Board 8 > MCU General 15 - Loki S2, The Marvels, Echo

(+) Yeah! (+)

It just seems weird because they introduce the time slipping mechanic, which actually could be a fun way to explore Loki's history with current Loki's thought-processes and clarity, but they "fix" it in episode 1 and just decide to re-introduce it in episode 5. What was the point in fixing it in the first place?

Honestly the third episode was easily my favorite even if it didn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Season 1 was a nice escalation from episode to episode with some great introspection from Loki as it progresses. I hated how they rushed his initial development via watching a video and we should have had Loki go from villain to hero over six episodes, but it felt like things actually built. For whatever reason, season 2 is REALLY heavy on tell, don't show. Oh, a bunch of branches got wiped out and billions if not trillions got killed? Have the characters just stare at a screen and look sad. Loki needs to learn how to control his time powers? Most of it will just happen off screen or literally in a text box that they put on screen.

His final action was a decent send-off for the character but the final two episodes could have been stretched out over the entire season instead of an entire episode focusing on Brad.

I think overall I liked Loki 1 better. Too much of Season 2 was spent hanging around the TVA, and one and a half episodes were wasted on Brad and the rogue agents, which I did not care about at all. They also really didn't know what to do with Sylvie for most of it.

I enjoyed how Season 1 hopped around to various apocalypses and things, and of course the episode with all the Lokis was excellent too. Season 2 certainly had the better finale, though, and it was probably the best episode overall too.

Going to see The Marvels tomorrow, since it looks like the theater is still gonna be pretty empty. The night before, and the theater was still only 3% full. It sucks the movie's bombing, but I do like having a nearly empty theater, so this will be the first time I've seen a movie on opening weekend in awhile.

Yeah I saw a 9:45 showing tonight in Chicago and there were about 10 people in the theater, including me and my 4 friends.

Not a great comparison but when we saw Barbie in the same time slot the theater was completely full.

Like an entire season of Loki initially time skipping then slowly learning to control it, first to do stuff like save Frigga (which doesn't work because the branched timeline is even worse), maybe find a way to protect a younger Sylvie from the TVA and let her have a life outside of Apocalyptic Events. Loki traveling through time would have been a lot of fun (hence why I enjoyed episode 3 so much).

That would have been fun. This was just... they built the entire season around fixing a device that they never actually fix.

For me I loved the shift in structure and approach to the second season. It is doing the inverse of the first season which started big and time hopping then ended fairly small in a single location. That to me comes across as very deliberate and something you needed to stick with to see pay off. Similarly I thought the bait and switch of the loom was great. I can see why it all might not be to someones personal taste as its pretty different, but I thought it was a really smart way to continue the show. I will say though episode 4 was also very eventful and at that point were talking about half the season (slightly more accounting for episode length) in total!

On Captain Marvel reviews yeah my point was not that theyre great just that theyre not bad for what it is. For a 2023 MCU movie and more broadly a 2023 superhero movie the reviews are fine. I agree with GMUN the scale these movies are rated on has shifted. And of course with RT being a strict positive/negative dichotomy, if I were an RT critic I would have given all but Quantumania a positive review, but there would have been a hell of a lot of 3/5s.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

The disparity between RT and Metacritic is why I put little faith in either if these sites.

Movies with higher Metacritic scores can end up with lower fresh scores than movies with lower metacritic scores, and vice versa.

A movie can have pure 7s across the board and be 100% fresh, and movie with 99 100s and 1 40 ends up with a lower tomato score.

Well theyre both useful things just different. RT does show the average score too but doesnt surface it very well so you have to look. The big disparity is that RT is MUCH more lenient with reviews it shows while Metacritic just shows notable outlets, for which there are arguments going both ways.

I will say Episode 2 of Loki Season 2 was a huge whiff. I never felt at all concerned about "billions" of people dying on branched timelines, considering this is what the TVA has always done, and it really fell on the actor for B-15 just being really sad and saying "Those are people" in a really ham-fisted kind of way.

Still a great show though.

yeah Loki 2s my fav MCU show and Loki 1 was overal meh, but s2's second episode is absolutely the weekest

I shit on Lamentis but I enjoyed Loki & Sylvie's train chat. Brad episode... so much focus on a character we have no interest in, and a torture scene I wasn't buying at all since Loki clearly isn't in that kind of evil space anymore.

I liked seeing Loki use magic in the initial chase, but it was just a neat cold open that went nowhere (and felt like it came out of nowhere as well)

CelesMyUserName posted...

a torture scene I wasn't buying at all since Loki clearly isn't in that kind of evil space anymore.

We the audience know this, but Brad doesn't.

Marvels opening day is $21.3 million, just barely beating out The Incredible Hulk's record by a few thousand dollars, making it the new worst MCU opening. Whether it will lose out to the full Incredible Hulk opening weekend is yet to be seen.

I've got no skin in this race, but a lot of very annoying people are going to be very annoying about this and why they think it happened.

The YT thumbnails with "The Marvels: Go Woke Go Broke" are being mass manufactured as we speak

I've been having to spam "Do Not Recommend..." on shit ton already on YT, the Brie thumbnails have already been back and endless

I'm hoping with positive buzz and getting the actresses into the press circle that it can have longevity and make up for a poor opening weekend.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

The YT thumbnails with "The Marvels: Go Woke Go Broke" are being mass manufactured as we speak

As we all know, woke is when women

To highlight how "unwoke" it is, it didn't even get banned here

Dr Strange 2 was woker!

Oh no but Dr Strange 2 is bad, am I playing into the agenda???

Dr Strange 2 is great so youre safe

It's absolutely not lol

I have nothing against Brie, but she definitely peaked as Envy Adams and that fantastic Black Sheep cover.

Blonde Envy Adams, Wright's greatest sin.

GANON1025 posted...

Dr Strange 2 is great so youre safe

Agreed

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

As we all know, woke is when women

And minorities.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

The YT thumbnails with "The Marvels: Go Woke Go Broke" are being mass manufactured as we speak

Obviously this is all embarrassingly stupid to begin with, but what's even funnier is that The Marvels isn't even really trying to do a slightly-hamfisted feminist message like Captain Marvel did - it kind of feels like it's moved on past that. All it needs to do is put its awesome female leads front and center and let them do their thing, there's a sort of self-assured confidence of like "we don't need to do the whole 'wow, a woman superhero!' thing anymore, we've already arrived". Literally nothing is happening in this one except having women take the lead.

Hell, if anything, Captain Marvel marketing itself as a cultural moment is probably a huge part of why it did so well, and this one doesn't have "hey look, a female superhero!" to bank on. This movie literally is going less woke and is going broke for it.

I mean it's all just Marvel fatigue but it's pretty funny anyway.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Blonde Envy Adams, Wright's greatest sin.

The one flaw.

Those heels almost make up for it though.

I think the strike has really hurt The Marvels. I think Marvel fatigue is a thing - the brand is not where it once was where people will go see anything Marvel. I also think that Captain Marvel just isn't very popular - the first film benefitted highly from being post Infinity War, and therefore, post one of the biggest blockbuster cliffhangers ever.

But I also think this movie is Exhibit A for arguing that the Disney Plus experiment has failed, despite how good many of the shows are (I just finished talking about how great Loki S2 is). The film is trying to market itself as an ensemble cast when 2/3 of the leads have only appeared in Disney Plus shows.

The Marvels wasnt that good BUT, its been a very long time since we got a meaningful post-credit scene, so this movie was necessary.

Wasn't Ms. Marvel also the least watched of all of them too? Unless Secret Invasion beat it out.

I've heard it was the least-watched-as-it-was-coming-out, though to be fair to the show it was 'airing' alongside Obi-Wan which may stole viewers. Possibly people went back to Ms. Marvel after?

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Wasn't Ms. Marvel also the least watched of all of them too? Unless Secret Invasion beat it out.

Alas Secret Invasion actually did quite well. Ms. Marvel was well below the rest because Disney buried it with Obi-Wan.

The Marvels was decent! A bit jumbled though it had a few really standout sequences. The scene where theyre working out the switching, the musical planet, and the flerken scene were top notch. All three leads were terrific. Iman Vellani stole every scene she was in. Action scenes were better than in most of these films, and Nia DaCostas distinct visual eye shines through. There were definitely tonal problems however, some of the more serious scenes really jarred with the overall vibe of the film, especially with the Skrulls. You can clearly tell this one got a harsh edit. Its flawed but overall a fun superhero movie.

Oh also. It will shock you how much Secret Invasion never happened.

It doesnt matter for the story at all, Furys wife is nowhere to be seen, Fury himself is like a totally different character and much more in-line with his pre-Secret Invasion self, its implied the Skrull refugees are going to New Asgard which obviously could get them killed according to Secret Invasion, and more.

I wonder if theyll just eject it from the canon lol. Also, is it just me or was Valkyries accent off?

Marvels was fun.

I agree there was some tonal imbalances, but nowhere near as glaringly bad as Thor 4. It was mostly just the Skrull part being underbaked.

Cat scene was great, Kamala and family were great, first fight scene was great, Fury being Fury again was great.

Villain was serviceable. Lack of overall character moments for Carol was surprising, but not something I really even thought about until after the movie.

I assume Monica stinger will be picked up in Deadpool. It was great, oh and Kate Beeshop!

Let's not act like promotion doesn't matter. That's silly.

People watch YouTube clips of those interviews though

I've seen a fuckton of ads for the movie on YouTube. Can't escape it.

I don't think youtube ads are a great way to judge reach.

People either pay for Premium or block youtube ads with a 3rd party.

I haven't seen a single youtube ad in 4 years, I don't even know how they're structured anymore.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Neither movie was promoted.

I fucking knew Barbenheimer was a fever dream.

Oh I know, but I'm just saying. They're definitely out there advertising it. Just dunno in what other ways.

Ayyyy I saw The Marvels. It was a lot of fun! Some thoughts!

So I complained about Captain Marvel from the Captain Marvel movie, and this feels like the first time she's more in line with her comics counterpart and had all the stuff I love about the character. She's headstrong, a bit of a hot head, and determined to do the right thing. She's flawed, and she makes mistakes and that crushes her when it happens. THIS is the Captain Marvel that we needed to have. And I think she would have been far better received if she were like this in her debut. Brie Larson still feels like she's not a great fit for the character, and a couple of her scenes felt a bit rough, but overall she was many times better in this movie.

Ms. Marvel stole the show. Iman Vellani was the best casting they could have done with this character.

Concerning Spectrum (or whatever they want to call Monica now), I think she was also really good in the movie. Her story beats were done well and her actress was great. The only negative is that she didn't end up in the NEXTWAVE universe. Feels bad.

The plot was fine, but the swapping gimmick was fun. Music planet was fun. Just a fun film, and I missed jumping into Marvel movies and just having a fun time with a measured amount of jokes and good action, and this gave it to me. The villain was whatever, but that's what you get when you drag a character who was in like five comics and then make them important. I don't really have a lot to say about the plot.

BUT THEY'RE FINALLY DOING SOMETHING WITH THE YOUNG AVENGERS! Fucking hell, finally. And I am 100% alright with Kate Bishop going "You know I'm 23, right?" Like yeah, okay. I don't have to keep bitching about how they are wasting the idea of the YOUNG Avengers by having them all age out. Call them the Champions. New Avengers. Whatever you have to do. Give me more of this and don't make me wait until Secret Wars (I'll be waiting until Secret Wars).

I do not care about bad CGI Beast, the old X-Men universe, or any of this multiverse shit make it end for the love of god. Get this nostalgia bait the hell away from the MCU and focus on your own shit. Shi'ar are coming from this, so I guess we'll get DEATHBIRD out of it, who is strangely Captain Marvel's longest running archvillain.

But this movie with it's mediocre antagonist makes me so fed up and wanting Moonstone already. I am quickly losing hope she'll be on the Thunderbolts since that movie looks like it's going to suck and isn't taking the fun and interesting concept of it and is instead giving us freaking Secret Avengers (SO CALL IT SECRET AVENGERS). It's just irritating that Moonstone would be awesome in one of these movies and we're passing her up again.

And finally, give me SWORD and give me Abigail Brand already. Abigail Brand would rule in the MCU, especially with all of this space bullshit going on. We need a no-nonsense been over it before it started leader of this space group. Fury is fun, but hand it over to Brand!

Seanchan posted...

t's funny, after the post about "big mid-credit spoilers", I was going to say something about "maybe they run into the Shi'ar Empire" since it's a space movie. But that would have been too obscure for most people to recognize Lilandra or someone like that. Turns out, was X-Men related! Apparently that was OG X-Men movie Beast, and someone called Binary (unknown to my limited comic knowledge).

Binary is another name Carol Danvers went by in the comics before she was Captain Marvel (and a moniker she took on while she was hanging out with the X-Men [in fact, she first got her cosmic powers in an X-Men issue])

And fun fact, Monica was Captain Marvel in the comics waaay before Carol took up the mantle.

Sure, Barbenheimer was helped by both months of preceding hype and in Barbie's case, heavy physical presence of marketing. But what about the exact opposite, low awareness because overall promotion is lackluster? Blue Beetle was a big victim of this, only two trailers and a few TV spots, Comic-Con the month before release could give a boost if the strikes didn't make the studios all pull out, and the main actor couldn't even mention the movie bringing a co-star to his own Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIhPrcZ-3Rc). Would be nice if The Marvels gets the push to convince more people to see it - Disney already got a 'surprisingly steady in spite of a lackluster opening' this year in Elemental, it's possible.

Oh no he did it again.

https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/1723605135023329761?s=19

did what again? I don't get it.

It is funny he tweeted that though, because he tweeted November 10 about watching a bad movie that night so lots of people were speculating/assuming that was this movie... so I guess that puts it in the clear, or he delayed that tweet by 2 days to keep mystery alive lol :(

Barbenheimer had months where the stars could go out and promote it. The strike started during Oppenheimers premiere.

MartinFF7 posted...

did what again? I don't get it.

It is funny he tweeted that though, because he tweeted November 10 about watching a bad movie that night so lots of people were speculating/assuming that was this movie... so I guess that puts it in the clear, or he delayed that tweet by 2 days to keep mystery alive lol :(

Whenever he watches a movie he likes he posts a big chunk on what he liked about it. Whenever he watches a movie he doesnt like he just posts saw _____.

Anyway, the point of my post was that the strike was only a part of the problem. It's really another case of the MCU's ambition backfiring on them.

Oh, one other thing I wanted to bring up about The Marvels.

Kamala's powers are so much better than her knock off Mr. Fantastic powers in every way. It's crazy to me that comics fans are wishing she had her old powers. Like nah, hard light stuff is a million times cooler and has a lot more applications and they were right to exchange it in the comics for this (despite it being the dumbest and worst way to do it). I legitimately think she might have caught on even more if she debuted with these powers in the comics, because they look awesome and all of her scenes are so dynamic when she's fighting with them.