Current Events > Progress not carrying over from Remake to Rebirth is really stupid

(+) Yeah! (+)

Amakusa posted...

You don't need to do that. You simply balance it around assuming they don't have it, and if they do then that's their bonus.

that just means part 2 is too easy for people who unlocked everything, and part 3 will be even easier

Amakusa posted...

You don't need to do that. You simply balance it around assuming they don't have it, and if they do then that's their bonus.

Yeah that would be a great way to do it, if you were an amateur game designer.

transfering progress is not a new concept, please stop clowning yourselves.

thronedfire2 posted...

that just means part 2 is too easy for people who unlocked everything, and part 3 will be even easier

And? Ill speak for min maxer completionists when I say thats not going to bother us. FF has always been piss easy even without grinding anyway.

ProfessorKukui posted...

transfering progress is not a new concept, please stop clowning yourselves.

True, you could transfer saves as early as the PS1.

I get how TC feels considering that these games are adapting a single video game from the late 90's. "It's a different game what did you expect" dude expected his game experience to carry over because both of the games are Final Fantasy 7.

It may be that a transfer would simply not work. They may have made changes to the battle systems. This is something I tried my best to get people to think about back when piece-meal was first announced.

thronedfire2 posted...

how would they balance the game if stuff carried over?

they'd have to assume everyone playing unlocked everything, which most likely means unlocking everything for people who really didn't like id had to do with the Doom Eternal DLC

do what dot hack did

just have ned game stuff be outclassed by early game stuff in the 2nd part

Thats disappointing. Its completely expected as Square is far too incompetent to do that properly, but its disappointing nonetheless.

All they really had to do was making it so the first enemies in part 2 are a slight step up from the last non-optional enemies in part 1, and if you arent transferring a save from part 1, make the party start at an appropriate level so its balanced.

Power gamers are not going to be bothered that the effort they went through to make themselves overpowered resulted in them being overpowered thats kind of the point of doing it.

Of course, you dont have to have full transference either. For example, in Suikoden 2 and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn for example, units you maxed out in the first game just get bonuses in the second game so they have a decided advantage but arent maxed out.

As for items, the notable stuff you get in Witcher 1 transfer to Witcher 2, but they suck compared to what you get at the start of the second game.

There are loads of ways to handle this without just making tens of hours utterly pointless.

This wouldnt be a problem if they werent remaking a game. That means they knew from the beginning the full scope, and should have properly planned how to make the experience as seamless as possible.

This is not at all comparable to unplanned sequels, sequels to games that arent RPGs telling a single story (like the Devil May Cry comparisons), etc. Nor is it comparable to sequels where you play an entirely different set of characters.

I'm very happy some people seem to get it. Thank you

PraetorXyn posted...

And? Ill speak for min maxer completionists when I say thats not going to bother us. FF has always been piss easy even without grinding anyway.

I'd rather have some challenge like the first game instead of spending 100 hours on a cakewalk

and I did everything in the first game besides unlock bahamut. I have no problem with a somewhat reset especially since there are also going to be more party members available in part 2

thronedfire2 posted...

I'd rather have some challenge like the first game instead of spending 100 hours on a cakewalk

and I did everything in the first game besides unlock bahamut. I have no problem with a somewhat reset especially since there are also going to be more party members available in part 2

Then dont transfer your save when it asks you to, problem solved.

PraetorXyn posted...

All they really had to do was making it so the first enemies in part 2 are a slight step up from the last non-optional enemies in part 1, and if you arent transferring a save from part 1, make the party start at an appropriate level so its balanced.

All they really had to do was make it one full game and not try to make it 3 parts split by padding.

PraetorXyn posted...

Then dont transfer your save when it asks you to, problem solved.

but it's not going to ask me to so I don't have to worry

^_^

darkphoenix181 posted...

It may be that a transfer would simply not work. They may have made changes to the battle systems. This is something I tried my best to get people to think about back when piece-meal was first announced.

Unfortunately, actual practicalities dont seem to matter to some people, they just want the nebulous concept of the thing and damn everyone who disagrees. Game is ruined because of a thing that wont even matter halfway (or less) through the game when theyve replaced all their old gear and leveled up.

PraetorXyn posted...

Thats disappointing. Its completely expected as Square is far too incompetent to do that properly, but its disappointing nonetheless.

All they really had to do was making it so the first enemies in part 2 are a slight step up from the last non-optional enemies in part 1, and if you arent transferring a save from part 1, make the party start at an appropriate level so its balanced.

Power gamers are not going to be bothered that the effort they went through to make themselves overpowered resulted in them being overpowered thats kind of the point of doing it.

Of course, you dont have to have full transference either. For example, in Suikoden 2 and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn for example, units you maxed out in the first game just get bonuses in the second game so they have a decided advantage but arent maxed out.

As for items, the notable stuff you get in Witcher 1 transfer to Witcher 2, but they suck compared to what you get at the start of the second game.

There are loads of ways to handle this without just making tens of hours utterly pointless.

This wouldnt be a problem if they werent remaking a game. That means they knew from the beginning the full scope, and should have properly planned how to make the experience as seamless as possible.

This is not at all comparable to unplanned sequels, sequels to games that arent RPGs telling a single story (like the Devil May Cry comparisons), etc. Nor is it comparable to sequels where you play an entirely different set of characters.

I too thought that when I played God of War Ragnarok, the tens of hours I spent playing God of War were utterly wasted because they didnt let me transfer my progress.

wait no I didnt care at all because the whole concept is stupid and barely applicable there or here.

once again god of war told a complete story

7 remake does not

and once again the dot hack games solved this exact problem back on the PS2

thronedfire2 posted...

but it's not going to ask me to so I don't have to worry

^_^

That was in response to you complaining that things transferring would make it too easy. In such cases, it asks if you want to transfer, so just dont. Everyone gets what they want.

Those who want a seamless power trip get one.

Those who want what passes for a challenge in one of the easiest RPG series in existence get that by opting out of transfer.

I dont think theres anyone who would want stuff to transfer and just be worthless. The games dont let you make any meaningful choices either, so transferring the choices you made is not a concern.

I looked back to see old threads that we debated this about and was shocked to notice this all happened 7 years ago. Time truly flies.

AceMos posted...

once again god of war told a complete story

7 remake does not

and once again the dot hack games solved this exact problem back on the PS2

The people making Remake put forth the idea that each part is a complete game. Whether you believe that or not is another story. Many fans back in the day did. I was not one of them.

I think Ill live.

Zonbei posted...

I too thought that when I played God of War Ragnarok, the tens of hours I spent playing God of War were utterly wasted because they didnt let me transfer my progress.

wait no I didnt care at all because the whole concept is stupid and barely applicable there or here.

Its adorable that your ilk keeps throwing out examples that arent RPGs telling a direct sequential story. I literally just said those examples were irrelevant. There are plenty of examples of RPGs doing the other. I named several without effort.

AceMos posted...

once again god of war told a complete story

7 remake does not

and once again the dot hack games solved this exact problem back on the PS2

7 remake literally tells as much of a complete story as God of War does. Going but the next game continues the story also applies to Ragnarok. The only difference is the framework youre looking at it with.

The .hack games are wildly different in structure, the games are all practically identical, and the transfer barely matters once you get a little ways into each game. I wouldnt call it anything more than a novelty. Pointing at .hack repeatedly doesnt actually mean anything. It just isnt worth doing in these games.

The designers made a design choice, and people are whining about it because of the usual weird entitlement and acting like theyre being personally maligned by design choices.

PraetorXyn posted...

Its adorable that your ilk keeps throwing out examples that arent RPGs telling a direct sequential story. I literally just said those examples were irrelevant. There are plenty of examples of RPGs doing the other. I named several without effort.

You realize that God of War and Ragnarok do in fact tell a direct sequential story, right? And are practically as much of an RPG as FF7R is?

its adorable that your ilk keep blah blah condescension blah blah confidently incorrect

It's strange than fans of FFVII don't want FFVII to be structured like GoW.

COVxy posted...

It's strange than fans of FFVII don't want FFVII to be structured like GoW.

^

discount UR being obtuse on purpose

Lol Squarefailure.

COVxy posted...

It's strange than fans of FFVII don't want FFVII to be structured like GoW.

Well, FF7R was already structured like GoW, for the most part, so youre a bit late. Youre allowed to not like it, but its the design choice theyve made and its a valid one. Its certainly not and never was going to be structured like FF7. (Which also doesnt.. transfer data from one game to another, lol, since its one game.)

Zonbei posted...

Well, FF7R was already structured like GoW, for the most part, so youre a bit late. Youre allowed to not like it, but its the design choice theyve made and its a valid one. Its certainly not and never was going to be structured like FF7. (Which also doesnt.. transfer data from one game to another, lol, since its one game.)

Did you ever play FFVII?

AceMos posted...

do what dot hack did

just have ned game stuff be outclassed by early game stuff in the 2nd part

Do you know how OP Synergy Materia is? Steadfast Block, First Strike
Maxed Out HP plus, Enemy Skill, Prayer, Elemental and more?

All that shit would throw out any setup or strategy you would come across.

Not to mention Squeenix is gonna lock hard mode behind NG+

COVxy posted...

Did you ever play FFVII?

Oh my god, dude, are you really this obtuse or just faking it

pegusus123456 posted...

Oh my god, dude, are you really this obtuse or just faking it

The reason I ask is because the disk swaps literally encapsulate little "episodes" with even little timeskips, so it's not even at all a cut and dry "that was a single game not at all comparable to released episodes".

Zonbei posted...

7 remake literally tells as much of a complete story as God of War does.

no it factually does not

not a single plot point is resolved in 7 remake

PraetorXyn posted...

^

Here's another example for the people going "but but no games do this!!"
Mass effect 2 if you failed to keep people alive in the suicide mission, would be completely absent & gone from the story in 3, or would be replaced by other characters entirely. If you carried over to 3 missing Miranda, or Garrus, or others they would be dead in that playthrough. That gives incentive to keep everyone alive so they exist in the following game.

You can stop caping for SE they aren't gonna write you a check for the free PR you're giving them Zombei, if it's all final fantasy 7, but broken up into 3 or more parts to tell the story of the game known as "final fantasy 7", the progress can carry over. They are not sequels to one another, they are the same titled game, broken up & remade for a new generation.

It's not Final Fantasy 7 Remake, then Final Fantasy 8 Rebirth, it's Final Fantasy 7 Remake, then FF7 Rebirth. It's a continuation of the same game story & mechanics, Rebirth is not suddenly going to be an ARPG or a MOBA, it's going to be the same game engine, the same characters, the same plot, with a few changes here & there because of updated graphical fidelity & a story being "remade" however they're going to tell it 20 years later.

The .hack example is continually brought up because even with the limitations at the time, .hack Infection-Quarantine did it, & .hack G.U did it over a decade ago on simpler tech. Game development is at the most accessible it's ever been in history. And a company of SE's size has the talent to make the system work to carry over progress if they wanted to, but because it's far easier to complain about the lack of will to balance their game, they're taking the easy road out at the detriment of player's enjoyment. XIV literally fucking does the same thing between expansions where your raid gear is superior than new leveled stuff for the 70-74, or 80-84 range each time, before you replace it for stronger stuff.

Your progression mattered so you didn't have to replace equipment as soon, & you knew your work went towards something because it carried you for awhile longer. Just because a new expansion came out didn't mean it was a new game or a sequel, it's an addition on the same damn game just like each addition of FF7 is.

But then again because this is somehow complicated for many of you to understand, there's only a small group of people in here that actually understand the issue, & the rest of you are throwing out false equivalences & bad counterarguments lol

PowerOats posted...

Do you know how OP Synergy Materia is? Steadfast Block, First Strike
Maxed Out HP plus, Enemy Skill, Prayer, Elemental and more?

All that shit would throw out any setup or strategy you would come across.

Not to mention Squeenix is gonna lock hard mode behind NG+

Honestly this is even more worth getting pissed off about. Making you play the game a second time to experience it properly is stupid. I would not be surprised if the PC version has a mod to solve that though.

COVxy posted...

The reason I ask is because the disk swaps literally encapsulate little "episodes" with even little timeskips, so it's not even at all a cut and dry "that was a single game not at all comparable to released episodes".

Except swapping a disc is not the same thing as being a sequel.

Unless you're fixing to argue that the remake is actually a tetralogy because Rebirth is going to have two discs.

Imagine playing FFVII, and suddenly the game decides to change your level at specific parts of the game for balancing issues.
Want to overlevel or do a lowlevel run? Hahaha fuck you!

COVxy posted...

Did you ever play FFVII?

Sure did. Not sure why thats relevant. FF7R isnt FF7. The parenthetical about it being one game wasnt really important and more of an aside, but pretending like swapping discs makes it more than one game is pretty obtuse.

Foppe posted...

Imagine playing FFVII, and suddenly the game decides to change your level at specific parts of the game for balancing issues.
Want to overlevel or do a lowlevel run? Hahaha fuck you!

That would be weird, since its a single game.

PraetorXyn posted...

Honestly this is even more worth getting pissed off about. Making you play the game a second time to experience it properly is stupid. I would not be surprised if the PC version has a mod to solve that though.

This I agree with. hard mode should always be available right away.

Zonbei posted...

That would be weird, since its a single game.

Remaking the first 4 hours of a game and call it a full game is weird.

pegusus123456 posted...

Except swapping a disc is not the same thing as being a sequel.

Unless you're fixing to argue that the remake is actually a tetralogy because Rebirth is going to have two discs.

My point is the argument, as stupid as it is, has shaky legs to begin with.

Foppe posted...

Remaking the first 4 hours of a game and call it a full game is weird.

unless you actually played it and realized it was 40-50 hours of content

so did you not play FF7:remake, or are you just shitposting?

COVxy posted...

My point is the argument, as stupid as it is, has shaky legs to begin with.

Except, as Zonbei pointed out, these are separate games. You can be mad that they're separate games, but they were always going to be. The argument should have been (and probably was) made seven years ago or whenever it came out.

Any sort of progression they did keep would have been absolutely token. Like the Witcher 2 letting you "keep" certain weapons that are so terrible they're replaced almost immediately.

AceMos posted...

no it factually does not

not a single plot point is resolved in 7 remake

not a single plot point was resolved in .hack Infection. Whats your point? (Not that your statement is even true, since several plot points in 7 remake were resolved, chief among them the battle against shinra in Midgar what with all the bombings and the part where they dropped a plate on the city. (Hint: it was resolved by sephiroth murdering all of them, mostly.) the plot point of aerith being kidnapped? Resolved. The plot point of TIFA being kidnapped. Resolved.

It did not resolve EVERY plot point. Thats for sure.

Foppe posted...

Imagine playing FFVII, and suddenly the game decides to change your level at specific parts of the game for balancing issues.
Want to overlevel or do a lowlevel run? Hahaha fuck you!

What about people who overlevel Aerith?

Zonbei posted...

not a single plot point was resolved in .hack Infection.

yes it is kite gets his revenge on skieth

Foppe posted...

Remaking the first 4 hours of a game and call it a full game is weird.

Yeah, super weird, which is why theyd have to like expand on the game, reimagine those 4 hours into a larger, full game, add more content, make full cutscenes that arent just text boxes, enhance every single aspect of the game, etc.

Shame they didnt do that and the game is only 4 hours long.

AceMos posted...

yes it is kite gets his revenge on skieth

It is wild to me that you consider that a plot point being resolved but not all the ones in FF7R.

Zonbei posted...

(Not that your statement is even true, since several plot points in 7 remake were resolved, chief among them the battle against shinra in Midgar what with all the bombings and the part where they dropped a plate on the city. (Hint: it was resolved by sephiroth murdering all of them, mostly.) the plot point of aerith being kidnapped? Resolved. The plot point of TIFA being kidnapped. Resolved.

The biggest one is the Whispers. It seems to have been solved as well, so we prrrrrobably won't see them in the sequel.

pegusus123456 posted...

The biggest one is the Whispers. It seems to have been solved as well, so we prrrrrobably won't see them in the sequel.

That is also very true; it seems they were resolved and now fate is free to be fucked with. Its almost like FF7R was a full game with a beginning, middle, and end. Its as much a full game as the first lord of the rings book/movie is a full book/movie. They have their adventure, but there is more to come.