Board 8 > Realistically, what characters are not making it back in the next Smash Bros.?

(+) Yeah! (+)

There's no way they're gonna pull a "EVERYONE IS HERE" again, so who's going to be on the chopping block in the next installment?

I wanna say Sora's gone; Disney isn't always easy to deal with, might not be able to get him in again, or worth whatever hassle might come up. Banjo and Kazooie don't seem to be solid. I'm sure Microsoft would be fine with it, but that character didn't really seem to have a solid following after the hype they had before they made it in.

Like, license rights might play a big part in some of the cuts, but I feel like if the character isn't played that much they're not going to be considered that high in demand by the developers. Like, Pichu probably got its one extra chance to shine and that's it...

It's just going to be Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe on the Switch 2 anyway

Realistically, I'm not even all that sure they'll ever make another Smash Bros from the ground up again. What do you even do with it?

Reboot the series

Port Smash Ultimate with zero changes. Except:

Fix the online to not be awful.

I would pay full price.

I would buy a port of Smash Ultimate that's just like, all the DLC is collected into one package and we added a few things

I hope the rights they got to the characters are robust enough that they can make ports of the game

Smash cannot top Smash Ultimate unless you just take Ultimate and build on top of it.

Have a more contained cast with only a select few guest characters and fix characters like Samus and Kirby to better represent their home games?

Whats wrong with Kirby? His moveset is full of stuff from his games

Shot themselves in the foot going all in with Ultimate. They did the same thing adding so much stuff to MK8 but Mario Kart can get away with going back to 16 new 16 retro tracks. Smash downgrading from Ultimate is gonna suck no matter how you look at it.

We'll definitely start seeing some cuts that feel like they should be locks if they don't port. And/or a reduced amount of newcomers.

Also they didn't shoot themselves in the foot by making the best game possible, in particular if that actually was Sakurai's last dance.

Gonna sacrifice all the third parties for Geno and Sidon

Yeah if the series continues I think it will either be an enhanced port of Ultimate (not sure if there'd be any rights issues there), or something very different from what the franchise has been so far. Otherwise the comparisons probably wouldn't favour the new game.

shane15 posted...

Shot themselves in the foot going all in with Ultimate. They did the same thing adding so much stuff to MK8 but Mario Kart can get away with going back to 16 new 16 retro tracks. Smash downgrading from Ultimate is gonna suck no matter how you look at it.

I'd say it's the other way around. There are plenty of potential gameplay changes to justify a new Smash, but what could they do to Mario Kart that would make up for losing so much content?

To me Smash has been pretty much the same game since Melee when they added that extra special move. The thing that makes it better is the roster getting bigger and better each game. If they gut the roster it's gonna feel like a massive step backwards.

I agree i'm not really sure what they can add to Mario Kart going forward but at the end of the day the online in Mario Kart is always a blast and makes up for a lack of characters or tracks. Although i've always thought Mario Kart was the better series so that's the angle i'm coming from.

I mean, Switch 2 should be backwards compatible really, but also Smash Ultimate was the 19th best selling game of all time and second best on Switch, so I could see them going the enhanced port route just to sell it again.

Pichu

People don't truky care if not all characters or tracks are in Mario Kart. It's easier with that.

Is both Mario Kart and Animal Crossing not ahead of Smash?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Is both Mario Kart and Animal Crossing not ahead of Smash?

Oh, you're right, third best. It's listed as Wii U first, so I ignored it, but only 8.4 million of its 65.4 million sold are on Wii U.

I don't think they can cut back the roster unless they it's temporary. Do a live service thing and start with a base 20 and then release one every two weeks

Preferably just port over Smash Ultimate + DLC to the new console and call it a day. Don't add any new fighters/stages to the base game. If they can, just introduce new fighters through fighter passes for a few years and that's that.

Alternatively, simply just don't have a new Smash game on the next console and give the series a rest for about a decade. You could do some other crossover genre instead (just don't market it as a Smash Bros game). You then bring back the series with a heavily reduced roster of 40 something and a few different features on the console after and use season passes to add in further content over the course of the console's lifespan.

It's called Smash Ultimate not Smash Penultimate

There's really no reason to do another new one for some time. I'd prefer Melee HD.

praying if they do it they at least get their priorities straight and at least drop ones like jigglypuff finally

but they won't

betting on ones like rob, duck hunt, maybe min min*, all konami + snk reps, and... oh yeah piranha plant and the koopalings. those guys getting the boot. i'd say pretty high odds on mr game and watch leaving too

*(i half expect them to still have an arms rep but probably change it)

ctesjbuvf posted...

People don't truky care if not all characters or tracks are in Mario Kart. It's easier with that.

Yeah pretty much this

ctesjbuvf posted...

People don't truky care if not all characters or tracks are in Mario Kart. It's easier with that.

Fair. The thing that trips me up is the comparison to the DLC. If they can profitably charge $20 for 48 new tracks and some new characters, why should I pay $60/70 for (probably) 32 new tracks and fewer characters with no major changes in the gameplay? But that's probably just a me thing.

If they do a Smash Ultimate Complete or whatever, they might have to keep some of the DLC characters as DLC due to licensing arrangements. Probably not a big deal tho.

I think the only way you really successfully cut down on the roster (outside of third-party characters) and have it justified within the Nintendo fanbase is if you revamp all of the Nintendo characters you include. Not just remaking them for a new system with new animations, but more of a per-character overhaul of how they work.

Mario - toss FLUDD for Cappy, let go of the cape, only fireball he keeps is his final smash, etc.

Link - Tears of the Kingdom-treatment, see what Ultrahand allows, let Up-B also have Ascend, etc.

You see where I'm going with this. Reinvent everyone you can and start the game with those reinvented characters. Some characters are harder to reinvent than others to be fair -- they can be unlockables or DLC, or maybe try something new anyway and then just change it back in the next SSB-game if it doesn't work well after some patches. Ridley ain't that small. Sheik didn't always have grenades. Take new chances like that with everyone you include, and then keep what works in future games if you want.

If you keep characters mostly the same, the fanbase won't understand why you're not including them. Some will still be mad their characters are different now, but it's probably the way to how you keep a cast reduction feeling fresh.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

Whats wrong with Kirby? His moveset is full of stuff from his games

His standard attacks I don't think are, but I've only experienced Kirby games through Let's Plays (might even just be the one TRG collab even). Also Kirby being like garbage tier in most Smash games.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

His standard attacks I don't think are, but I've only experienced Kirby games through Let's Plays

lol

Just do what SF3 did and get rid of everyone except the main two, Mario and Kirby

Kirby arguably plays the most like his own games, not counting the spinoffs

actual answer if they made a new game intentionally with a drastically smaller cast of say, 40 they KEEP the following (and move some of the echoish fighters like dr. mario, daisy, lucina into costumes)

Mario
DK
Link
Samus
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Pikachu
Luigi
Ness
Falcon
Jigglypuff (or cut Ness and Puff if they don't care about keeping the original 12)
Peach
Bowser
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Marth
Mewtwo
Mr. Game and Watch
Meta Knight
Pit
Wario
Ike
Pokemon Trainer / Greninja (if they'd rather have old pokemon or new pokemon representation)
Diddy Kong
Sonic
King Dedede
Olimar
ROB
Villager
Mega Man
Pac-Man
Shulk
Cloud
Inkling
Byleth
Steve
(+2 to 4 new fighters, pending cuts to jiggly and ness. at least one of the new fighters is a new pokemon)

Sora (if they can get the rights, might have to be DLC)

Mii Fighters

That selection looks somewhat plausible in such a case, ROB stands out the most to me and I think you could make cases for a handful of others above some of these.

ROB is a super strange case because he's so important to Nintendo's history even though he isn't that important to fans. I left him in because he feels like the kind of character that the devs or leadership might really push to keep in. Plus he's kind of unique and fun

Almost definitely remasters/upgrades of the current game, systems, and characters. They may well start numbering them like Mario Kart. The menus could change here and there. Whatever works to sell the next copy. But there is basically no reason to make a new one anymore.

Perhaps, would he be more so than Duck Hunt though, or even Ice Climbers? Little Mac? Then Snake and Ryu also seem remarkable to not have.

Also they would probably stick with Lucario before Mewtwo.

foolm0r0n posted...

But there is basically no reason to make a new one anymore.

Better graphics?

MacArrowny posted...

Better graphics?

That's what remasters are for

Actually maybe make a Remaster with every Smash game in it

ctesjbuvf posted...

Perhaps, would he be more so than Duck Hunt though, or even Ice Climbers? Little Mac? Then Snake and Ryu also seem remarkable to not have.

Also they would probably stick with Lucario before Mewtwo.

40 might be too deep a cut, maybe 45 is more realistic. After all, I did cut all Metroid reps except the OG Samus.

throw back in Little Mac, ZSS or Ridley, Snake, and perhaps Ryu.

the thing that's weird about Ryu is that from a gaming history perspective he deserves to be there but from a "fans actually want to play the character in smash" i think he's very very low.

Yeah modern game engines can scale from 480p up to 4k without even having to reload the game. They just need to add higher quality assets.

The gameplay differences is the only tricky part. But the only reason they updated the gameplay before is because they had to keep remaking games for new platforms. Now they don't need to do that.

I could see them adding alternate physics/movesets for the old games. Could even have like Fox Melee and Fox 64 as separate characters that you can mix and match in a single battle. That would be ridiculously niche for neckbeards only though, which they historically do not cater to.

UF8 posted...

praying if they do it they at least get their priorities straight and at least drop ones like jigglypuff finally

If we do get a brand new Smash game, I wouldn't entirely mind if they did a hard reboot and just cut all of the garbage. I feel that would be more palpable than "let's cut Sora and Mewtwo and Lucas, but keep Chrom and Piranha Plant" as an example.

Though just iterating and re-releasing Ultimate forever would be the ideal route. Even if it's boring, that's the most practical future for the series.

changmas posted...

Pokemon Trainer / Greninja (if they'd rather have old pokemon or new pokemon representation)

Both of these are old Pokmon representation by now lol

Johnbobb posted...

Kirby arguably plays the most like his own games, not counting the spinoffs

I see where you're going here, but I'm pretty sure Kirby does not fight in his games primarily by kicking. At least with someone like Mario it kind of makes sense since he did fight that way in one game, but still.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

I see where you're going here, but I'm pretty sure Kirby does not fight in his games primarily by kicking. At least with someone like Mario it kind of makes sense since he did fight that way in one game, but still.

well he fights primarily by sucking dudes up, but thats fully covered by one move

also he does have a slide kick move that predates Smash Bros, so its not totally weird. And obviously the Fighter power contributes a bit, though thats more punch-heavy.

He does with the Fighter ability. Clearly you did not watch enough Let's Plays of Kirby games.

Worth noting SSB hasn't done a remaster for the series yet. They could have done one instead of jumping from 4 to Ultimate like Mario Kart 8 did, but they didn't -- they made a brand new game four years later with SSB4 getting DLC along the way. They could remaster this next generation, sure...just don't know yet.

Ultimate came out December 2018 and Nintendo released brand new Smash-games every ~4-6 years since Melee to Brawl...so we'll probably have an answer on if it's a remaster or not soon after the next Nintendo system's announced.

I wouldn't be surprised if they 'abandoned' Smash Bros for a while and made a new mascot fighter series with different mechanics. Maybe go 3D with something like Power Stone or Dissidia, or something closer to a 'traditional' fighter but still simplified like Battle for the Grid or SF6's Modern input controls.

It's funny you suggest that. With how the last Marvel VS Capcom game went and how Smash already has several of Capcom's biggest characters and stages, it would be cool to see this pursued more and make Smash VS Capcom. Might not work what with Resident Evil and such, but Capcom might not want to risk losing a license with Marvel/Disney again either. That would stir a lot of fighter excitement too for Capcom, especially post-SF6 where they're already riding high. Super-unlikely though.

Alternatively, hey...Pokkn Tournament might get a new day to shine.

KamikazePotato posted...

Port Smash Ultimate with zero changes. Except:

Fix the online to not be awful.

I would pay full price.

I'll take 3 copies