Board 8 > Video Game Console Mafia - Topic 7: Bonus Round

(+) Yeah! (+)

EDumey posted...

Peaf blocked the kill with Jailkeep: 45%
Scum shot into one of Chris' vests: 45%

So you believe both are peaf and Chris are town?

wallmasterz posted...

Youve posted half a dozen to a dozen times today but no interest in claiming, voting or alternatively explaining why you didnt vote yet when your comments from earlier indicate MZero being the logical place for your vote?

This is why I so often go under the radar. Even when I have like 40 posts people are like oh yeah Ctes posted like 6 to 12 times. I am honestly not sure why that happens lol.

There is no particular reason, which I already told you but maybe it was in those other 28-34 posts. It's not important if my vote is there yet or not atm. Me claiming doesn't change the picture in the slightest.

EDumey posted...

Maybe you didn't say it would be a "good idea" but you implied that it had odds anywhere near the other options.

I have a reason for why it could be when people said no sense could be found in it.

EDumey posted...

How am I contradicting myself? You as scum want to mislynch Death. You throw your vote on with an excuse (valid or not) that you won't be able to follow up on it. Death gets lynched. There's a perfectly good reason for you to make that play as scum.

The contradiction is that you say it was a good lynch from a scum perspective while calling it bad at the same time.

Like, I had given reasons the day before and then Death had now gone to what looked like the night target again. It made complete sense at the time, what more explanation did you need.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I have a reason for why it could be when people said no sense could be found in it.

Just because this is badly worded. I brought it up because people said it was impossible and said why it was not. I pretty clearly said what I found to be the most likely event.

Obellisk posted...

So you believe both are peaf and Chris are town?

Yes, and I've stated so before. BG is weak one-time protection. Commuter/Jailkeep is limited protection (Peaf can't just keep Wallz protected indefinitely with this role) and also has a strong downside to it in it's roleblock for protection. Armorer is limited protection.

Someone earlier (might have been you SBell) pointed out that if both Armorer and BG were outted early, then there's technically a pretty broken combo where Armorer could keep BG alive while hard protecting someone like Red. But the chances of that combo happening early enough (both protection willingly outting themselves in the first couple days) where Armorer still has enough vests to give are pretty low, so I don't think that combo being used is enough to completely discredit it.

I also still think MZero is probably the strongman. Willing to lynch Ctes first because I feel more strongly about Ctes.

If you think MZero or Chris is town you should not be voting anywhere but the other one jfc.

@Peace___Frog would you have been seen on red n1 if you werent rbd?

ctesjbuvf posted...

The contradiction is that you say it was a good lynch from a scum perspective while calling it bad at the same time.

It is a good lynch from scum perspective. But scum has to make bad plays sometimes to further their goals. That's kind of the bread and butter of what makes Mafia a game. Scum has to make unoptimal plays and try not to get caught doing so. Evaluating a mislynch and trying to decide who had the worst votes or the most scum equity is a common strategy for the game. So there is no contradiction. There was a mislynch. You as scum wanted that mislynch, so it was good from your perspective to be a part of it. In analysis, your vote looks the worst of the bunch, and there is scum equity in using your real life excuse (again not disputing the validity of you not being there, I don't think you were lying, just using it opportunistically) of not being available to not have to stick around and defend it.

EDumey posted...

Yes, and I've stated so before. BG is weak one-time protection. Commuter/Jailkeep is limited protection (Peaf can't just keep Wallz protected indefinitely with this role) and also has a strong downside to it in it's roleblock for protection. Armorer is limited protection.

Someone earlier (might have been you SBell) pointed out that if both Armorer and BG were outted early, then there's technically a pretty broken combo where Armorer could keep BG alive while hard protecting someone like Red. But the chances of that combo happening early enough (both protection willingly outting themselves in the first couple days) where Armorer still has enough vests to give are pretty low, so I don't think that combo being used is enough to completely discredit it.

I also still think MZero is probably the strongman. Willing to lynch Ctes first because I feel more strongly about Ctes.

that wasn't me, but that's not important.

So Mzero is the scum and Mzero just made up a cop scan on Marth but it's likely true cause why lie about a scummate and fuck the team...

Ctes claim. Stop avoiding it in your replies. Just claim.

ctesjbuvf posted...

If you think MZero or Chris is town you should not be voting anywhere but the other one jfc.

tells everyone how to vote

wont vote

wallmasterz posted...

@Peace___Frog would you have been seen on red n1 if you werent rbd?

No. I did not target him. I figured even then that there was probably some kind of Protection role other than me in the game. So at best all i would do is role block him and maybe also out the other protection.

I targeted sbell. I know i said this at least once last topic. I wanted to roleblock the Miller claim. Worst case here, I'd waste an action. Best case, i prevent scum hiding as Miller from doing something.

EDumey posted...

It is a good lynch from scum perspective. But scum has to make bad plays sometimes to further their goals. That's kind of the bread and butter of what makes Mafia a game. Scum has to make unoptimal plays and try not to get caught doing so. Evaluating a mislynch and trying to decide who had the worst votes or the most scum equity is a common strategy for the game. So there is no contradiction. There was a mislynch. You as scum wanted that mislynch, so it was good from your perspective to be a part of it. In analysis, your vote looks the worst of the bunch, and there is scum equity in using your real life excuse (again not disputing the validity of you not being there, I don't think you were lying, just using it opportunistically) of not being available to not have to stick around and defend it.

That lynch happens irregardless of I ever post that day. That's your fallacy here. It's the easiest lynch ever to defend too.

Ah yes. I apologize I remember you saying that now.

Also a reason for resolving Ctes first before Chris/Mzero for people like Sultan who have expressed confusion about this earlier.

If Ctes flips scum, then Chris could still be scum or town. We've learned nothing, but have killed scum and feel less pressured about being able to try another 50/50.

If Ctes flips town, then as Peaf and I proofed earlier, it makes the No Kill from last night almost guaranteed to be because of the Armorer claim, and would heavily inform me to lynch MZero instead of Chris. The only other option at that point would be intentional No Kill from scum, which I've explained earlier I don't think is the case that they intentional No Kill after there was no kill the previous night as well.

It's not like lynching Ctes here is going off in a complete random direction. It is contributing toward solving the game, and I personally have more confidence in the read.

wallmasterz posted...

tells everyone how to vote

wont vote

Hi, could you please at least read my posts.

ctesjbuvf posted...

That lynch happens irregardless of I ever post that day. That's your fallacy here. It's the easiest lynch ever to defend too.

but that's not what happened, is it? you did vote. your vote looks bad. your vote has scum equity.

Claim.

EDumey posted...

but that's not what happened, is it? you did vote. your vote looks bad.

And yet after you and other people stated this a billion times combined you still said it would have made sense for me if scum to think of it as a good vote.

ctesjbuvf posted...

And yet after you and other people stated this a billion times combined you still said it would have made sense for me if scum to think of it as a good vote.

The more you delay, the more it looks like you're waiting on your scum team to okay your fake claim.

Claim.

I think you guys are nitpicking over how an action looks at the time vs later after more info is out in public. Surely as adults we all have actions or decisions that we thought were great at the time but in retrospect really shot ourselves in the foot.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Hi, could you please at least read my posts.

post 82 you said no reason you havent voted yet and I dont see any vote from you, I mightve missed it I guess.

EDumey posted...

Also a reason for resolving Ctes first before Chris/Mzero for people like Sultan who have expressed confusion about this earlier.

If Ctes flips scum, then Chris could still be scum or town. We've learned nothing, but have killed scum and feel less pressured about being able to try another 50/50.

If Ctes flips town, then as Peaf and I proofed earlier, it makes the No Kill from last night almost guaranteed to be because of the Armorer claim, and would heavily inform me to lynch MZero instead of Chris. The only other option at that point would be intentional No Kill from scum, which I've explained earlier I don't think is the case that they intentional No Kill after there was no kill the previous night as well.

It's not like lynching Ctes here is going off in a complete random direction. It is contributing toward solving the game, and I personally have more confidence in the read.

This is terrible plan tbh. You know basically for certain there is scum in MZero/Chris and you're somehow choosing the path of resolving it that could lead to two mislynches.

Reading this post made me wonder if you just explained exactly what scum Chris is hoping happens

Peace___Frog posted...

I think you guys are nitpicking over how an action looks at the time vs later after more info is out in public. Surely as adults we all have actions or decisions that we thought were great at the time but in retrospect really shot ourselves in the foot.

I'm completely aware that this is Ctes trying to drag the argument down into the reeds. I've said my piece on it so I'm good leaving that thread where it is.

ctesjbuvf posted...

This is terrible plan tbh. You know basically for certain there is scum in MZero/Chris and you're somehow choosing the path of resolving it that could lead to two mislynches.

Reading this post made me wonder if you just explained exactly what scum Chris is hoping happens

Claim.

In ctes' defense, we're probably not going to believe him at this point anyway. Maybe 12 hours ago something could have been considered. But I'm not sure how much more power can even be claimed in this game, and a vanilla claim isn't saving him.

I might finally be on the mass page. We've got just Ulti, Corrik, and ctes, right?

EDumey posted...

I'm completely aware that this is Ctes trying to drag the argument down into the reeds. I've said my piece on it so I'm good leaving that thread where it is.

No it isn't. It's you trying to make everything fit your narrative. You had what was a supposed fair point about it. Then you said all sorts of BS about it afterward and it's making the picture seem like something it's not.

wallmasterz posted...

post 82 you said no reason you havent voted yet and I dont see any vote from you, I mightve missed it I guess.

I said if you think MZero or Chris is town you should not vote somewhere that is not the other one. Considering which it is is not the same thing at ignoring what's right in front of you.

That's why it's so utterly ridiculous that he's holding out and not just saying it. What is the town equity in hiding your Vanilla role at this point when you're primed to be the lynch? It's not like he's gonna draw a shot from scum at this point and want to keep his lack of power low-key.

The ridiculous part is the amount of power claimed to be honest and it somehow wasn't Death who was the lier among them. I already said me claiming would not change anything.

ctesjbuvf posted...

The ridiculous part is the amount of power claimed to be honest and it somehow wasn't Death who was the lier among them. I already said me claiming would not change anything.

Says this and refuses to vote for anyone, Chris and peaf included

wallmasterz posted...

Says this and refuses to vote for anyone, Chris and peaf included

I am not refusing to vote, I just haven't done so yet, but it will guaranteed be MZero or Chris. I was hoping to look closer at them today, but I am admittedly getting distracted by a bunch of weird posts atm. At least Dumey made one pretty eye opening post in that sequence that I hope people will back at if I die.

ctesjbuvf posted...

The ridiculous part is the amount of power claimed to be honest and it somehow wasn't Death who was the lier among them. I already said me claiming would not change anything.

Then claim.

Did you mean to say Chris and MZero?

No I meant Chris and peaf. You said the amount of claimed power is ridiculous so I figured you thought the protection claims on top of deaths flips probably werent both true

wallmasterz posted...

No I meant Chris and peaf. You said the amount of claimed power is ridiculous so I figured you thought the protection claims on top of deaths flips probably werent both true

Peaf can't fake this. Death confirmed he was commuting. He doesn't lie about jailkeeping me either when probably not knowing what I am. It could be Chris setting all this up for a good 2 for 1 but I don't think he would know about the JK which in that case has done him wonders and his role is currently the best explanation for no night kill.

Okay soo.

Ctes does not effect what is on the table of Chris and Mzero unless he is miraculously the Ninja RoleBlocker. Mzero and Chris both objectively have there negatives to them

Chris was rather inactive until his claim.
Chris did not vote at all yesterday

Mzero I have had this horrible gut feeling he is scum all game and I've trusted my gut on Lopen and it turned out well. Lopen and Mzero looked connected that I've pointed out twice.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Ctes does not effect what is on the table of Chris and Mzero unless he is miraculously the Ninja RoleBlocker. Mzero and Chris both objectively have there negatives to them

Refer to my post #115. I'm arguing that Ctes' alignment DOES affect what is on the table of Chris and MZero.

EDumey posted...

Refer to my post #115. I'm arguing that Ctes' alignment DOES affect what is on the table of Chris and MZero.

Maybe, I think it more or less gives us the most information on Peaf. If he is town that means scum would have had to randomed ctes for some reason and then we shift to more of a peaf v Chris kinda thing on what happened with protection. ( I guess would make Mzero stick out more of the 2), so I guess it's not that far off course.

If he flips scum though and it's not like ninja roleblocker we just know that peaf caught him i do not see how this answers Mzero v Chris though.

I guess that is what you said in a way.

No, nothing about peaf being a suspect. If Ctes is town, then the only real explanations for the no kill are Chris being town, or scum intentional No Killing, which is unlikely. So Ctes flipping town would help us resolve MZero/Chris because the chances of MZero being the liar between the two are greatly increased.
I guess also if Ctes miraculously flipped as Ninja Strongman, then we wouldn't lynch either of Chris or MZero.

If Ctes flips scum, then we learned nothing about Mzero/Chris, but we have successfully lynched scum.

How does it make Chris look better doesn't jail keeper prevent that person from moving.

Night Action is one that protects its target from kills, but also Roleblocks its target. Unlike Doctor, Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.

So it doesn't prove anything of Chris if ctes is town. It just shows that peaf saved Ctes last night and scum must have random shot Ctes. Or alternatively Chris used his Bulletproof vest on someone else it gets us no where with this im confused.

If he is scum and not ninja strongman it also proves nothing.

No no, I don't think scum random shot Ctes. I think Ctes is scum, and Peaf prevented the nightkill by roleblocking Ctes. That's the part I think you're missing in the equation.

If Ctes is town, then Peaf's action didn't matter, and the No Kill being the result of Chris' role is the highest probability.

EDumey posted...

No no, I don't think scum random shot Ctes. I think Ctes is scum, and Peaf prevented the nightkill by roleblocking Ctes. That's the part I think you're missing in the equation.

If Ctes is town, then Peaf's action didn't matter, and the No Kill being the result of Chris' role is the highest probability.

Bad logic to go Ctes first then. If he is town we do not know if scum randomed ctes or if someone else was saved by Chris.

The odds of scum randoming Ctes and Chris' role being truthful are on completely different levels. Even if scum was taking a shot into the unclaimed slots hunting for doctor, Ctes would probably be the last one they'd shoot because it drastically narrows the PoE and puts scum in more risk. It would be so much better for them to take a shot at Marth or Ulti, who both had reasons in topic for not being lynched. The idea that scum random shot Ctes should only be included as a footnote, not evaluated as even odds.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Bad logic to go Ctes first then. If he is town we do not know if scum randomed ctes or if someone else was saved by Chris.

If ctes is town then we know that Chris is, too.

Peace___Frog posted...

If ctes is town then we know that Chris is, too.

Did you yourself not humor the idea of no kill or was that someone else?

Sbell raised it. I humored it.

So ok sure it's not 100%. But it'd be closer than it is right now.

Peace___Frog posted...

If ctes is town then we know that Chris is, too.

How?! I really dont understand this. If Ctes is town the variables are still

Chris could be town
Peaf is town

Does not prove without a doubt that ctes wasn't randomed or there was a no kill or something yes Chris could have given someone a vest but that is also not proven.

I really dont understand this at all lol
Ctes being lynched flipping town does not confirm Chris sorry not sorry

Let me guess ctes you're Vanilla and claiming vanilla isn't helpful cuz it just sound fake anyways?

I have an idea that would resolve Chris and Mzero but its ruined by Chris not revealing who he claims to have granted a vest