Board 8 > What four games are on the Mario Games Mount Rushmore?

(+) Yeah! (+)

LeonhartFour posted...

And most of that stuff got brought back too

When Nintendo wants to do nostalgia pulls in Mario games, they almost always pull from 3 or World for a reason (and 64 occasionally in stuff like Galaxy 2)

I'm just saying I don't think the case on 3 is better than World. Now the best case against either is really just that they are from the same time as the other one.

LeonhartFour posted...

3, World, and 64 will be in the top 5 most popular Mario games wherever you go, not just here

I'd sooner drop 1 than any of those three but its overall impact is kinda undeniable (unlike Donkey Kong)

Are you absolutely certain that places with younger userbases will pick games they probably haven't played over those they have like Galaxy or Odyssey

Also are you actually implying Donkey Kong's influence is smaller than 3 or World???

Hbthebattle posted...

That's my point! All consoles experience this trend. The exact numbers might not be the same, but the ratios and proportions are consistent.

Oh no, I was just not including 2005-2006 for PS2 though. My point was I was comparing the PS3 era (when PS2 should have been dead) to a time when the Wii was still years off is successor. That should tell you something completely different.

"Back half" of ps2 has to include mgs3, god of war 1, persona 3, ff12, kh2, devil may cry 3 probably too many to count of my ead. It's not close lmao

Leonhart4 posted...

This is literally the first mention of NSMBWii I've heard in literally years

That game is forgotten except when someone wants to argue Mario 3 is outdated in this topic

It's not forgotten among younger people is my impression. It seems fo me like it's still a very big deal I'd we go a generation younger than us. Multiplayer speaks for itself. I would not include it either, but the case is good enough.

Hbthebattle posted...

Also are you actually implying Donkey Kong's influence is smaller than 3 or World???

Yep

people arguing for Donkey Kong's inclusion here be wilin'

This isnt mainline only. MK8D is an easy inclusion for Kart representation and being the best selling Mario game, it has sold over 6x SM64 ffs.

SMB
SM64
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

Cant decide a 4th

Donkey Kong doesn't belong on Mario rushmore for sure. Nintendo using the same guy for a bunch of things at the time pretty much randomly makes it the start of the franchisebut SMB, but it's not like it really shaped it much more than Excitebike. SMB1 is the first one there for sure.

pjbasis posted...

"Back half" of ps2 has to include mgs3, god of war 1, persona 3, ff12, kh2, devil may cry 3 probably too many to count off my head. It's not close lmao

wait mg3 is 2004 I always forget.

Replace it with like jak 3 and ratchet 3

Ok then by your own arguments you're out of your mind

Let's look at Odyssey - what big nostalgic callbacks did it do?
Mario 1 with 2D segments, Galaxy with Moon Kingdom.... and of course, the big one, Donkey Kong with the NDC Festival. The centerpoint of the game's advertising.

The game's biggest Easter Egg is being able to visit Peach's Castle from Mario 64.

But Donkey Kong getting an homage in New Donk City doesn't put it on the Rushmore here.

I can't argue that Donkey Kong had a lot of pop culture sway even before Mario.

But I guess I just like throwing it to the DK rushmore.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I mean most of those power ups got removed again. You could also say World introduced ghost houses, Yoshi, Magikoopas, Wiggles and of course most importantly secret exits and special worlds with more difficulty which feels like a bigger deal than the Bros 3 stuff, although Bros 3 coming first is an argument for that one.

The point is not that SMB3 introduced that stuff specifically but introduced a feel of abundance and diversity in the presentation of the items and the worlds not present before that point

Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario 64
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

Tough one as I was considering Donkey Kong, 3, World, and Galaxy as well but I was trying to encompass different eras and playstyles

ok but your argument for 3 and World is that they get callbacks all the time, so either DK belongs or they all don't

Lopen posted...

The point is not that SMB3 introduced that stuff specifically but introduced a feel of abundance and diversity in the presentation of the items and the worlds not present before that point

Yeah, Mario 3's influence is really being undersold here. The template for 2-D Mario games from that point is 3, not 1.

Hbthebattle posted...

ok but your argument for 3 and World is that they get callbacks all the time, so either DK belongs or they all don't

uhhhh

DK getting one homage is not the same as all the stuff 3 and World get in literally every Mario game

PS2 is a weird comparison point since it had an unusually long tail. If youre looking at its actual lifespan half of those games are not late on. Also MGS3 didnt sell very well even if it counts. With that said, theres no denying that the Wii saw a massive crash in the last two years of its life. But that doesnt really matter here since the game in question came before then and Wii nostalgia has definitely arrived, especially in people a few years younger than us.

Super Mario Bros
Super Mario 64
Super Mario World
Super Mario Odyssey

Ifrit posted...

Super Mario Brothers
Super Mario Brothers 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64

It's kind of hard to not say this.

Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 64

LeonhartFour posted...

DK getting one homage is not the same as all the stuff 3 and World get in literally every Mario game

but they don't get that in every Mario game, unless you're counting "Yoshi appears" as world nostalgia

Hbthebattle posted...

yeah but there's the rub: you guys are including 1 AND 3 AND World. In other words, the only era you guys think matters is the NES/SNES/64 - in other words, gamefaqs on its usual bullshit.

The real Rushmore was filled with old Presidents too

MacArrowny posted...

The real Rushmore was filled with old Presidents too

Roosevelt wasn't old when it was being built, though, and Lincoln was still within living memory.

Not everything is gonna have a perfect ratio of new and old.

Also would anyone be opposed to Super Mario Kart being up there instead of Mario Kart 8? MK8 might be the biggest but it was a monster sales franchise from inception.

nope, it has to be MK8, it's doing double duty as representing the switch era

MK64 is a much better choice than SMK imo. SMK was a bit hit, but 64 had more players thanks to 4 player

Yes. It was always big but didnt become a monster until DS, and 8 took it to the next level. 8 also represents the culmination of all the series has built to with an absurd amount of content.

I think people just overthink this trying to have "fair representation" when sometimes the boring, obvious answer is the right one

FUCK representing eras, eras do not need representation if the era sucks

BUT I guess it does have all those legacy tracks.
And it will be the standard bearer for the series going forward, alright you got me.

pjbasis posted...

FUCK representing eras, eras do not need representation if the era sucks

neither the wii or switch suck so we're good

Super Mario Bros
Super Mario 64
New Super Mario Bros WII
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

Mario Kart Wii
Super Mario Bros
Mario 64
Donkey Kong (I assume it counts)

SMB
World
64
Galaxy

Hbthebattle posted...

neither the wii or switch suck so we're good

I'll meet you halfway

I'm for representing eras if it makes any sort of sense

Mario Kart 8 I think is a decent rep because it represents "the new" and "all the crossover stuff" the latter of which as a whole I think is pretty significant to the overall Mario Brand at this point, but like am I gonna take off SMB3 for SMW or Super Mario Odyssey just cause they're on different consoles? Absolutely not.

Donkey Kong
Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario 64

So without reading anything else, I'm going with

Super Mario Bros
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Oh I just noticed you disqualified Smash for some reason?

Then change my last one to uh, Odyssey

Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Bros 3
Super Mario 64
New Super Mario Bros Wii

I buy the argument that multiplayer platforming is part of the Mario brand. Everything else is basically a lock.

Waluigi1 posted...

Oh I just noticed you disqualified Smash for some reason?

Smash games aren't Mario games

fine switch super Kart to kart 8

Super Mario Brothers
Super Mario Brothers 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64

LeonhartFour posted...

Smash games aren't Mario games

They're clearly a Mario spin off game. I mean look at the title lol

Waluigi1 posted...

They're clearly a Mario spin off game. I mean look at the title lol

Having "Bros." in the title doesn't make them Mario games

they're Kirby games

I'd probably sooner call Smash games Kirby spinoff games than Mario spinoff games (I wouldn't call them that either)

Lol OK well at least I have reaffirmation that feel isn't completely absurd

Super Mario Bros
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 8

Leonhart4 posted...

Mario 1
Mario 3
Mario World
Mario 64

Easy

yeah I think this is just my vote

I considered Mario Kart but I actually dont think there is a true consensus there

Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 64
New Super Mario Bros.

First, I don't really buy into raw sales numbers as an absolute metric when you're comparing across console generations as distant as these. Mario Kart 8 is the best selling Mario game because the video game industry and its audience have grown in orders of magnitude in the last 15 years, but that doesn't necessarily align with impact; Mario Party 8 outsold the first Super Smash Bros. game, but you wouldn't put that up on a "Party Games Mount Rushmore."

Mario Kart 64 doesn't have quite the same proportional attach rate that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe does - ~30% compared to 8's ~42% - but I think it's important to acknowledge two things. First, the significance of lineage and influence, obviously, but also the fact that Mario Kart 64 is basically the birth of four player couch co-op and a precursor to the entire party game subgenre. It was inescapable during its time in a way that I don't feel 8 really is. Despite its sales, I don't think 8 is even the Switch's preeminent party game, SSBU has a much greater cultural presence.

As for New Super Mario Bros., the first NSMB game came out in 2006. It was the best selling DS game, and each subsequent entry (barring the port of U) was also a top 5 selling game on its respective console. I know I dismissed raw sales numbers earlier, but taken as a trend, between this and its continued presence in Super Mario Maker, NSMB has been one of the strongest major presences in the Mario franchise for close to 20 years. It outsold contemporaneous 3D Mario games. An entire generation has had these games as a major reference point for what Mario is.

Yeah that's the thing - NSMB has been "the default" for Mario for nearly 20 years now. That can not be ignored. When people think nonspecific Mario characters, it's how they're depicted in NSMB.

They're bad Mario games though. That should definitely be a factor.