Current Events > C/D: Force Awakens is a nostalgia pandering mess

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dark Forces TBQH

Solid argument

Absolutely awful movie, same with The Rise of Skywalker.

TLJ only and Rogue One are the only half decent Disney SW films

Yeah, I hate how they went back to rebel vs powerful evil empire essentially. At least let the New Republic be a thing beyond being blown up.

Its arguably more of a remake than a sequel. As a stand alone movie its fine but as an entry in the series it smashed every single arc and progress made in OT. Terrible movie.

It's the best Star Wars movie.

Unfortunately the other two sequels didn't attempt to have a cohesive story.

C.

Many of the classic characters being shooed aside is one of the reasons the sequel trilogy left me disappointed and even then, many of the new characters felt too one-dimensional without giving them enough reasons as to why I should even care about them; the only new character I liked was BB-8, but that's pretty much it.

Of course, that's only the appetizer to the sequel trilogy's problems...

A lonely kid on a desert planet comes across a droid with key information vital to the survival of a rag-tag group of freedom fighters. The male heroes launch a daring rescue of the female hero, who was captured by the villain. The final battle is a small squadron of fighters trying to destroy a planet-destroying superweaon.

Am I describing A New Hope, or The Force Awakens?

Basically if Harrison Ford is playing Han Solo then it's a good SW movie in my book.

008Zulu posted...

A lonely kid on a desert planet comes across a droid with key information vital to the survival of a rag-tag group of freedom fighters. The male heroes launch a daring rescue of the female hero, who was captured by the villain. The final battle is a small squadron of fighters trying to destroy a planet-destroying superweaon.

Am I describing A New Hope, or The Force Awakens?

Yes.

this scene never made sense did it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70aWl_5Zc04

At least it tried

the other two movies didn't even bother

HylianFox posted...

At least it tried

the other two movies didn't even bother

I guess that is what Disney learned. Star Wars fans will cough up money no matter what.

I don't think it is a mess. It's... uninspired? It's fine.

Disney needs to make a 2 hour movie on how Maz got Anakin's lightsaber.

First and last time I watched it I left disappointed. I knew franchises were getting normified but to kill Star wars like that? And then the sequels were somehow even worse, after EP 8 I was begging for the franchise to be put away.

Not as much as Rogue One. That's just fanservice the film.

RISEofCHRISTIAN posted...

Disney needs to make a 2 hour movie on how Maz got Anakin's lightsaber.

A good question for another time.

i.e. The lost screenwriters way of admitting they dont know either, but by winking at us and themselves its all okay.

I can't wait until people feel this way about top gun maverick

It was okay, then it was followed up by a bad sequel that then got followed up by the absolute worst film in the franchise.

Nah. Literally the prequels do just as much nostalgia pandering.

Its far from wholly original but its a good movie.

It's enjoyable but yeah, not really fond of where they took the story. TLJ is horrible all around. And RoS is only a little better.

TFA is the only good movie of the sequels. I saw it 4 or 5 times in theaters.

I've seen TLJ twice and ROS once.

Dark_Arbron posted...

A good question for another time.

i.e. The lost screenwriters way of admitting they dont know either, but by winking at us and themselves its all okay.

They were probably going to cover that in one of the sequels, then Rian Johnson threw a wrench into everything.

Force Awakens did a lot of set up that was burned to the ground in Last Jedi. If Rian Johnson had decided to not "subvert expectations" and actually use what was left for him to build up the trilogy then Force Awakens might have been great in the grand scheme of things. Instead all the set up in the movie was ruined and all that was left was a mostly meh movie that pathetically enough still managed to be the best movie in the trilogy.

Scintillant posted...

I can't wait until people feel this way about top gun maverick

Not likely.

HylianFox posted...

At least it tried

the other two movies didn't even bother

It didn't try shit, ot copied and pasted A New Hope, but with power creep.

The other 2 tried, and failed hard, but they actually tried. TFA was a lazy, by the number Cash grab.

Enclave posted...

Force Awakens did a lot of set up that was burned to the ground in Last Jedi. If Rian Johnson had decided to not "subvert expectations" and actually use what was left for him to build up the trilogy then Force Awakens might have been great in the grand scheme of things. Instead all the set up in the movie was ruined and all that was left was a mostly meh movie that pathetically enough still managed to be the best movie in the trilogy.

Would have been nice if before producing the first one they had a single director locked in to do all three. Then it might not have become a train wreck.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Would have been nice if before producing the first one they had a single director locked in to do all three. Then it might not have become a train wreck.

Obviously, but that's not the world we live in.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

It didn't try shit, ot copied and pasted A New Hope, but with power creep.

The other 2 tried, and failed hard, but they actually tried. TFA was a lazy, by the number Cash grab.

RoS deserves more sympathy in that regard. It had to try and pick up the pieces, whereas what TLJ tried was a terrible idea to begin with.

Its comfortably the best of the new trilogy. Shame the two that came after were such a mess

Dark_Arbron posted...

RoS deserves more sympathy in that regard. It had to try and pick up the pieces, whereas what TLJ tried was a terrible idea to begin with.

There's a lot of truth to this. RoS was bad but it didn't have anything to work with, TLJ made sure of that. It basically was doomed to be garbage.

Super_Slash posted...

They were probably going to cover that in one of the sequels, then Rian Johnson threw a wrench into everything.

The trilogy had no plan. It's surprising JJ even did a second one. And he still didn't address it. Just left it out there for fans or other media to fill in.

I don't know if I'd call it a mess, it seems coherent enough, the real problem is the extent to which it copied the original trilogy. Force-sensitive orphan on a desert planet, finds a droid with important information for the rebellion against the evil space Nazis, who plan to use their giant laser weapon to destroy some planets, led by a black-clad, helmeted enforcer armed with a red lightsaber and an identity-related twist who kills the grizzled old mentor, etc, etc.

Theres a lot more to it than just nOsTaLgiA pAnDeRiNg but if all you want to see is the negative aspect of it, of course thats all youre gonna see.

Enclave posted...

Force Awakens did a lot of set up that was burned to the ground in Last Jedi. If Rian Johnson had decided to not "subvert expectations" and actually use what was left for him to build up the trilogy then Force Awakens might have been great in the grand scheme of things. Instead all the set up in the movie was ruined and all that was left was a mostly meh movie that pathetically enough still managed to be the best movie in the trilogy.

Sadly this. A safe, predictable outcome wouldve been better at the end than what we got.

Kradek posted...

Not likely.

the visuals/action are fantastic but the entire plot is "remember what happened in the first movie guys????"

Enclave posted...

There's a lot of truth to this. RoS was bad but it didn't have anything to work with, TLJ made sure of that. It basically was doomed to be garbage.

Lmao no.

Theres two entire scripts for TROS. TLJ left the next guy with the bad guys and the good guys unified and clesrly defined.

To say there's nothing to work with just means you aren't capable of writing a story. It had everything to work with and thats why there's too scripts.

They just got a lesser director than RJ to do it.

TLJ is the best of the sequels easily.

CARRRNE_ASADA posted...

Sadly this. A safe, predictable outcome wouldve been better at the end than what we got.

And this is why thankfully star wars fans generally don't get to write star wars. Because we'd only ever get safe and predictable. TLJ will age very well because it wasn't, just like ESB did.

And getting there required negating much of the good outcomes from the OT as well as assassinating Luke's character and... I want to say Han's but where he ended up kinda is in character, just not the character development we hoped for him.

Toonstrack posted...

TLJ will age very well because it wasn't,

I was on the defense force for it when the new trilogy was current, but... Nah, it hasn't aged well.

Pandering, true. Mess? Deny.
Whether it's good or not is pretty subjective. I think it was a good stepping stone. Definitely has issues, but fine on its own.

Toonstrack posted...

TLJ will age very well

Nope.

Guide posted...

I was on the defense force for it when the new trilogy was current, but... Nah, it hasn't aged well.

Defense force?

So you mean you just changed your opinions to match the collective?

I haven't.

And yes, its going to age well. Process has already started. People are even turning against the safe stat wars that super fans like films deliver. Even filoni who is a George Lucas simp cannot please fans anymore. People are gonna look to content that does something fresh and new with the brand and elevate that, that's always the cycle they go through.

Sir_Will posted...

Nope.

The kids who watched tlj will grow up being apologists just like you guys are for the prequels(which are much worse movies i might add).

The people who understand storytelling snd already liked it for the most part will grow in their appreciation for it. Its already happening.

Well, you could look at it that way, but honestly it was the right call.

People were on the prequel hate train almost as hard as they're currently on the sequel hate train now, until the younger millennials and zoomers who watched them as kids grew up and started contributing to the Internet in a meaningful way.

Playing it safe was DEFINITELY the right call. Besides, it's not like it brought nothing new to the table. I was actually QUITE fond of how they deconstructed some of the ideas of the originals and presented the rather topical generational struggle in the context of a borderline remake that left on a radically different trajectory than the original.

It's a shame about 8 and 9 though. I thought 8 at least had a few interesting ideas in it, but 9 was just bad.

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

Well, you could look at it that way, but honestly it was the right call.

People were on the prequel hate train almost as hard as they're currently on the sequel hate train now, until the younger millennials and zoomers who watched them as kids grew up and started contributing to the Internet in a meaningful way.

Playing it safe was DEFINITELY the right call.

Yep. And that's why it was such a massive success. "Fans " deride them for doing what they would've wanted them to do when it actually came out. I.e. dsmned if they do damned if they don't.

The reality is people wanted a reset. But thankfully they weren't content to just make the entire trilogy a safe reset, they decided to introduce new ideas and new storytelling devices that the star wars franchise sorely needed with TLJ, one of the best SW films of the saga. It's ambitious, well made and controversial in all the right ways. Its a challenge of a film and was designed to be. Star wars needed a challenging film.

Toonstrack posted...

So you mean you just changed your opinions to match the collective?

What? No. Who even does that? How do you come to this conclusion?

Toonstrack posted...

Yep. And that's why it was such a massive success. "Fans " deride them for doing what they would've wanted them to do when it actually came out. I.e. dsmned if they do damned if they don't.

The reality is people wanted a reset. But thankfully they weren't content to just make the entire trilogy a safe reset, they decided to introduce new ideas and new storytelling devices that the star wars franchise sorely needed with TLJ, one of the best SW films of the saga. It's ambitious, well made and controversial in all the right ways. Its a challenge of a film and was designed to be. Star wars needed a challenging film.

Like I mentioned, it did have some interesting ideas. It was dying for some kind of structure, though, and they honestly should have just left out a number of subplots entirely. If I had to guess, the cutting room floor was positively littered with scenes that would have explained/fixed everything.