Board 8 > What is the most famous fictional character of this list?

(+) Yeah! (+)

swordz9 posted...

I know IP isnt the end all be all, but Dragon Ball is literally worth more than Batman and Superman and not far off from being worth as much as Spider-Man, Harry Potter and the MCU in general. Anime is niche yeah, but Dragon Ball is more known worldwide than I think most people give it credit for.

Yup. Anime is niche but Dragonball has ascended beyond the limits of general anime.

Mickey Mouse just naturally goes where Disney goes. Being the face of the company means he pops up in a lot of random places even if he doesn't have anything of his own going on.

DBZ is a moneymaker but there's no way its general outreach goes as far as Spidey/Harry Potter/MCU. A lot of people who like DBZ will triple dip into anime, video games, merchandise.

Spider-Man and Harry Potter absolutely triple dip as well and theres no way you could believe otherwise. They have merchandise out the goddamn ass and people arent just buying the movies or the books/comics

Yeah, Dragon Ball may make more money than Batman or Superman, but surely you'd be crazy to try to argue Goku is more well known than either of them, so it's not a great indicator.

EDIT: Also important is that Batman, for instance, destroys Dragon Ball in pure general merchandise sales. Dragon Ball comes out on top due to having more video games and in general more avenues of revenue that are counted, but those are all avenues people are likely to double dip in, and thus don't indicate actual reach beyond the others.

is it time to say Spider-Man is the most famous comic book character yet

LeonhartFour posted...

is it time to say Spider-Man is the most famous comic book character yet

Also this is true

Every franchise double/triple-dips on revenue, but movie adaptations are where this is the least relevant. There's TONS of people who only go out and see the movie version of something and never spend another cent on it. DBZ has a weak movie presence, and its revenue is disproportionately weighted towards video games, which people are less likely to get without having already seen the original.

I can tell you Spider-Man isnt weighted towards the movies either because non-comic/game/tv/movie merchandise for Spider-Man is nearly double its movie value.

I really doubt even 50% of random people polled on the street would recognize Goku. In a younger crowd, sure, but you really have to get in the mindset of like 60 year olds here

Genuinely curious if Winnie the Pooh would be near Mickey level

KamikazePotato posted...

Every franchise double/triple-dips on revenue, but movie adaptations are where this is the least relevant. There's TONS of people who only go out and see the movie version of something and never spend another cent on it. DBZ has a weak movie presence, and its revenue is disproportionately weighted towards video games, which people are less likely to get without having already seen the original.

Well, right, this is what I was trying to get at. The general non-movie/video game/etc. merchandise sales for Batman, for instance, are much, much higher than Dragon Ball's. Dragon Ball makes up for it by crushing Batman in stuff like video games, which are likely to primarily be bought by people that are already into it. Being higher in the former (general merchandise) suggests wider reach than being higher in video games.

EDIT: Really, comparing Dragon Ball's general merchandise sales to most other things high on the list paints the picture, as it's considerably lower there than most of the higher IPs. Video game sales are what puts it above a lot of the things it's above.

swordz9 posted...

I can tell you Spider-Man isnt weighted towards the movies either because non-comic/game/tv/movie merchandise for Spider-Man is nearly double its movie value.

Franchises with the largest movie presence:

1. MCU - $25.174 billion
2. Star Wars - $10.316 billion
3. Harry Potter - $9.620 billion
4. Spider-Man - $9.601 billion
5. James Bond - $7.112 billion
6. Batman - $6.821 billion

So yes I would say Spidey does pretty well for himself at the box office, especially compared to DBZ's $837 million, which is going to be like 99% pre-existing fans.

LiquidOshawott posted...

Genuinely curious if Winnie the Pooh would be near Mickey level

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises

Every time I look at this list I'm shocked by how high Pooh is up on it.

DBs game revenue is likely skewed from mobile gaming. Dokkan alone has made like $3B of that $6B listed. Marvel Spider-Man alone outsold the top 5 best selling DB games combined and sold more than 4x the best DB game.

Spider-Mans box office is its second biggest thing and given how much is excluded from merchandise via other listings I can only assume Spider-Man toys is his #1 seller and its nearly double the box office. I mean theres no way its mugs or clothing at #1 surely.

Number of google search results:

Mario: 1,090,000,000
Superman: 358,000,000
Mickey Mouse: 171,000,000
Pikachu: 160,000,000
Garfield: 136,000,000
Sonic The Hedgehog: 130,000,000
Dracula: 90,900,000
Darth Vader: 80,300,000
Sherlock Holmes: 64,900,000
"King Arthur": 29,100,000

I did give the vote to superman based on these search results.

Mario is a little artificial, since there are a lot of Marios that are not the nintendo mario. (Searching for nintendo Mario narrows it down to 215 mil, "Super mario" in quotes is 122 mil, and not every mario game has the word super in it, so this is still very good, probably an overall #2, with a case for #1).

I think Pickachu very clearly rounds out the top 3 in terms of google pages. Pikachu is just not something that should show up in a non-pokemon related page for the most part.

I put quotes on King Arthur cause it's 700 mil without the quotes, so sites that just have both the word Arthur and King in them somewhere. By the way the top google search result for King Arthur is King Arthur baking, so LOL. Also, other stuff in quotes just does better than King Arthur in quotes. "Darth Vader" is 54 mil, "Sherlock Holmes" is 43 mil.

Mickey Mouse might be a little artificial here too--"Mickey Mouse" in quotes drops it to 75 mil. Probably not ahead of Pikachu.

Garfield is going to be inflated by it actually being a real name. There was literally a president named Garfield. Searching for pages that say Garfield and don't say president is still 113 mil, so that is promising. But searching for Garfield Cat is 24 mil, Garfield Cartoon 41 mil, Garfield comic 34 mil. So obviously not too bad, but I think on the weaker end. "Sherlock Holmes" in quotes is slightly ahead of Garfield with various highly related terms and no quotes.

Sonic without quotes is 716mil, but the #1 search result is the Sonics restaurant. Sonic the hedgehog without quotes is 130mil. "sonic the hedgehog" with quotes is 75mil. So...not bad, that is about what mickey mouse does under similar conditions (with quotes).

So...overall, at least in google hits, and adjusting for how broad the search is, trying to do like searches (comparing quote searches to quote searches, for example), I think it's roughly...

#1-#2 Superman, Mario
#3 Pikachu
#4-#6 Sonic, Mickey Mouse, Dracula
#7 Darth Vader
#8 Sherlock Holmes
#9 Garfield
#10 King Arthur

Leonhart4 posted...

I only see Minions when there's a movie coming out but I'm not going to act like they aren't super popular just because I'm not the target demographic

And I only see Mickey Mouse when there's a movie coming out... oh, wait. MM is just not that recognizable around the world anymore because he exists almost exclusively in merch and in Disney parks/tv stations. They haven't made a Mickey Mouse movie that wasn't direct to video in this millennium. The last couple of TV shows only broadcast on half a dozen stations worldwide and yes, you can get them on Disney+, but most people go to D+ for things they already know. An entire generation has grown up without a single MM movie, or even shorts before the movies or cameos. Let me repeat that, an entire generation has grown up with Mickey Mouse being a non-entity in their lives. The character just isn't that well known anymore, to the point where Disney World is actually removing the Mickey and Minnie signs at the entrance gates. Even Disney doesn't see the character as being the marketing machine it once was.

LeonhartFour posted...

is it time to say Spider-Man is the most famous comic book character yet

Yes. Spiderman is almost certainly #1. Spidey merch actually outsells all other comic book character merch combined.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

And I only see Mickey Mouse when there's a movie coming out... oh, wait. MM is just not that recognizable around the world anymore because he exists almost exclusively in merch and in Disney parks/tv stations. They haven't made a Mickey Mouse movie that wasn't direct to video in this millennium. The last couple of TV shows only broadcast on half a dozen stations worldwide and yes, you can get them on Disney+, but most people go to D+ for things they already know. An entire generation has grown up without a single MM movie, or even shorts before the movies or cameos. Let me repeat that, an entire generation has grown up with Mickey Mouse being a non-entity in their lives. The character just isn't that well known anymore, to the point where Disney World is actually removing the Mickey and Minnie signs at the entrance gates. Even Disney doesn't see the character as being the marketing machine it once was.

Their big merchandise line for 2022 is literally "Mickey Mouse: The Main Attraction."

EDIT: Also, they didn't remove the Mickey and Minnie sign because they're pushing them less, they removed it because there's going to be construction on an overpass. They removed other non-Mickey signs, too.

Winnie the Pooh and Hello Kitty belong on this list. Also, Disney Princesses. Though your winner is either Mickey or Pikachu.

You're right... they are indeed doing a sizeable push on MM merch that I was totally unaware of. It is still through Disney only so I don't know how big it will really be, but there it is. Unfortunately I feel like the same argument that was made about Goku applies here... it's just selling to the existing fans. You would have to be looking for that sort of thing to find it. They aren't doing anything about the fact that MM as a character is fading from the limelight on the broader scale. Maybe it's because they know the IP rights are coming to an end soon. It'll still be awhile before the most iconic imagery becomes public, of course, but once Steam Boat Willie is the property of the people that opens the floodgates.

Anagram posted...

I just dont accept that Snoopy is more recognizable than Garfield.

I feel like he is. Peanuts has always had a much bigger presence. I guess I don't know enough about their worldwide presence, but being from the country both of them originate from, I'm going to go with the one that stars in holiday specials that are shown on network television annually...and not just for a single holiday, either.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

You're right... they are indeed doing a sizeable push on MM merch that I was totally unaware of. It is still through Disney only so I don't know how big it will really be, but there it is. Unfortunately I feel like the same argument that was made about Goku applies here... it's just selling to the existing fans. You would have to be looking for that sort of thing to find it. They aren't doing anything about the fact that MM as a character is fading from the limelight on the broader scale. Maybe it's because they know the IP rights are coming to an end soon. It'll still be awhile before the most iconic imagery becomes public, of course, but once Steam Boat Willie is the property of the people that opens the floodgates.

The big difference between Mickey and Goku is that you either have to know Dragon Ball, or atleast that kind of anime, to know who Goku is. Goku has zero presence outside of that. You absolutely do not have to directly consume Mickey Mouse featured product to know who Mickey Mouse is. He transcends his medium far, far more. You dont have to have the most direct fans or sell the most merchandise to be famous. Its a helpful indicator, but its not the end all, be all. Mickey has been such a pop culture icon for so long that any reference to him would have to vanish off the face of the earth for dozens of years before people stop knowing who he is. I mean, hell, if you own a smart phone, youve probably seen an ad for one of the Disney mobile games, and almost all of them feature him almost front and center in advertising.

Mickey centered media has dropped in number over time, absolutely, but its still pretty much impossible not to see him in some form somewhere, even today.

EDIT: Hell, a Mickey Mouse toy was the top selling toy on Amazon for 2020.

I feel like Mickey is being grossly underestimated here

edit: for a little perspective on worldwide reach, I decided to check how many languages each character's Wikipedia article is available in. Obviously not perfect but I find it interesting.

Mickey Mouse: 152
Santa Claus: 102
Sherlock Holmes: 99
Garfield: 97
Spider-Man: 96
Superman: 93
King Arthur: 90
Mario: 84
Darth Vader: 79
Pikachu: 76
Dracula: 67
Sonic: 48
Snoopy: 40

MZero posted...

I feel like Mickey is being grossly underestimated here

I think people are sort of conflating recognizability with popularity without really meaning to. It's not that Mickey is the most popular character, or the most frequently appearing, or the one that people spend the most time thinking about. But his sheer degree of penetration, as the brand icon for the largest entertainment company in the world for many, many decades, is just unmatched. I don't think it's going to remain like this forever, but the generations haven't changed over enough yet for that to be true. Way too many 70+ year olds out there who will have no trouble recognizing Mickey but won't know whatever the hell else we're talking about, not to mention cross-culturally he's just fuckin everywhere. It won't be everyone, of course, but the number of characters who match his global penetration isn't many. I don't think he's a clear #1, because I do think some characters like Mario and Superman are still well within the conversation, and because I truly do not know the media landscape of too many countries to make a truly educated guess, but downplaying Mickey would be an error.

Jesus christ those numbers

I admit I might have been wrong
It's very surprising
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/0/9/AADUNGAADhtd.jpg

I was all-in on Santa last time this came up, and I don't regret it. With him out of the picture, I'd go...

Mouse > Mario = Superman > Pikachu > Garfield > (Snoopy) > Sherlock = Dracula > Sonic > Vader >> Arthur

ChichiriMuyo posted...

Let me repeat that, an entire generation has grown up with Mickey Mouse being a non-entity in their lives.

excuse me kingdom hearts is this generation

Also saying "Mickey is mostly just in parks" I think is hugely underestimating how central the Disney parks are to their brand. These things are the end all be all of tourist traps designed to cycle through 150+ million people per year. I think the conception that it's mostly Disney fans going to them is a relatively recent phenomenon, Disney's market strategy has been to make sure everyone in a rich country with disposable income is aware they can go to Disney World. Mickey, Mario, Pikachu, Sonic, etc. are literally things that were designed by international corporations for international appeal, and I'm pretty sure Mickey is still at the top. The other answers are pretty laughable. Besides Santa ofc who, let's be real, is just being hard carried by 2000 years of spreading Christianity.

Hello Kitty would an interesting pick for this as well I think.

Not #1 but I think she would beat some of these.

Maybe Im weird, but religion is probably the last thing Id think of for things associated with Santa. Id think of reindeer, elves, the North Pole, presents and even milk/cookies before Id think religion. Its definitely associated with him, but I honestly wonder how many other people would associate him with non-religious stuff these days especially with religion seeming to be in decline. At this point Id just associate old people with gray beards with Santa before Jesus/religion, but Ive never been from a church family or anything so maybe thats part of it

swordz9 posted...

Maybe Im weird, but religion is probably the last thing Id think of for things associated with Santa. Id think of reindeer, elves, the North Pole, presents and even milk/cookies before Id think religion. Its definitely associated with him, but I honestly wonder how many other people would associate him with non-religious stuff these days especially with religion seeming to be in decline. At this point Id just associate old people with gray beards with Santa before Jesus/religion, but Ive never been from a church family or anything so maybe thats part of it

Yeah I went to a Christian school and they discouraged Santa and wanted us to focus on Jesus and stuff. But I think he's saying Santa was originally spread throughout the world by missionaries and such

For that last thought I can agree thats how he got spread so much originally for sure.

Now Im actually curious how somebody like Hercules would register worldwide to people. The name is likely more recognizable than any kind of physical appearance though. Hes definitely had exposure through a lot of stuff and you could argue hes one of the oldest fictional superheroes out there who likely also inspired a lot of the modern fictional superheroes we know today too, but I think the lack of an immediately recognizable physical form of an kind keeps him lower than a lot of other figures for sure.

Maniac64 posted...

Hello Kitty would an interesting pick for this as well I think.

Not #1 but I think she would beat some of these.

I agree. Better pick than Goku (as well as some lower rungs of the list like King Arthur) for sure.

Yeah it's not that Santa is inherently religious but that Christmas is only as prevalent as it is because it was historically a Christian tradition and spread that way. It doesn't really matter if it still predominately Christian, religious concepts get absorbed into the secular mainstream all the time.

Mickey Mouse

Dracula was a real person and therefore should have been ineligible for the poll.
(King Arthur is contentious but was probably a poor choice regardless.)

Don't be silly. Dracula the vampire is as much a real person as Santa Claus. Both are characters that are very loosely based on historical figures.

And King Arthur isn't contentious, either. It would be generous to say he's as real as Dracula or Santa Claus, but for Arthur there is not even concensus on who he might be based on.

KingButz posted...

Don't be silly. Dracula the vampire is as much a real person as Santa Claus. Both are characters that are very loosely based on historical figures.

Wouldn't the Jesus Christ we know as of today fall under this same argument?