Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Thread 5 (Gaza Invaded)

(+) Yeah! (+)

darkace77450 posted...

And Trump received 7 million fewer votes than Biden. You and I both know enthusiasm for Biden wasn't the driving force behind those 81 million votes.

12 million people who didn't vote for Trump hopped on the bandwagon. If that doesn't alarm you, why are we even having a discussion?

darkace77450 posted...

You do know that American politics are inextricably entwined with the Israel/Hamas conflict, right?

These are news topics. Not debate topics. All I ever ask is to not debate. This thread has already lost 8 pages

AltAccount3 posted...

These are news topics. Not debate topics. All I ever ask is to not debate. This thread has already lost 8 pages

The news is about Biden's approval ratings among his voters tanking due to how he is handling the response to the war.

Every negative thing Israel does eats away at Biden's support, until he calls for them to stop.

Israel bombs a playground, he sheds support. When they bomb a hospital, he sheds support. When they bomb a refugee camp, he sheds support.

How politicians are reacting is directly correlated to how the war goes. When the US grows some balls and tells Israel to fuck off, this topic likely ceases to matter. Until then, the topic rolls ahead, because of US politics.

Forty_Niners posted...

The news is about Biden's approval ratings among his voters tanking due to how he is handling the response to the war.

Every negative thing Israel does eats away at Biden's support, until he calls for them to stop.

Yes but you posted that news 5 hours ago, it's been pushed back 8 pages lol. Everyone has already reacted to it. Now it's just a debate that has done nothing but waste pages. It has pushed back other news that has happened within the 5hrs.

We're in Live Thread 5 man, we should all know these debates don't lead anywhere.

Kradek posted...

ISIS has conquered parts of Iraq and Syria with 33k deaths attributed to them as well as their intentional destruction of historical artifacts.

If Hamas had the capability to fully invade Israel they wouldnt hesitate. Now is the chance to dismantle Hamas before they become big enough to engulf whole countries and enact terror attacks outside of their own borders. And it shouldve been done even sooner than this so so many innocent Palestinians wouldnt get caught in the crossfire.

Biden knows this, which is why he is giving Israel all the support it needs, so Americans dont have to get their hands dirty. Just the same as with Ukraine and Russia. Im personally against such cynical diplomacy. I think a full on international coalition of peace keeping forces and humanitarian programs should be in Gaza but that will never happen. US and EU will never get their hands dirty, like I already said

Is Israel dismantling Hamas, or dismantling Gaza?

Funding Israel's military aparatus will never dismantle Hamas. That's not how retaliatory extremist groups work.

Sorry, I'm not really in the practice of entertaining alternate realities.

"If Hamas had"

But they don't. I don't know why you have this insistence on proving Hamas is the worst terrorist organization in existence, but they're not, and I can only conclude you need them to be for some pro-Israeli government shilling purposes.

I don't know if you realize this, however this conflict has happened for a very long time and each time Hamas kills some Israelis the Israeli response is tenfold that. There's charts outlining who has killed who over the years and the bodies the IDF make is always grossly disproportionate.

No, Hamas are not decent people by any stretch of the imagination, but much of the world is sick of Israel's bullshit genocidal practices, which we see in Netanyahu also using the term "river to the sea" and even showing a map of how he wants that version of Israel to look.

Like I said, come back to reality. The majority of Americans will fully support Bidens stance on Hamas and support of Israel. For him to NOT take this hardline stance against Hamas and Russia would be political suicide and would weaken the USs geopolitical power. That is how real politics work. World leaders are not getting their education and Intel from TikTok and Reddit

LaManoNeraII posted...

Like I said, come back to reality.

That's cute coming from the person trying to say Hamas is the worst terrorist organization to have ever existed, even worse than ISIS, when ISIS has objectively done more damage and caused more death.

But I see you're not interested in having any sort of logical or fact-based conversation, you're just arguing off of emotions, so guess that's it.

LaManoNeraII posted...

Like I said, come back to reality. The majority of Americans will fully support Bidens stance on Hamas and support of Israel. For him to NOT take this hardline stance against Hamas and Russia would be political suicide and would weaken the USs geopolitical power. That is how real politics work. World leaders are not getting their education and Intel from TikTok and Reddit

We're opposing one genocide in Ukraine while supporting another in Palestine. Unless you think over 13,000 dead were mostly all terrorists or some bullshit.

LaManoNeraII posted...

If Hamas had the capability to fully invade Israel they wouldnt hesitate. Now is the chance to dismantle Hamas before they become big enough to engulf whole countries and enact terror attacks outside of their own borders.

Likud has the "mandate" and capability to fully invade Palestine, and they haven't hesitated. Israel has become big enough to engulf a whole country (Palestine) and has started attacking outside its own borders, too, having struck out at Lebanon and threatened Iran on at least one occasion.

Israel's right to exist does not negate the right of Palestine to exist, and they seem to be acting like it does, under the auspices of "dismantling hamas."

LaManoNeraII posted...

And it shouldve been done even sooner than this so so many innocent Palestinians wouldnt get caught in the crossfire.

Who's killed more innocent Palestinians at this point? Just to get it on the record.

LaManoNeraII posted...

For him to NOT take this hardline stance against Hamas and Russia would be political suicide and would weaken the USs geopolitical power.

Biden's hardline stance on Russia and the hardline stance on Hamas have to be two very different hardlines. Because the same hardline stance he's taking against Hamas is going to result in Palestinian genocide. It's not going to result in Russian genocide.

There's a scale of atrocity involved here to consider.

LaManoNeraII posted...

The majority of Americans will fully support Bidens stance on Hamas and support of Israel.

How do you explain the fact that they don't?

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/19/poll-bidens-standing-hits-new-lows-amid-israel-hamas-war.html
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/15/1212913674/poll-israel-hamas-war-biden-democrats-republicans

LaManoNeraII posted...

For him to NOT take this hardline stance against Hamas and Russia would be political suicide and would weaken the USs geopolitical power.

It's just the opposite that's playing out: countries in the global south see a hypocritical US:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/us/ukraine-gaza-global-south-hypocrisy.html
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2023/1102/US-bid-to-cement-global-leadership-stumbles-in-Gaza

Both a senior Israeli source and a senior Hamas member reject the claims of an alleged agreement made between the countries to start a ceasefire as a way to transport hostages. The deal looks to be confirmed as an entirely made up rumor. ~ The Guardian.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9535fedd.jpg

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/19/israel-hamas-war-live-15-dead-in-central-and-southern-gaza-attacks-say-palestinians

Intro2Logic posted...

Is Israel dismantling Hamas, or dismantling Gaza?

I dont the two are necessarily mutually exclusive.

The real question is whether or not its possible to do one without the other.

AltAccount3 posted...

If the politics debate doesn't stop, some temporary blocks are gonna go out

Make them permanent, this topic should be for news about the conflict only.

AltAccount3 posted...

Both a senior Israeli source and a senior Hamas member reject the claims of an alleged agreement made between the countries to start a ceasefire as a way to transport hostages. The deal looks to be confirmed as an entirely made up rumor. ~ The Guardian.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9535fedd.jpg

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/19/israel-hamas-war-live-15-dead-in-central-and-southern-gaza-attacks-say-palestinians

Fuck, that sucks

Ricemills posted...

Make them permanent, this topic should be for news about the conflict only.

To add onto darkace's post, how do you do that without also bringing politics into it?

Have a bunch of people go "aw man that sucks!"?

Because anything more than that and it becomes "political".

This is not a situation that can be separated from politics because it's based off politics. People are not wrong for discussing a topic as political when it is inherently implied.

Kradek posted...

To add onto darkace's post, how do you do that without also bringing politics into it?

Have a bunch of people go "aw man that sucks!"?

Because anything more than that and it becomes "political".

This is not a situation that can be separated from politics because it's based off politics. People are not wrong for discussing a topic as political when it is inherently implied.

The point isn't the politics, the point is this is a news only topic and the TC doesn't want long debates that fill up the topic.

Commenting is fine.
Long debates are for other topics.

Intro2Logic posted...

Is Israel dismantling Hamas, or dismantling Gaza?

Yes.

Kradek posted...

To add onto darkace's post, how do you do that without also bringing politics into it?

Have a bunch of people go "aw man that sucks!"?

Because anything more than that and it becomes "political".

This is not a situation that can be separated from politics because it's based off politics. People are not wrong for discussing a topic as political when it is inherently implied.

If you're really that itching to post about the politics of this war, at least limit it only about the ones that directly involved, like Israel, Netanyahu, Palestine, Hamas, etc.
Not derailing this topic about fucking US election.

14 Palestinians killed by Israeli airstrikes in Rafah, southern Gaza town near the Egypt border. WTF? https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-tanks-reported-near-hospital-embattled-north-gaza-2023-11-20/

They're going deep into south Gaza with strikes

Kradek posted...

That's cute coming from the person trying to say Hamas is the worst terrorist organization to have ever existed, even worse than ISIS, when ISIS has objectively done more damage and caused more death.

But I see you're not interested in having any sort of logical or fact-based conversation, you're just arguing off of emotions, so guess that's it.

Check out some of that posters contributions to one of the recent vegan topics and youll see a pattern.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I dont the two are necessarily mutually exclusive.

The real question is whether or not its possible to do one without the other.

Yes, its possible not to spend 75 years imprisoning and culling an ethnicity. Its possible not to bomb hospitals and schools. Its possible not to fund the enemy yourself so as to provide an excuse to do so.

We already know Israel can do no wrong in your book. Youve spent the last month making that clear.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I dont the two are necessarily mutually exclusive.

The real question is whether or not its possible to do one without the other.

Yes. It is possible, and they are mutually exclusive.

Dismantling Gaza emboldens Hamas. Dismantling Haamas necessitates emboldening Gaza.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Yes. It is possible, and they are mutually exclusive.

Dismantling Gaza emboldens Hamas. Dismantling Haamas necessitates emboldening Gaza.

I feel like if that were true, it would have already happened.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I feel like if that were true, it would have already happened.

No comment on my post?

Ricemills posted...

If you're really that itching to post about the politics of this war, at least limit it only about the ones that directly involved, like Israel, Netanyahu, Palestine, Hamas, etc.
Not derailing this topic about fucking US election

Really weird to come into topics about a motherfucking war and cry about people derailing it with politics. Perhaps no one should share anything about said war if political discussion is not desired.

hockeybub89 posted...

Really weird to come into topics about a motherfucking war and cry about people derailing it with politics. Perhaps no one should share anything about said war if political discussion is not desired.

Cause the topic is about news and some light discussion. Not endless debates.

Kradek posted...

Sorry, I'm not really in the practice of entertaining alternate realities.

"If Hamas had"

But they don't. I don't know why you have this insistence on proving Hamas is the worst terrorist organization in existence, but they're not, and I can only conclude you need them to be for some pro-Israeli government shilling purposes.

I don't know if you realize this, however this conflict has happened for a very long time and each time Hamas kills some Israelis the Israeli response is tenfold that. There's charts outlining who has killed who over the years and the bodies the IDF make is always grossly disproportionate.

No, Hamas are not decent people by any stretch of the imagination, but much of the world is sick of Israel's bullshit genocidal practices, which we see in Netanyahu also using the term "river to the sea" and even showing a map of how he wants that version of Israel to look.

https://youtu.be/hBklfXd9ra4?t=88

https://youtu.be/mA35An0mMOY?si=VWp7WG0bEiMwAUQ1

hockeybub89 posted...

Really weird to come into topics about a motherfucking war and cry about people derailing it with politics. Perhaps no one should share anything about said war if political discussion is not desired.

This is the fifth topic and you still doesn't get it, do you?
TC even had to close and remake one of the topic because people derailing it with come and forth banters.

Tora_Sami posted...

Cause the topic is about news and some light discussion. Not endless debates.

Tough shit. They can not even bring up the topic if they don't want more than "light discussion" to come from it. Crying that the joke of a moderation staff needs to continue to try and silence sensitive topics is ridiculous.

It's like saying a school shooting topic doesn't need to involve political arguments. Or that discussing the ocean need not include water.

hockeybub89 posted...

Tough shit. They can not even bring up the topic if they don't want more than "light discussion" to come from it. Crying that the joke of a moderation staff needs to continue to try and silence sensitive topics is ridiculous.

Also a user doesn't "own" the topic they started. If it drifts away from its original premise, deal with it.

"Stop derailing my topic" is a laughable example of how much the person saying it overestimates the value of their opinion.

Ricemills posted...

This is the fifth topic and you still doesn't get it, do you?
TC even had to close and remake one of the topic because people derailing it with come and forth banters.

Seems like TC is a bit of idealist for thinking that's possible. And on that note, what is posting the same kind of news over and over gonna change? Hamas are still terrorists. Israel is still committing genocide. If this was a topic some people found less desirable, they'd be crying that the same news doesn't need to be posted over and over.

hockeybub89 posted...

Tough shit. They can not even bring up the topic if they don't want more than "light discussion" to come from it. Crying that the joke of a moderation staff needs to continue to try and silence sensitive topics is ridiculous.

It's like saying a school shooting topic doesn't need to involve political arguments. Or that discussing the ocean need not include water.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Also a user doesn't "own" the topic they started. If it drifts away from its original premise, deal with it.

"Stop derailing my topic" is a laughable example of how much the person saying it overestimates the value of their opinion.

How about y'all just stay out of the fuckin topic then?

Can someone explain how people believe that IDF when over and over they just keep lying. But every time they say something people take them out their word, like I honestly don't understand this .

I don't know how anyone can honestly think this "war" is still about Hamas when Israeli officials keep saying what they actually want.
https://twitter.com/scottlong1980/status/1726448187739926580

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I feel like if that were true, it would have already happened.

When? When has Israel tried to bolster Gaza at all, let alone in a way that would encourage the state to dismantle hamas?

Netanyahu is basically on record as needing hamas in a sick, co-parasitic relationship.

There's no hope of hamas disappearing as long as Israel keeps <gestures at everything>.

CommonStar posted...

I don't know how anyone can honestly think this "war" is still about Hamas when Israeli officials keep saying what they actually want.
https://twitter.com/scottlong1980/status/1726448187739926580

That's not even damming. That's just a policy statement. Holy shit.

DnDer posted...

That's not even damming. That's just a policy statement. Holy shit.

Please understand that's not just policy, it's ethnic cleansing/displacement.

We will still have around two million people in Gaza, many of whom voted for Hamas and celebrated the massacre of innocent men, women, and children.

And that's collective punishment attributing the crimes of Hamas to the population of Gaza.

CommonStar posted...

Please understand that's not just policy, it's ethnic cleansing/displacement.

And that's collective punishment attributing the crimes of Hamas to the population of Gaza.

Sounds like the Americans whom Israel killed was "collective punishment attributing the crimes of the United States Presidents" for the past decades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc

CommonStar posted...

Please understand that's not just policy, it's ethnic cleansing/displacement.

I meant that ethnic cleansing has become an open policy statement. That was my shock.

Damn so not only did the PA recently deny the Oct 7 Hamas massacre occurred and claimed it was Israeli helicopters that bombed the music festivals, they will be paying a total of $2,789,430 to the families of Hamas terrorists killed in the attack as they are classified as "martyrs" under PA law. .

And Hezbollah has fired over 1000 munitions from Southern Lebanon displacing 10s of thousands of Israelis.

How is Israeli supposed to ceasefire under these conditions?

Hopefully the whole leadership of Israel gets voted out and something worse doesn't come in its place

penguin223 posted...
User Since: Jan 2006
Karma: 788
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Who's coward alt is this?

did you even read what i said?