Current Events > How would you solve the Israel / Palestine conflict?

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LoveLikeJazz posted...

Abolish all religion lol that's the root of all this shit isn't it

Religion is just a symptom. Its not the cause imo. People have used religion for milenia to garner support and justify themselves. If religion wasnt there there would be something else theyd use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJzuC2IMNs

Reminder: He abolished ALL religions, and its not his fault one of his stupid sons set him up to be viewed as a god after that whole Horus nonsense went down.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

You can if one of the sides is trying to present themselves as infallible good guys

Everyone does that in war. Everyone thinks they are the good guys.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Youre out of your mind if you think thats what your reaction would be. I know what its like to see those damn rockets flying towards Tel Aviv. Someone shoots at you, your family, you want them dead. Which is probably why its a good idea that the families of military and government officials be protected by the secret service.

And if Im Israel, I dont play chicken or the egg with the history of the conflict while those assholes have someones kids in a bunker somewhere. The hell with that.

We're just cut from different cloth, I guess. Indefinite number of dead innocent people is not a price I'm gonna pay because someone shot at my family. And if my city/state/country was deliberately fanning the flames that lead to that scenario, I'm holding them partially responsible.

Should I be allowed to chuck a grenade into a crowd if I think someone who hurt my family is in the area? Like should I not be held liable for the murders I commit in my blind rage?

Do you apply the same logic to the Palestinians? Would you want some angry, grieving person to respond to Israel in the same way? Just a game of back and forth telephone, but it's played with bombs and dead children? Or are Palestinians not allowed to hold Israel at all responsible for killing them because Hamas started it?

This is the dilemma you have put yourself in. You either need to advocate endless back-and-forth bloody retaliation or come out and say Palestinians have no right to be mad at anyone but Hamas and themselves for what Israel does. Neither is a good look.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

You havent been in the situation. Which is lucky for you. I do wonder what your reaction was when the US got Bin Laden though. But ok, lets take you at your word. Lets say that your goal is only survival.

Do your odds of survival go up or down if you allow an organization that actively calls for genocide and acts on it against you to basically operated uninterrupted on your border? I mean they just keep shooting and shooting, they might not hit as much as they are intending, but the shooting does not stop. At what point do you say enough and actively move against them with everything you have?

Dont answer that, its a rhetorical question. We both know you are going try to circumvent the question and focus on how you got in the situation in the first place.

Let's ask the Palestinian people about the terrorism and genocide the IDF commits, see how they feel about it.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Let's ask the Palestinian people about the terrorism and genocide the IDF commits, see how they feel about it.

Ive already refuted the genocide accusation using the actual definition of the term.
hockeybub89 posted...

We're just cut from different cloth, I guess. Indefinite number of dead innocent people is not a price I'm gonna pay because someone shot at my family. And if my city/state/country was deliberately fanning the flames that lead to that scenario, I'm holding them partially responsible.

Should I be allowed to chuck a grenade into a crowd if I think someone who hurt my family is in the area? Like should I not be held liable for the murders I commit in my blind rage?

Do you apply the same logic to the Palestinians? Would you want some angry, grieving person to respond to Israel in the same way? Just a game of back and forth telephone, but it's played with bombs and dead children? Or are Palestinians not allowed to hold Israel at all responsible for killing them because Hamas started it?

This is the dilemma you have put yourself in. You either need to advocate endless back-and-forth bloody retaliation or come out and say Palestinians have no right to be mad at anyone but Hamas and themselves for what Israel does. Neither is a good look.

Of course I apply the same logic to the Palestinians. I understand where Hamas came from. Ive been saying since this whole thing started thats its the classic chicken and egg scenario with the cycle of violence.

What we are arguing over is who has to be the one to finally turn the other cheek and stop the cycle, and I think its unrealistic for the Israelis to do that when Hamas is kidnapping babies from their homes. I do put the blame squarely on Hamas for one reason and one reason only.

If they put down their guns and stop fighting, the conflict is over. Even if Israel is as bad as you say it is (its not) its too small of a country to risk further damage to its reputation by having MLK or Ghandi like protests with accusations of Apartheid while calling itself a democracy. They arent stupid.

If Israel puts down its guns, and Hamas doesnt, were still talking about dead Israeli civilians and rocket attacks from Gaza.

Thats the problem.

punkfanalways posted...

Religion is just an excuse. Its not the cause imo. People have used religion for milenia to garner support and justify themselves. If religion wasnt there there would be something else theyd use.

I suppose you're right. There's always something.

LoveLikeJazz posted...

I suppose you're right. There's always something.

Yeah nowadays its all about mah freedoms and the market

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Ive already refuted the genocide accusation using the actual definition of the term.

"Actual definition"?

https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/

Hmmmmmm...Israel definitely meets the criteria here

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/5/4/AAfd4kAAE-eG.jpg
Definitely meets the UN / Geneva Convention standards

There is no world in which Israel isn't committing genocide and you are just lapping up their propaganda to rush to their defense like the good little Imperial dog they want you to be.

punkfanalways posted...

well it seems like hes not hiding it anymore at least. Disgusting.

Finally looks like he got to the FO stage. Good riddance. Making holocaust jokes in this topic isnt on.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

If they put down their guns and stop fighting, the conflict is over.

FUCKING LOL. What a way to announce you have no idea whats going on

IceCreamOnStero posted...

FUCKING LOL. What a way to announce you have no idea whats going on

nah they know exactly what's going, they have made their stance perfectly clear.
they don't shill for the far right extremist government out of ignorance.

The first steps are to remove Netanyahu from power and reverse his self-destructive policies.

Under Netanyahu, Israel has worked to weaken the Palestinian Authority, prop up Hamas, and thwart destruction of Hamas's leadership. All of these policies went against the recommendations of his own defense and security experts.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4268794-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-netanyahu-and-hamas/amp/

AnsestralRecall posted...

"Actual definition"?

https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/

Hmmmmmm...Israel definitely meets the criteria here

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/5/4/AAfd4kAAE-eG.jpg
Definitely meets the UN / Geneva Convention standards

There is no world in which Israel isn't committing genocide and you are just lapping up their propaganda to rush to their defense like the good little Imperial dog they want you to be.

The birth rate for the Palestinians is going up, not down. My people went through a genocide. 2 out every 3 dead in four years. Not 3 per 1000.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/death-rate/
Math is hard.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

The birth rate for the Palestinians is going up, not down. My people went through a genocide. 2 out every 3 dead in four years. Not 3 per 1000.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/death-rate/
Math is hard.

The birth rate of Palestinians doesn't change whether a genocide is being attempted...

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

If Israel puts down its guns, and Hamas doesnt, were still talking about dead Israeli civilians and rocket attacks from Gaza.

Strangely enough, the posters in question don't seem to see that as a bad thing.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

The birth rate for the Palestinians is going up, not down. My people went through a genocide. 2 out every 3 dead in four years. Not 3 per 1000.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/death-rate/
Math is hard.

Yes, poor impoverished peoples tend to have more children.

Genocide isn't simply systematic mass murder of a people. If it were then I wouldn't be up in arms over the genocide the right wing are waging against trans people.

Mass sterilization. Genocide.

Any law that exists to directly prevent the public existence of a people. Genocide. (The bathroom bills were one of the first steps towards this wrt trans people. Can't use the bathroom safely? Can't exist in public.)

Forcibly separating parents from their children like Canada is well known for having done to its native populations.

Guessed right, genocide.

Your numbers change nothing. Israel is a genocidal apartheid state.

I know that as a proud little Zionist you need to toe the line of whatever Israel says is best and right, but wake the fuck up.

Israel is becoming more and more monstrous and will continue to do so unless stopped.

willythemailboy posted...

Strangely enough, the posters in question don't seem to see that as a bad thing.

What the fuck is with you people and implying the two options are: A) Do nothing and apologize to Hamas, or B) Blow up 10 times the innocent people and continue to do so until every terrorist or Palestinian is dead, whichever comes first.

And if someone doesn't pick B, you call them a terrorist that wants Islam to take over the world. Like what?

This is like when people say "Abolish the death penalty" and someone goes "Oh so you think serial killers shouldn't go to prison? We should tell them they are just different and we should help them find more vicitms to kill? Why are you a serial killer fan that hates innocent people?"

Hamas are terrorists AND the Israeli government is run by genocidal fascists. Fucking deal with it.

I would let them figure it out on own. America shouldnt be helping either of them. Why does our government care more about them than its own citizens?

punkfanalways posted...

I dont meant trite comments. I mean a genuine plan for deescalation on both sides thats sustainable that would 100% prevent further attacks by terrorists while also avoiding unnecessary innocent deaths on both sides.

I mean, I could solve it fairly if I was omnipotent (hint: it doesn't involve "2 states"), but there's no plan anybody can come up with right now that will lead to such an organic, peaceful resolution, not the way things are currently, because there are 2 sides with diametrically opposite, intractable end goals. There's absolutely no way to make such opponents completely happy.

A lot of hard pills to swallow for the Middle East. There's no other way to peace.

Interestingly, it's a lot like the political situation in the US, and really the whole world. People are not interested in making things work these days. They're only interested in getting away with their own.

And now I'm off to read the responses, both insightful and not so insightful.

hockeybub89 posted...

What the fuck is with you people and implying the two options are: A) Do nothing and apologize to Hamas, or B) Blow up 10 times the innocent people and continue to do so until every terrorist or Palestinian is dead, whichever comes first.

And if someone doesn't pick B, you call them a terrorist that wants Islam to take over the world. Like what?

This is like when people say "Abolish the death penalty" and someone goes "Oh so you think serial killers shouldn't go to prison? We should tell them they are just different and we should help them find more vicitms to kill? Why are you a serial killer fan that hates innocent people?"

Hamas are terrorists AND the Israeli government is run by genocidal fascists. Fucking deal with it.

Because every time someone posts this crap their "solution" to the conflict always includes policies they know full well will result in giving Hamas more weapons. Every Fucking Time. You're not fooling anyone with this shit.

A race around the world

Let's not forget the scary but nonetheless true fact that there are a lot of actors in geopolitics that don't particularly care to see peace in the Middle East. Call it conspiracy or what you will but a lot of entities thrive under and look for chaos and war is good for business. So what's new.

willythemailboy posted...

Because every time someone posts this crap their "solution" to the conflict always includes policies they know full well will result in giving Hamas more weapons. Every Fucking Time. You're not fooling anyone with this shit.

Xfd

willythemailboy posted...

Because every time someone posts this crap their "solution" to the conflict always includes policies they know full well will result in giving Hamas more weapons. Every Fucking Time. You're not fooling anyone with this shit.

Firstly, we are not politcal or military experts, it is not really our job to come up with a proper solution.

Though there have ben some suggestions , but it seems the IDF shills are keen on using the legendary hamas as a convenient excuse to deny them once again.

In fact it seems that Hamas is used as an excuse to permit Israel to do whatever they want in this conflict even if it goes against all morals and human decency.

The World Leaders and Military Commanders around the world I am sure are more knowledgable, but of course as we all know, most of them have their head up Israels ass so they wont be willing to help Palestine by seeking and implementing a proper solution.

Don't worry, You're not fooling anyone with your shilling either

The best solution I have, is a 2 state solution with a 3rd party acting as an intermediary to assist in building trust relations between Israel and Palestine and preventing or squashing any clashes between the two, and it would have to be a neutral party, not one with cater towards either Israel or Palestine.

I am sure the world leaders can come up with something better though, considering it is their area of expertise.

I will re-iterate of course Hamas must be dealt with, but it is quite obvious, Israel is doing it in a way that does not negate casualties regardless of whether or not you think it does and /or that they have the right to inflict as much retribution as they want as punishment.

If the results of this conflict ends with over 100k + Palestinians Dead and 200k+ Wounded (Possibly Permanent life damage), That would be considered a massacre. and they will not have solved anythingn, all they will have done is plant the seeds of hatred for future generations.

Than of course the cycle will repeat itself in the future.
FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

What we are arguing over is who has to be the one to finally turn the other cheek and stop the cycle, and I think its unrealistic for the Israelis to do that when Hamas is kidnapping babies from their homes. I do put the blame squarely on Hamas for one reason and one reason only.

than you are being willfully ignorant because it has been explained to you over and over ad nauseum.
Israel has been mistreating Palestinians long before Hamas Existed so therefore the responsibility lies with them to treat Palestinians like proper human beings with basic human rights instead of keeping them in an open air prison and stealing their resources so they can sell it back to them at extortionist prices.

You are once again excusing israel and saying because hamas did this, Israel doesnt have to play by the rules and they can go full apocalypse on palestines ass... hell fucking no.... that's just filling blood lust and having crime done to you does not give you the right to do crime on others.

Hamas does not equal Palestinians and Israel needs to stop treating them as such because all tehy are doing is manifesting the lie into the truth. I dont think its unrealstic to ask Israel to stop treating them like animals.

If they put down their guns and stop fighting, the conflict is over. Even if Israel is as bad as you say it is (its not) its too small of a country to risk further damage to its reputation by having MLK or Ghandi like protests with accusations of Apartheid while calling itself a democracy. They arent stupid.

except we both know that simply is not true... the conflict is not over because Israel will continue treating the people of palestinians like animals... the current fascist government in charge of Israel cares about nothing but their own selfishness and greed.

no one is asking israel to put their weapons down, they are just asking them to stop shooting children in the face with them. Hamas must be defeated, we dont need 100k or more dead palestinians in order to do that. As we both know that will just restart the cycle by planting seeds of hate for future generations.

If Israel puts down its guns, and Hamas doesnt, were still talking about dead Israeli civilians and rocket attacks from Gaza.

Thats the problem.

So thankfully no one is asking them to do that, we are just asking them to have a shred of fucking human decency and try not to slaughter tens of thousands of innocent civilians, put them in prison camps, and treat them like vermin year after year.

I already stated that Hamas must be defeated, but not with a massacre.

Zwijn posted...

Im no geopolitical expert but from what I understand is that at heart its a religious issue over a holy land and I dont think there is a solution for that unless both parties have some sort of enlightenment, and at that point we are no longer talking about current Israel or Palestine in the first place. Correct me if Im wrong about my first point please.

If the Holy land you are talking about is Jerusalem... I don't think it's been decided for either side.

Right now at this point is just about Israel kicking Palestinians out of their homes in Gaza and west bank iirc. Israeli government wanted to take their land in general.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Yes, poor impoverished peoples tend to have more children.

Genocide isn't simply systematic mass murder of a people.

The literal definition of Genocide:
An internationally recognized crime where acts are taken to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.

These acts occur in five categories.

1. Killing Members of the group
2. Causing serious bodily harm to a group
3. Deliberately creating conditions of life designed to bring about the groups destruction.
4. Imposing measures to prevent births in the group.
5. Forcing the transfer of children from one group to another.

So which one is it? Israel isnt killing enough Palestinians per your complaint with my last post so it cant be 1 and 2. Now up until two weeks ago the conditions in Gaza in no way created a situation that would have brought about the groups destruction. Weve already mentioned that the birthrate is going up not down. And Hamas is the one kidnapping kids.

So I am trying to figure out where the distinction existed prior to October 7th. Whats going on in Gaza obviously needs to stop, but you are getting nowhere with me by comparing Israelis to Nazis and this accusation of genocide. None of the five conditions remotely apply.

And for the record - do you notice I am not dismissing the accusation of apartheid. But for decades, Palestinian terrorists have targeted Israeli citizens during their struggle for a national home. Israeli has been on the receiving end of an attempted genocide from the moment is was created. And you still have millions calling for its destruction.

So the US and the rest of the west stand with Israels right to defend itself against its enemies. But all of the sudden, now that Hamas is no longer using suicide bombers and instead if firing rockets into cities from densely populated areas and launched an all out invasion killing over a thousand people and kidnapping hundreds more, and while none of you have a clue what Israel should do, you have the gall to call what they are doing Genocide, based purely on the numbers being given to you by Hamas.

I have no problem with calling for a humanitarian pause. I certainly feel for the Palestinians whose houses have been destroyed. And once Hamas is dismantled, I would demand an immediate end to the siege, and an immediate restart of peace negotiations. Hell, I am even counting down to November 2026 so that the Israelis can send some of these assholes out office.

But cool it with the demonization. Its not Genocide. There are war crimes happening, and if the ICJ wants to indict some of Israels leaders, I would support that too. But the expectation that this shit should end without ending the terror threat from Gaza is beyond ridiculous.

ZaruenKosai posted...

Firstly, we are not politcal or military experts, it is not really our job to come up with a proper solution.

You just think you're better at it than the experts because you don't like the solutions the experts come up with.

Though there have ben some suggestions

As pointed out, every suggestion you come up with is intended to result in arming Hamas. Sure, you say Hamas "needs to be dealt with" but you're intentionally setting up a situation where they're replaced with the same thing under a different name.

ZaruenKosai posted...

The best solution I have, is a 2 state solution with a 3rd party acting as an intermediary to assist in building trust relations between Israel and Palestine and preventing or squashing any clashes between the two, and it would have to be a neutral party, not one with cater towards either Israel or Palestine.

I am sure the world leaders can come up with something better though, considering it is their area of expertise.

Your best solution is something you know one side will never accept? Or are you so ignorant that you think they will accept it if rammed down their throats hard enough?

Thankfully the experts know better.

If the results of this conflict ends with over 100k + Palestinians Dead and 200k+ Wounded

The preceding 80 years of Palestinian conflicts haven't had half that many casualties, and that includes conflicts Israel wasn't even involved in. You're just highlighting how woefully unqualified you are to have an opinion on this topic.

ZaruenKosai posted...

I will re-iterate of course Hamas must be dealt with

You keep saying this but then rule out taking any action to actually do it. I can't possibly imagine why you'd be against any action taken against terrorists.

willythemailboy posted...

You keep saying this but then rule out taking any action to actually do it. I can't possibly imagine why you'd be against any action taken against terrorists.

I never said any such thing, stop putting words in my mouth.

Two states based on 1967 borders, or just merge it into one country and force them to live with each other where they're all equal citizens.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

comparing Israelis to Nazis

Nazis aren't the only people who have ever committed genocide. You mentioned them, I never once did.
FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Deliberately creating conditions of life designed to bring about the groups destruction.

Worlds largest open air prison are conditions id call brought about to bring destruction to Palestinians especially when Israel can just cut power and water to them whenever they please

Taking actions like that are far more insidious than a military campaign with civilian casualties (that are higher than necessary due to attacking civilian targets over the years, but I will condemn any nation for this. the US is guilty of this with their drone strikes of fucking weddings ffs)

willythemailboy posted...

Your best solution is something you know one side will never accept? Or are you so ignorant that you think they will accept it if rammed down their throats hard enough?

Both sides only need to accept it if you want them to work together peacefully. If you give the two states their own distinct borders that aren't shared governance it frames the conflict in a manner that can eventually lead to peace and the international community knows how to deal with making it no different from any other territorial dispute.

Honestly neither side particularly needs to accept it either, you can ram it down both their throats.

The only reason this conflict is so complicated is because neither Palestine nor Israel have borders and are forced to exist in the same territory.

CyrusV posted...

Two states based on 1967 borders, or just merge it into one country and force them to live with each other where they're all equal citizens.

Palestinians will never accept two states, and I don't think anyone wants to see a 12 million person version of Thunderdome.

willythemailboy posted...

No, you're too cowardly to say it outright. But that fact remains you are opposed to any action Israel can take to actually do anything against Hamas

Obviously, given every action Israel has taken is a war crime.

videospirit posted...

Both sides only need to accept it if you want them to work together peacefully. If you give the two states their own distinct borders that aren't shared governance it frames the conflict in a manner that can eventually lead to peace and the international community knows how to deal with making it no different from any other territorial dispute.

Honestly neither side particularly needs to accept it either, you can ram it down both their throats.

The only reason this conflict is so complicated is because neither Palestine nor Israel have borders and are forced to exist in the same territory.

Israel is about 20% Palestinian and they exist peacefully enough in the same territory. Some even serve in the IDF.

The terror threat isn't coming from the Palestinians living in Israel. The threat is coming from the Palestinian population that never accepted Israel's right to exist.

willythemailboy posted...

Israel is about 20% Palestinian and they exist peacefully enough in the same territory. Some even serve in the IDF.

The terror threat isn't coming from the Palestinians living in Israel. The threat is coming from the Palestinian population that never accepted Israel's right to exist.

Yeah, which is why Israel should not be in charge of people who hate them and think they should not exist. The Palestinians who refuse to be part of Israel need to be given their own state, and Israel is not qualified to determine what their borders will be unilaterally. The Palestinians also refuse to accept any kind of deal.

So the only solution is to have the international community force arbitration on them and have the international community decide what the borders are unilaterally.

hockeybub89 posted...

I'd draw the line at the first innocent death tbh

The people you are talking to don't consider any Palestinian, whether woman or child, as "innocent" though. They really don't see them as actual human beings at all tbh.

They think because they "allow" Hamas to live amongst them and even sometimes support them because they are the only ones providing food, water and shelter as Israel tries to starve them all to death that it makes them fair game to bomb and murder. They neatly wrap all those deaths into "war causalities" because it is simply easier for them to digest.

There is no reason for discussion with these people. They wallow in the evil of it all.

willythemailboy posted...

and I don't think anyone wants to see a 12 million person version of Thunderdome.

Most of them would be willing to coexist. There are Palestinians living in Israel now.

FlyEaglesFly posts the same "if Hamas put their weapons down" canard in every single topic and in every single topic it's refuted, yet he just posts it again in the next topic. He never ever acknowledges apartheid or the choice Israel has made to be an enforced ethnostate rather than a multicultural democracy until called out. And even then, he never does it without in the same sentence deflecting to something emotionally upsetting thing to distract us from that baseline, independent reality. Certain actions are necessary to maintain an ethnostate as a minority population in an area. Those actions are the exact actions that provoke both peaceful and violent resistance and stoke hatred the descends into mutual genocidal intent.

Apartheid, settlement, and blockades must end and democracy must begin for anything to change. If those conditions do not change, you are at best hoping an oppressed people will just take it indefinitely for the benefit of Israeli comfort. Or hoping those people just stop existing in that area at some point... for whatever reason. Everything Israel has done is driven by and consistent with one of those two irrational hopes.

videospirit posted...

The Palestinians who refuse to be part of Israel need to be given their own state, and Israel is not qualified to determine what their borders will be unilaterally.

It's not that there are Palestinians who refuse to be part of Israel, it's that there are a majority of Palestinians (in Gaza, anyway) who refuse to accept that anyone be allowed to be "part of Israel". They have made it quite clear - the general populace, not Hamas - that the only acceptable borders are "all of it" and that it is to be an officially Islamic state.

videospirit posted...

So the only solution is to have the international community force arbitration on them and have the international community decide what the borders are unilaterally.

Nothing would change in that "solution" other than who is enforcing the border. The terror attacks would remain because now the entire international community would be part of "the Zionist conspiracy".

CyrusV posted...

Most of them would be willing to coexist. There are Palestinians living in Israel now.

You'd have (roughly) three million people who want six million either dead or gone, six million who would object to that, and three million who would be willing to get along with everyone if people would just stop shooting at each other. While not quite as bad as the 12 million person Thunderdome I called it, that's not a recipe for peaceful coexistence.

You sure seem to know a lot about the thoughts of Palestinians

Hmm

Wonder how you became such a talented mind-reader

AnsestralRecall posted...

You sure seem to know a lot about the thoughts of Palestinians

Hmm

Wonder how you became such a talented mind-reader

He's got a whole folder of excuses not to treat Palestinians as human beings.

Before October 7th, Israel Security forces killed 248 Palestinians, including 40 children, just this year alone.

Some of Israels Past War Crimes Include

2009 - Operation Cast Lead
2012 - Operation Pillar of Defense
2014 - Operation Protective Edge

I know you're gonna say, Operation Cast Lead was because of Hamas firing rockets into Israel

That was because Israel broke the ceasfire agreement they had on November 4th 2008 while the entire world was in euphoria about United States Electing the worlds first black president.

Israel used the opportunity to break the ceasefire agreement and raid gaza and killed palestinians, by the Israelis Foreign Ministers own words at the time.

"The strategy of breaking the ceasefire was to preempt Hamas into an attack, which they could use as a pretext for a much larger invasion.

Baffling isn't it.

Back to 1967, when Israel started a premeptive attack against egypt, syria and jordan and took more land from palestine further enclosing palestinians into the gaza strip.

they illegally occupied the gaza strip and the west bank in what has been formally condemned ever since 1967 as an illegal occupation in violation of international law unilaterally condemned by the world court, the UN, Geneva Conventions and the Red Cross. Worldwide consensus, the majority of countries of the world all call on israel to return to its pre-june 1967 borders.

Back to 1948

In 1948 Zionists extirpated about a million Palestinians from their homes and forced them to relocate to the Gaza Strip, tody, about 70% of all Gazans are considered Refugees from the 1948 explusion.

yes this sparked a conflict., when you have colonial powers coming into a territory that does not belogn to them and forcibly removing people from their land. it tends to get complicated.

invoking the bible as an excuse to ethnically cleanse a population from its territory is a baby brained middle school argument

biblical rights have absolutely no status on the world of today. no one can say that 2000 years ago this is my story of what happened, therefore, I get to take the land from these people.

willythemailboy posted...

It's not that there are Palestinians who refuse to be part of Israel, it's that there are a majority of Palestinians (in Gaza, anyway) who refuse to accept that anyone be allowed to be "part of Israel". They have made it quite clear - the general populace, not Hamas - that the only acceptable borders are "all of it" and that it is to be an officially Islamic state.

A distinction without a difference. What does it matter what Chile thinks about who is allowed to be part of America? What does it matter what Palestinians think about who is allowed to be part of Israel? The only thing that matters to this conflict is that those Palestinians themselves are not willing to be part of Israel. What they feel about other people is irrelevant to finding a solution beyond "A joint government with both of them being in charge of holy sites is impossible"

Nothing would change in that "solution" other than who is enforcing the border. The terror attacks would remain because now the entire international community would be part of "the Zionist conspiracy".

Except it would be a completely different kind of conflict. If, once they've been given a state of their own, they want to go to war with Israel, Israel would be completely justified in returning fire. The current conflict is a resistance movement against an apartheid state. The end goal desired by that resistance movement is hard to empathize with, but a resistance movement is completely justified.

it's never going to be solved.

Israel can go door to door and eliminate "all" of Hamas but the reality is that the ideology can't be killed. There are simply too many opposing factions claiming the same territory as their own. That's why Russia claims to own Ukraine and other former soviet countries even though none of the rest of the world recognizes that. the Israel/Palestine conflict is just concentrated in a much smaller area.

AnsestralRecall posted...

You sure seem to know a lot about the thoughts of Palestinians

Hmm

Wonder how you became such a talented mind-reader

I bothered reading the polling data that various organizations have collected over the years. Perhaps if you read more and stanned for terrorists less you'd come to the same conclusions.

willythemailboy posted...

I bothered reading the polling data that various organizations have collected over the years. Perhaps if you read more and stanned for terrorists less you'd come to the same conclusions.

Well, at least you came clean with your view that all Palestinians are terrorists. You're so evil man.