Current Events > IDF declares 'state of readiness for war' amid Hamas infiltrations, rockets.

(+) Yeah! (+)

UnholyMudcrab posted...

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how this could have happened in the first place. It was such a monumental intelligence failure on Israel's part.

I mean, if there was a betting line available for "Israel knew about it and ignored it on purpose to justify their current actions" I'd probably take it

KTG2 posted...

You should delete this and apologize for posting something so dumb.

Re: intelligence failures
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/israels-shocking-intelligence-failure

BurmesePenguin posted...

You should delete this and apologize for posting something so dumb.

You're right, everybody should trust brutal apartheid regimes regularly found doing war crimes implicitly, that is the kind of thing an intelligent person would do

What you said is no different than saying that the American government was behind 9/11.

KTG2 posted...

I mean, if there was a betting line available for "Israel knew about it and ignored it on purpose to justify their current actions" I'd probably take it

The problem with this line of thinking is that you are assuming this event is going to bolster support for Netanyahu when its actually going to be the last straw for him.

His platform is literally "only i can keep us safe" and the most devastating attack in like 50 years happens on his watch.

I'm pretty sure that other Israel pms have lost their office because of failing to prevent attacks.

KTG2 posted...

You're right, everybody should trust brutal apartheid regimes regularly found doing war crimes implicitly, that is the kind of thing an intelligent person would do

Dude, youre taking a simplistic good guy vs bad guy approach to the most complex geopolitical conflict on the planet, on a day where hundreds were lost on both sides after a coordinated effort by terrorists to murder as many civilians as possible, and you are doing it on Gamefaqs.

How fucking intelligent is that?

Shadow_Don posted...

The problem with this line of thinking is that you are assuming this event is going to bolster support for Netanyahu when its actually going to be the last straw for him.

His platform is literally "only i can keep us safe" and the most devastating attack in like 50 years happens on his watch.

I'm pretty sure that other Israel pms have lost their office because of failing to prevent attacks.

Trump and Bush ran on that, Bush won a 2nd term after 9/11, and Trump botched the covid response worse than anyone could have imagined. He's still the front runner for his parry by 50 points.

The point is, fascists don't lose support from fascist supporters easily.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Dude, youre taking a simplistic good guy vs bad guy approach to the most complex geopolitical conflict on the planet, on a day where hundreds were lost on both sides after a coordinated effort by terrorists to murder as many civilians as possible, and you are doing it on Gamefaqs.

How fucking intelligent is that?

Pretty damn smart considering Israel is a brutal apartheid state living on stolen land

There are two bad guys here, actually, and Israel is significantly worse

If you wanna buy hook line and sinker into Pro Israel US propaganda though be my guest

KTG2 posted...

Pretty damn smart considering Israel is a brutal apartheid state living on stolen land

There are two bad guys here, actually, and Israel is significantly worse

You know, those Israelis who died today were more than likely born there. The state is over 75 years old. Its as home to them as the United States is to me. And last I checked five centuries ago, someone stole this land from someone else. And those people have never given up their claim to that land either.

And fifteen hundred years ago, there were other people living in Palestine, before Muslims conquered the Middle East.

Im just wondering if theres a limit to when we can call land stolen?

Death toll is 300 at the moment. Said to most likely double.

All land is stolen.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

All land is stolen.

whataboutism

I figured they were always in a state of readiness for war

Le_seuI__dieu__ posted...

whataboutism

not really, since that land in particular has been in conflict for thousands of years

also it probably all has been stolen at least at one point

I got it.

We get both sides together and explain that since both of them claim to be the true owner of the holy sites weve decided to cut them in half and give half of each site to them both.

The true owner will be the one that kills everyone and is left alive to claim the prize.

Saudis were close to signing some peace thing with Israel. I do find the timing of this hamas attack to be suspicious.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/what-saudi-israeli-deal-could-mean-palestinians

UnholyMudcrab posted...

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how this could have happened in the first place. It was such a monumental intelligence failure on Israel's part.

to be fair their primary foe is usually children with rocks or people praying at a mosque, this probably took them by surprise

BurmesePenguin posted...

I know Trump shoved his hand in there with the embassy moving and stuff, but I really don't think you can blame him for Israeli-Palestine conflicts.

You can't blame him for setting the dominoes up. But he did manage to push a few over with the embassy and other comments.

And, to mix metaphors, it doesn't take a big match to light a fuse that's been laying there this long.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401

Seems fashy.

ah yes, notoriously easy to "leave" gaza

KTG2 posted...

Pretty damn smart considering Israel is a brutal apartheid state living on stolen land

They're living on land that was stolen from them first...
What kind of argument is this?

Feel like the UN did a poor job in picking where Israel would be

Ive always believed the Palestinians have had a rough time but I dont think people realise the scale of this recent attack on Israel by Hamas.

250 Israelis dead. Over 1,500 injured. plus the kidnapped civilians.

This isnt just a case of a few bottle rockets let off by Hamas being shot down. This is much much bigger than that.

Israel seem to always make the most of there sorts of situations and want to send a powerful message. Not just to Hamas and their supporters but to the Israelis back home as well.

So while they are absolutely justified in responding I cant imagine itll be the usual couple of days of boots on the grounds before pulling out. This response is going to be fucking frightening imo and be a game changer.

The people I feel sorry for on both sides are the innocents. Palestine has an incredibly bottom heavy age demographic with over 40% of the population under the age of 14. These are the guys that are going to suffer and they arent responsible for the attacks nor voting in Hamas.

C_Pain posted...

Feel like the UN did a poor job in picking where Israel would be

It wasnt the UN was it?

Edit: Yes it was. I thought the UN came into being after that but I was wrong.

Is Israel about to genocide every not-Israelite in the Gaza strip?

KTG2 posted...

I mean, if there was a betting line available for "Israel knew about it and ignored it on purpose to justify their current actions" I'd probably take it

Super improbable. It might make for good fiction, but not every country is run by a Bush who ignores security briefings that there are imminent terrorist attacks on the country incoming.

And then there's the gross difference between ignoring it and suggesting they did it deliberately to justify the reprisal we're seeing in the news.

You really think Israel was hankering to bomb civilians that badly?

ClayGuida posted...

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401

Seems fashy.

Right? As of he considers all of Gaza a place Hamas could be hiding in, and it justifies him paving the whole thing.

Very Bibi move.

SHRlKE posted...

250 Israelis dead. Over 1,500 injured. plus the kidnapped civilians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dhTmHYZtIM&ab_channel=BBCNews

Didn't take long for Israel to kill 198 people.

DnDer posted...

Right? As of he considers all of Gaza a place Hamas could be hiding in, and it justifies him paving the whole thing.

Very Bibi move.

Well, when your enemy places rocket launchers inside kindergarten classrooms, its really hard to determine where they arent.

Not saying that he should level the place, but just adding a little context.

SHRlKE posted...

These are the guys that are going to suffer and they arent responsible for the attacks nor voting in Hamas.

They will be in a dozen years, if they survive.

Israel's response here is going to determine just how big the next generation of hamas terrorists ends up being.

Bibi could be drawing up the next recruitment poster Sorenson in his response in the coming days and weeks.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, when your enemy places rocket launchers inside kindergarten classrooms, its really hard to determine where they arent.

Not saying that he should level the place, but just adding a little context.

Almost as if you shouldn't lob missiles then indiscriminately.

If the IDF views themselves as true badasses who don't just accost children playing soccer and murder members of the press, they should simply walk into Gaza and deal with Hamas, Raid style, floor by floor.

I suspect Hamas will be wiped out after this.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Well, when your enemy places rocket launchers inside kindergarten classrooms, its really hard to determine where they arent.

Not saying that he should level the place, but just adding a little context.

The IDF are always touted as these elite tactical forces. Why not just send teams in to clear these buildings? Like The Raid. But with krav maga.

Put their skills on display in removing terrorists who would hide behind civilian targets.

Sure, it might be a 24/7 job of whack a mole, I acknowledge that, but that effort would be a lot more acceptable scale of response than a barrage of missiles at a school.

ClayGuida posted...

Almost as if you shouldn't lob missiles then indiscriminately.

If the IDF views themselves as true badasses who don't just accost children playing soccer and murder members of the press, they should simply walk into Gaza and deal with Hamas, Raid style, floor by floor.

Ha! Great minds, I guess.

But, yeah. If the IDF can pinpoint (in the example of the AP building) the exact floor that the terrorists and the broadcast equipment are on, they can send a pinpoint team to take care of them.

Instead of attacking the free press as a whole.

Or a kindergarten.

Haha

No way that happened organically

ClayGuida posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dhTmHYZtIM&ab_channel=BBCNews

Didn't take long for Israel to kill 198 people.

Whats your point exactly? Or are you just a fan of quoting random stats?

DnDer posted...

They will be in a dozen years, if they survive.

Israel's response here is going to determine just how big the next generation of hamas terrorists ends up being.

Bibi could be drawing up the next recruitment poster Sorenson in his response in the coming days and weeks.

Yeah definitely. Its a shame. I dont think anyone can deny Israel has the right to protect its boarders and respond to attacks but it comes with long term consequence.

Any innocent being killed is horrible but I genuinely don't know what Israel is supposed to do in this situation. There isn't a country on Earth that would stand for what happened today. People going through their country, massacring, desecrating, executing their people, innocents, families.....I have no idea what anybody can do in that situation. I mean jeez the fact they are even warning people to evacuate says a lot. I don't think there is going to be a lot of western sympathy. Really every side should be furious at Hamas because people are going to be hurt because of what happened today and things are going to be ugly on all sides.

ClayGuida posted...

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401

Seems fashy.

Leave how? They're literally trapped and aren't allowed to leave.

This is going to be a full blown genocide.

I feel bad for all the innocent Palestinian civilians who are going to suffer as a result of Hamas and any Israeli citizens who are against the actions of their government who have been hurt and will continue to be hurt as a result of this.

DnDer posted...

The IDF are always touted as these elite tactical forces. Why not just send teams in to clear these buildings? Like The Raid. But with krav maga.

Put their skills on display in removing terrorists who would hide behind civilian targets.

Sure, it might be a 24/7 job of whack a mole, I acknowledge that, but that effort would be a lot more acceptable scale of response than a barrage of missiles at a school.

check the wiki for the 2nd battle of fallujah

that's why they don't want to clear building by building

It literally says in the tweet you linked that it was a mistranslation and they said leave those specific areas.

Imagine how much more effective Israel would be at eliminating Hamas if they did not warn to try to minimize civilian casualties? Its a good thing they do but its just so frustrating seeing people compare israel with hamas despite the difference between the two. In the context of the world they may both be bad guys sure but one is much more bad than the other . Could you imagine Hamas warning Israeli citizens? No because they WANT to attack civilians. It is their primary goal. And that is not the case for Israel

SHRlKE posted...

Whats your point exactly? Or are you just a fan of quoting random stats?

You're pointing out how insane this attack is, yet IDF was able to respond immediately by killing roughly the same through strikes.

The point is, yes tons of people have died, on both sides, and that's a fucking shame, but it doesn't make me feel for one group over another. They're both caught in the middle of a conflict orchestrated by two fascist and terrorist regimes. I'll always have sympathy for those caught in the middle of a war. Especially one as senseless as this. I feel like if Israel just fucked off and stopped treating Palestinians as they were animals, Hamas wouldn't exist or have any true power even if they did exist.

There's a reason that families affected by US drone strikes grow up to hate America and fight against us. This is no different.

Shadow_Don posted...

Leave how? They're literally trapped and aren't allowed to leave.

This is going to be a full blown genocide.

There is a note on the tweet now.

SHRlKE posted...

There is a note on the tweet now.

Ah ok I missed that.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Any innocent being killed is horrible but I genuinely don't know what Israel is supposed to do in this situation. There isn't a country on Earth that would stand for what happened today. People going through their country, massacring, desecrating, executing their people, innocents, families.....I have no idea what anybody can do in that situation. I mean jeez the fact they are even warning people to evacuate says a lot. I don't think there is going to be a lot of western sympathy. Really every side should be furious at Hamas because people are going to be hurt because of what happened today and things are going to be ugly on all sides.

The morally right thing to do would be to meet with the enemy and hear their demands. Avoid more casualties from both sides, cause these deaths so far will be a drop in a bucket if this continues.

But we know Natenyahu probably wanted this to happen so he can go terminator mode. At the same time Hamas probably doesnt care about sacrificing themselves just to stick it to Israel.

JuanCarlos1 posted...

The morally right thing to do would be to meet with the enemy and hear their demands. Avoid more casualties from both sides, cause these deaths so far will be a drop in a bucket if this continues.

But we know Natenyahu probably wanted this to happen so he can go terminator mode. At the same time Hamas probably doesnt care aboit sacrificing themselves just to stick it to Israel.

There is no demands to hear......Hamas wants all the Jews dead. There is no reasoning. There is no possible peace with them. What terms could possibly be worked out and would let Israel know they won't be attacked like this again?

HHH_is_the_game posted...

There is no demands to hear......Hamas wants all the Jews dead. There is no reasoning. There is no possible peace with them. What terms could possibly be worked out and would let Israel know they won't be attacked like this again?

That's what they said? So they've had talks? Was it today?