Current Events > No Tip Warning Appears On DoorDash In Updated Feature

(+) Yeah! (+)

hockeybub89 posted...

Quitting is such a braindead protest. People don't want to lose their jobs, they want to improve them, to control them.

If youre not willing to leave a job that abuses you and doesnt think youre worth even the minimum wage, then Im not sure what to tell you.

And that mentality is exactly what the companies count on to keep you around making pennies on the dollar.

For 12 years, I worked a civil service position as an aircraft mechanic. I started off making $33/hr. 12 years later with a promotion, I was making $38/hr. My wage increases didnt even match inflation. So I applied for a private sector job making $35/hr because the room for growth was much higher. Two years later, I am at $39/hr. Once my other coworkers did the same, the colonel in charge petitioned a cost of living adjustment that brought the civil service wages to 2% higher than the private sector average for the locality because he was bleeding experienced aircraft mechanics.

Thats how you make change.

ai123 posted...

What happens when a corporation refuses to pay a wage?

Do you think customers should pay extra for a product to make up for that?

Do you think that if they don't the blame should lie with the customer?

The customer's actions support the corporation, so yeah, they are at fault by association and are easy to draw money to rectify the situation since they are not identityless and easier to treat with the malice that they deserve. The average person is more likely to encounter one of these crappy Mr. Pink wannabes than Door Dash's CEO.

I don't use any of these delivery services. So to the people in this thread saying "then go get it yourself!": that's exactly what I do.

That said, my tip is based on the quality of service. I don't tip a waiter until after the meal, so I wouldn't tip a delivery guy until after he has made the delivery. I've had pizza delivered before and I've always either written a tip on the receipt or given the driver cash on the spot. I'm actually a very generous tipper, but you aren't getting it until the end of our transaction.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Which is all well and good, except that it's putting a huge burden on the people least able to shoulder it.

I mean, follow the chain of events to it's logical conclusion. If you don't tip and your order goes through as a $2 job to the driver, how does it get delivered? The better-off drivers who can afford to pass on that job will skip it without a second look. Which means, if UT gets delivered, it is getting picked up by a driver who really, REALLY needs every dollar they can get. So much so that working for pennies on your 2-dollars-for-40-minutes job is acceptable to them.

And telling someone that desperate to just quit to stick it to the employers is rich. Real "some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make" type stuff.

If the customers stop using the service, the driver is still out of a job, but not on their own terms with another job lined up.

Also wasn't all this bullshit thanks to assholes who would initially offer a HUGE tip to entice drivers to go to their house first, only to cancel the tip at the last moment?

pnut027 posted...

If youre not willing to leave a job that abuses you and doesnt think youre worth even the minimum wage, then Im not sure what to tell you.

And that mentality is exactly what the companies count on to keep you around making pennies on the dollar.

For 12 years, I worked a civil service position as an aircraft mechanic. I started off making $33/hr. 12 years later with a promotion, I was making $38/hr. My wage increases didnt even match inflation. So I applied for a private sector job making $35/hr because the room for growth was much higher. Two years later, I am at $39/hr. Once my other coworkers did the same, the colonel in charge petitioned a cost of living adjustment that brought the civil service wages to 2% higher than the private sector average for the locality because he was bleeding experienced aircraft mechanics.

Thats how you make change.

Brilliant.

Yet something tells me that the person willing to take a $2 job for an hour of their time is a BIT more desperate to survive than an aircraft mechanic making $30+ per hour.

After all, if they weren't that desperate, they'd have declined the delivery like all the other drivers.

Dont call it a tip if it is a fee.

Umbreon posted...

Also wasn't all this bullshit thanks to assholes who would initially offer a HUGE tip to entice drivers to go to their house first, only to cancel the tip at the last moment?

Oh they still do that. Ubereats is notorious for it.

Unknown5uspect posted...

More like the bottom 40% now.

And yet, having some money is better than having zero money. Things don't have to be made worse to be made better. Other workers shouldn't face a single iota of your grievances or your personal problems.

thronedfire2 posted...

capitalism already writes off the bottom 10-15% so everyone else can benefit, cant get too much worse than that

We already are getting worse than that, because warped, unregulated capitalism that demands it always makes record profit each year inevitably writes off more and more people.

Foppe posted...

Dont call it a tip if it is a fee.

Well, no, because it's not REQUISITE as part of the transaction. It's a subjective amount that you as the consumer deem adequate.

It's just the way this is being handled smacks of shitty conduct on the part of the governing body in an effort to pay as little as possible and keep as much as they can.

Solid_Sonic posted...

Well, no, because it's not REQUISITE as part of the transaction. It's a subjective amount that you as the consumer deem adequate.

It's just the way this is being handled smacks of shitty conduct on the part of the governing body in an effort to pay as little as possible and keep as much as they can.

It's not a fee but it is a bid, straight up. Either way not a tip.

Solid_Sonic posted...

Well, no, because it's not REQUISITE as part of the transaction. It's a subjective amount that you as the consumer deem adequate.

I mean it's a requirement because if you don't, you don't get your food. America likes to do a lot of insincere bullshit to cover up what something really is.

Tips have been bribes Americia for the longest time, but "gratuity" just sounds so much nicer.

Unknown5uspect posted...

I'm not punishing anyone. Get it through your thick skull. The only one stiffing the worker is the company.

Did you ever stop to consider that by ising these services you are rewarding the very executives we are all railing against? And that by not tipping the employees--who won't be compensated any more than they already have been because there's no financial incentive for them to do so--you're still punishing the employees?

Again, if you don't want to tip someone for giving you their time, gas money, and car vehicle repair money, then just go pick up your own food, you lazy fuck.

pnut027 posted...

If youre not willing to leave a job that abuses you and doesnt think youre worth even the minimum wage, then Im not sure what to tell you.

And that mentality is exactly what the companies count on to keep you around making pennies on the dollar.

For 12 years, I worked a civil service position as an aircraft mechanic. I started off making $33/hr. 12 years later with a promotion, I was making $38/hr. My wage increases didnt even match inflation. So I applied for a private sector job making $35/hr because the room for growth was much higher. Two years later, I am at $39/hr. Once my other coworkers did the same, the colonel in charge petitioned a cost of living adjustment that brought the civil service wages to 2% higher than the private sector average for the locality because he was bleeding experienced aircraft mechanics.

Thats how you make change.

I think that's highly dependent on the industry. And sometimes people don't want to leave their job, they just want to fix it from the inside. Obviously, people should quit really bad jobs for better opportunities if they're able. I've done so. But that doesn't necessarily fix anything.

Eh, call it a bid if you want but to me bidding comes with some form of informed decision-making on the part of the bidder. This is almost a silent auction but I don't even know what a fair value to pay in the first place is (at least you can see what you're bidding on in a silent auction then bid based on what you want to pay by your own assessment). I have nothing to go on when it comes to trying to convince someone my order is important enough to service first (especially considering how little I care about turnaround times). If anything such a warning is more firmly convincing me NOT to tip because the values which DD attaches to tipping rarely if at all play into the sort of service I'm paying for. If for some reason faster service becomes more appealing to me for a particular order I'd first pay the "Direct to You" surcharge before attaching a tip by their own description of what I pay for when tipping.

Plus Doordash suggests tips based on the value of what you ordered so they treat it like a standard tip (I could order a modest sized dinner from a fancy-ass restaurant and Doordash might suggest a $16 tip for that even though the burger place in the same shopping center incurs the same drive but Doordash only suggests a $7 tip simply for spending less). You can change this at your own discretion but Doordash thinks you should pay more for ordering pricier things, despite the effort of the driver being no different either way.

Maybe Doordash should let you see what the average tip in the past two hours has been and let you decide how much above or below you feel comfortable paying to get service reflective of your "bid".

I accepted tips for restaurants due to tradition, but why are we allowing some web app to not pay people properly to deliver?

That's not a business model that should be supported with mandatory* tipping. They should just fucking pay the proper amount for the delivery. There's no excuse of it having been done the wrong way for years here.

How are people defending this shit?

Inohira posted...

There's no excuse of it having been done the wrong way for years here.

Have you never had a pizza delivered before? Yes there is.

Wow...Millennials whining about tipping.

Truly a a day that ends with a Y.

Inohira posted...

I accepted tips for restaurants due to tradition, but why are we allowing some web app to not pay people properly to deliver?

That's not a business model that should be supported with mandatory* tipping. They should just fucking pay the proper amount for the delivery. There's no excuse of it having been done the wrong way for years here.

How are people defending this shit?

On the contrary, I think it's more acceptable than restaurant tips.

hockeybub89 posted...

You're right! How selfish and stupid of employees to get mad at customers treating them like dirt when their bosses created the problem. They should just bend over and ask for another from the customer! They kinda have it coming for choosing to work somewhere where bad business practices turn customers into ogres!

when was there any interaction between the delivery driver and the customer?

answer: it was after the tip you demanded

frankly, you tip supporters have gone off the deep end along with the gun supporters

Sandalorn posted...

Wow...Millennials whining about tipping.

Truly a a day that ends with a Y.

Weren't we claiming this was a bid system, not "tipping"?

Xenogears15 posted...

Did you ever stop to consider that by ising these services you are rewarding the very executives we are all railing against? And that by not tipping the employees--who won't be compensated any more than they already have been because there's no financial incentive for them to do so--you're still punishing the employees?

Again, if you don't want to tip someone for giving you their time, gas money, and car vehicle repair money, then just go pick up your own food, you lazy fuck.

If we all did that, wouldn't these people be more fucked since their technically redundant unnecessary jobs wouldn't exist?

Careful what you wish for dude.

Solid_Sonic posted...

Weren't we claiming this was a bid system, not "tipping"?

And I can claim I am the Overlord of the Universe but it doesn't make it so. It's not a surprise shit people who hate tipping found another phrase to assuage their shittiness. Happens every day.

hockeybub89 posted...

You're right! How selfish and stupid of employees to get mad at customers treating them like dirt when their bosses created the problem. They should just bend over and ask for another from the customer! They kinda have it coming for choosing to work somewhere where bad business practices turn customers into ogres!

Yet they are willing to bend over repeatedly for their employers.

Once again, the working class are encouraged to fight amongst themselves, while the owner class laughs and counts the cash.

Do you find this system acceptable?

Inohira posted...

How are people defending this shit?

Inohira posted...

I accepted tips for restaurants due to tradition

Because what's the difference between an app doing it and some store owner doing it?

Sure tipping sucks and is just a way for corporations to put the brunt of employee wages on the customer. But using a service and not tipping while acknowledging all that just makes you an asshole. If you really want to fight "tipping culture" then stop using these services altogether.

Sandalorn posted...

And I can claim I am the Overlord of the Universe but it doesn't make it so. It's not a surprise shit people who hate tipping found another phrase to assuage their shittiness. Happens every day.

WTF are you talking about, I'm using THEIR description of the "tip". Doordash is the one saying "people who tip get their orders sooner." That's not a tip, that's a bid.

I tip my Lyft driver because they accepted the job to pick me up without knowing what extra I was going to pay at the end of the ride and I pay that extra based on how much personal value I felt was contributed by the driver during the ride. Am I not understanding how a tip operates?

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Brilliant.

Yet something tells me that the person willing to take a $2 job for an hour of their time is a BIT more desperate to survive than an aircraft mechanic making $30+ per hour.

After all, if they weren't that desperate, they'd have declined the delivery like all the other drivers.

Or they took it because no one else would, hoping the customer would h desperate enough to give an high tip because no one else would take the order.

Oh look, it's the tipping topic.

How entitled do you have to be to complain about contractors looking to get some money for a service that is 99% convenience? DoorDash could charge $1000 per order and it'd still get customers complaining, "Ugg, I can't believe these prices I have to pay."
Don't like it? Don't use it!

A lot of delivery drivers would struggle to get any other job, often because they can't speak English or the odd hours worked. If you have money to be LAZY and order DoorDash, you have money to tip well. And if you don't want to tip, those orders will get left waiting all day. Either get out of your house and pick up your fast food yourself, or shut up and tip. You don't need DoorDash, you don't need McDonald's, it's all convenience and if you have time to complain about it you are incredibly entitled.

pnut027 posted...

Or they took it because no one else would, hoping the customer would h desperate enough to give an high tip because no one else would take the order.

Yeah, this doesn't happen. There is not a driver alive who thinks the tip will be a penny higher than what the app shows

Umbreon posted...

Because what's the difference between an app doing it and some store owner doing it?

The app is relatively newer and should've been laughed out the building when it showed up pulling the same bullshit as established food chains.

At that point you're knowingly signing up for corporate greed. Like so:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DoorDash

DoorDash has been criticized and sued for withholding tips, reducing tip transparency, antitrust price manipulation, listing restaurants without permission, and allegedly misclassifying workers.

But we should all keep flushing cash down the toilet like good little customers instead of demanding the industry fix itself.

Whether it be in politics or delivery people here just love kicking the can down the road.

hockeybub89 posted...

I think that's highly dependent on the industry. And sometimes people don't want to leave their job, they just want to fix it from the inside. Obviously, people should quit really bad jobs for better opportunities if they're able. I've done so. But that doesn't necessarily fix anything.

Trust me, I DIDNT want to leave my job. My position as a bit unique in that in order to have the civil service position, you have to be in the Reserves. Look up the Air Reserve Technicians program. I left a job where I was considered the SME. I left behind people I deployed with. People I joined the military with. To take a private sector job testing superconductors. I was fucking terrified. I left behind my pension. My damn good health insurance. My TSP (government 401K). And the weirdest thing is that I still have to go back to that same exact place one weekend a month and two weeks out of the year because Im still a Reservist in that same unit.

Its not easy to leave, but protesting for what you deserve never is.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Yeah, this doesn't happen. There is not a driver alive who thinks the tip will be a penny higher than what the app shows

I feel like you cant definitively speak for all drivers.

I dislike how tipping exists the way it does in the U.S. given it's anti-worker origins. That being said, food delivery like doordash/uber is essentially a luxury and their workers are treated like garbage, so this is fine given how the system exists.

Ideally the gig economy is broken apart by Union organization and we never have to deal with this kind of shit again when it comes to horribly paid workers & consumers footing the bill on wages.

Luteo posted...

https://twitter.com/_SlimGoodieeee/status/1719118368396161223

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/5/AAazv8AAE_bN.jpg

It's so crummy that there are people out there this day and age that still don't tip...

What I find truly crummy are the shills more offended at people not tipping than at DoorDash for not paying a better wage.

The company is literally promoting we don't give a shit about paying the people that work for us.

Inohira posted...

But we should all keep flushing cash down the toilet like good little customers instead of demanding the industry fix itself.

If you are using the app at all, you aren't demanding it fix shit.

The app makes its money up front. It keeps all its fees and upcharges. The only people hurt are the drivers, who are not going to quit because they're already so desperate that they're running doordash orders.

Tipping ends when legislation says it ends. Not when thousands of drivers suddenly magically decide they're OK getting evicted or starving to death and quit.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

If you are using the app at all, you aren't demanding it fix shit.

/thread

I don't see how I'm the bad guy here. I use the app and I pay extra for the service I receive. I'm just disgruntled about the logic that drives me to pay that extra as opposed to what I believe tipping should really be about.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Maybe but that urge to be like "fuck that dude," keeps popping up and I just don't want to take that risk. Some people are too fucking petty.

Sandalorn posted...

And I can claim I am the Overlord of the Universe but it doesn't make it so. It's not a surprise shit people who hate tipping found another phrase to assuage their shittiness. Happens every day.

if you have to pay it before the service is rendered its not a tip. Cant just change the definition of the word.

RyukSan posted...

What I find truly crummy are the shills more offended at people not tipping than at DoorDash for not paying a better wage.

The company is literally promoting we don't give a shit about paying the people that work for us.

Then how would not tipping hurt the company if they're literally telling you that they don't care about the drivers?

No one has actually articulated how not tipping instigates change. The greedy company still makes their money. No one who needs to lose is losing.

I bet she doesn't offer any gas money to people she asks to give her a lift.

Well maybe Doordash drivers like to keep things as they are. After the changes instituted by Doordash to be more agreeable about their tipping culture the majority of drivers were fine with it so none of the people providing the service want to ask for different terms in order to alleviate the burden on customers to continue pre-tipping.

pnut027 posted...

Tips are the new racketeering scheme.

The mob should get in on the gig economy.

Where else did you thinking tipping started in the first place? Back in Prohibition, the speakeasies decided that the customer should also pay the waiters and waitresses via a tip because they wanted more money to themselves.

That festered into the system we have today, where for some ungodly reason businesses even now refuse to pay their employees fairly and deign it onto the customer instead.

ai123 posted...

Yet they are willing to bend over repeatedly for their employers.

Once again, the working class are encouraged to fight amongst themselves, while the owner class laughs and counts the cash.

Do you find this system acceptable?

It's not acceptable, but it is the current system, so no one has any right to take it out on the workers. I'm not the one encouraging infighting. Either fight for change or stop using those services completely. In the meantime, not tipping is disgusting. It is no different than any other poor treatment workers have at the hands of customers.

hockeybub89 posted...

Then how would not tipping hurt the company if they're literally telling you that they don't care about the drivers?

No one has actually articulated how not tipping instigates change. The greedy company still makes their money. No one who needs to lose is losing.

Tipping hurts the consumer, who are also the workers.

Now you have people who work for tips, paying the wages of people who work for tips.

Wheres the companys responsibility in this?

DarkBuster22904 posted...

The app makes its money up front. It keeps all its fees and upcharges. The only people hurt are the drivers, who are not going to quit because they're already so desperate that they're running doordash orders.

If all tips stopped we don't know how many of the drivers would quit or request a raise in pay. The poorest can't, but we don't know if the business model can sustain itself with just them.

But if it's true that as you say, only legislation can fix the problem, then we need to demand the election of anti-corporate politicians.

But oops, as implied earlier people demand you always vote for a lesser evil candidate, even if they're corporate as fuck. So no solution on the horizon there either. Convenient.