath wanting to herd the employees into a back room and execute them. If you can defend yourself you should have the legal right to do so, we need to make a national law to trump these company contracts.

No, the laws are in place for a reason; the VAST majority of times it is far better not to resist, because you will be putting your life at stake for NOTHING.

If you don't resist, typically they will get a couple thousand, which is insured, and you'll be unharmed. The company loses nothing.

If you resist, there's a good chance you'll get injured or killed. The company will be open to all sorts of legal troubles and compensation, so even if the robber doesn't make out with anything you'll have lost them a LOT of money.

--
Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Now to be fair, the story I heard was that the robber pulled his gun, the pharmacist pulled his, and THEN the robber pulled the trigger.

Now it obviously still gives him the right to defend himself, but there's nothing showing that the robber was going to try to shoot no matter what.

--
I ****ing love to cuddle.
I'm being oppressed!

Oh and if that causes debate here, lets bring back this:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802

Guy shoots and kills a robber and gets life in prison for it.

Everyone seems to ignore that he shot him after the robbery when he was unconcious on the floor.

--
Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Oh, if the robber didn't try to shoot until AFTER the pharmacist pulled his gun, then that's a whole completely different story and the guy is definitely gonna lose his case.

EDIT: Yeah, everywhere is reporting that the pharmacist grabbed his gun BEFORE the robber jumped over the counter/shot at him. That like, completely changes things.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

From: StealThisSheen | #007
Pretty much 95% of retail stores tells you when they hire you that you're not supposed to resist in those situations, as to not endanger your or anybody else's life. While I don't at all agree with it, you agree to the terms when you accept employment, so they're well within their rights to fire you. Stupid? Yeah, probably, but they typically give you the warning not to play hero.

If Walgreens does indeed have such a policy, he's going to lose the case, which is a shame.

I always thought this policy was more so that they can't be sued if you do try to play hero and get hurt...

--
http://i.imgur.com/FDwwl.gif

MarvelousGerbil posted...
From: StealThisSheen | #007
Pretty much 95% of retail stores tells you when they hire you that you're not supposed to resist in those situations, as to not endanger your or anybody else's life. While I don't at all agree with it, you agree to the terms when you accept employment, so they're well within their rights to fire you. Stupid? Yeah, probably, but they typically give you the warning not to play hero.

If Walgreens does indeed have such a policy, he's going to lose the case, which is a shame.
I always thought this policy was more so that they can't be sued if you do try to play hero and get hurt...

No, if you get hurt or killed on the clock, the company is likely going to have a hard time getting out of it.

--
Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Uh yeah I can definitely see why they don't want to back him firing a gun.

Imagine the **** Walgreens would be in if one of his shots had hit a customer.

--
Black Turtle spilled my diet soda!

I thought the robber had approached him and tried to fire first, and then the pharmacist grabbed his gun IN RESPONSE. But I misread it, and it's being reported that the pharmacist grabbed his gun and it was the ROBBER acting in response to THAT.

I no longer really have sympathy for the guy.

--
SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid! http://img.imgcake.com/stevenashgifpu.gif

There's a video on the website that shows most of the surveillance tape

Here's the plot:
- Armed robbers come in
- one takes clerk hostage and then moves him to the back of the store
- notices pharmacist, draws gun, jumps over the counter
- pharmacist fires

Also, he isn't suing Walgreens just for firing him, he's suing them for HAVING that policy. He is "challenging Walgreens' right to fire him for exercising HIS right to self defense"

--
The return of...Me_Pie_Three

Read this paragraph:
"Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire."

--
The return of...Me_Pie_Three

So am I the only person freaked out by the fact that the pharmacist was ****ing armed?

Guess this is one of those cultural difference things.

--
"I'm Commander Shepard, and you're standing in the biggest library in Citadel Space. Look me up."

Why would it be alarming that a law-abiding citizen has a weapon?

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Perfectly reasonable as far as I'm concerned. One, why the hell did he have a weapon. Two, dear lord, if I'm shopping somewhere and an armed robber enters and demands drugs, give them the god damn drugs. Hell, don't even call the police, do absolutely nothing to create a hostage situation or any sort of situation whatsoever that could lead to anyone feeling using a gun might be warranted. Just give them the drugs and get them out of there; I'd much rather the drugs get stolen cleanly than anyone be put in danger of being shot and killed.

--
http://www.nbc.com/parks-and-recreation/exclusives/ron-dancing-animated.gif