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Board 8 > Video Game Console Mafia - Topic 7: Bonus Round

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UnderUrMattress
05/08/23 7:08:00 PM
#201:


Also the question was literally asked to me who I'd vote if MZero flipped scum.

I'm not touching sbell or Corrik or anyone mentioned there today.

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Obellisk
05/08/23 7:12:32 PM
#202:


to be clear I'm also not saying you are scum here, I'm just ya know, being a nudge.

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 7:55:53 PM
#203:


I think my post 173 was a tl;dr for most people

tl;dr version

If Chris is scum, lynch sultan next
if Chris is town, mzero and ctes are very probably scum together. Start with mzero though

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Peace___Frog
05/08/23 8:05:18 PM
#204:


You guys are seriously going to let the guy who refuses to claim live?

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TheSultanOfSlam
05/08/23 8:07:39 PM
#205:


Peace___Frog posted...
You guys are seriously going to let the guy who refuses to claim live?
He is probably vanilla and the claim will mean nothing it will not change your mind either way tbh


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EDumey
05/08/23 8:14:54 PM
#206:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
He is probably vanilla and the claim will mean nothing it will not change your mind either way tbh
what is the town equity of refusing to claim vanilla when you (ctes) were at -1 just earlier in the day? if you're town, wouldn't you just share that info instead of being willfully obtuse about it?

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 8:51:05 PM
#207:


Can someone with more experience playing with ctes vouch for how he plays with his back against the wall? Has he ever stubbornly not claimed as town? Based on their posts and how theyve interacted today I would lynch ctes over Chris but I have trouble buying Chris role in addition to death and peaf, plus surely ctes will claim vanilla and theres liars somewhere in the town power claims

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 8:53:18 PM
#208:


seems this is a relatively low power game. Nerfed cop, watcher, grave robber (if mzero is town). Bg, jailkeeper/commuter, armorer (if Chris is town). Scum has a strongman, rb, probably a godfather, maybe a ninja.

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Corrik7
05/08/23 8:57:11 PM
#209:


##unvote:
##vote: ctes

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 8:59:42 PM
#210:


Corrik, seems like you have a problem with ctes not claiming?

Kinda weird though, right? Our flavor seems to not matter at all so how hard is it to say whatever console, vanilla

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TheSultanOfSlam
05/08/23 9:22:05 PM
#211:


Don't like how inactive Chris has been I know one of his games ended so I have no idea what other games he is in but the inactive while being gunned at is noticed

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Corrik7
05/08/23 9:36:40 PM
#212:


wallmasterz posted...
Corrik, seems like you have a problem with ctes not claiming?

Kinda weird though, right? Our flavor seems to not matter at all so how hard is it to say whatever console, vanilla
Um ok

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 9:38:19 PM
#213:


##Vote: Chris

Ive been overcomplicating this. Chris absolutely looks scummy for reasons MZero has posted about today - Chris initially was ready to defend Lopen, Chris pushed for death to be lynched and was critical of everyone who left / was never on the death lynch, and Chris came into today voting ctes and saying yeah ctes is a fine starting point but we need to talk about mzero. Theres a chance Chris and ctes are scum together. I cant forget earlier today, ctes listing a bunch of people as town and saying all those people were town except Chris is probably town and then Chris was like lol, thanks ctes. Could have been scum posting about scum and Chris thought it was an awkward post. This was before ctes got a little more engaged with the game.

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 9:38:43 PM
#214:


Corrik7 posted...
Um ok

Um ok

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Corrik7
05/08/23 9:39:36 PM
#215:


##unvote:
##vote: Chris

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Obellisk
05/08/23 9:42:00 PM
#216:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Don't like how inactive Chris has been I know one of his games ended so I have no idea what other games he is in but the inactive while being gunned at is noticed

why don't you do aimething about it

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Obellisk
05/08/23 9:42:09 PM
#217:


something*

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 9:43:55 PM
#218:


Another reason Im voting Chris - hes not actually voting mzero. I think mzero is voting Chris because mzero genuinely believes Chris is scum. If Chris flips town, mzero is dead tomorrow. Mzero knows hes likely going to die if Chris flips town but is still voting Chris.

Chris probably knows mzero is town, and it suits Chris not to resolve mzero/chris today. If ctes flips scum Chris can just go on arguing that death, peaf and Chris roles all exist together.

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Peace___Frog
05/08/23 9:46:18 PM
#219:


I think that's -1

I'm fine with a chris lynch for the reasons that you outlined. I think he and ctes are both scum so if i die tonight please go after ctes tomorrow. I don't expect him to send in the kill again, and i don't trust my ability to nail the last one.

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 9:48:36 PM
#220:


Yes, its -1 and I think anyone should feel free to hammer if they wish.

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Obellisk
05/08/23 9:49:40 PM
#221:


where's red?

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 9:50:50 PM
#222:


Reds dead baby. Reds dead.

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Peace___Frog
05/08/23 9:51:14 PM
#223:


Red been dead

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SirChris
05/08/23 9:52:32 PM
#224:


Good luck guys. Remember my PoE and try not to let mechanics overwhelm you.

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wallmasterz
05/08/23 9:59:12 PM
#225:


Thanks Chris. Who do you want us to off if youre town, still ctes?

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Corrik7
05/08/23 9:59:59 PM
#226:


##unvote:
##vote: ctes

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SirChris
05/08/23 10:00:30 PM
#227:


wallmasterz posted...
Thanks Chris. Who do you want us to off if youre town, still ctes?

Yeah ctes is clearly just doing whatever they want

Ctes/corrik/sbell/ulti should be your poe. If you don't listen, well, can't say I didn't tell ya post game

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TheSultanOfSlam
05/08/23 10:10:53 PM
#228:


Chris is a smooth talker or something this makes me want to lynch mzero even more.

Lol I'm not in the funky duck camp of neither of them 2 being scum

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UnderUrMattress
05/08/23 11:52:56 PM
#229:


Obellisk posted...
where's red?
O.o

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MZero
05/08/23 11:59:36 PM
#230:


The only thing giving me pause with ctes is tha he said he was "on the right track" with Lopen and death

Does scum ctes intentionally "forget" death was town as a ploy? I'm not sure. I can't think of a game I played he was scum in off hand.

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MZero
05/09/23 12:01:44 AM
#231:


I suppose it's also possible scum ctes is paying so little attention that he forgot death wasn't on his team

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Corrik7
05/09/23 12:04:20 AM
#232:


##unvote:
##vote: Chris

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UnderUrMattress
05/09/23 12:15:28 AM
#233:


@EDumey what's the move?

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EDumey
05/09/23 1:00:35 AM
#234:


I haven't really moved since before. If I had to place percentage of confidence right now, I'd say I think MZero is scum over Chris at about 70/30. That's a lot of room for error still. I do think Chris' role can exist in this setup with the chance of failure and interactivity it has during the game, so it's important to not just compare it to doctor with no other context. I feel like if our protection this game is JUST Bodyguard and limited Jailkeeper, that sounds really weak, which is why I want to believe Chris' claim at a basic level.
But ultimately, the reason why I asked Chris in our neighbor chat to come out and claim after Peaf's full claim was because I didn't feel confident enough in making that decision myself. I wanted town's input, which has understandably been split and a bit controversial.

That's why I'm looking more at Ctes and what his flip could inform us. Does he flip Ninja Strongman? Hell yeah, we don't need to resolve MZero/Chris at all. Does he flip town? I think that makes it far more likely to be MZero scum. Does he flip some other scum but not strongman? We still hit scum, so that feels great, and we can then continue arguing about MZero/Chris after.

My confidence of Ctes being scum at this point is probably at 90%. That's why I feel so much more confidently in going that route for info, because I also just think we've hit scum there. See my reasoning in
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80436896/973343352
Plus the way he acted today really did not bestow any confidence in me. Refusing to claim, when there's no reason a town player would have to be so stubborn about it. Even if he's just Vanilla and "it wouldn't matter", just show a willingness to work with us and figure things out. Then he's even going so far as to try and imply that I'm scum. Which, I probably shouldn't be the one arguing this point, is so incredibly dumb at this point. It's not JUST that I caught the scum roleblocker, but I also caught the untargettable Lopen who had a great alibi set up and was ready to coast to end game if I didn't have this incredibly specific role interaction that was able to catch him.

So yeah, I'm not really going to stop the majority if you all think Chris' claim is too much protection, but I feel more comfortable where my vote is at on Ctes.

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EDumey
05/09/23 1:10:52 AM
#235:


Certainly town: Peaf, Wallz, Dumey
Probably town: Ulti, Sultan, Marth
Possible scum: MZero or Chris, Corrik, Ctes, SBell.

There's probably 3 scum out there. If I'm constructing scum teams of MZero/Chris + 2 of the remaining 3, then I pick Ctes as one of those two every single time. It feels like the only way I'm wrong is if scumCorrik and Lopen both did a crazy job hiding Ulti and I'm naive for believing in it. I asked people to weigh in on that earlier, but didn't really get anyone jumping on that conspiracy theory with me.

Every way I know how to evaluate this game, by setup meta, by personal play, by statistical probability, by sheer gut, tells me to kill Ctes.

But I'm also just bad at this game sometimes, so lol.

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MZero
05/09/23 1:44:36 AM
#236:


EDumey posted...
I haven't really moved since before. If I had to place percentage of confidence right now, I'd say I think MZero is scum over Chris at about 70/30. That's a lot of room for error still. I do think Chris' role can exist in this setup with the chance of failure and interactivity it has during the game, so it's important to not just compare it to doctor with no other context. I feel like if our protection this game is JUST Bodyguard and limited Jailkeeper, that sounds really weak, which is why I want to believe Chris' claim at a basic level.

Do you think I push Chris hard over ctes as scum, knowing that Chris flipping town is essentially a death sentence for me? What's the motive when there is a very strong case for ctes sitting right there?

On the contrary, Chris has not tried to lynch me

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Corrik7
05/09/23 1:44:47 AM
#237:


##unvote:
##vote: Ctes

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MZero
05/09/23 1:47:42 AM
#238:


Corrik stop creating extra work for the hosts lol

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SirChris
05/09/23 1:57:33 AM
#239:


MZero posted...
Do you think I push Chris hard over ctes as scum, knowing that Chris flipping town is essentially a death sentence for me? What's the motive when there is a very strong case for ctes sitting right there?

On the contrary, Chris has not tried to lynch me

If they lunch you over my express wishes we deserve to lose tbh. This isn't your scum game at all.

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Corrik7
05/09/23 2:01:32 AM
#240:


MZero posted...
Corrik stop creating extra work for the hosts lol


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EDumey
05/09/23 2:08:45 AM
#241:


MZero posted...
Do you think I push Chris hard over ctes as scum, knowing that Chris flipping town is essentially a death sentence for me? What's the motive when there is a very strong case for ctes sitting right there?

On the contrary, Chris has not tried to lynch me

I can't really tell what your motive is. Maybe you thought that Ctes getting pushed to -1 and not being lynched just because people unvoted to give more time for discussion meant that it was safer for you to posture. Maybe you think that as scum, going for the third party instead of the person you're supposedly in a 50/50 with looks bad, so you felt pressured to stay on Chris only, which is why you're now using this as an attack against Chris. The point is I feel like you could play it either way as scum. Take the easy alternate lynch, or try to fight the 50/50 early knowing that it's going to come up later even if town does lynch Ctes first.

To be fair, I did notice that Chris' PoE to follow when he posted above didn't include you even as a mention in it, which I think is worrying. He seems more open to the idea of a ninja strongman existing, and listed you bringing up past games of Sultan as more effort than you would go to as scum. So that existing town read of you is something I feel like he's making a little too haphazardly if he's town. But at least he's explained it.

I don't think it's a clear decision either way, that's my problem.

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SirChris
05/09/23 2:12:43 AM
#242:


man if you guys lynch me and lose because you dont listen to me after I'm not going to be kind post game.


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UnderUrMattress
05/09/23 4:03:47 AM
#243:


SirChris posted...
man if you guys lynch me and lose because you dont listen to me after I'm not going to be kind post game.
what's your 3/3?

i believe i asked earlier but i'm pretty sure you never responded.

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SirChris
05/09/23 4:40:32 AM
#244:


UnderUrMattress posted...
what's your 3/3?

i believe i asked earlier but i'm pretty sure you never responded.

my poe is ctes/corrik/sbell/ulti in order

think everyone is condemning power way too much when the only thing flipped is something as busted as untargetable roleblocker tbh

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UnderUrMattress
05/09/23 4:40:58 AM
#245:


SirChris posted...
my poe is ctes/corrik/sbell/ulti in order

think everyone is condemning power way too much when the only thing flipped is something as busted as untargetable roleblocker tbh
wait why not MZero?

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SirChris
05/09/23 4:42:38 AM
#246:


UnderUrMattress posted...
wait why not MZero?

Because mzero is not in their scum meta at all lmao.

On top of that, they proactively claimed. I have never in my life seen a scum mzero speak with such confidence about a read where he did with sultan.

Dude's just town and people are relying way, way too much on roles tbh

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UnderUrMattress
05/09/23 4:55:25 AM
#247:


SirChris posted...
Because mzero is not in their scum meta at all lmao.

On top of that, they proactively claimed. I have never in my life seen a scum mzero speak with such confidence about a read where he did with sultan.

Dude's just town and people are relying way, way too much on roles tbh
O__________O

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UnderUrMattress
05/09/23 5:01:03 AM
#248:


UnderUrMattress posted...
O__________O
i'm pretty sure if you use Occam's Razor here, then MZero has to be mafia in your POV... what makes you not want to do that?

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SirChris
05/09/23 5:05:13 AM
#249:


UnderUrMattress posted...
i'm pretty sure if you use Occam's Razor here, then MZero has to be mafia in your POV... what makes you not want to do that?

I have never a day in my life while playing mafia used occam's razor because occam's razor and mafia are incomptable concepts.

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UnderUrMattress
05/09/23 5:22:08 AM
#250:


shrug

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