Current Events > Pro-Palestine protestors to Biden: "No cease-fire, no votes."

(+) Yeah! (+)

1337toothbrush posted...

I've yet to hear anyone explain how voting for democrats will change anything when the democrats themselves say that "America needs a strong republican party". Why does the country need a strong fascist party?

The Democrats saying that mean they want a moderate Republican party.

I don't agree that we need a GOP at all, but they're not saying they want fascists.

I think most of us can agree that the massacre of Gazan civilians (as an isolated issue) should cease. But the idea that it has anything to do with Democrat success or failure is vastly overestimating how much anybody in the US (and for that matter, the world) cares about them. That's the sad truth.

Inohira posted...

The Democrats saying that mean they want a moderate Republican party.

I don't agree that we need a GOP at all, but they're not saying they want fascists.

Democrats are the moderate republican party.

Gladius_ posted...

I also will be honest. I don't respect your argument and after our last debate I realized playing nice to it is pointless. I don't care for your teenage rebellion mindset or honestly arguing with you about it when you're a grown man. It's teenager down to "I don't care about the future because I won't be alive to see it!" Grow up. The world doesn't revolve around you.

That's cool. But the Democratic party has shown that they're responsive to that type of behavior when centrists do it. Ever since the 90s they have endlessly pandered to moderates who may have agreed with them on social issues, but were willing to burn everything down over taxes and inflation. In pursuit of those voters and appeasement of donors and compromise with the Republicans they deregulated banks, cut entitlements, withdrew domestic funding, restricted bankruptcy, shaved capital gains taxes, and so on and so forth.

At the end of the day there's no good justification as to why centrists get to act a certain why but nobody else does. You're demanding that we change our behavior despite Democrats rewarding it from others.

Inohira posted...

The Democrats saying that mean they want a moderate Republican party.

I don't agree that we need a GOP at all, but they're not saying they want fascists.

That's 100% what Pelosi meant with her remarks, and she wasn't ambiguous about it.

She explicitly cites the GOP that supported environmental protection and abortion rights, referencing Nixon's creation of the EPA and the Republicans who supported Roe v. Wade before the rise of Evangelicalism in politics. She also explicitly calls today's GOP a cult.

The sentiment of her statement is that there will continue to be conservatives in America for the foreseeable future, and they can either be represented by reasonable people like John McCain or lunatics like MTG.

Whether or not they agree with her sentiment, any reasonable person can understand that her statement is more nuanced than "she's a Republican cheerleader", as tooth has repeatedly put forth in this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUsuoeR5eDY

I wish we could get rid of the GOP and add in a true Progressive Party. And Democrats could be the new conservatives

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

What an insufferable thing to say LMAO.

What do you think the republican party will do if they say.. lost the next 8 elections in a row? How do you think the republican party at that point will look like? If right wing extremists caused them to lose over and over do you think they will still keep the vocal extremists around? Or do you think they will try to appeal to people further on the left than they do now?

I think they will try and get rid of democracy and then just purge and kill everyone that does not agree with them instead of " settling with inferior beings".

Necronmon posted...

I think they will try and get rid of democracy and then just purge and kill everyone that does not agree with them instead of " settling with inferior beings".

the most loyal rabid Trump supporters were shaking in their boots when one officer fired one shot in one body

I think the Republican party is less resistent to shifting than you may want to think.

1. Our electoral systems, from gerrymandered districts to the Senate to the EC, have tended to benefit them and meant that they do not really need to win a majority of public support.
2. The party of capital is always going to hold capital's views, and there will be propaganda networks committed to promoting those views.

Remember, the GOP had a very public "introspection" following the 2012 election. They had open debates over whether their stances were driving voters away, and then four years later Trump was their nominee.

the most loyal rabid Trump supporters were shaking in their boots when one officer fired one shot in one body

They are still trying to make the Government Christian Iran though....now they have a fanatic for the head of the house.

Trump is outright saying he wants to become a fascist his second term with stuff like this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/05/trump-revenge-second-term/

CountCorvinus posted...

There. Are. No. Non-Radical. Republicans.

It's shit like this that's making me vote third party. No group of people is a hive mind, and the longer you insist they are, the more voters you're going to lose.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



I don't discount this because I'm a black immigrant and I sure as hell wouldn't be able to have the life I have, my sisters wouldn't be able to have the life they have without the significant progress made since the 60s. And that legislative/policy progress came ENTIRELY from the Democratic Party. But you mention the Dems of the 60s. That was the last time the Dems were a working class party and did things that upset capital.

In the time since then, the Democratic Party has shifted significantly to the right on almost every economic issue and the American people have lost affordable healthcare, pensions, unions, affordable housing, affordable schooling, worker protections, regulated banks, high paying low education/effort jobs, and direct influence over the economy with the support or acquiescence of the Democratic Party. That trend has included Biden's entire career, and the entire Obama admin and is just now starting to slow, not even reverse.

I disagree that the Dems will end up fascist, I just don't think there's anything automatic that says the party will become good enough to truly fight fascists. The Democratic Party is a party that tries to improve on social issues while not rocking the apple cart on economic issues/pissing off capital too much. It doesn't or refuses to understand the cap that places on social progress. Because of the awkward middle ground they've chosen, they get flack for not fixing longstanding issues/permanent injustices AND for upending society by caring about minorities. That's how Hilary lost. And that's exactly what's ailing Biden.

Full_Pokedex posted...

It's shit like this that's making me vote third party. No group of people is a hive mind, and the longer you insist they are, the more voters you're going to lose.

Things an enlightened centrist tends to say. It's been proven that there are only two types of Republicans; those who are crazy, and those who are too scared to stand up to the crazy.

The reason the democrats are how they are, is because there sponsors won't allow it any other way. The reason third party's are a joke, is because those with all the power see them as a joke.

Those with all the power decide all the rules, those with no power can't change anything, millions of angry poor peasants can't do a damn thing compared to what the handful of gods decide.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yep, sounds like we're largely aligned, as usual. We should issue strong threats, get every progressive we can, push the party to the left, and mitigate damage when we can't do that by voting against the Republican Party one trillion percent of the time. That's going to mean voting blue in practice, for the near future at least.

I fucking hate abstainers. Like will that strong message even matter if you get that fat fucker in office again? Really? Dumbasses.

Nok_Su_Kow posted...

I fucking hate abstainers. Like will that strong message even matter if you get that fat fucker in office again? Really? Dumbasses.

I'm not voting because I don't care anymore. Both sides are shit and a third party being elected is a near impossiblity.

Full_Pokedex posted...

It's shit like this that's making me vote third party. No group of people is a hive mind, and the longer you insist they are, the more voters you're going to lose.

There are sub-factions of sorts within the Republican party. Such as single-issue voters who want abortion bans, or oppose gun control.

One small problem with the idea of not voting in order to teach Democrats a lesson is that they are so bad at learning. The lesson they took from Hillary's defeat is that they should nominate even more of a centrist in 2020.

Antifar posted...

One small problem with the idea of not voting in order to teach Democrats a lesson is that they are so bad at learning. The lesson they took from Hillary's defeat is that they should nominate even more of a centrist in 2020.

And considering that centrist got more votes than most candidates and has actually been fairly effective in his position and passed a good number of progressive acts says that it was a good idea.

Do I think Biden is perfect? No. But he's better than the alternative and until forced rank choice voting happens I will continue to vote for the lesser of two evils when the other evil is near totalitarian evangelism

Full_Pokedex posted...

I'm not voting because I don't care anymore. Both sides are shit and a third party being elected is a near impossiblity.

You never cared in the first place. You've never had anything at risk or anything to lose.

Arguing with people who make the choice to remove themselves from the political process just aren't worth the time at this point.

Better to focus on those who create hurdles for themselves in terms of the steps to take to actually cast votes and get them motivated

The "all politicians suck" is a 420 session masquerading as political opinion that warrants debate when it doesn't.

Anyone who brings "both sides are shit" can shove it right up their fucking ass.

Only one side wants to install a totalitarian government.

if these protestors let trump win in 24 they're gonna have to deal with the trans community blaming them for all the issues in their lives. I'm not trans, but I know enough to say it's gonna be ugly. :v You'll never hear the end of it.

hockeybub89 posted...

You never cared in the first place. You've never had anything at risk or anything to lose.

That's Duncan, right?

hockeybub89 posted...

You never cared in the first place. You've never had anything at risk or anything to lose.

I cared. Then you called my family Nazis and you lost my support.

Full_Pokedex posted...

I cared. Then you called my family Nazis and you lost my support.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a6742d4e.jpg

Full_Pokedex posted...

I cared. Then you called my family Nazis and you lost my support.

If it quacks like a duck. Someone provide a list of antisemitic tweets by Trump.

mistymermaid posted...

If it quacks like a duck. Someone provide a list of antisemitic tweets by Trump.

You don't know any damned thing about my family so shut your darned mouth.

We know who they vote for

Antifar posted...

We know who they vote for

And?

Do votes matter? do they reflect one's priorities in any way?

Necronmon posted...

The reason the democrats are how they are, is because there sponsors won't allow it any other way. The reason third party's are a joke, is because those with all the power see them as a joke.

Those with all the power decide all the rules, those with no power can't change anything, millions of angry poor peasants can't do a damn thing compared to what the handful of gods decide.

Millions of angry poor peasants can't do a damn thing until they work together and are outside the elite's houses with pitchforks and torches. Which is exactly why people in power love the two party system.

Go Trump, at least hes open about his racism, unlike Genocide Joe.

Full_Pokedex posted...

You don't know any damned thing about my family so shut your darned mouth.

Voting Republican tells us everything we need to know about them.

Ya_dun_goofed posted...

Go Trump, at least hes open about his racism, unlike Genocide Joe.

You know how I know you don't know what you're talking about?

It must be nice to be a Republican in an election and not actually have to do anything to secure your votes.