Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 82: Backstreet Boys - Millennium (+ Sigrid results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, October 2 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).
7c. I have added a tiered vote structure - the least popular album will be removed and its backup votes distributed to the other two entrants.
8. The Acclaimed Music Bot will take the top album from the three highest ranked artists on Acclaimed Music who have not yet appeared. On the week before, people can argue for an alternative album by those three artists.

Backstreet Boys - Millennium track list:
1. Larger Than Life
2. I Want It That Way
3. Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
4. It's Gotta Be You
5. I Need You Tonight
6. Don't Want You Back
7. Don't Wanna Lose You Now
8. The One
9. Back to Your Heart
10. Spanish Eyes
11. No One Else Comes Close
12. The Perfect Fan

User Cycle:
10/02: Johnbobb (Slipknot - Vol. 3: The Subliminal Verses)
10/09: VeryInsane (Nas - Illmatic)
10/16: FoolFantastic
10/23: Seanchan
10/30: Giggsalot
11/06: RyoCaliente
11/13: darkx
11/20: neonreaper
11/27: Great_Paul
12/04: jcgamer107
12/11: ChichiriMuyo
12/18: BlueCrystalTear
12/25: MetalmindStats
1/1: Acclaimed Music Bot
1/8: HBJDubs
1/15: Raetsel_Lapin
1/22: Steiner
1/29: Snake5555555555
2/5: Jesse_Custer
2/12: ZaziGuado
2/19: firefdr

Sigrid - Sucker Punch results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
VeryInsane (14)
ZaziGuado (16)
Seanchan (22)
Snake5555555555 (26)
FoolFantastic (28)
MetalmindStats (32)
Johnbobb (34)
BlueCrystalTear (40)
HBJDubs (42)
Raetsel_Lapin (42)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: OH MY GOD IS THIS ALBUM SUCH A BREATH OF FRESH AIR! Just nice easy, approachable pop. So much more my speed after the last 2 weeks. Im going to make the easy comparison and say it reminded me of Lorde a bit.

HBJDubs: No strong feelings for any song in particular, album is okay. Probably need more time listening to see if something can get me hooked in

Johnbobb: Still not super vibing with this one, for what is probably the 4th week in a row unfortunately (La Dispute was solid but nowhere near like RATM and Elton John before it). Now that it's bad by any means; Sigrid has a lovely voice, but a lot of it just feels a little too generic poppy. Great vocals over okay beats and kinda bland lyrics that put a catchy beat above all else. Again, I'm being a little harsher than I need to. I didn't dislike it, and definitely bobbed my head to it more than once, but it's not one I'd put on my playlist.

Also it reminds me just a little too much of Natalie Portman's vague pop singer character in Vox Lux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbIEiac-0PY

BlueCrystalTear: I think we definitely needed something like this. Light, catchy bubblegum pop to help balance the redundant instrumentation of the last couple weeks. The songs here are somewhat more variant - only somewhat, since these songs fall into one of three buckets, buckets that have slight overlap. I happened to enjoy the "string section" bucket the best, alongside "In Vain."

ZaziGuado: Sigrid was only 22 when this album dropped and I think the most impressive thing about it is how she is able to sing and perform in such a self-assured and infectious manner from such a young age. Sucker Punch doesn't revolutionize the pop sound and the material is pretty by the book. Sigrid simply shows that she is able to do this as well as any current pop artist.

Seanchan: I'm going to echo a lot of others sentiments here when I say that this is just the definition of poppy pop. And I'm totally fine with that, especially after the last few weeks, because that's a type of music I tend to like. And I enjoyed this, but only to the level of "like". Ultimately though, I feel like this is going to be one of those super ephemeral albums that's completely enjoyable in the moment but leaves no lasting mark.

To put it another way (and I'm casting my eyes towards next week's BSB album), Sigrid is an artist you'd find hanging out on the lower end of TRL's Top 10. Maybe you'd see one of her songs spike up to 4-5 after she appeared on the show, but not someone who would be fighting with BSB/NSync/Britney/Christina for that top spot. It's an album that's derivative of an era, not defining it.

Snake5555555555: Sigrid's Sucker Punch features brash and moody themes that she likes to infuse with a dose of nostalgia. However, a lot of the songs blend together too easily making the overall experience a confusing one. Decent choruses and some pretty vocals are present, but Sucker Punch becomes too forgettable as the songs become repetitive. Sigrid has the flair for merging music and emotion, but the music doesn't make quite a full impact on me, and the album becomes a big letdown because I feel Sigrid has the potential to do so much more.

MetalmindStats (responding to Seanchan): I'm not sure I entirely agree with this, certainly at least in as much as Sucker Punch feels a lot less manufactured to me than I'd expect from those comparisons. Perhaps that's simply because I seem to like it more than most of us do, though.

FoolFantastic: I've been slacking off with my comments, but I do want to say that, of the handful of albums I have had no exposure to before their week, Sucker Punch has been my favorite. It's very much a modern pop album and can't escape a ton of easy comparisons, but it's still solidly good throughout. Other artists have been referenced, but the one I kept thinking of is Olivia Rodrigo - and this gets the benefit of having released first.

ZaziGuado: I think what helps make Sigrid stand out is that while she sings about heartbreak (as all pop artists do), she does it without a ton of angst. It's a manner of "yeah this sucks but onwards and upwards", y'know?

Seanchan (responding to MetalmindStats): I should clarify that I'm not making any judgement on talent versus those late 90s artists. Certainly there is many times only a tangential relationship between talent and popularity/success. I don't know if Sigrid is also the songwriter for her music like Lorde or Swift. It's not something I usually pay attention to, though people usually let you know when the pop singer is also the songwriter.

I guess my feeling is that Sucker Punch isn't anything..."special". I'm not super big on Lorde but I know she's held in high regard for that general time of pop. I think Future Nostalgia is likely to stand the test of time and be regarded as a classic of the era. I could totally be wrong about Sigrid/Sucker Punch though! Who knows!

I hate that this all makes me sound much more negative than my feelings on the album. I've not listened to next week's album yet but I'm skeptical that I will enjoy it more than this one.

Sucker Punch track ranking

12. Business Dinners (Track #10)
Score: 29 (Average Rank: 10.1/12)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#6)
Biggest Detractor(s): ZaziGuado, Seanchan, Snake5555555555 (#12)

11. Level Up (Track #6)
Score: 37 (Average Rank: 9.4/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, HBJDubs, BlueCrystalTear, MetalmindStats (#12)

10. Basic (Track #3)
Score: 54 (Average Rank: 8/12)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): FoolFantastic, Johnbobb (#12)

Johnbobb: okay this one I did dislike

9. Sight of You (Track #7)
Score: 55 (Average Rank: 7.7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): VeryInsane (#12)

8. Never Mine (Track #11)
Score: 59 (Average Rank: 7.5/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): MetalmindStats (#10)

7. Dynamite (Track #12)
Score: 74 (Average Rank: 6.1/12)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#10)

6. In Vain (Track #8)
Score: 77 (Average Rank: 6/12)
Biggest Fan(s): BlueCrystalTear (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#11)

5. Mine Right Now (Track #2)
Score: 82 (Average Rank: 5.5/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Snake5555555555 (#10)

4. Don't Feel Like Crying (Track #5)
Score: 89 (Average Rank: 4.8/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, ZaziGuado (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): FoolFantastic (#10)

3. Sucker Punch (Track #1)
Score: 92 (Average Rank: 4.7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#10)

2. Don't Kill My Vibe (Track #9)
Score: 94 (Average Rank: 4.5/12)
Biggest Fan(s): ZaziGuado, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#10)

1. Strangers (Track #4)
Score: 108 (Average Rank: 3.7/12)
Biggest Fan(s): FoolFantastic, VeryInsane (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear (#10)

My choices this week are my top 3* albums of 2022 (*my actual #3 is not eligible since the band shares a violinist with my #1). The top 2 both look likely to crack my all-time top 50, so this has been a very good year for me. Unfortunately, all three of these choices have their positive and negative aspects in regards to this game.

BCNRs Ants From Up There: If I had to make a bold prediction, in a few years this will be treated like this generations Funeral, a sweeping epic that seemingly defies genre. Right now, this gets lumped into the post-rock category, but I think that has more to do with the obvious influences of their debut album. Its already looking to crack my top 10 favorite albums, which has not been done since Kendrick Lamar released To Pimp a Butterfly back in 2015. The problem being that, with the way it transcends easy genre categorization, its difficult to put into words what makes this so special.

Lets first consider the elephant in the room for those aware of the record BCNRs lead vocalist left the group a week before this album came out citing unbearable anxiety over performing. This is ultimately a breakup album, and one that finds a way to capture indescribable emotions with complex sounds. Yet this is far from a downer outside of one particular track everything here feels larger than life.

Pros: absolutely one of the best albums ever made
Cons: the complexity of its sound meant it took me a dozen listens to really get it

Sample song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqy6WPSfZSA

Big Thiefs Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You: Of these three, this is the most immediately accessible album on a sonic level this is a rather straightforward indie folk rock album. Unlike the two previous folk albums we have covered, the notable element here is that every track feels like it is drawing from a distinct part of the genre few tracks sound anything alike. The only problem here is that this is Big Thief doing their very own take on The White Album 20 tracks over the course of 80 minutes with unpredictable stylistic shifts. But unlike the White Album, every track is legitimately great (hence it cracking my all-time top 50).

Pros: the most accessible sound this week
Cons: 20 tracks and 80 minutes long

Sample song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnatkV_92Bw

black midis Hellfire: The harshest of the three choices RateYourMusic categorizes this as Brutal Avant-Prog. Basically, imagine the most violent Prog Rock album known to man. Back when we did Avenged Sevenfold, I admitted to not caring for mainstream metal because it sells itself on a certain level of aggression that doesnt actually feel that aggressive to me. This fulfills that aggressive desire, an album of pure chaos and destruction. It also takes several detours from that harshness. While my first two cracked my top 50, this is looking to land closer to my 300-400 range still great but a fair step down (but one I suspect certain others here might love even more than I do).

Pros: the sound should appeal to those who prefer harder music, also shorter than the other two
Cons: the sound will almost certainly turn away a few regulars

Sample song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuCUCb2jn9Q

Tag to listen later. I only remember the first four songs on this track list so we'll see how the rest of the album holds up!

1: The Perfect Fan
2: Back to Your Heart
3: I Want It That Way
4: Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
5: Don't Wanna Lose You Now
6: Larger Than Life
7: The One
8: I Need You Tonight
9: No One Else Comes Close
10: Spanish Eyes
11: It's Gotta Be You
12: Don't Want You Back

I like this album a fair amount, though I have nothing particularly interesting to say about it. I at least care enough to be on record liking it, which is something?

First listen done.

This album is closing in on 25 years old!!! As if I needed another indicator of my increasing slide into middle age.

It's amusing to me how we can unironically (at least I think the nom was unironic?) cover an album like Millennium or Spice. Could you ever imagine our late 20s-late 30s selves EVER wanting to cover stuff like that back during it's time period? You would be a pariah among your friend group.

Millennium is probably the absolute apex of that late 90s boy band / TRL era. The hits from this album were inescapable back in the day. Especially if you're someone like me who had sisters who were directly in the Backstreet Boys demographic. So I've heard this album before, though I didn't remember much other than those initial few songs.

My impressions? This is okay. The more upbeat singles are catchy enough but most of the slower, more ballad-like songs weren't doing much for me.

After that first listen I went back to listen to their self titled debut. I realized that THAT was the Backstreet Boys album I was more familiar with (again, SISTERS). It's the album that contains Everybody, that one Backstreet Boys song that you were allowed to say "the Backstreet Boys suck but that one's kind of okay".

What's crazy to me is that Backstreet Boys first album was 1996 and it was 3 years before Millennium came out in 1999. Maybe it took time for them to get momentum going, as I don't remember when they had their breakout single. But that seems like a crazy long time to come up with a follow up, even owing for the slower pace of culture back then.

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Re the Sucker Punch conversation, I would like to clarify that 'manufactured' was the descriptor I used to contrast for lack of a better way to put it. I think a more ideal way to put my point would be that it feels like Sigrid and her team made that album to realize her vision first and foremost, rather than to reach the big time above all. I do agree that it's pretty much another solid contemporary pop album, as opposed to something spectacular a la Future Nostalgia and Melodrama (not that the latter's particularly alike).

Anyways, that discussion actually segues decently into this week's ...transparently commercial effort. Maybe you all would have expected me to enjoy it, especially if I hadn't said anything last week, but as of now, I'm not sure I'll bother with my standard three spins. Incidentally, we were tackling Spice at this exact time last year, which I feel is a far better example of designed-to-succeed pop, at least at the moment.

Sigrid was too difficult for me to rate - I found a couple songs to be catchy, the rest just didn't grab me, and I couldn't really order the tracks. Maybe I could have given my top two and 'cheated' on the remaining songs and ordered them close to how it looked like everyone else ranked them, but eh. So I guess I'll just say I thought Sucker Punch was the best song on the album and the rest probably close enough to everyone else's order.

something like 1. Sucker Punch 2. Mine Right Now 3+. Couldn't really rank!

The week before Sigrid was interesting and I wish I had been able to rank! I had some stuff come up recently but things are calming down a bit. Just in time for... Backstreet Boys. lol

I will probably give this a spin solely for future Rank the Album purposes but I don't feel like putting in any more effort than that.

If you told me there was a mockumentary of the Boy Band / teen pop scene and this was the intentionally comical and terrible soundtrack for it, I'd believe it. I took a minute to see what their first album is like, and it's better because they ripped off better material to make it. It's rare that I will put down music that I don't like (these days) and I know BSB is an easy target, but yikes.

Larger Than Life - This is a 3/10 song and it is by far the best song on the album
I Want It That Way - Really just makes me think of all the atrocious crude parodies of the song. It's a bad song plagued with even worse memories of unacceptable external bits. Somehow it's the second best thing on the album.
Don't Want You Back
Back to Your Heart
Don't Wanna Lose You Now
Spanish Eyes
No One Else Comes Close
Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
The Perfect Fan
It's Gotta Be You
I Need You Tonight
The One

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Genuinely curious if the person who nominated this is going to rank it

LiquidOshawott posted...

Genuinely curious if the person who nominated this is going to rank it

They haven't participated since Guns n Roses nearly three months ago.

Like, when we did Spice, it was at least by group consensus during our initial rules, so it was a funny oddball choice. This, on the other hand, was essentially forced onto us by someone who has barely participated. It really rubs me the wrong way for someone to do this while not bothering to check out anyone else's choices. Obviously, there are other people in the cycle who aren't really participating, but I think others would largely vouch for their choices.

Just looking at RYM, I think the lowest album we tackled before was Avenged Sevenfold with a 2.80/5 average (Spice has a 2.88). Millennium is all the way down at a 2.33. That's a massive drop.

For what it's worth, I've liked "I Want It That Way" for years now & have always been mildly curious about the album it came from, so I'm glad this album got chosen. It's not a favorite or anything, but it's something I've wanted an excuse to listen to and generally enjoyed my time with, so I'm content.

IMO, we have a bit of a recurring problem with getting non-regulars to show up beyond their weeks (or at all if they don't have weeks of their own), though maybe I'm merely still sad Goodbye Yellow Brick Road lacked any crossover appeal. On that note, while what we have and what we've seen this week don't feel great to me, I really don't think the selection's disingenuous or anything like that - and I think multiple of us will wind up liking Millennium besides its nominator, at least. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about isolating RYM scores as indicative of an issue when Avenged Sevenfold has at least reached our top eight in Rank the Albums Volume 3.

If it is indeed a problem in need of a solution, however, perhaps we could impose a new rule kicking out users from the queue if they don't show up to rank their album? This would be on the basis that a user who nominated an album should theoretically know it well enough to throw together a five-minute track ranking even if that's all they have the time for, though I worry about the lack of leniency that would allow for schedules and memory and the like. Also, I personally haven't known two of my three albums well enough to rank their tracks on impulse, for what that's worth.

...In fact, since it more-or-less relates to the above proposal, I should say now that I'll probably be unable to make the first Acclaimed Music Bot week (which of course, I was a major supporter of) due to a planned trip.

~~~

I went back thinking surely I won't find this as bad the second time around, right? - and indeed, it wasnt nearly, though that's perhaps largely by design.

1. Back to Your Heart - An actually pretty chorus stranded in its parent album's typical polish and samey-ness.
2. Larger Than Life
3. The Perfect Fan
4. I Want It That Way
5. Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
6. Spanish Eyes
7. Dont Wanna Lose You Now
8. The One
9. No One Else Comes Close
10. Dont Want You Back
11. I Need You Tonight
12. Its Gotta Be You - It's gotta be a brand-new contender for my least favorite song listened to as part of Rank the Tracks.

Larger Than Life - I legitimately like this song, like a lot!
I Want It That Way
Show Me The Meaning Of Being Lonely
It's Gotta Be You
The One
Back To Your Heart
I Need You Tonight
Don't Wanna Lose You Now
Spanish Eyes
Don't Want You Back
No One Else Comes Close
The Perfect Fan

Could be the nostalgia speaking, but this album definitely shows why the singles were the singles and the rest were not.

I'm really curious what people will think of black midi

Silent Shout, Third, and now Hellfire have me convinced I should just be nominating the harshest non-metal I know every time

Up

1. Larger Than Life
2. I Want It That Way
3. Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
4. The One
5. It's Gotta Be You
6. No One Else Comes Close
7. The Perfect Fan
8. Back to Your Heart
9. Don't Want You Back
10. Don't Wanna Lose You Now
11. I Need You Tonight
12. Spanish Eyes

It was nice revisiting this album in full after so long. The singles are just as fun as I remember them, the rest of the album is kinda forgettable.

I don't usually pay attention to producers, but Max Martin really has some insane credits. He wrote seven of the songs here and, surprise, they're the better half. This guy has had 25 #1 hits and feels like a connective thread of popular music since the late 90s - from Britney Spears, NSYNC, and Backstreet Boys through tons of Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, and The Weeknd hits. Backstreet Boys are absolutely a manufactured product, but the people doing that manufacturing know what they are doing.

But mainstream pop like this really only works in short bursts and listening through a full album borders on unbearable. But, hey, not my least favorite of the albums we have covered!

my ranking:
I Want It That Way
Larger Than Life
It's Gotta Be You
Don't Want You Back
The One
Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
Don't Wanna Lose You Now
The Perfect Fan
I Need You Tonight
No One Else Comes Close
Back to Your Heart
Spanish Eyes

It's stunning to me just how un-fun this album is. It's just so many schmaltzy, slow ballads. I know BSB were considered the more "mature" boy band compared to NSYNC but jeez... I had to flip through their first album again, and it's got more upbeat fun songs, as well as the better slow ballads. Still a bunch of filler there too but it would have been a better choice, IMO.

(I'll post a ranking tomorrow after subjecting myself to a 3rd listen.)

MetalmindStats posted...

If it is indeed a problem in need of a solution, however, perhaps we could impose a new rule kicking out users from the queue if they don't show up to rank their album?

I think that, to maintain their spot in the queue, users should have to show up for more than just their week. I see people on here that I haven't seen rank jack shit in a while. Or even post comments. I've been pretty disengaged from this as of late (this week is no exception), and yet I still try to make time to give albums a listen at minimum. That counts for something.

I think that users should have to submit a ranking at minimum three times during a cycle - as in, between each of their nominations - to keep their slot in the queue. This can be dropped to two if this disqualifies too many people. Just looking at the queue... I can count at least six people still in the queue I hardly ever see participate at this juncture. Ones who probably only do their own weeks, and don't even bother to comment otherwise.

Also, gotta say that I admire TheArkOfTurus for being fucking honest and being asked to be taken off the queue due to a lack of time/energy/desire, as well as Jesse Custer for requesting he be skipped this cycle for likely similar reasons. If my commitment dropped off even further than it has, I may request the same in the future (not my next one, which I've already discussed my choices for). I expect to get a ranking in tomorrow - may listen tonight depending on how late volleyball goes (may be over in 15 minutes, may be another hour - who knows? It's volleyball!) - but if I don't, I'm sorry.

Of course if we were to remove people from the queue right now, that would kinda ruin my thought to do a Christmas album the week leading up to the holiday, wouldn't it? I think we need to put some people on notice: Rank albums that aren't yours, or you lose your spot, and you can't get it back until you show a desire to be active at least once a month. I get having a life. But we know albums two weeks out, so if you wanna submit an early ranking, you can.

I don't want to be too restrictive on who can nominate - I just think the combo of not really participating and also choosing what will obviously be a controversial theme is an odd mix.

Which, I've been contemplating an alternative method for nominations, which maybe I could alternate between the current method and this other idea. Maybe every other cycle, instead of everyone getting a week, everyone gets a single nomination for a three-way vote. That way, people have to choose albums they think will beat out other's choices. This will stop what sometimes feels like forced weeks. Especially if we start alternating between these two methods, this second format would be quicker while still keeping our own personal weeks as we do now. I just think having a little more competition would be good for this.

FoolFantastic posted...

Maybe every other cycle, instead of everyone getting a week, everyone gets a single nomination for a three-way vote. That way, people have to choose albums they think will beat out other's choices. This will stop what sometimes feels like forced weeks.

I don't like this. How would people discover new music this way? We'll just get a bunch of nominees with big singles that people recognize because those are the ones that win polls. I would expect "classic" albums from artists everybody recognizes would dominate anything newer with more limited appeal. People would probably just pull from the Acclaimed Music Bot list anyway, and the three people whose choices are up would all just vote for their own nomination, thus giving the power to everyone else. This kinda takes away the point. This project isn't really about judging which tracks are best - it's about appreciating music, both from a standpoint of artistic appreciation by more intent listening and a discovery perspective. I mean, I wouldn't have made a Sunspot fan out of Seanchan without this, now would I?

I also like making thematic choices, like me doing extremely indie stuff that people would have never otherwise experienced, or my upcoming Christmas theme. We wouldn't be able to have something timely like that with something completely randomized. At the same time, we also wouldn't get a boy band week from someone who's hardly participated. Is that a trade-off? Possibly.
~~~
Anyway, we swept their asses in volleyball, so I got a listen in! YouTube is being obnoxious and playing a political ad before each song; usually ads only play every other song (I listen to these incognito so the artists get ad revenue, unless I own the album, and so some of them don't appear in my history... like this one), so... ugh.

(Below paragraphs for next week's topic)
...and yeah, I only needed to do one. There are some legitimately good songs here but it gets redundant, and doesn't really offer that deeper appreciation I mentioned. It's just shallow boy band pop that makes the girls go crazy. Some of these try different things - some work, some don't. But there's a reason why I only remembered the first four songs: Only one other was a sweeping ballad that really worked for me.

I like my ballads and all, but this album was too rife with them, and the fact that they're ALL centered on vocal harmonies kind of takes away from the heartstrings being pulled. A lot of great ballads were written by the performers - and someone who's singing their heart out of their chest like that puts more emotion into it. Yeah, the harmonies are great here, but they make some of the songs devoid of emotion, which can't compare to one guy singing about the woman who completes him. Each dude here is thinking of somebody different, and they didn't write these songs for the most part so it's much less personal. Like the closer could've had a lot more impact had the same harmonies not happened eight times earlier on. Why not have a different guy take lead vocals

1. I Want It That Way
2. It's Gotta Be You
3. Back to Your Heart
4. Larger Than Life
5. Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
6. I Need You Tonight
7. The Perfect Fan
8. The One
9. Don't Wanna Lose You Now
10. Spanish Eyes
11. Don't Want You Back
12. No One Else Comes Close

I guess I can use this to test out my new headphones I'm getting tomorrow.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I don't like this. How would people discover new music this way? We'll just get a bunch of nominees with big singles that people recognize because those are the ones that win polls. I would expect "classic" albums from artists everybody recognizes would dominate anything newer with more limited appeal. People would probably just pull from the Acclaimed Music Bot list anyway, and the three people whose choices are up would all just vote for their own nomination, thus giving the power to everyone else. This kinda takes away the point. This project isn't really about judging which tracks are best - it's about appreciating music, both from a standpoint of artistic appreciation by more intent listening and a discovery perspective. I mean, I wouldn't have made a Sunspot fan out of Seanchan without this, now would I?

I also like making thematic choices, like me doing extremely indie stuff that people would have never otherwise experienced, or my upcoming Christmas theme. We wouldn't be able to have something timely like that with something completely randomized. At the same time, we also wouldn't get a boy band week from someone who's hardly participated. Is that a trade-off? Possibly.

That's why I suggested alternating between the two formats - ~20ish weeks of our usual format, ~7ish weeks of this competitive format. You are probably correct that this would push people to choose more obvious choices during that 7 week period - but that's the point. I feel we've been leaning a little too hard into more obscure personal picks, and we'll still be spending 75% of our time doing those personal weeks with my suggestion. I would also likely remove the AM Bot if we did this, since that was more of a band-aid while this feels more authentic in representing our own idea of the classics.

Another suggestion, as an alternative to going 20 weeks and then 7 weeks, would be to integrate the two cycles. As in, we could do 3 personal weeks in a row, then a single competitive week, then 3 more personal weeks, and so on. We would have a 27 week cycle instead of a 21 week cycle, but everyone would have 1 guaranteed album among their choices and a chance at a second within each cycle. So that would look something like:
Johnbobb
VeryInsane
FoolFantastic
3 randomly determined users
Seanchan
Giggsalot
RyoCaliente
3 randomly determined users

I think having one guaranteed competitive match each month would help - I like exploring new music, but it starts to be too much if we have several unknown records in a row. I occasionally need a breather week where it's something familiar that I can take a deeper look at.

If I did use this idea, I would want to start it after Raetsel's next week (as MetalmindStats was the first in our user cycle when we transitioned, I think, and it's only fair to finish out the current cycle). The personal cycle would remain the same, but I would randomize the competitive cycle each time so different users face off.

My two cents as somebody who participated regularly and then fell off:

I don't think the point of the series was to discover new, obscure music. I tried to keep up at first when we switched to giving people a week to their own to nominate, and I think there is room for weeks like that, but when I moved to a house and my child was born, it was really hard to find the time to give a dedicated listen to a brand new album every single week.

Sometimes it's good to visit the critically acclaimed stuff. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours was one of the most popular weeks if memory serves. I have a huge blind spot in popular albums for the 80s as well, so it was nice to familiarize myself with such an album that impacted music so much.

I try to participate, but it's hard to find the time with how my life is currently. If an album I'm familiar with pops up, I'll attempt to find a ranking but that hasn't happened for awhile. I like the idea of introducing something similar to how when this first started out where we try to nominate an album we think others will want to rank as well rather than nominate our favorite albums and try and get opinions on it. Currently I've been trying to split the difference between those two thought processes, but I always expect the known choice to win. I was super surprised the Grimes didn't win the vote over Sigrid and think it would've been a better week had Art Angels been the album we ranked.

This was just a stream of consciousness so I'll just end it by saying I don't want to take this too seriously so whatever happens, happens. I will continue to try and participate whenever I reach the intersection of time allowed and familiarity with that week's choice.

FoolFantastic posted...

I like exploring new music, but it starts to be too much if we have several unknown records in a row. I occasionally need a breather week where it's something familiar that I can take a deeper look at.

Which is what balances this out. Like I said, I like using this to discover things I may have missed or to appreciate the musical craftsmanship, even of records I already love (i.e. Guns N Roses). If you're going to do it the way you describe, and you're going to start this in January, I have no qualms with it. I much prefer the integrated cycling - you can engineer it so someone will never be featured in a poll twice in a row as well. I like it with it switching up as it goes. This way, we can balance things out. It won't be seven straight weeks of albums I have heard songs from before and then 20 weeks of albums that are for the most part new to me. I think having seven weeks of the more known albums in a row would strongly encourage people to nominate more obscure things for their personal week. I also would like to suggest that you don't say which user nominated what in those polls - because that way, people will vote for the music as opposed to the user.

I can submit a choice alongside my three albums for 12/18. But unlike with those three, which are pretty well-known at this point, I'm not gonna say what it is (I do have something in mind).

ZaziGuado posted...

I don't think the point of the series was to discover new, obscure music.

It's not just that. Like I said, it's to both appreciate musical craftsmanship as well as discover new things - things that may not necessarily be obscure, mind you. Having a variety between things you know vs. things you don't is huge. This is also why I vary up what my nominations are. My first set of three was early '80s classics by well-known artists (Phil Collins, Queen, and Foreigner). My second set of three was as indie as indie gets, with the intent for people to discover local bands I enjoy. My third set is based solely on timeliness (thanks for letting me keep that, FF) and for something fun and cheery. My fourth set... well, we'll see what happens when that comes up in July or whenever.

P.S. Congrats on the little one, btw.

Well the headphones sound good

I Want It That Way
The One
Larger Than Life
Don't Want You Back
Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
Don't Wanna Lose You Now
I Need You Tonight
No One Else Comes Close
The Perfect Fan
Spanish Eyes
Back to Your Heart
It's Gotta Be You (Probably my least favorite song we've done and it's not close)

FoolFantastic posted...

As in, we could do 3 personal weeks in a row, then a single competitive week, then 3 more personal weeks, and so on.

I like the way this sounds. Having one special competitive week a month for variety sounds like a fair compromise & potentially interesting. I don't like the sound of doing that multiple weeks in a row, but spreading it out is a fun experiment.

And while it's still a long way before my next pick and I really don't know what I'm going to do with it, I suppose I'll ask now while we're discussing rules: what counts as an album for this series/what types of albums aren't allowed? For example, purely as a hypothetical, could I nominate the soundtrack to a musical -if- said album had deep personal significance to me & it had a standard number of tracks/length?

Such albums tend to be credited to "Cast of [Musical]" instead of a specific artist, so I see the reason to disqualify such things on a technicality. Also a "literally no one wants you to nominate this, you idiot" standpoint. BUT such things are legally defined as albums and if I were to make a list of 'albums most important to me' there definitely would be one on it. I don't want to discuss which one or why, but think along the lines of the one-disc version of the theatrical release of Phantom of the Opera.

Not saying I would nominate said hypothetical album, as there's a million reasons not to & it's way too far in the future to guess what I'll want to do in January, but if I'm explicitly forbidden from nominating it then you may want to make that more... explicit.

[For what it's worth, I'd have two relatively normal albums alongside it & wouldn't be psychotic enough to force a musical week onto an audience that would not approve of it. ...Also i can't think of three musicals I'd even want to discuss in this context, but that's neither here nor there.]

We have already done Hamilton before, so musicals are fine.

I think my main (perhaps not explicit but no one has tried yet?) rule is against greatest hits compilations - basically, the recordings need to be specific to the album.

FoolFantastic posted...

We have already done Hamilton before, so musicals are fine.

Oh yeah. That's still my favorite album we covered, so I really should have remembered that precedent... alright, that gives me some options to play with, thank you.

And I figured compilation albums were out... it's bothersome how many great songs only wind up on Film Soundtracks or Greatest Hits albums, but there's not much that can be done about that & even I think including them would be kinda lame.

yeah even some of the best boy band albums are still like 40% good 60% not so much, but the good stuff is just a joy to listen to. Still in the NSYNC >>>> BSB camp though

1. Larger Than Life - Look, IWITW and Everybody are always the go-to Backstreet hype songs, but for me it's always been Larger Than Life
2. I Want It That Way
3. It's Gotta Be You
4. Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
5. Don't Want You Back
6. Don't Wanna Lose You Now
7. Back to Your Heart
8. The One
9. I Need You Tonight
10. No One Else Comes Close
11. Spanish Eyes
12. The Perfect Fan

Hamilton is great, but I hate ranking something with so many tracks. It's too much of a chore and stops being enjoyable. There's a reason I don't nominate anything over an hour long - because I only get one or two listens to such albums.

I think a movie soundtrack is fine for the same reason. Sure, a lot of movie songs end up on the artist's next album, but so what? We can do that album too since it's just one song that repeats instead of several. Really, the only limitation should be no "Greatest Hits" type albums, since that can exclude that artist from being ranked again entirely.

While I enjoyed Hamilton, I'm not a big fan of covering musicals here. A musical is meant to be watched, especially if you're not familiar with it.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Hamilton is great, but I hate ranking something with so many tracks. It's too much of a chore and stops being enjoyable. There's a reason I don't nominate anything over an hour long - because I only get one or two listens to such albums.

Also this.

In regards to changing the nomination process, the 3 user week, 1 competitive week thing sounds good to me. I'm all for mixing it up and keeping things interesting.

I'll listen to anything, so I'm not too concerned about people's choices being too obscure. Honestly, my personal "hit to miss" rate probably isn't too different between artists I'd never heard of versus the "classics". I do think we've trended a little more obscure since Cycle 1 but it hasn't been egregious.

I've thought it's a little weird that we haven't yet covered artists like Led Zeppelin, Queen, David Bowie, The Beach Boys, The Rolling Stones, Stevie Wonder, etc. The thing is, for me, while I've heard many of their various singles, I've never actually listened to a full album from any of those artists! Surely I'm not the only one....right....?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I think a movie soundtrack is fine for the same reason.

I like soundtracks, but wouldn't it be weird? Like, take the soundtrack to the 2003 Daredevil film: 20 songs by 19 different artists. Allegedly that album is the first time any of those songs were released (Evanescence's debut album would be released a month later) so technically they're all new songs... but putting aside the length, would a chaotic mash of 19 different artists be in the spirit of the topic?

I certainly wouldn't complain about it, but a sampling of various artists just feels odd to me.

For film music, I would want it to either be the score or a completely original soundtrack. I would treat a licensed soundtrack the same as a greatest hits album.

An album with multiple artists would be fine, as long as the tracks are made for that album.

Seanchan posted...

I've thought it's a little weird that we haven't yet covered artists like Led Zeppelin, Queen, David Bowie, The Beach Boys, The Rolling Stones, Stevie Wonder, etc. The thing is, for me, while I've heard many of their various singles, I've never actually listened to a full album from any of those artists! Surely I'm not the only one....right....?

I've heard Pet Sounds (Beach Boys) & a few Bowie albums, but I haven't heard an album from the others you've named.

1. I Want It That Way
2. Larger Than Life
3. The One
4. Back to Your Heart
5. Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
6. It's Gotta Be You
7. Don't Wanna Lose You Now
8. Don't Want You Back
9. I Need You Tonight
10. No One Else Comes Close
11. The Perfect Fan
12. Spanish Eyes

Already talked about this one a bit, so my last remarks are that this one is more boring than it is bad.

Larger Than Life
I Want It That Way
It's Gotta Be You
Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely
The One
Don't Wanna Lose You Now
Back to Your Heart
No One Else Comes Close
I Need You Tonight
The Perfect Fan
Spanish Eyes
Don't Want You Back

Boy the quality here fell off a cliff fast. The top 4 are head and shoulders above everything else. The One is decent. Everything else is relatively lacking. But damn those top 4 are bangers. Too many ballads, not enough peppy fun stuff.

For my own purposes while making the next topic tomorrow morning, I feel like I need to include the full schedule. I think, if anyone new signs up, they will be added to the end of the current cycle (...as long as it's 4+ weeks away)

I drew match-ups for the competitive weeks - since there are only 20 people signed up, two people get to have a one-on-one match at the end

Current Cycle:
10/02: Johnbobb (Slipknot - Vol. 3: The Subliminal Verses)
10/09: VeryInsane (Nas - Illmatic)
10/16: FoolFantastic
10/23: Seanchan
10/30: Giggsalot
11/06: RyoCaliente
11/13: darkx
11/20: neonreaper
11/27: Great_Paul
12/04: jcgamer107
12/11: ChichiriMuyo
12/18: BlueCrystalTear

Future cycle (dates subject to change if anyone new signs up before 11/27):
12/25: MetalmindStats
1/1: HBJDubs
1/8: Raetsel_Lapin
1/15: BlueCrystalTear/darkx/neonreaper
1/22: Steiner
1/29: Snake5555555555
2/5: Jesse_Custer
2/12: RyoCaliente/VeryInsane/FoolFantastic
2/19: ZaziGuado
2/26: firefdr
3/4: Johnbobb
3/11: Steiner/ChichiriMuyo/Great_Paul
3/18: VeryInsane
3/25: FoolFantastic
4/1: Seanchan
4/8: Johnbobb/ZaziGuado/jcgamer107
4/15: Giggsalot
4/22: RyoCaliente
4/29: darkx
5/6: Snake5555555555/Raetsel_Lapin/Seanchan
5/13: neonreaper
5/20: Great_Paul
5/27: jcgamer107
6/3: Giggsalot/MetalmindStats/Jesse_Custer
6/10: ChichiriMuyo
6/17: BlueCrystalTear
6/24: HBJDubs/firefdr

This isn't a good album, but I don't hate it as much as I would have when it was new. There are a couple of kinda worthy tracks but even the good ones tend to outlive their welcome. The bad ones - they might as well not exist. They really could have cut this down to a 10-15 minute EP and it would have been better, and considering the rabid fanbase at the time, they still could have sold it at the price of a full album.

1 The One - I actually like this, for two minutes. If they let it end when it should have I would say it's a good song.
2 It's Gotta Be You - Just plain, dumb, dance fuel. I respect it for what it is.
3 Larger Than Life - Goofy, cheeseball, kiddie such and such. As with most of the album, I'd respect it more if it was a bit shorter.
4 Show Me The Meaning of Being Lonely - everything about this, title included, is too long and boring.
5 Don't Want You Back
6 Back to Your Heart - Oof, the cheese. Yet another song I was ready to be done with 2 minutes in.
7 I Need You Tonight
8 No One Else Comes Close
9 The Perfect Fan
10 Don't Wanna Lose You Now
11 Spanish Eyes
12 I want it that way - I wish I could purge this from my memory