Current Events > IDF declares 'state of readiness for war' amid Hamas infiltrations, rockets.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hamas and Israel are both aggressors. None of the shit either of them do is justifiable retaliation

COVxy posted...

Remove the anti-air defense, and the casualties on the Israel side would be orders of magnitude more than the Palestinian side.

No they wouldn't.

The "rockets" fired by Hamas are in no way comparable to the weapons that the IDF use.

AnsestralRecall posted...

It might have been a surface level justification, but it is nothing but a veneer used to hide the absurd political power that religious organizations like the Catholic Church wielded.

Yes, exactly!

a-c-a-b posted...

No they wouldn't.

The "rockets" fired by Hamas are in no way comparable to the weapons that the IDF use.

*dismissive wanking motion*

COVxy posted...

It only seems disproportionate because Israel has advanced defenses, and Hamas' strategy of firing missles out of the backyard of schools and hospitals.

Remove the anti-air defense, and the casualties on the Israel side would be orders of magnitude more than the Palestinian side.

Lmao, bruh. Israel is a modern military power with the full backing of the US military industrial complex. You literally cant "well it'd be worse if it weren't for this specific thing that is core to Israel's dominance over the Palestinians"

Obligatory its Trumps fault post

The primary issue here is that it has become a line in the sand issue for leftist politics. You are not leftist if you are not pro-palestine. So people twist themselves into pretzels trying to justify and minimize a clearly malicious terrorist organization.

AnsestralRecall posted...

No, this is not a religious problem. It a native population vs western colonizers problem.

Israel are western colonizers because of their religion. If a book didn't tell Israel that they have a god given right to a region this conflict could be solved extremely easily.

hockeybub89 posted...

Israel sucks. We really need to not forget that. They don't get to play innocent victim, regardless of Hamas.

That's an interesting reaction to their citizens being murdered by terrorists

Its topics like this that brought down 261.

Always boils down to yes they are, no they arent levels of rhetoric and grown men acting like kindergartners.

Im out.

COVxy posted...

The primary issue here is that it has become a line in the sand issue for leftist politics. You are not leftist if you are not pro-palestine. So people twist themselves into pretzels trying to justify and minimize a clearly malicious terrorist organization.

And multiple people have said, "No, Israel and terrorism are both bad" and you went "What do you expect Israel to do when they're constantly attacked? Not defend themselves? Goddamn leftists defending terrorism!""

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Israel are western colonizers because of their religion. If a book didn't tell Israel that they have a god given right to a region this conflict could be solved extremely easily.

Yep.

hockeybub89 posted...

And multiple people have said, "No, Israel and terrorism are both bad" and you went "What do you expect Israel to do when they're constantly attacked? Not defend themselves? Goddamn leftists defending terrorism!""

Tell me how Israel are aggressors without using history from 100 years ago or contextless casualty counts.

As long as I've been alive, Hamas has been attacking Israel, largely unsuccessfully, and Israel has attempted to remove the local threat, usually successfully. That's the dynamic.

Now, if we want to go back to pre-post WWII stuff, or from thousands of years ago, we can form a narrative that makes us understand why Hamas exists. But that doesn't make Israel the aggressor, because Hamas is literally the one striking. The moment you say "well, obviously Israel contributed to the creation of Hamas and therefore are the OG aggressors", you have started to justify.

AnsestralRecall posted...

The whole world bends ass over for Israel wtf are you on about

Except you know....the constant terrorist attacks on them and the antisemites

HHH_is_the_game posted...

That's an interesting reaction to their citizens being murdered by terrorists

So a country is blameless if there's too extreme of a reaction to their own crimes? Terrorism is bad and the government that is in response to can also be bad.

In this particular insrance Gaza is claiming they have the roght to defend themselves against increased violence from the illegal Israeli settlements.

And they probably have a pretty good argument there. And it would be Netanyahus direct fault.

COVxy posted...

Tell me how Israel are aggressors without using history from 100 years ago or contextless casualty counts.

As long as I've been alive, Hamas has been attacking Israel, largely unsuccessfully, and Israel has attempted to remove the local threat, usually successfully. That's the dynamic.

Now, if we want to go back to pre-post WWII stuff, or from thousands of years ago, we can form a narrative that makes us understand why Hamas exists. But that doesn't make Israel the aggressor, because Hamas is literally the one striking. The moment you say "well, obviously Israel contributed to the creation of Hamas and therefore are the OG aggressors", you have started to justify.

Israel has been a human rights black hole for long time. Let me guess, that's completely the fault of the aggressors against them?

I figured you of all people could understand the difference between justification and explanation. Do profilers "justify" the actions of serial killers?

I don't know if defending government-sponsored murder with "What else are they supposed to do?" is a path we want to go down. Would you defend America if some people radicalized against their abuses?

Israel has attempted to remove the local threat,

Surely you realise how gross of an oversimplification this is?

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Except you know....the constant terrorist attacks on them and the antisemites

Ok, you are smart and I acknowledge your superior intellect for you act of picking me apart with a simple quip

AnsestralRecall posted...

Lmao, bruh. Israel is a modern military power with the full backing of the US military industrial complex. You literally cant "well it'd be worse if it weren't for this specific thing that is core to Israel's dominance over the Palestinians"

I feel like people downplay that if Hamas had the same power all the Israelis would be DEAD. Their charter literally wants the extermination of the Jewish people. Like seriously this is who you are defending?

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

You know, its statements like this that show us why the Israelis are convinced the whole world wants them dead.

And then we act surprised when they stand up for themselves. This is quite possibly the dumbest statement ever made on Gamefaqs, and imagine just how much competition there is for that to hold up.

Oh sure, lets make a nation where we're surrounded by enemies and little by little displace the locals. Then get surprised when they get shit about it. Religion does not give you a deed to a land. And theres also a point you cant play the victim after so much instigation.

This was going to happen the moment Israel was created.

hockeybub89 posted...

Israel has been a human rights black hole for long time. Let me guess, that's completely the fault of the aggressors against them.

I figured you of all people could understand the difference between justification and explanation. Do profilers "justify" the actions of serial killers?

I largely agree that Israel has a human right's violation issue. Said so in my first post.

No, but if you start to say that Jeffery Dahmer actually was just responding to a culture that was largely moving past him, you might miss the fact that he was a fucking cannibal.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I feel like people downplay that if Hamas had the same power all the Israelis would be DEAD. Their charter literally wants the extermination of the Jewish people. Like seriously this is who you are defending?

Saying Israel are shitty is not a defence of Hamas.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Hamas gonna Hama.
They are not the "good guys" here, and never were.

No, but they would have a way harder time recruiting if Israel wasn't involved in committing a genocide against the Palestinians.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Saying Israel are shitty is not a defence of Hamas.

It's a weird thing to say though in this context

ScazarMeltex posted...

No, but they would have a way harder time recruiting if Israel wasn't involved in committing a genocide against the Palestinians.

Once again this is a weird thing to say. Especially considering Hamas LITERALLY wants to genocide Jews

HHH_is_the_game posted...

It's a weird thing to say though in this context

No it isn't. Its only weird if you're trying to paint one side as heroes to justify their crimes. Criticising both Israel and Hamas is a perfectly logical and valid postition.

Once again this is a weird thing to say. Especially considering Hamas LITERALLY wants to genocide Jews

How does that relate to the statement? Do you think genocide is a valid response to genocide?

COVxy posted...

I largely agree that Israel has a human right's violation issue. Said so in my first post.

No, but if you start to say that Jeffery Dahmer actually was just responding to a culture that was largely moving past him, you might miss the fact that he was a fucking cannibal.

Good grief.

How about we use a more apt metaphor.

Hamas is standing their ground against violence from illegal Israeli settlements. Violence where they have neither legal or even basic humanitarian protection.

Surely even people like those in Gaza should have the basic human right to be able to defend themselves?

Isn't justifying Israel because Hamas kind of like justifying America in the War on Terror?

IceCreamOnStero posted...

No it isn't. Its only weird if you're trying to paint one side as heroes to justify their crimes. Criticising both Israel and Hamas is a perfectly logical and valid postition.

Yes it is. Criticizing Israel is valid. But they are not equivalent. And people in this thread are trying to make them equivalent.

divot1338 posted...

Hamas is standing their ground against violence from illegal Israeli settlements. Violence where they have neither legal or even basic humanitarian protection.

Dude they are indiscriminately attacking kidnapping and murdering innocent people. The two sides are not equal. Israel literally sends notices to evacuate before they bomb trying to kill terrorists. Hamas tries to kill innocents and only has a low body count because of the defense systems that thank god we gave Israel. Like Israel would be wiped off the map if Hamas had their way. What do you expect Israel to do?

Here's a question. What do you think the US would do if Al Qaeda was attacking them every single day trying to kill their civilians?

ScazarMeltex posted...

No, but they would have a way harder time recruiting if Israel wasn't involved in committing a genocide against the Palestinians.

Oh come on. It's really hard to come up with a definition of "genocide" so loose that it fits Israel's actions (though deplorable). And it's not like they don't know what it is, or that they're bad at killing.

hockeybub89 posted...

Isn't justifying Israel because Hamas kind of like justifying America in the War on Terror?

No, justifying Hamas is like saying well yeah 9/11 was bad but they are just defending themselves after all.

Except its more like if Al Qaeda was trying to commit 9/11 every day and you just shrug your shoulders like well they are just defending themselves, what can you do?

hockeybub89 posted...

Isn't justifying Israel because Hamas kind of like justifying America in the War on Terror?

It's like saying the response to Nazi Germany should've been to eradicate the German population

tankboy posted...

Oh come on. It's really hard to come up with a definition of "genocide" so loose that it fits Israel's actions (though deplorable). And it's not like they don't know what it is, or that they're bad at killing.

This. The ironic thing is HAMAS is the genocidal group. They just aren't very good at it. Like you are defending very VERY evil men. Like literally deplorable people. Israel's actions cannot be compared to what Hamas is doing or trying to do.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

This. The ironic thing is HAMAS is the genocidal group. They just aren't very good at it. Like you are defending very VERY evil men. Like literally deplorable people. Israel's actions cannot be compared to what Hamas is doing or trying to do.

I would defend incarcerated prisoners if the guards were slaughtering them. The definition of whats right isnt dependent on a calculation of sides.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

This. The ironic thing is HAMAS is the genocidal group. They just aren't very good at it. Like you are defending very VERY evil men. Like literally deplorable people. Israel's actions cannot be compared to what Hamas is doing or trying to do.

No one is defending Hamas

divot1338 posted...

I would defend incarcerated prisoners if the guards were slaughtering them. The definition of whats right isnt dependent on a calculation of sides.

Yes, I would too. But that isn't the situation here.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

No one is defending Hamas

Anybody who are saying that Israel and Hamas are equally bad are defending Hamas, because of how deplorable Hamas actually is, even saying they are bad as Israel is bad is ignoring how bad they actually are.

Careful people, we have a mod with a chip on their shoulder watching this topic.

COVxy posted...

I largely agree that Israel has a human right's violation issue. Said so in my first post.

No, but if you start to say that Jeffery Dahmer actually was just responding to a culture that was largely moving past him, you might miss the fact that he was a fucking cannibal.

And if someone sexually and physically abused a future killer, are they off the hook because they don't look as extreme in comparison?

Looking at the entire picture is not justification. That's just cause and effect.

Being angry at Israel isn't wrong. Committing indiscriminate terrorism very much is.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Anybody who are saying that Israel and Hamas are equally bad are defending Hamas, because of how deplorable Hamas actually is, even saying they are bad as Israel is bad is ignoring how bad they actually are.

As scummy as Israel has become, anyone who says that Israel and Hamas are equally bad is a damn fool. Hamas is a terrorist group, plain and simple.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Anybody who are saying that Israel and Hamas are equally bad are defending Hamas, because of how deplorable Hamas actually is, even saying they are bad as Israel is bad is ignoring how bad they actually are.

They are equally bad in many ways though. They are genocidal aggressors who use aggression as an excuse for deplorable crimes. Israel being bad guys doesn't make Hamas good guys and vice versa. You're the one trying to downplay one of them as some sort of defensive freedom fighters when they are anything but.

COVxy posted...

Tell me how Israel are aggressors without using history from 100 years ago or contextless casualty counts.

How many examples do you need?

Camp David, which I mentioned before, only 40 years ago, set forth standards for Palestinian self-governance. Israel... has not respected that.

Israeli forces have, as documented by the UN, Amnesty International, and West Bank sources themselves, deliberately targeted medical workers and first responders in the West Bank and Gaza. 2018's sniping of Rouzan al-Najjar is just one of the most famous examples.

And every bulldozer or settlement that displaces Palestinian families, which is an ongoing, contemporary thing.

Sharon's visit to Al-Aqsa in 2000 that was bait to get protesters that Israel could turn chemical weapons and rubber bullets on was definitely an aggression.

It's these things and a hundred more everyday occurrences that serve as a perpetual existential threat to the Palestinian people.

Israel is aggressing against them by erasing them inch by inch. (On the order of 50,000+ buildings bulldozed straight up punitively or under the guise of "not being up to code.") It's an ongoing, daily thing.

None of that justifies targeting Israeli civilians in reprisal. But it has created the situation and conditions to where at least part of the Palestinian people think this is the only options.

That's your root cause, and it doesn't have to be traced back to even WWII.

Both sides fuck around and find out, then it escalates and start over.
No side are any angels in this conflict

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Yes it is. Criticizing Israel is valid. But they are not equivalent. And people in this thread are trying to make them equivalent.

Dude they are indiscriminately attacking kidnapping and murdering innocent people. The two sides are not equal. Israel literally sends notices to evacuate before they bomb trying to kill terrorists. Hamas tries to kill innocents and only has a low body count because of the defense systems that thank god we gave Israel. Like Israel would be wiped off the map if Hamas had their way. What do you expect Israel to do?

Here's a question. What do you think the US would do if Al Qaeda was attacking them every single day trying to kill their civilians?

Eventually go home because even though we (like Israel) are more technologically powerful its clear that theyre only fighting us because we invaded their homes. Wed be the aggressor in whatever tortured example youre trying to construct.

In the real world, Gaza and Israel are both good and bad people who do both good and bad things. But in this specific instance Netanyahus increased push to create settlements on the charred remnants of their homes is wrong. -edit- Palestine has no option but to respond or they die homeless.

I will say again, while Israel is bad in many ways, calling them "genocidal aggressors" in the context of this topic is kind of absurd. Because if they were truly genocidal aggressors they would send thousands of rockets per day like Hamas does. Except without Israeli defenses they would actually succeed. If you consider them geocidal aggressors then what the heck do you consider Hamas?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Criticism of Zionism and Israel is not antisemitic. We oppose genocidal apartheid states, nothing to do with Israel being a majority Jewish population.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I will say again, while Israel is bad in many ways, calling them "genocidal aggressors" in the context of this topic is kind of absurd. Because if they were truly genocidal aggressors they would send thousands of rockets per day like Hamas does. Except without Israeli defenses they would actually succeed. If you consider them geocidal aggressors then what the heck do you consider Hamas?

In that exact same post I call Hamas genocidal aggressors too.

divot1338 posted...

Eventually go home because even though we (like Israel) are more technologically powerful its clear that theyre only fighting us because we invaded their homes. Wed be the aggressor in whatever tortured example youre trying to construct.

So do you think if Israel backed off and made a peace treaty there would be peace and Hamas would be cool with that?

tankboy posted...

Oh come on. It's really hard to come up with a definition of "genocide" so loose that it fits Israel's actions (though deplorable). And it's not like they don't know what it is, or that they're bad at killing.

Forcibly displacing entire ethnic groups is indeed a form of genocide my dude just ask the fucking Armenians. Let's also not forget that Israel regularly attacks groups like Doctors without borders when they provide medical care during these conflicts, they intentionally kill Palestinian journalists covering their war crimes.