Current Events > People really wanted FF7 remake to be one 300 hour RPG that took 15 years to do?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Seems the vision was Kitase wanted to seriously mess with the game LOL.

Dude probably wanted to just make a new game kinda sad.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/05/
interview_final_fantasy_vii_remake_producer_and_co-director_
on_development_launch_and_being_grateful_for_the_fans

Final Fantasy VII Remake expands on the Midgar story arc significantly. When developing the game, how did you decide on the parts that you wanted to expand?
Kitase: I personally envisioned quite a dramatic change overall, but our director; Tetsuya Nomura and co-director; Naoki Hamaguchi, wanted to keep the beloved aspects in the original as much as possible. Eventually the development team decided to focus on respecting the original while adding in new elements, ensuring a delicate balance between the two.

No the fans wanted a mostly faithful remake that got rid of the shitty 3D non battle models from the original. Square Enix wanted to turn game into a marketing vehicle once again instead stretching out this compilation for likely a decade.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


oh, then what you said makes even less sense.

Xerun posted...

Does anyone actually think itll only be 3 parts? It seems like theres too much to do in part 3 to cover everything thats left

It's already been more than 3 technically considering the Crisis Core remake and that they tried to make some of the spinoffs lore relevant.

kage_53 posted...

Then it will be pointless.

Only reason console version has that feature is because they are on different platforms.

The console version does not have this feature.

You get a bonus for having a save file from Remake is all which is a summon.
No levels.
No gear.

It's huge as fuck because it's full of padding.

Remake was almost a glorified walking simulator.

Number090684 posted...

No the fans wanted a mostly faithful remake that got rid of the shitty 3D non battle models from the original. Square Enix wanted to turn game into a marketing vehicle once again instead stretching out this compilation for likely a decade.

Basically, this.

I still haven't beat the first one. I like the story telling but the combat encounters take forever to get through

This is tiring. SE wants to make money, but also a good product. FF7 is their magnum opus so of course they feel the need to go all out. High fidelity 3d assets with mocap and voice acting take much much longer to make. In fact making rebirth in just 4 years seems to be more of an exception for AAA games. Kitase attributed this to reusing assets and maintaining over 80% of the team who worked on remake.

Remake is what it is cause money AND wanting to create the best game they can and since Rebirth got the best scores for an FF game in decades, we can say theyre succeeding.

I see SO many people saying things like....

"I'll get it when it's all together in one piece."

And

"I'll wait for the PC version."

And

"I'll wait for the PS6 version trilogy ultimate edition that will have everything together!"

DUDE.

No you won't. If you wanted to play these games you'd buy and play them today. If that version of this ever exists you probably won't even be interested in playing it by then because it will be like 6+ years from now and there will be other games coming out.

If you like FF7 and want to experience the original game with some nicer visuals, get the Steam version and Mod the hell out of it with the Seventh Heaven mod manager.

If you want NEW content, lore, and gameplay with familiar FF7 stuff in it (AKA an adaptation) then buy Intergrade and Rebirth.

SilvosForever posted...

If you like FF7 and want to experience the original game with some nicer visuals, get the Steam version and Mod the hell out of it with the Seventh Heaven mod manager.

Interestingly, I actually do think this is the best thing actual fans of the game should do.

TC, why do you feel the need to defend your opinion on the FF7R series so much? I mean, honestly, who cares?

VirtuousWrath posted...

Interestingly, I actually do think this is the best thing actual fans of the game should do.

TC, why do you feel the need to defend your opinion on the FF7R series so much? I mean, honestly, who cares?

Because if you frequent any board, thread, or place of discussion of the Remake games, there are CONSTANT complainers about the same old jack. They out-voice the people who quietly like these games.

I've never seen games this good get this much hate, when they delivered exactly what the game devs wanted all along.

The narrow-minded people who dismiss them off-hand for not being pure 1:1 or being pure turn-based, or not having identical layouts and dialogue and story beats - THAT is infuriating. Because they're stating that something so clearly good is bad for completely contrived reasons.

It's venting basically. But maybe there's a 2% chance that one of these hyper-critical people will come into these games with a fresher attitude and realize that "Hey, this game is pretty good actually".

I love OG FF7 to death. It's not going anywhere. But it's possible to also love these new games, and realize that they can co-exist while being different. They compliment each other.

It's on my mind a lot lately and this board is where I come to jettison such issues into the void.

As someone who never played the original, FF7 Remake honestly just felt like a complete game to me.

Haven't gotten to Rebirth yet. Been busy with BG3

I'd have rather had a singular, slightly expanded RPG that wasn't trying to be a Kingdom Hearts-level clusterfuck.

SilvosForever posted...

I've never seen games this good get this much hate,

Now why would a game get hate if it did everything fans wanted according to you?

Think it over.

SilvosForever posted...

If you want NEW content, lore, and gameplay with familiar FF7 stuff in it (AKA an adaptation) then buy Intergrade and Rebirth.

So maybe they didn't want that. Ever think about it like that?

To quote a famous line:
"You think you do, but you don't"

WingsOfGood posted...

Now why would a game get hate if it did everything fans wanted according to you?

Think it over.

So maybe they didn't want that. Ever think about it like that?

To quote a famous line:
"You think you do, but you don't"

Because they're living in the past. Boomers basically. The idea that they want doesn't work. They want the DS port of Chrono Trigger of FF7. It's like people who want to drink fresh water, and only ask for another bucket to collect it with from their well. SE pulls up and installs a whole goddamn pipe system in their house. And then they bitch about they didn't want something so big, they just wanted another bucket.

Fuck man. Have a little ambition.

SilvosForever posted...

Because they're living in the past. Boomers basically. The idea that they want doesn't work. They want the DS port of Chrono Trigger of FF7. It's like people who want to drink fresh water, and only ask for another bucket to collect it with from their well. SE pulls up and installs a whole goddamn pipe system in their house. And then they bitch about they didn't want something so big, they just wanted another bucket.

Fuck man. Have a little ambition.

Do you know the context of you think you do but you don't?

WingsOfGood posted...

Do you know the context of you think you do but you don't?

TBH I've never heard that phrase in my life and I kinda DGAF.

I for one love that they expanded on the FF7 universe. I don't care about the "fluff" complaints.

The internet sure is a funny place this week. On one hand you've got people gushing over the Netflix Avatar adaptation for 'trimming the fat' from the original, and on the other you've got people gushing over FF7 getting the 'Hobbit' treatment to the Nth degree.

Yes, yes, I know someone is aching to Ctrl+V the 'It's almost like different people have different opinions' line after reading that, but let's not pretend that particular Venn diagram is two perfectly separate circles.

Jupiter posted...

I for one love that they expanded on the FF7 universe. I don't care about the "fluff" complaints.

That's what I'm saying.

It's like this: The original game was what, 40 hours? More if you do everything.

Imagine it like a 300 page book. A good read you could get through in a weekend (this is just an analogy).

Now, imagine if the original writers of that book, who had a TON of scrapped ideas and side stories and other tales to tell, came back and did a NEW version of that book and added in ALL the stories they originally had planned. And elaborated on everything. So the new version of the book comes out with an appendix and it's a 1200 page epic.

People who loved that original book would probably be excited as fuck for this new book. But instead of selling it as one 1200 page volume, they split it up into three 400 page books so they're more digestible for the readers.

And it also lets them get the first part out much much sooner instead of having to wait for the whole thing. AND it makes them more money, which is obviously the whole point of all this.

This is basically what is happening here with these video games. Yes it's a story told in 3 parts. But please understand - there is WAY more events and characters and STORY here than was in the original thing. THAT'S why it's three complete "experiences". Three parts to one big story.

You can argue up and down whether the new stuff is "filler" or "bad" but to me it's not THAT different from the "canon" stuff in either scope or nature. SO I kinda don't understand some of the complaints.

Call Remake a hallway simulator if you want, that's fair. But it was still a better game than FF13 and FF15 and Rebirth is a top 5 FF of all time. And by god it's NEW. Familiar but NEW. If you don't like Rebirth then I guess you don't like FF. Or you only used to like FF and have for some reason drawn the line arbitrarily in the sand at "FF games MUST be turn-based".

In that case go buy Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default and forget FF exists.

SilvosForever posted...

That's what I'm saying.

It's like this: The original game was what, 40 hours? More if you do everything.

Imagine it like a 300 page book. A good read you could get through in a weekend (this is just an analogy).

Now, imagine if the original writers of that book, who had a TON of scrapped ideas and side stories and other tales to tell, came back and did a NEW version of that book and added in ALL the stories they originally had planned. And elaborated on everything. So the new version of the book comes out with an appendix and it's a 1200 page epic.

People who loved that original book would probably be excited as fuck for this new book. But instead of selling it as one 1200 page volume, they split it up into three 400 page books so they're more digestible for the readers.

And it also lets them get the first part out much much sooner instead of having to wait for the whole thing. AND it makes them more money, which is obviously the whole point of all this.

This is basically what is happening here with these video games. Yes it's a story told in 3 parts. But please understand - there is WAY more events and characters and STORY here than was in the original thing. THAT'S why it's three complete "experiences". Three parts to one big story.

You can argue up and down whether the new stuff is "filler" or "bad" but to me it's not THAT different from the "canon" stuff in either scope or nature. SO I kinda don't understand some of the complaints.

Call Remake a hallway simulator if you want, that's fair. But it was still a better game than FF13 and FF15 and Rebirth is a top 5 FF of all time. And by god it's NEW. Familiar but NEW. If you don't like Rebirth then I guess you don't like FF. Or you only used to like FF and have for some reason drawn the line arbitrarily in the sand at "FF games MUST be turn-based".

In that case go buy Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default and forget FF exists.

You come off as trying to convince people to like something they don't like. For example in your book analogy just because the writers make a new book doesn't mean people will like it. Now imagine if people actually asked for something specifically and the writers said they don't want to give that but something else instead. Things get scrapped for good reasons. You would be surprised how much scrapped stuff that had they been put into books movies would have basically ruined them. There is whole documentaries showing how George Lucas was on the brink of ruining Star Wars if not for his team being smart about what to not put in it.
Perhaps a good analogy would be fans of Game of Thrones asking for a new edition of the show that doesn't stray from the books but a network makes a new show and it completely strays from the books and makes a bunch of filler. Then when fans say that they hate this people get upset saying are you complaining about more Game of Thrones?
Then again perhaps Star Wars is the place to look. We got more Star Wars. New stories. How did the fans receive it? Is Star Wars in a good place as an IP right now? Was the newest movies good for it?
What if they remade Star Wars 1970 films today and decided to change things around and make it from 3 movies in 7 movies?

darkphoenix181 posted...

You come off as trying to convince people to like something they don't like. For example in your book analogy just because the writers make a new book doesn't mean people will like it. Now imagine if people actually asked for something specifically and the writers said they don't want to give that but something else instead. Things get scrapped for good reasons. You would be surprised how much scrapped stuff that had they been put into books movies would have basically ruined them. There is whole documentaries showing how George Lucas was on the brink of ruining Star Wars if not for his team being smart about what to not put in it.
Perhaps a good analogy would be fans of Game of Thrones asking for a new edition of the show that doesn't stray from the books but a network makes a new show and it completely strays from the books and makes a bunch of filler. Then when fans say that they hate this people get upset saying are you complaining about more Game of Thrones?
Then again perhaps Star Wars is the place to look. We got more Star Wars. New stories. How did the fans receive it? Is Star Wars in a good place as an IP right now? Was the newest movies good for it?
What if they remade Star Wars 1970 films today and decided to change things around and make it from 3 movies in 7 movies?

I wouldn't say that Remake or Rebirth "completely stray" from the originals' story, and trying to imply that is dishonest at best and a fucking lie at worst.

SilvosForever posted...

I wouldn't say that Remake or Rebirth "completely stray" from the originals' story, and trying to imply that is dishonest at best and a fucking lie at worst.

He's just mad with the changes that were made, most notably in the entire ending sequence/final battles.

"People really wanted FF7 remake to be one 300 hour RPG that took 15 years to do?"

I know some just wanted a 1:1 remake. That would be neither 300 hours, or take 15 years to complete.

Xenogears15 posted...

He's just mad with the changes that were made, most notably in the entire ending sequence/final battles.

That ending doesn't change the story though. Like - at all. It's basically just a new encounter with Sephiroth.

If anything it gives an in-universe explanation for why future events may deviate from the original timeline of events. Which is kinda meta.

I mean without this, if they deviate from the story AT ALL then it makes no sense. With THIS though, the original timeline completely EXISTS even within the universe of Rebirth and is STILL CANON, while the new events ARE ALSO canon. This allows them, in universe, without contradiction, to keep the new events AND old events relevant within the plot.

Now if you're saying that "timeline bullshit" is a stupid and contrived - fine. But to me it's just another tool for story telling and I don't hate it.

At first I was annoyed. My first playthrough I was kinda iffy about it but then I replayed and I realized I liked it.

Honestly, there's just a lot of 'emptiness' if you wanted to put in new graphics. You're asking them to, after midgar, is to create a game with new high end graphics without putting in the actual world. The original game had a world map that was clearly miniature size but that would be stupid in today's world because they can do so much more so building a huge world is the better option.

The problem is that it would cause a lot of emptiness since there wouldn't be much to do so you want to fill it with something.

Thing is, I can see them making Remake all in Midgar for two reasons:

1. There was not a lot of time in Midgar. Its nice that they put all that effort into giving us more.
2. It would be difficult to find a stopping point for the game by leaving Midgar. Its like writing a paragraph. You don't want to change subjects mid paragraph.

I can see the third game being strictly all the rest of the game with less fluff since there's a lot to put in and you do a lot of back tracking anyway.

The timeline aspect of the game makes it feel less like a retelling and more of a sequel which I think is what they wanted to do.

Plus imagine them making the first game without the fluff? "I paid 60 dollars for this short ass game! SE IS GREEDY!"

SilvosForever posted...

Because they're living in the past. Boomers basically. The idea that they want doesn't work. They want the DS port of Chrono Trigger of FF7. It's like people who want to drink fresh water, and only ask for another bucket to collect it with from their well. SE pulls up and installs a whole goddamn pipe system in their house. And then they bitch about they didn't want something so big, they just wanted another bucket.

Fuck man. Have a little ambition.

If I wasn't on Game ef ay queues dot com, this would be the dead giveaway

The Remake falls into a weird spot because to me, it really doesn't feel like it's for genuine fans of how the old FF games used to be.

Overall, the game is satisfactory but I found it to be padded, lackluster and just overall kind of meh.

Plus, the game is like a quasi-dating sim which I wasn't a huge fan of in addition to its combat being meh when compared to the old ATB system.

some of us never wanted Squeenix to dump millions of dollars and more than a decade of effort into a remake when they could have just created new, interesting ideas instead. like, FF7 is good, but nowhere near good enough to justify spending 60-80 hours three separate times, especially in disconnected chunks ~5 years apart.

VirtuousWrath posted...

The Remake falls into a weird spot because to me, it really doesn't feel like it's for genuine fans of how the old FF games used to be.

Well it surely isn't for new fans seeing as how people say you gotta play the original, Crisis Core, and whatever thousand spin offs spawned from it.

Makes you wonder how well SE expected this 3 part remake to do when its solely catering to a section of diehard FF7 lovers.

Honestly, did Remake even sell as much as they were hoping it did with how expensive I'm sure these games have gotten? I remember seeing it not sell as much as I would think it would have with its legacy behind it.

RealBoy posted...

Well it surely isn't for new fans seeing as how people say you gotta play the original, Crisis Core, and whatever thousand spin offs spawned from it.

You really don't though. At all. You aren't expecting to know anything before going into Remake.

PiOverlord posted...

Honestly, did Remake even sell as much as they were hoping it did with how expensive I'm sure these games have gotten? I remember seeing it not sell as much as I would think it would have with its legacy behind it.

Last I heard, it sold more than the OG in the same time frame. I didn't verify the source though.

This is what I got when I just googled its sales: "The game became one of the fastest-selling PlayStation 4 games, by selling over 3.5 million units within three days and over 7 million units by September 2023."

I think OG is currently at 15 million sales? But that's across it's entire lifetime with a ridiculous amount of ports. Not sure what it sold in just a few years.

They could have done without a lot of the unnecessary padding. But that would prove they absolutely could have put everything into one (maybe two) games

Jupiter posted...

You really don't though. At all. You aren't expecting to know anything before going into Remake.

Last I heard, it sold more than the OG in the same time frame. I didn't verify the source though.

This is what I got when I just googled its sales: "The game became one of the fastest-selling PlayStation 4 games, by selling over 3.5 million units within three days and over 7 million units by September 2023."

I think OG is currently at 15 million sales? But that's across it's entire lifetime with a ridiculous amount of ports. Not sure what it sold in just a few years.

Only problem is inflation and the rising costs of games. 7 mil should be good, but Square has been pretty bad about realistic expectations in the last decade.

Now, hopefully, the dev costs are cheaper with Rebirth and whatever this sequel will be considering they got the groundwork running with Remake, but it's up to Square to not let things get out of control budget wise.

SilvosForever posted...

I see SO many people saying things like....

"I'll get it when it's all together in one piece."

And

"I'll wait for the PC version."

And

"I'll wait for the PS6 version trilogy ultimate edition that will have everything together!"

DUDE.

No you won't. If you wanted to play these games you'd buy and play them today. If that version of this ever exists you probably won't even be interested in playing it by then because it will be like 6+ years from now and there will be other games coming out.

If you like FF7 and want to experience the original game with some nicer visuals, get the Steam version and Mod the hell out of it with the Seventh Heaven mod manager.

If you want NEW content, lore, and gameplay with familiar FF7 stuff in it (AKA an adaptation) then buy Intergrade and Rebirth.

Patently false. It doesnt exist to me until its on Steam, period. If they wanted me to buy it, they should have sold it where Ill shop.

Giant_Aspirin posted...

some of us never wanted Squeenix to dump millions of dollars and more than a decade of effort into a remake when they could have just created new, interesting ideas instead. like, FF7 is good, but nowhere near good enough to justify spending 60-80 hours three separate times, especially in disconnected chunks ~5 years apart.

yes. Thats why they made three new games that are good enough to justify that, because FF7 isnt.

yall are so weird, the way you treat games.

i dont want literally anything to be 300 hours. Hell, Im sick of games being 100 hours, because they usually feel like 20 good hours and 80 hours of tedious crap.

Ill play these eventually. Hopefully modders will be able to mod in actual carryover a la .hack so you dont feel like you wasted dozens of hours grinding and mastering material etc.

PraetorXyn posted...

i dont want literally anything to be 300 hours. Hell, Im sick of games being 100 hours, because they usually feel like 20 good hours and 80 hours of tedious crap.

Ill play these eventually. Hopefully modders will be able to mod in actual carryover a la .hack so you dont feel like you wasted dozens of hours grinding and mastering material etc.

yeah no thats not going to be moddable unless you completely destroy the games balance or do a literal fuckload of unpaid work to basically remake the entirety of combat across two games.

I don't think that many people truly wanted or expected a 1:1 remake, although I guess that depends on your definition of "1:1." In any case, I think that's just a strawman argument that FF7 Remake and Rebirth fanboys like to throw out whenever the games get criticized. It was clear for a long time that the developers were going to expand on the lore of the original, give characters more development and screen time (especially in the cases of Biggs, Jessie, and Wedge), and so on, and yet Remake was still incredibly anticipated and there was a ton of hype for it. The issues are 1) the changes that were made and 2) the way those changes were handled. Personally, I was fine with like 90% of the changes Remake made up to the last couple of hours; the ending and all the stupid BS it introduced into the plot were the things that ruined it. It's like the developers spent a ton of time, money, and effort making the Remake that I and many other people wanted and then said, "No, screw you" at the last minute. And it was pretty obvious from the ending of Remake that the plots of the subsequent installments were going to be a total mess and handled poorly. All I can say after reading about the plot of Rebirth and watching its ending is "I told you so." I'm so glad I'm never going to waste money on this game or the the next one.

I'm waiting for the final game to come out on PC, then I'll get all of them-- because by then I'll be able to afford a gaming quality PC.

Zonbei posted...

yeah no thats not going to be moddable unless you completely destroy the games balance or do a literal fuckload of unpaid work to basically remake the entirety of combat across two games.

Why would I give a fuck about balance in a single player game? If I take the time to grind to max level, why would t I want to be rewarded for it by face rolling everything thereafter? If I didnt want to be overpowered, why would I grind at all? Its not like FF has ever been remotely difficult in the first place.

If I want challenge, Ill play Shin Megami Tensei, FromSoft games, etc. FF is a power fantasy. And getting powerful then being nerfed in the next game is a terrible design decision.

Its also ridiculously stupid they lock Hard behind beating the game once. That Im 100% sure modders will fix.

PraetorXyn posted...

And gettin powerful then being nerfed in the next game is a terrible design decision.

Do you have this complaint with over 90% of sequels in gaming then? Most sequels don't let you steamroll the entire game just because you got max level/gear in the previous game.

Jupiter posted...

Do you have this complaint with over 90% of sequels in gaming then? Most sequels don't let you steamroll the entire game just because you got max level/gear in the previous game.

A game being split into three parts does not make a game and two sequels. They did not make one game then decide to make two games after they were done with it, they set out to make a series of games from the outset. The series as a whole is the sequel, so transference is a natural expectation.

There are barely any tight series like this in JRPGs in general though. Most sequels feature entirely different casts in different worlds in different time periods etc.

I stopped playing the first installment when you're trying to navigate through the train graveyard. All this amazing epic stuff was happening off-screen and there I was, trying to line up trains in a junkyard lol.

PraetorXyn posted...

A game being split into three parts does not make a game and two sequels. They did not make one game then decide to make two games after they were done with it, they set out to make a series of games from the outset. The series as a whole is the sequel, so transference is a natural expectation.

There are barely any tight series like this in JRPGs in general though. Most sequels feature entirely different casts in different worlds in different time periods etc.

That last paragraph makes a natural expectation less natural then, doesnt it? Why would you expect it from something thats basically not been done before?

They have explained why it wasnt worth doing, Im unclear why thats not enough for people. Feels like petulance.

Zonbei posted...

That last paragraph makes a natural expectation less natural then, doesnt it? Why would you expect it from something thats basically not been done before?

They have explained why it wasnt worth doing, Im unclear why thats not enough for people. Feels like petulance.

No it doesnt, because youre likening two completely different things. When they made Tales of Destiny, they didnt know they were going to make however many sequels for it. Same for Star Ocean, probably Dragon Quest, etc. In this case, they knew they were planning to make multiple games from the beginning to encompass a remake of / sequel to a single game. Therein lies the difference. In this case, you expect a seamless experience, whereas when they decide to make one game, then however many years later they decide to make another one they never knew they were going to make, you dont.

Their explanation was balance, which I couldnt give two shits about, and even then, its easy to solve if you just balance the second game around the average level you expect people to be at the end of the first game and give people the option of transferring or starting at that average level. This way, grinders who want to faceroll can, and people who want whatever minimal amount of challenge the game will have can get it, and everybody is happy.