Current Events > Israel have killed 11,000 people in <40 days. Irish troubles deaths were 3532

(+) Yeah! (+)

in 29 years. In 29 years, a period of great violence and instability in occupied Northern Ireland, known as the troubles, cost 3532 lives. In less than 40 days Israel has killed nearly 3 times as many people. How many will they have killed in 29 years time?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/11/13/photos-more-death-and-destruction-in-gaza-as-israeli-attacks-continue

JacobyCrane posted...

How many will they have killed in 29 years time?

by the time israel goes "scorched earth"against hamas the death toll will be x100 or more on what hamas has killled.

there's(was?) around 600k people in Gaza, so there's your upper limit.

If you're going to compare incomparable things, next do Stalin's purges, the Great Leap Forward, or civilian deaths in WW2.

sfcalimari posted...

If you're going to compare incomparable things, next do Stalin's purges, the Great Leap Forward, or civilian deaths in WW2.

Why is this one incomparable?

sfcalimari posted...

If you're going to compare incomparable things, next do Stalin's purges, the Great Leap Forward, or civilian deaths in WW2.

No two events will ever produce an oranges to oranges comparison but find me a better comparison to what's happening in Gaza than the Imperialist and sectarian occupation of Northern Ireland by the British?

And while you're at it, ask yourself why you felt the need to dismiss Israel killing 11,000 people in less than 40 days.

It's one of the biggest mass murders this century, between this and what the Russians are doing in Ukraine? The US government completely supports one of them, and it's bipartisan. 100% of the GOP and a sizable majority of the Democrats support the mass murder of civilians in Gaza. It's truly disgusting.

US killed almost as many Iraqi civilians in that time period. Almost

JacobyCrane posted...

the Imperialist and sectarian occupation of Northern Ireland by the British?

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

Gee I wonder why.

its almost as if its a war or something

According to estimates, civilian death toll in Ukraine is around 8500-10k. Israel has mass murdered more civilians in just 40 days than the Russians have in nearly 2 years.

The situations are nearly identical, Israel has no legitimate claim to Palestinian territory any more than Russia has a legitimate claim to Ukrainian territory, and both are using an occupying military force to murder people.

At least the chuds are consistent in their support of mass murder by both sides, the truly confusing ones are the ones who support one, yet oppose the other?

JacobyCrane posted...

No two events will ever produce an oranges to oranges comparison but find me a better comparison to what's happening in Gaza than the Imperialist and sectarian occupation of Northern Ireland by the British?

And while you're at it, ask yourself why you felt the need to dismiss Israel killing 11,000 people in less than 40 days.

I have a comparison but most people won't like it. Let's just say it was a major incident 78-84 years ago.

The sheer brutality of this invasion cannot be overstated. Show this graph to anyone who wants to downplay the number of deaths as "war is war and casualties happen":

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8bb75f55.jpg

source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/gaza-rising-death-toll-civilians/?itid=mr_world_1

TheJustice posted...

I have a comparison but most people won't like it. Let's just say it was a major incident 78-84 years ago.

Plenty of people are on board with that comparison at this point; there aren't many that fit better.

Hornezz posted...

The sheer brutality of this invasion cannot be overstated. Show this graph to anyone who wants to downplay the number of deaths as "war is war and casualties happen":

Ukranians weren't hiding behind children though.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Ukranians weren't hiding behind children though.

A city was blown up because they said one guy might have been in that city. So that is what you mean by hidding behind children. Tell me even before this happened why was Shireen Abu Akleh killed ?

This place has been a warzone for like 2000 years.

Zwijn posted...

This place has been a warzone for like 2000 years.

This point gets overlooked too easily. Two sides that absolutely, unrepentantly hate each other. Raised from birth to hate each other. Generations and generations of hate. Every presidency has some nonsense "middle east peace plan." None of them go any meaningful distance.

The cold hard reality is the war in the middle east will end when one side kills the other.

The whole situation sucks for everyone but I haven't heard a viable, long term solution from either the left or right.

And in lieu of that, entire populations disappear. Sad.

It's easy when you don't count those people as human.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Ukranians weren't hiding behind children though.

The standard of evidence needed to explain the deaths of thousands of children can already not be high enough in the first place, but it's even higher for a regime that has a well documented history of using the human shield narrative to cover up their killings of civilians.

Hornezz posted...

The standard of evidence needed to explain the deaths of thousands of children can already not be high enough in the first place, but it's even higher for a regime that has a well documented history of using the human shield narrative to cover up their killings of civilians.

And Israel got a history of killing kids even without them being used as human shields.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/innocent-gone-israeli-strike-gaza-kills-four-children-n157301

Hornezz posted...

The standard of evidence needed to explain the deaths of thousands of children can already not be high enough in the first place, but it's even higher for a regime that has a well documented history of using the human shield narrative to cover up their killings of civilians.

"narrative" huh? Even though there are mountains of video evidence of them doing it.

But sure. I'm sure a literal terrorist organisation would never stoop that low, right?

Kimbos_Egg posted...

But sure. I'm sure a literal terrorist organisation would never stoop that low, right?

I didn't say never. But you'd have to willfully naive to accept this was the case for each of the 4000 children killed.

NightingaleMD posted...

This point gets overlooked too easily. Two sides that absolutely, unrepentantly hate each other. Raised from birth to hate each other. Generations and generations of hate. Every presidency has some nonsense "middle east peace plan." None of them go any meaningful distance.

The cold hard reality is the war in the middle east will end when one side kills the other.

The whole situation sucks for everyone but I haven't heard a viable, long term solution from either the left or right.

And in lieu of that, entire populations disappear. Sad.

Problem is that first world governments want you to feel bad only about Israel and guilt trip you for caring about palestinian civilians.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

its almost as if its a war or something

Except targeting civilians is a war crime.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

"narrative" huh? Even though there are mountains of video evidence of them doing it.

But sure. I'm sure a literal terrorist organisation would never stoop that low, right?

Who was using Shireen Abu Akleh as a shield ?

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Ukranians weren't hiding behind children though.

Netanyahu supported and funded Hamas, and one of his cabinet members called them an "asset" for de-legitimizing the Palestinian state and people.

It's not that Hamas is hiding behind children. Israel dropped it behind some children as an excuse to exterminate them.

Trumble posted...

Plenty of people are on board with that comparison at this point; there aren't many that fit better.

I'd still refrain from making it unless you want to get mass marked and then warned for it.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

"narrative" huh? Even though there are mountains of video evidence of them doing it.

But sure. I'm sure a literal terrorist organisation would never stoop that low, right?

Welp, better bomb hospitals full of children then. You've convinced me, all on board for the ethnic cleansing train. Choo choo!

Doe posted...

Netanyahu supported and funded Hamas, and one of his cabinet members called them an "asset" for de-legitimizing the Palestinian state and people.

It's not that Hamas is hiding behind children. Israel dropped it behind some children as an excuse to exterminate them.

I feel like this needs to be a sticky post. Required reading for all Israel shills.

That's a lovely indiscriminate genocide you've got going on there, Israel.

kingdrake2 posted...

by the time israel goes "scorched earth"against hamas the death toll will be x100 or more on what hamas has killled.

Israel tolls out far more death than Hamas has ever done. Hamas absolutely should not exist, But Palestine deserves far better than what Israel is giving them.

JacobyCrane posted...

In 29 years, a period of great violence and instability in occupied Northern Ireland, known as the troubles, cost 3532 lives.

This is honestly a piss poor comparison. The Troubles were mostly scattered terrorist actions. What Israel is doing is a military operation.

You want a comparison? The Germans killed over 40,000 civilians during The Blitz in a period lasting 8 months and 5 days.

ScazarMeltex posted...

I'd still refrain from making it unless you want to get mass marked and then warned for it.

Dont worry, they got overturned.

In war there is sadly always civilian casualties, it unavoidable in modern war even more so far (due to drone strikes and similar tools that are designed to take out a target without having boots on the ground there).

just hoping a ceasefire is called soon and this ends well, but Im feeling that is unlikely.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Except targeting civilians is a war crime.

And under Protocol I of the Geneva conventions, so is hiding your military power among civilians.

Let's stop pretending this war or any other war has a moral high ground. The overall point of war is you kill as many of the other side as possible until the other side either stops existing or surrenders. War only determines who is left. Not who was right.

Crazyman93 posted...

And under Protocol I of the Geneva conventions, so is hiding your military power among civilians.

Doe posted...

Netanyahu supported and funded Hamas, and one of his cabinet members called them an "asset" for de-legitimizing the Palestinian state and people.

It's not that Hamas is hiding behind children. Israel dropped it behind some children as an excuse to exterminate them.

Neither the IDF nor Hamas deserve sympathy. The problem is that people still think the IDF has done nothing wrong. Either in this conflict or the past 75 years of apartheid.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Neither the IDF nor Hamas deserve sympathy. The problem is that people still think the IDF has done nothing wrong. Either in this conflict or the past 75 years of apartheid.

Yeah, well, you only get charged with war crimes when you lose. Just ask Canada and Germany.

TetsuoS2 posted...

there's(was?) around 600k people in Gaza, so there's your upper limit.

There is no limit. Israel has annexed Syria's territory supported by Donald Trump. It's not just "Israel bombing Gaza." The conflict extends farther beyond Gaza.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/25/three-years-on-us-still-views-syrias-golan-as-israeli-territory
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-israel-golanheights-explainer/explainer-what-is-the-significance-of-the-golan-heights-idUSKCN1R22IR
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/27/syria-condemns-israel-plan-double-golan-heights-settlements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcxj5GbHN-0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfbiBC_8FPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsN4l10YDqU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmCiktkvMzw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfvCsH1mkU4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArFCYvx2tq4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APynjXZw8T0

Kimbos_Egg posted...

its almost as if its a war or something

Is it? Looks more like a one sided massacre to me.

Crazyman93 posted...

Let's stop pretending this war or any other war has a moral high ground. The overall point of war is you kill as many of the other side as possible until the other side either stops existing or surrenders. War only determines who is left. Not who was right.

Yeah, horse shit. Gaza is not just some belligerent neighboring state collectively yearning for the destruction of Israel. It is managed by Israel, and its management is like that of a prison. Israel's policies directly aid the radicalization pipeline by making people feel there is no other hope but to attack; even then, the majority of Gazans want peace.

You don't get to manufacture a 'war' and then shrug your shoulders and say everyone's to blame because that's how war works.

Doe posted...

even then, the majority of Gazans want peace.

assumption

Doe posted...

Gaza is not just some belligerent neighboring state collectively yearning for the destruction of Israel.

Israel is literally surrounded by nothing but belligerent neighboring states yearning for their destruction.

Crazy how antisemitism is just accepted again.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Ukranians weren't hiding behind children though.

Not just hiding. Apparently Hamas fighters wear civilian clothes in battle, which you can see in the videos that they recorded of themselves. Now theres no doubt that children have died and other civilians have died, but it does compromise the legitimacy of the total number of civilian deaths being claimed.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Israel is literally surrounded by nothing but belligerent neighboring states yearning for their destruction.

And Palestine literally neighboring a country that's actively destroying them

Kimbos_Egg posted...

assumption

No it is not, I cannot believe you have the gall to assume I do as little research as you do.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah

Polls Show Majority of Gazans Were Against Breaking Ceasefire; Hamas and Hezbollah Unpopular Among Key Arab Publics

(62%) supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel. Moreover, half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: Hamas should stop calling for Israels destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders. Moreover, across the region, Hamas has lost popularity over time among many Arab publics.

In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for Palestinian Authority administration and security officials over Hamasthe majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units, including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new viewthis proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014.

Israel is literally surrounded by nothing but belligerent neighboring states yearning for their destruction.

That is a lame deflection from the fact the city Israel is currently mass-bombing is one it manages, the terrorist group they claim to be targeting being one its prime Minister and cabinet supported for the sake of being able to take this action. A city that (as you so boldly refused to so much as Google about) desires peace.

ColonizedMind posted...

Crazy how antisemitism is just accepted again.

Israel have thrown around that word every time somebody doesnt agree with them so it has lost its meaning.

Hornezz posted...

The sheer brutality of this invasion cannot be overstated.

Have you ever seen a non-brutal genocide?