Current Events > GOP rep: Palestinian babies aren't innocent

(+) Yeah! (+)

bfslick50 posted...

Support for Ukraine.

Unfortunately, a lot of online leftists do not want us to support Ukraine.

Humble_Novice posted...

And they'll be fully regretting it once Trump takes over office and destroys democracy forever.

And you guys don't regret for not trying to win the votes, right?

Ricemills posted...

And you guys don't regret for not trying to win the votes, right?

Oh, the Democrats are already trying their best, but some people will vehemently refuse to listen to reason no matter what.

Humble_Novice posted...

Oh, the Democrats are already trying their best, but some people will vehemently refuse to listen to reason no matter what.

Yeah sure, their best at disappointing people who wanted the genocide to stop.
Who am i kidding? You're actively supported Israel in that war topic. Even making multipke topics about how protests for Palestinian are bad.

Ricemills posted...

And you guys don't regret for not trying to win the votes, right?

Why bother if a man says he wants to reap vengence across the USA doesn't make you want to vote than what good i me trying to convince you?

You keep screaming lesser evil is still evil. Yeah so? One of theses is going to win, better it be the one that won't see my friends imprissoned for being undesirables.

- 63% of Democrats believe Israel has gone too far in this war.
- Just 46% of Democrats approve of the way Biden is handling the conflict.
- Disapproval among non-white Dems is 60%, and among Dems under the age of 45 it's 70% (!).

Now I think it's probably a bad idea to ignore such large amounts of your voter base, but I'm sure some of you would rather pretend that all of these people are Trumpers, nazis, commies, accelerationists, Putin plants, etc.

Poll source, published yesterday:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1

havean776 posted...

Why bother if a man says he wants to reap vengence across the USA doesn't make you want to vote than what good i me trying to convince you?

You keep screaming lesser evil is still evil. Yeah so? One of theses is going to win, better it be the one that won't see my friends imprissoned for being undesirables.

You know what's the ideal situation?
Stopping the slaughter in Palestine and winning the votes back so Biden can win.
The ball is in his hands, let's see how will he play it out.

Ricemills posted...

You know what's the ideal situation?
Stopping the slaughter in Palestine and winning the votes back so Biden can win.
The ball is in his hands, let's see how will he play it out.

What's the real soloution however? You are making perfect the enemy of good. A classic Right wing tactic is to try to convince people to not vote as less votes help the Repubs.
And your angry its not working here. Too many people have seen through the bullshit.

havean776 posted...

What's the real soloution however? You are making perfect the enemy of good. A classic Right wing tactic is to try to convince people to not vote as less votes help the Repubs.
And your angry its not working here. Too many people have seen through the bullshit.

So stopping the war or at least making a real effort is not a solution?
I guess Biden calling himself as a Zionist twice and keeping the money flowing for the genocide is what you want.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


What?

Ricemills posted...

So stopping the war or at least making a real effort is not a solution?

Wait thats it! We just need to stop at war!

My God the solution was there all a long! And so easy!

Everyone just stop the war!

Incredible goalpost shift

havean776 posted...

Wait thats it! We just need to stop at war!

My God the solution was there all a long! And so easy!

Everyone just stop the war!

damn why didn't anyone think of that before

Biden is not just a passive onlooker to the war, he's actively ennabling one side of it, in ways that even Democrats in Congress have called out:
https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-press-blinken-arms-sales-190934028.html

A bicameral coalition of nearly 20 Democrats urged the State Department on Monday to provide information on the Biden administrations decisions to sell arms to Israel amid its ongoing war with Hamas without explicit congressional approval.
The letter, led by Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.), increases pressure on the Biden White House from Democrats concerned with the U.S. role in the Gaza conflict, which has raged since Hamass attack in early October.
The Biden administration has bypassed congressional notification on Israel arms sales twice, raising concerns among the lawmakers.
The members of Congress shared the worlds horror over the violence of Hamas militants but are also deeply disturbed over Israels indiscriminate bombing of Palestinians in Gaza, the letter says.
It is essential for Congress to be able to conduct oversight of these arms transfers and determine whether they are consistent with humanitarian principles and U.S. law, and whether they advance or harm U.S. national security, the letter reads.
It is highly unusual for the president to bypass congressional oversight through an emergency declaration, it continues. In fact, since the [Arms Export Control Act] was passed into law, an emergency declaration authority has only been used 18 times in nearly 50 years.
The lawmakers drew attention to the mass civilian casualties in the conflict, and the use of U.S. munitions in strikes that killed civilians. More than 25,000 Palestinians have been killed in the conflict, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.
We are also troubled by the decision to provide equipment for 155mm shells, which over 30 U.S.-based civil society organizations warned poses a grave risk to civilians and are inherently indiscriminate when used in densely populated areas like Gaza, the letter reads.

Sure, vote for him, whatever, but don't lie about what his administration can and cannot do.

Ricemills posted...

I guess you guys did excuse every Biden's wrong as long Trump is more wrong.

This is the beating heart of why this stance is putrid garbage for dumb people.

Not one person I know has excused Biden's blind support for Israel, they just acknowledge that he's better for domestic rights for everyone that isn't a white straight male landowner

I don't know why the "lesser of two evils" thing is such a difficult concept to grasp.

"oh but you could vote third party"

The third party that famously hasn't pulled or won more than 5% of the vote in uhhh 20 years? Ish?

Intro2Logic posted...

Sure, vote for him,

You got it!

And that is why we need a real crowdfunded grassrot 3rd party that actually got a chance to make a difference.

Foppe posted...

And that is why we need a real crowdfunded grassrot 3rd party that actually got a chance to make a difference.

Okay. When that is a conceivable option, I'm all over it.

Until then, I'm going to acknowledge the reality that American politics in its current state is a lesser of two evil system.

B-but Biden's not literally perfect wah wah wah

Everyone's lives are going to get much worse under a Trump dictatorship, even outside America

Accelerationists want to drag everyone down when they're free to jump off a cliff themselves

Cemith posted...

Not one person I know has excused Biden's blind support for Israel, they just acknowledge that he's better for domestic rights for everyone that isn't a white straight male landowner

That is, by definition, excusing it. You're conflating "not one person I know has excused Biden's blind support for Israel" with "not one person I know says Biden's blind support for Israel is a good thing."

We're on CE to have conversations. There are more interesting conversations to be had than the yes/no binary of "will you vote for Joe Biden in November?"

Cemith posted...

"oh but you could vote third party"

The third party that famously hasn't pulled or won more than 5% of the vote in uhhh 20 years? Ish?

Because so many people refuse to consider them. Like, you do realise literally nothing besides the very kind of two-party propaganda people like you are pushing, actually prevents a third party win, right? They're not going to go "oh, this third party candidate won the popular vote and EC, but nevermind, Trump wins instead because Biden didn't win and Trump is the other major party candidate".

Rexdragon125 posted...

B-but Biden's not literally perfect wah wah wah

Everyone's lives are going to get much worse under a Trump dictatorship, even outside America

Accelerationists want to drag everyone down when they're free to jump off a cliff themselves

It's even worse when certain portions of the left want this to happen. While I don't blame them for giving up on a system that's inherently flawed, I have yet to see anything resembling a plan from them.

So I got modded for saying the guy who said this is a "insert bad words here"?! Wow!

Ricemills posted...

Yeah sure, their best at disappointing people who wanted the genocide to stop.
Who am i kidding? You're actively supported Israel in that war topic. Even making multipke topics about how protests for Palestinian are bad.

I dont know how to tell you this other than to just say it.

The Palestinians in Gaza were screwed the second their leadership decided to launch their Al Aqsa Flood. And that wasnt going to change regardless of who was in the Oval Office. Hamas knew what it was doing, and it knew what the response was going to be from the corrupt Israeli government.

No US President was going to have the strength to stand in the way of that, not without boots on the ground.

lderivedx posted...

That is, by definition, excusing it. You're conflating "not one person I know has excused Biden's blind support for Israel" with "not one person I know says Biden's blind support for Israel is a good thing."

Because it's so very on its face a bad thing. I didn't think I needed to point this out. But, again, Trump will do the same thing, but the lives of anyone in the LGBT community will be worse. I will vote for Biden every time over Trump because there's genocide either way, it's just do I want one there -and- here or just there?

If you want to help Palestinians, great, all for it. But pretending that abstaining your vote for Biden, which does help Trump's chances (because remember, Trump's cultists can and will vote for him no matter what) in service of rejecting his foreign policy is meaningless virtue signalling and will change nothing. Only thing it changes is that LGBT are now more widely crucified under an aspiring authoritarian. I am voting against Trump, not for Biden.

Trumble posted...

Because so many people refuse to consider them. Like, you do realise literally nothing besides the very kind of two-party propaganda people like you are pushing, actually prevents a third party win, right? They're not going to go "oh, this third party candidate won the popular vote and EC, but nevermind, Trump wins instead because Biden didn't win and Trump is the other major party candidate".

Okay? Again, this is all pointless posturing. When they receive traction, I'll vote for them instead. But right now we're all up against cultists so I'll take guaranteed option, thanks.

Foppe posted...

And that is why we need a real crowdfunded grassrot 3rd party that actually got a chance to make a difference.

A 3rd party making a difference would be splitting the vote so there's only a plurality in the electoral college meaning the House gets to pick the election exactly like what happened in 1824.

Whatever you need to tell yourselves to justify knowingly voting for a genocide enabler.

Trumble posted...

Whatever you need to tell yourselves to justify knowingly voting for a genocide enabler.

You mean trump?

ooger posted...

You mean trump?

I mean both Trump and Biden.

Any time these discussions of the election come up, there should be little disclaimers of which state a person lives in, to see if their vote is worth caring about. I'm in DC, so feel free to ignore anything I say about how I'll vote.

Intro2Logic posted...

Any time these discussions of the election come up, there should be little disclaimers of which state a person lives in, to see if their vote is worth caring about.

Are you sure you're not a republican? That's definitely what a republican would say.

Trumble posted...

I mean both Trump and Biden.

Genocide happens either way, chief. The only difference is I'm not psyched about it happening to LGBT people as well.

Cemith posted...

I will vote for Biden every time over Trump because there's genocide either way

Again, this is definitionally excusing Biden's actions. It doesn't matter if you think genocide is bad; you're willing to accept and overlook it. That's wrong.

lderivedx posted...

Again, this is definitionally excusing Biden's actions. It doesn't matter if you think genocide is bad; you're willing to accept and overlook it. That's wrong.

Pushing Biden to be better while ultimately voting for what will bring about the most good is the right thing to do.

Morality is not a check box but a sliding scale. Things would be worse under Trump. Not fighting that is wrong.

lderivedx posted...

Again, this is definitionally excusing Biden's actions. It doesn't matter if you think genocide is bad; you're willing to accept and overlook it. That's wrong.

Genocide of LGBT people is also wrong, but I can actually prevent that.

What would be accepting and overlooking genocide is by helping vote in the authoritarian who's entire party is currently predicated on removing the rights of people that aren't straight white males.

I don't know how else to explain to you the difference.

Unless you mean to suggest by voting for Trump you're preventing genocides?

lderivedx posted...

Again, this is definitionally excusing Biden's actions. It doesn't matter if you think genocide is bad; you're willing to accept and overlook it. That's wrong.

Trump wins and the genocide of Palestinians doesn't stop either. So your solution to a foreign genocide America won't stop is to allow America to commit a genocide of its own at home? Who does that help?

Trumble posted...

Because so many people refuse to consider them. Like, you do realise literally nothing besides the very kind of two-party propaganda people like you are pushing, actually prevents a third party win, right? They're not going to go "oh, this third party candidate won the popular vote and EC, but nevermind, Trump wins instead because Biden didn't win and Trump is the other major party candidate".

That's great. But I'm not putting the fate of the country and millions of lives on the hope that the majority of voters in America this year will reject the two-party system and unify around a third-party candidate that doesn't yet exist. That's like hoping that we'll achieve world peace and the end of poverty through believing in each other and the power of charity.

hockeybabe89 posted...

That's great. But I'm not putting the fate of the country and millions of lives on the hope that the majority of voters in America this year will reject the two-party system and unify around a third-party candidate that doesn't yet exist. That's like hoping that we'll achieve world peace and the end of poverty through believing in each other and the power of charity.

If your conscience will allow you to vote for someone who is actively enabling genocide and will continue to do so, then that's on you.

You aren't forced to vote for either of them. It's entirely on you if you choose to do so anyway.

bfslick50 posted...

Pushing Biden to be better while ultimately voting for what will bring about the most good is the right thing to do.

You've got no leverage to "push" Biden to be better, at least via voting, unless you're willing to withhold your vote.

As for the other two or three of you: saying "we should vote for genocide because voting for 'genocide + 1' would be worse" is not morally virtuous nor sophisticated. It's child-like.

bfslick50 posted...

A 3rd party making a difference would be splitting the vote so there's only a plurality in the electoral college meaning the House gets to pick the election exactly like what happened in 1824.

And that ends up being extremely unbalanced due to being 1 vote per state. California, 1 vote. Wyoming, 1 vote.

Trumble posted...

Because so many people refuse to consider them. Like, you do realise literally nothing besides the very kind of two-party propaganda people like you are pushing, actually prevents a third party win, right? They're not going to go "oh, this third party candidate won the popular vote and EC, but nevermind, Trump wins instead because Biden didn't win and Trump is the other major party candidate".

For any given individual, voting 3rd party makes it less likely they get a result they want. While sure, if enough people voted for a 3rd party things could chance, you have a massive range between where it just makes things worse. We do not have any way to cast conditional votes, and so rational voters will not vote for a 3rd party candidate.

Additionally, there's an expectation that if a majority of a party's voters would prefer some Candidate C, then that candidate could have ran for that nomination instead of running as an independent or 3rd party candidate.

In order to make 3rd party candidates more viable, you need to change the voting system so that the voters feel like it is a reasonable option.

Ricemills posted...

And you can't seem to comprehend that a vote for lesser evil is still a vote for evil.

If I must choose between getting socked in the jaw and getting my head chopped off, I'm not supportive of violence because I chose the punch instead of having "principles and leaving my fate up to chance. I just live in reality and have a basic sense of survival and damage mitigation.

Ricemills wants Trump to win

lderivedx posted...

You've got no leverage to "push" Biden to be better, at least via voting, unless you're willing to withhold your vote.

A like minded Congressman has a greater ability to push Biden than of Trump who has no problem letting the government itself shut down on a whim. Biden supported gay marriage before Obama and has lasted so long as a politician because hes willing to adapt if his base pushes him hard enough. As opposed to Trump who has a cult following and with supporters declaring hes always right. Biden as a president has been more liberal than he was as a Senator because hes willing to change. Reelect him and theres hope hell change but Trump is never going to be moved to help Palestinians. With Trump theres no hope.

lderivedx posted...

As for the other two or three of you: saying "we should vote for genocide because voting for 'genocide + 1' would be worse" is not morally virtuous nor sophisticated. It's child-like.

If my choice is genocide or the same genocide + another one, then the only option I can morally choose is the single genocide. If the first genocide happens regardless, then I am not responsible for it. However, if I fail to try to stop the 2nd one, then I am responsible if that one happens.