Current Events > Jesus, the Last Week Tonight about student loan debt was infuriating.

(+) Yeah! (+)

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Outright forgiveness is a massive f*** you to everyone who worked two jobs or took bulls*** jobs or struggled or whatever the f*** else paying off s***.

Only if you're petty and begrudging of others getting benefits you don't also benefit from.

DrizztLink posted...

Not really.

This is like saying the polio vaccine was a massive fuck you to people who already have polio.

People don't choose to get polio.
People don't choose to go on vacation or spend their money on entertainment or leisure in return for being injected with polio.

streamofthesky posted...

People don't choose to get polio.

Correct.

streamofthesky posted...

People don't choose to go on vacation or spend their money on entertainment or leisure in return for being injected with polio.

Pointless word salad.

45% points awarded.

streamofthesky posted...

People don't choose to get polio.
People don't choose to go on vacation or spend their money on entertainment or leisure in return for being injected with polio.

unless you grew up in the late 90s or early 00s, where you were told you have to go to college if you don't want to flip burgers at mcdonalds for the rest of your life

streamofthesky posted...

People don't choose to get polio.
People don't choose to go on vacation or spend their money on entertainment or leisure in return for being injected with polio.

The school to college propaganda was so intense in the 90s/00s/10s that we manipulated many people into thinking the only way to succeed in life was to take on these massively insane loans so they could get a job in a field they care about and make enough to support themselves and a family. Hell, the desire to afford college was made so intense that many people joined the military solely to (better) afford college

Yes, it is a 'choice' ultimately. However, when everyone, from your parents and trusted advisors to employers straight up barring all applications without a degree attached, and everything, from the government to private organizations, is telling you the only path forward is with a degree then you can forgive these people for feeling they had no choice.

the school to college propaganda's still insane, it's just even worse now because literally the only jobs they present to be valid are stem jobs

streamofthesky posted...

People don't choose to get polio.
People don't choose to go on vacation or spend their money on entertainment or leisure in return for being injected with polio.

And the slaves that paid for their freedom? Do they deserve restitution?

Outright forgiveness is a massive fuck you to everyone who worked two jobs or took bullshit jobs or struggled or whatever the fuck else paying off shit.

Hi, Im a guy who worked two jobs to pay off my undergrad and masters student loan debt.

This is not sustainable to have a functioning society. Forgive it now.

We need to treat student loans like other loans: only give them to people who statically can actually pay them back and stratify rates based on risk.

Tuition is gonna drop real fast when a 17yo can't sign up for $200k in debt for an art degree

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Forgive interest accrued.

Go by principle amount lent and deduct lifetime payment.

Thats the only reasonable way.

Outright forgiveness is a massive fuck you to everyone who worked two jobs or took bullshit jobs or struggled or whatever the fuck else paying off shit.

Yall trying to moral grandstand on Youre being selfish is thinly veiled bullshit.

You already payed it is a callous response to Can I get my money back?.

But yall dont care because it doesnt affect you. How ironic.

the classic conundrum

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5504722b.jpg

TimeForAction posted...

the classic conundrum

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5504722b.jpg

lmfao I love this

The entire system needs torpedo'd, from student loans to out of control college tuition and expenses.

daftpunk_mk5 posted...

We need to treat student loans like other loans: only give them to people who statically can actually pay them back and stratify rates based on risk.

No we don't because that will widen the gap between the already wealthy and those who are not even further. Every citizen should have a chance for a higher education to better themselves. To say otherwise is fucking stupid and will do nothing but doom your country.

daftpunk_mk5 posted...

Tuition is gonna drop real fast when a 17yo can't sign up for $200k in debt for an art degree

Can you find a 200k art degree that you are so obviously referencing here?

TimeForAction posted...

the classic conundrum

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5504722b.jpg

Every day we live with current manufacturing regulations is spiting in the face of those who died in the Triangle shirt factory fire!

ClayGuida posted...

How so?

Is Medicare or medicaid a big FU to those that pay for health insurance?

No. Because theres a prerequisite for both medicare and medicaid. Either age, an illness, or low income.

Yall are asking forgiveness for who? Anyone who took out loans? Lmao.

Comparing it to social programs like medicaid is unbelievably stupid.

wackyteen posted...

Only if you're petty and begrudging of others getting benefits you don't also benefit from.

Neat.

TheGoldenEel posted...

Really dumb to assume that people who are pro-forgiveness are strictly people who have outstanding loans

If not, I have an even lesser opinion of the stance. So cool?

DrizztLink posted...

Not really.

This is like saying the polio vaccine was a massive fuck you to people who already have polio.

Only if you dont know how analogies work. Polio is not a choice.

Idgaf about pressure. Its still a choice. A choice that if even a sliver of students can choose to not do, I no longer care. Just because the average nitwit wont read loan agreements and actually take some forethought in life doesnt mean outright forgiveness is needed.

Especially not before medical debt forgiveness.

Fuck off.

Heineken14 posted...

Can you find a 200k art degree that you are so obviously referencing here?

https://www.scad.edu/admission/tuition-and-fees/undergraduate

Annual tuition
Based on three courses per quarter enrollment for three quarters.Total, full-time student for one academic year - US$40,095

That's $160,380 on tuition alone, presuming absolutely no increases over the next 4 years. That does not include any additional fees, any meals, any housing, or anything else somebody may need.

Now, obviously, SCAD is one of, if not, the top art school in the US/world.

But you can spend $200K on an art degree.

And what is it going to get you? A soul crushing job at Didney that will never pay enough for you to actually afford $200K in student loans

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Idgaf about pressure. Its still a choice. A choice that if even a sliver of students can choose to not do, I no longer care. Just because the average nitwit wont read loan agreements and actually take some forethought in life doesnt mean outright forgiveness is needed.

Society made a seeming promise to them that with a degree they'd find a job with their degree.

Society failed to mention that all of our resumes would wind up in an AI's shred box or that our thousands of hours of blood, sweat and tears would be glossed over in 8 seconds by a hiring manager before being tossed in the (proverbial) bin if said resumes made it past the barely held together sorting algorithm.

Blaming children for accepting loans on the promise of a false future is pretty fucking cruel.

While life is cruel, we should provide for those that have been exploited and seek to shelter future generations from being exploited in a similar manner. Otherwise, what's the point of any of this? If everything is "fuck off, fuck you, got mine" or "fuck off, should've picked better" then don't be surprised when people kick you off the cliff you're dangling from.

Tuition is gonna drop real fast when a 17yo can't sign up for $200k in debt

Maybe we can regulate the loan side then. Instead of trying to dictate who is allowed to better their education.

TimeForAction posted...

the classic conundrum

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5504722b.jpg

Damn, that's amazing.

I usually go with, "we should never try to improve society going forward because it wasn't that way for me".

The epitome of selfishness who when I was a child talked about how they wanted a better future/quality of life for their children. Now they actively justify making it worse for them than they had it and how it's our fault for "wanting avocado toast and Starbucks".

Right-wing political propaganda has truly corrupted this country.

wackyteen posted...

Society made a seeming promise to them that with a degree they'd find a job with their degree.

Society failed to mention that all of our resumes would wind up in an AI's shred box or that our thousands of hours of blood, sweat and tears would be glossed over in 8 seconds by a hiring manager before being tossed in the (proverbial) bin if said resumes made it past the barely held together sorting algorithm.

Blaming children for accepting loans on the promise of a false future is pretty fucking cruel.

While life is cruel, we should provide for those that have been exploited and seek to shelter future generations from being exploited in a similar manner. Otherwise, what's the point of any of this? If everything is "fuck off, fuck you, got mine" or "fuck off, should've picked better" then don't be surprised when people kick you off the cliff you're dangling from.

Get medical debt first if you really wanna help people.

Forgiving loans and then having the same fucking loan situation exist to just start again does nothing but give people a chance to pat themselves on the back.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Yall are asking forgiveness for who? Anyone who took out loans? Lmao.

I was very clear.

Really need to raze that system and start it over. Forgive all student loan debt, remove all current student loan debt companies, and start fresh with better oversight and better management.

The system is absolute dog shit and has corrupted the concept of higher education. Forgive all student loans, create a new system and infrastructure and start from there.

I'm all for people paying student loan debt. I am not in favor of companies acting as loan sharks with ridiculous and impossible to meet interest rates.

If you owe 70k, you shouldn't have to pay 250k to end the loan. You shouldn't have to pay 650 dollars a month to whittle down 65 dollars on your principal. It's not that hard to understand or see why this system is a failure.

emblem-man posted...

Tbh, people would probably get a bit mad at that as well as it ultimately means less people going to college. Which is not necessarily bad if jobs reduce requirements for entry level jobs

The problem is a lot of people would get screwed during the adjustment period.

A college degree is still a huge differentiator in future earnings.

At the bare minimum student loans should legally be interest free.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

At the bare minimum student loans should legally be interest free.

Then no one would offer them other than the govt. And even then...

Students are high risk when it comes to loans. You're giving new adults with no real credit history and little collateral tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they could discharge through bankruptcy or didn't offer a profit margin through interest, no one would offer them. Itd be a really dumb investment. And then you're back to the same problem of "a college degree is a huge factor in future earnings. So the have nots will be even more screwed".

This isn't a defense of the current system. But it is a complicated issue. Without loans it'll be harder for people to get that piece of paper, but it's possible it will drive down the expectation for it. But with the infinite money right now... colleges just keep asking for more and more.

This is why I'm pro forgiveness, but ONLY AFTER we figure out how to depress costs. Otherwise it's just a giant taxpayer subsidy to colleges and banks.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Get medical debt first if you really wanna help people.

Forgiving loans and then having the same f***ing loan situation exist to just start again does nothing but give people a chance to pat themselves on the back.

At least with medical debt, if it stays unpaid, it doesn't charge a fucking interest rate that balloons the debt from costing $200k (upfront) to $600K by the time you're finally able to pay it off.

We can forgive (some) debt, cap interests rates, cap the total amount of interest that can be accrued and force (public) universities to go through a hard tuition reset if they want to continue benefitting from government resources and funding and continue to market themselves as a Public University.

We need to gut the whole system and bleed it drier than the Sahara. That will take time though and we can start with the most debilitating, immediate symptoms

Goldice posted...

Then no one would offer them other than the govt.

The role of government is to provide for its citizenry.

If the government cannot afford to offer these kinds of loans or provide a system in which education is affordable to all then the government is a failing or failed state.

Goldice posted...

Then no one would offer them other than the govt. And even then...

Students are high risk when it comes to loans. You're giving new adults with no real credit history and little collateral tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they could discharge through bankruptcy or didn't offer a profit margin through interest, no one would offer them. Itd be a really dumb investment. And then you're back to the same problem of "a college degree is a huge factor in future earnings. So the have nots will be even more screwed".

This isn't a defense of the current system. But it is a complicated issue. Without loans it'll be harder for people to get that piece of paper, but it's possible it will drive down the expectation for it. But with the infinite money right now... colleges just keep asking for more and more.

This is why I'm pro forgiveness, but ONLY AFTER we figure out how to depress costs. Otherwise it's just a giant taxpayer subsidy to colleges and banks.

I love when people say something won't work, when it already does.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Only if you dont know how analogies work. Polio is not a choice.

Idgaf about pressure. Its still a choice. A choice that if even a sliver of students can choose to not do, I no longer care. Just because the average nitwit wont read loan agreements and actually take some forethought in life doesnt mean outright forgiveness is needed.

Especially not before medical debt forgiveness.

Fuck off.

I'd be more inclined to believe you cared about medical debt if you weren't blatantly and exclusively self-interested.

DrizztLink posted...

I'd be more inclined to believe you cared about medical debt if you weren't blatantly and exclusively self-interested.

What does this even mean.

Only on the internet will random dudes just ignore your words and make up your intentions instead lmao.

I care about medical debt more than school debt. Neither particularly affects me, currently.

Heineken14 posted...

No we don't because that will widen the gap between the already wealthy and those who are not even further. Every citizen should have a chance for a higher education to better themselves. To say otherwise is fucking stupid and will do nothing but doom your country.

Can you find a 200k art degree that you are so obviously referencing here?

Everyone would still have a chance at an education. It'll just be a significantly higher barrier to entry, which is exactly what we need with how many college graduates can't find a job in their field

daftpunk_mk5 posted...

Everyone would still have a chance at an education. It'll just be a significantly higher barrier to entry, which is exactly what we need with how many college graduates can't find a job in their field

Very Republican post here.

wackyteen posted...

https://news.wisc.edu/uw-madison-enrollment-tops-50000-freshman-class-includes-second-highest-number-ever-of-wisconsin-residents/

50,000 students.

They're making at least $560M off of tuition alone

Well, no, because 50,000 students aren't paying full tuition costs. The average student pays $17,000/year after financial aid

It can be overstated how monumental and impactful Biden canceling so much student loan debt is for the country. It's such a fucked up, predatory system that serves no one but greedy, useless corporations, as usual. It keeps millions enslaved for their lives.

Imagine the financial progress and boost for the economy we'd have with student loans fully canceled.

Of course, chucklefuck Republicans knee-jerk any attempts to reform this, since they must blindly oppose anything a Democrat does.