Board 8 > Board 8 Ranks: The Marvel Cinematic Universe (PHASE TWO!)

(+) Yeah! (+)

CasanovaZelos posted...

Everything else, I see some negatives (though I'll never understand the weird backlash against Black Panther) to hold them back.

I mean setting aside the racists, the backlash is basically just due to the extreme critical and awards love that Black Panther got. It does have some technical issues and some ropey elements in its third act (incidentally so does The Winter Soldier), which means that people can get distracted by that against the backdrop of that praise. In reality however, its not that Black Panther is overrated in terms of reviews and awards. Its that a lot of the other best superhero movies have been underrated in this regard.

red13n posted...

I don't see Guardians winning with how many people have been predicting 2 to fall since like second to last place.

In terms of ranking for me, the gap between GotG1 and GotG2 is easily the biggest for a film and its sequel, though I think The Avengers going into Age of Ultron is a bigger overall drop in quality. GotG1 is just that good.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

uh, how? iron man is loaded with the kind of quippy humor that became the trademark of the MCU.

Because it came first, and thats just it.

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Lightning Strikes posted...

Because it came first, and thats just it.

what do you mean?

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ZenOfThunder posted...

my actual favorite Marvel characters across all media:

1) Spider-Man
2) Taskmaster
3) Ant-Man (Hank Pym)
4) The Wasp (Janet Van Dyne)
5) Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze)
6) Beta Ray Bill
7) Nova (Richard Ryder)
8) Punisher (Frank Castle)
9) She-Hulk
10) Green Goblin (Norman Osborn)

I have weird taste in superheroes and I'm blanking on the others I like but the above is my barometer for good Marvel superhero

Some excellent tastes, mein freund. I'm likely still stuck in pre-2010s in terms of tastes, but my offering in this, in no particular order:

Cannonball
Hawkeye
Madrox
Magik
Nightcrawler
Rogue
Shadowcat
Spider-Man
Thing
Wolverine

Honorable Mentions:
Songbird
Laura Kinney
Cyclops
Jubilee
Magneto
Dr. Doom
Siryn
Vision
Flash Thompson
Blink
Daredevil
Valeria Richards
Iceman
Emma Frost
Doctor Octopus

Dishonorable Mention:
Beast - Once an easy, easy top five character, he's been more than problematic for the past decade or two.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

really don't get how you can say it's like "nolan's batman" or how people who dislike the MCU can think this is one of the best ones. would make way more sense for them to like the incredible hulk or something.

I just think the movie feels a lot more "serious" than your traditional Marvel movie. Like the subject matter feels a lot more down to earth and it feels like something that could actually happen in "the real world" not just random superhero stuff. Winter Soldier is fairly low on jokes but so is Iron Man, but Winter Soldier is more over the top action and has more ridiculous scenes like the elevator and Black Widow as a grandma and stuff.

Yeah RDJ is quippy but he's always quippy and it feels more normal in that movie. Like he's just a witty guy in everyday situations more than a guy who is having soft serves thrown at him so he can hit them back.

As for "I don't know how I could say people who dislike the MCU would like it" uhhh I say that because it's the pattern I notice among people I interact with I'm not making it up for an argument. So you'd have to ask them (Cap1/Winter Soldier and GotG are the others they tend to like more btw)

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Beast - Once an easy, easy top five character, he's been more than problematic for the past decade or two.

what did they do to beast? Im very out of the loop these days
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Lopen posted...

Yeah RDJ is quippy but he's always quippy and it feels more normal in that movie. Like he's just a witty guy in everyday situations more than a guy who is having soft serves thrown at him so he can hit them back.

i guess i don't see the difference with other MCU quippy stuff. like, i copied this from the IMDb quote section of the movie:

Tony Stark: Am I making you uncomfortable?
Virginia 'Pepper' Potts: Oh, no, I always forget to wear deodorant and dance with my boss in a room full of people I work with in a dress with no back.
Tony Stark: Well, you look great, you smell great. But I could fire you if that would take the edge off.
Virginia 'Pepper' Potts: I don't think you could tie your shoes without me.
Tony Stark: I'd make it a week.
Virginia 'Pepper' Potts: A week, really? What's your social security number?
Tony Stark: [he pauses]
Tony Stark: Five...
Virginia 'Pepper' Potts: [smiling] "Five?" You're missing just a couple of digits.
Tony Stark: Right, the other eight. Well, I have you for the other eight.

this entire exchange is nothing but an avalanche of MCU style quips. i think it's hard for a scene to get more "typical MCU" than this.

As for "I don't know how I could say people who dislike the MCU would like it" uhhh I say that because it's the pattern I notice among people I interact with I'm not making it up for an argument. So you'd have to ask them (Cap1/Winter Soldier and GotG are the others they tend to like more btw)

yeah, i phrased that poorly. i didn't mean to say you made it up for an argument, i meant to say "how can people who dislike the MCU say this is one of the best ones?" i totally get why they would like first avenger and winter soldier, those are plenty of different from the typical MCU style. i even get guardians of the galaxy - that one also has lots of quips, yes, but it still feels a lot more like a james gunn/troma movie (with an unusually high budget) than an MCU movie. don't get at all why they would like iron man so much, though.

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I think him having a rapport with his long term right hand woman/love interest is totally normal. I see nothing wrong with that scene you quoted

The reason imo MCU quippiness is generally a problem to people is it's done at inappropriate times that should be high tension or with characters that shouldn't be making jokes. You don't see Stark joking with Obidiah much at all for example

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

what did they do to beast? Im very out of the loop these days

He's less a jolly bouncing smart aleck who is an excellent friend, X-Man, Avenger, and more. He's more... scientist with great curiosities, arrogance, and hubris and dubious ethics and moral hypocrises.

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Lopen posted...

I think him having a rapport with his long term right hand woman/love interest is totally normal. I see nothing wrong with that scene you quoted

The reason imo MCU quippiness is generally a problem to people is it's done at inappropriate times that should be high tension or with characters that shouldn't be making jokes. You don't see Stark joking with Obidiah much at all for example

oh yeah, if their approach is "i like the jokes but they should just be made at appropriate times," i get it. iron man does work better than, say, age of ultron in that regard (or even homecoming imo).

for me, the problem with MCU humor is that i often just don't think the jokes are funny. like, that tony/pepper exchange isn't amusing in the least for me. i assume that's also eddv's problem, hence why he ranked this movie so low.

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I think Eddv's problem with Iron Man is he has SEETHING rdj hatred more than anything. You pattern that exact movie with Ed Norton as Iron Man and humor in the exact same spots and it's prob top 3 for him

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remember when Beast brought the 60s X-Men to the present without asking then kept thinking "oh god i wanna bang teenage jean"

what a weird time for the X-Men

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9. Black Panther
Total Score: 306

Jesse Custer 1
VengefulKaelee - 2
GavsEvans123 3
Maniac64 3
Red13n - 4
Eddv 5
Sheep007 5
HanOfTheNekos - 6
MetalDK 6
Raka Putra - 6
ScepterOfLove 6
Johnbobb 7
Mr Crispy - 7
Cybat - 8
Illuminatusbubu - 8
StifledSilence 8
CoolCly - 9
XIII Rocks - 9
ZenOfThunder 10
PrinceKaro 11
BetrayedTangy - 12
Corrik7 - 12
MetalmindStats 13
Paratroopa1 - 13
Anagram 14
Inviso 14
Lopen - 15
Mega Mana 15
Whiskey Nick 17
NBIceman - 19
Snake5555555555 19
TomNook - 19

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Jesse Custer
If theres such a thing as a perfect MCU film, this is it. Wakanda was brought to life with a stunning sense of believability, depicted as a technological utopia, but also as a warning against isolationist nationalism. And the film doesnt back down from addressing difficult issues that most blockbuster movies shy away from, such as the moral expectations of privileged nations to help those less fortunate. In fact, those issues are seamlessly integrated with the story arcs for the hero and villain of the film (I put villain in quotes because Killmonger is presented as such a complex and understandable character that it hardly does him justice to simply label him the villain).

Beyond the excellent concept and scripting for the film, Black Panther excels in the acting performances of Michael B. Jordan as Killmonger (whos simultaneously detestable and likable) and, of course, the great Chadwick Boseman (who will be forever missed). Actually the entire cast is great, and even a secondary character, M'Baku, is one of my favorite characters in the MCU thanks to his depiction in this film.

While this is a rare comic book film with a sense of artistry rarely seen in the genre, the action and combat sequences are also fantastic. Its tough to even blink during each of the two ritual combat scenes, and even more traditional action scenes like the car chase seem fresh and exciting. Quite simply, Black Panther is a treat from start to finish, and is in my book, the best MCU movie ever made.

VengefulKaelee
A movie that stands apart from the vast majority of Marvel fare by virtue of its excellent, unique art design and probably the best single performance in the entire MCU by Michael B. Jordan, a villain who's so well-developed that not only does he completely take over the film, but you also really feel like he has a point at times. It's not a perfect movie by any means; it has some surprisingly bad CGI and though the late, great Chadwick Boseman was a phenomenal actor, his title character surprisingly doesn't get a whole lot of depth in the script compared to Killmonger. Overall, though, it's definitely one of my favorites, for its style and its interesting themes that are unlike any other installments in the franchise.

GavsEvans123
DC must have been furious when this came out. A few months earlier, Wonder Woman became the first female superhero movie of the modern era, the first good female superhero movie, and the first DC movie since the Dark Knight trilogy to be well received. All this together meant Wonder Woman became a bit of a pop-culture phenomenon, and the key was that it appealed to a previously untapped audience demographic. DC thought theyd finally gotten one over on Marvel only for Black Panther to come along and turn the cultural phenomenon factor up to 11.

Black Panther could have easily settled for having a mostly black cast, marketed itself as the first black superhero movie of the modern era and called it a day. Instead, it does something more interesting and embraces its blackness, tying it into the themes and storyline. Subjects such as tradition, heritage, overthrowing ones oppressors, and the hardships faced in disadvantaged black communities are touched on in meaningful ways. Its rare to see a film made for mass audiences to address topics in a way that holds such significance to a specific demographic, and the film is enriched for it. You could conceivably write an academic paper on this film, and Im sure someone more qualified than myself probably has.

Another thing the film has going for it is the setting of Wakanda itself. Here we have Marvels best worldbuilding, as were given a good look at Wakandas customs, hierarchy and government. The world is brought to life in a way that is like no other MCU locale. In addition, exposition is kept to a minimum, and a lot of this is simply shown to the viewer as other things are happening, which means the film avoids dragging as new concepts are explained. These elements add flavour, while also contributing to the films events, as Wakandas isolationist foreign policy indirectly leads to the films events, setting Killmonger onto his path. Speaking of Killmonger, is this film considered Michael B. Jordans atonement for Fant4stic? Hes another excellent villain, who has a sympathetic backstory, while still being very cool and ruthless, and his plan ties into those themes I mentioned earlier.

You know how sometimes in large stories with hundreds of characters, you latch onto one minor character for a reason you cant explain? MBaku is that character in the MCU for me. Ive always just liked him, and I hope he has a bigger role in a sequel.

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Maniac64
This movie is a visual masterpiece with an amazing design and style. Wakanda is so cool, everything involving Wakanda in this movie is great. Killmonger may be the best villain in all of Marvel and I am so sad they killed him, the battle of ideals between him and T'Challa is just great writing. The side characters also stand out here with a bunch of memorable new characters introduced, may even be the best overall cast of characters of any individual hero movie. M'Baku has no business being as amazing as he is. This movie is so rewatchable and just great from start to finish. The top 3 movies for me all stand head and shoulders above the rest.

Red13n
Best Popular Film for 2018. Like I do a few times in these movies, I cannot stress enough how much I enjoy being spared an origin story. While it does function as an introduction to Wakanda and the extent of their technology, being able to jump right in to a character having their powers is always a welcome touch in a world where superhero movies have long since been a dime a dozen. We're also given a villain with justifiable motivation and depth, something quite often missing in the MCU. Hard to leave this out, but Chadwick Boseman's death feels like it has left a giant hole in the MCU, it really felt like T'Challa was an obvious choice to be one of the more important characters going forward to replace some of the old guard.

Eddv
Hey it's a movie that tries things! Most of those things are REALLY stupid though. Carried by incredibly strong acting performances that make one of the worst scripts in the MCU almost sort of work.

Sheep007
I have mixed feelings on Black Panther, but the really good stuff outweighs the really bad, and by quite a lot. Lets start with the bad: the bit of the final fight scene in the field is utterly dreadful. There is nothing good about it, and the CGI is hideous (and its not great in a decent part of the train-line fight, either). Its not the funniest movie, and Shuri irritates me in general, but I think that might be because I dont find her funny and I dont particularly like her actress. Fortunately, thats about it. Next, the okay: most of the characters are fine, the plot in a vacuum is just okay, and I dont think it was as straight-up fun as the very highest movies on my ranking, although its still nearly in the top half. Now, the good, and theres plenty of it. The soundtrack and visuals are both gorgeous, with this probably being the strongest original soundtrack in the MCU (theres better soundtracks, but theyre mostly involving insert songs which werent just made for the movie). Wakanda looks great, and every area in the film has a specific aesthetic which isnt just bland, and thats something very few of the older MCU movies nail. The digital environments and costumes are wonderful, and I think that overall there was just a ton of love and care put into this movie, something you dont see or feel in a lot of my lower down movies (looking at you, Ant-Man 2). Despite me saying the characters were mostly fine, theres a couple of exceptions: TChalla is a phenomenal protagonist, and definitely the strongest from the MCU in just their first movie as the main. The other great character is Killmonger, who is the best villain of any MCU movie, and its not even a contest. Yep, I said it. Thanos is a great villain, dont get me wrong, but Killmonger is the best because hes horrible yet sympathetic. More importantly, he has a point, and a pretty damn good one. Its not just relevant in the movie, its incredibly relevant in reality and it changes the protagonist at the same time. The fact that Wakanda have power and have done nothing with it is ridiculous yet very possible, and the idea of using military means to liberate black people is understandable and even justifiable in a lot of ways (hell, the west have used liberation as an excuse to bomb the shit out of places for probably longer than anyone on B8 has been alive), yet still clearly in the wrong. I could go on for hours and hours about this, but its all backed up by a phenomenal performance from Michael B. Jordan, particularly in the ending. The fact that this movie was also made by a black director and with mostly black characters, as well as a plot directly tying into that rather than shying away from it, makes it all the better and even more culturally significant. Theres a lot more I have to say on the subject, but I think this writeup is already long enough, so Ill leave it with one more thing the shot of Killmonger walking up to the throne while the camera is upside down is probably the single best bit of camerawork in the MCU.

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HanOfTheNekos
That was a very good movie. But I think it suffered for some of the reasons that Doctor Strange did.

I loved the adventures of Black Panther in Korea. I loved the characters. There were so many strong characters that were a delight to watch. Okoye, Shuri... Nakia was alright. M'Baku was the man. Killmonger was a freaking delight. Such a damn good villain. And the soundtrack was amazing... like, this and Thor: Ragnarok are the first two movies where I REALLY feel like I just love and want to listen to the soundtrack (outside of GotG but those are all licensed songs). Oh, and the action was cool, the effects were cool, the tech was cool, Wakanda was cool, Bucky was cool, etc.

But I did not much care for the main plot.

Black Panther becomes king. Cool!
Black Panther hunts down the man who killed a lot of his people. Cool!
Black Panther gets challenged out of nowhere by his cousin who has been missing forever and just showed up and was like "wassup" and won and got thrown off a waterfall. Um...
Black Panther's herbs that give powers were burned but luckily one was returned to him so he could recover from mortal wounds and go back to fight. Eh....
Black Panther wins the fight, Bilbo gets to shoot down things in a jet, Okoye and crew all kick ass, but she kicks her lover's ass the most... some of this was pretty good!
Black Panther kills his cousin without getting a chance to develop him into a different kind of character. Eh...

This was the story they wanted to tell, and I think they did everything they could to tell that story in a terrific manner. I just wasn't the biggest fan of the story.

MetalDK
A tad overrated, but its still damn good. Killmonger is definitely the best or 2nd best villain in the MCU. Easily the best of the 2nd tier.

Raka Putra
Man, the production design in this one is just unmatched. Wakanda is such an awesome, instantly iconic setting. The plot is basically The Lion King but it was delivered really well. Unfortunately it's marred by the lackluster final fight scene. Also RIP Chadwick Boseman. Wakanda forever!

ScepterOfLove
(No write-up.)

Johnbobb
Man what a cast. Put aside everything MCU about this, because its real appeal is more as a star-studded action film than a regular super hero movie. Excellent costume design, excellent performances across the board.

Mr Crispy
Wakanda still seems kind of phony/inauthentic to me, in the same ways that fictional African/native cultures in fiction tend to seem phony (just with space ships and lasers instead of magic). But it's still a colorful and visually interesting backdrop for the action that gives Black Panther a sense of identity standing out from generic superhero movies in generic cities.

While I didn't follow Chadwick Boseman's career, his premature death was a tragedy - dying right when he was starting to take off as a new idol for young people. Black Panther 2 was the only phase 4 movie I had any expectations for, and now I have very little faith that it would be any good without him.

Cybat
My biggest takeaway when walking out of the theater for the first time was that this movie reminded me of The Avengers in that it did a good job of giving almost every character in the cast a moment to show off their abilities. The difference between these two movies of course is that this movie also had to introduce and establish every single one of those characters from scratch before giving them their moment. The way this movie handles its cast is phenomenal, and many of them, especially Shuri and MBaku, are very memorable.
Unfortunately this does come at somewhat of a cost, since it makes TChalla himself feel a little neglected, especially considering how big of an impact he was able to make in Civil War in just a few scenes. And the big CGI fight scene during the climax was pretty bad. But as an introduction to a sub-franchise this movie does wonders. It is tragic that the franchise wont unfold the way anyone wanted it to, but I trust that it is in good hands.

Illuminatusbubu
While I think it is a really good movie, I think it is kind of overrated. I might have too much expectation going in though. I also dont like a token white character in a setting that dont really need him to be there.

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StifledSilence
Chadwick Bosemans passing leaves a HUGE hole in the MCU because his portrayal of Black Panther was, dare I say, perfect. I cant imagine anyone else in that role. That aside, this movie is a good time. Half parts of a tribal aesthetic and a high technology spy thriller, Black Panther keeps eyes glued to the screen the entire time. Additionally, Shuri quickly became one of my favorite MCU characters, and Michael B does not stand for basketball Jordan made for one of the series most compelling villains.

CoolCly
This movie has a lot of great things going on.
The women are great. Shuri is great as the tech wiz little sister, and suits up in her own combat style too. Okoye is imposing and skilled, and her conflict of what to do when her loyalty to TChalla is challenged by her loyalty to the country when Killmonger takes over. I think people love both Shuri and Okoye as breakout characters. But I love Nakia the most. Shes pretty much on the precipice of stepping up to become the next Black Panther herself in this movie, but decides that shes not meant for that destiny and ends up bringing the flower to TChalla. Considering where we are IRL.. I would love it if shes revisited as taking up that mantle.
MBaku is awesome. Its challenge day.
Killmonger is phenomenal. He gets a lot of credit as one of the best villains in the MCU and its well deserved. Hes dangerous and hes got a lot of personal stake with the characters. The only thing I dont like is how general his Im gonna send weapons and start a revolution! his plan in the end was but it was fine enough I guess, the movie didnt really need that to be fleshed out.
Andy Serkis is awesome. Hes fun and vicious and gets brutally taken out by a fellow villain which is always fun. Their partnership and eventual confrontation was thrilling.
I kinda dont like how powerful the Black Panthers gear is. Hes basically just invincible. I dont like it when the heroes are so powerful they arent even at risk of being hurt and thats where BP is at in that armour. The final fight where they cant really hurt eachother because of their dumb armour is resolved in a clever way with the tech that was disabling it requiring some thoughtful fighting, but I kinda had a hard time following that fight.
The movie also has the TChalla Problem as put forward by Marc Bernardin. The movie is called Black Panther but TChalla doesnt really have any particular motivation or goals in this movie hes just kind of there and reacting to everything happening and thats required of him, which is a bit of a shame. Its kind of okay because he had a lot of great character development in Civil War, but it feels a bit strange that hes not as much the focus in his own movie. The vision when he takes the flowers and sees his dad are nice though.
Overall, great movie! Thankfully, the movie was good enough to back up all the social acclaim it was getting.

XIII Rocks
The CGI is...really dodgy, especially the final Killmonger/Panther battle, and while that's a big complaint it's also the limit of my complaints (apart from smaller stuff like W'Kabi and Okoye's relationship being a nonfactor to the point you might have missed it entirely until the end, like why even include that, and some weird dialogue choices like Killmonger saying "this continent" twice, wtf?). I love the internal Wakandan politics that underpins it and the way the movie spends time exploring that - and then there's the larger message it has, which is clearly there but never gets in the way of being a superhero movie. That's the brilliance of it, that it manages to be so many things at once, and none of those things conflict woth each other. I also like the way it resisted making Boseman a quip machine like so many other MCU heroes. Some have said he's boring, but I don't think so. I think he's very clearly got an interesting "heavy is the head that wears the crown" thing going on and he has some sense of humour (particularly with Shuri) without being openly "funny" like Iron Man or Starlord, and the scene in the ancestral plane the second time is excellent (thanks also to the incredible, oscar-winning score, which obviously improves the whole movie but particularly lifts a few scenes). It manages to introduce a ton of characters with very few feeling short-changed; Okoye in particular is fantastic. There's this shot of her during the car chase in Korea, with the red dress billowing in the wind as she holds the spear thingy that makes her look completely unstoppable. And then there's Killmonger. Great villain, great motivations, a sense of ambiguity as to just how wrong he actually is, and his death scene (again, elevated by the outstanding score) nearly brought me to tears, which until that point had never happened in any of the MCU movies. Good shit.

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ZenOfThunder
I rewatched this one when Chadwick Boseman passed and I didn't remember liking it as much as I did the third time through. It's a very well built movie with likable characters and a cool setting that sometimes looks like a PS2 game. Makes sense as the A-Team was probably working on Infinity War at the time, but you can also tell how much love went into this.

PrinceKaro
The landmark movie that features the MCU's first black superhero who isn't a boring military douchebag with zero personality.
This film marks the real introduction of Wakanda, a confederacy of high tech african tribes (plus a bunch of grunting neanderthals in the mountains for some reason) who all live in secrecy in their moon-metal paradise that somehow nobody has found out about until this point. It is equal points stupid and charming and probably done as about as well as could have been in a serious superhero movie.
Suspension of disbelief aside, it is very easy to get caught up in the world of african atlantis where the new king T'Challa has to defend his nation and crown from a gangsta interloper who seeks to destroy Wakanda's very way of life.
It is all very compelling up until the ending where all of a sudden they want to try and make Killmonger a sympathetic character. Yes the same Killmonger who has been a janky wrestling heel for the whole movie. The sociopathic genocidal maniac whose rhetoric nearly started world war 3. That Killmonger.
Now there is nothing wrong with a bad guy being sympathetic, but that is clearly not what they were doing with Killmonger for three-fourths of the movie.
Killmonger's strength as a villain is one of comparison, a dark mirror of T'Challa that shows what could have been if he didnt have the fortitude of character to avoid going down the path of vengeance and hate. He is a character that bares some eerie (and assumedly intentional) parallels to Adolf Hitler. Then it is suddenly aww I'm sowwy poor baby you had a rough life so that's why you are a sadist who carves marks into your own skin for every person youve murdered so hey brother, lets watch the sunset together!
Black Panther the film may not be as radical an idea as his first appearance in the comics in the 1960s but it is still culturally important. While quality-wise it is certainly not best picture material, it still remains entertaining.
RIP Chadwick Boseman

BetrayedTangy
Ill admit it took me a couple of viewings to really appreciate Black Panther. Seeing it in theaters I was pretty disappointed, most of the action scenes felt pretty unspectacular for being this far in the MCU and the plot felt very messy with a lot of lore dumping and a ton of side characters to try and keep track of. However my last two issues ended up paying off, because once you understand it all its a really cool movie. Sure the action still isnt great, but TChalla trying to live up to his father, while still carving his own path and avoiding the same mistakes is awesome. My issue with the side characters still lingers a bit though, Klaue feels really wasted especially with how fun of a character he was, plus Everett Ross really had no business being this prominent in the plot. Like he was pretty lame in Civil War, so I really didnt care about him here. Regardless its still a pretty good movie and rest in peace Chadwick Boseman, you put in one helluva performance as King TChalla.

Corrik7
I think Black Panther is a good movie. But, I also find it rather generic also. Black Panther suffers from the being unkillable for the most part. Any time he takes too much damage he just explodes it back out. There lacks a lot of weight at times in this movie besides in the duel. Killmonger is a relatively good villain. The plot is also commendable as far as differing ideologies. I think this movie gets overrated a lot because it is the first African-American superhero movie. I think if you changed the skin color to all Caucasian people, a lot of the praise for this movie dissipates to a moreso generic film. That said, the movie is good. Just not the best thing ever many consider it.

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MetalmindStats
I personally found the complaints about Black Panthers lacking CG overblown, but conversely, the quieter portions of the movie didnt hit their marks for me in quite the way they did for many others. However, its depiction of Wakanda made for my favorite MCU setting, and Id also say the performances were effective all around; in particular, Shuri is one of my favorite MCU characters (shame about Letitia Wright).

Paratroopa1
This one is the dividing line between 'really good' and 'okay' on the list for me and it's a pretty thick line. I really like Black Panther, and I think the nomination for Best Oscar that it got was plenty deserved. Was it pandering? Oh yeah, obviously. Is it artsy enough? Well, it's got the melodrama and the social commentary and the generally serious tone and the interesting cinematography that the Academy Awards are looking for - as superhero movies go, this one is a little more 'grown up', so to speak, and I think these movies ought to be recognized for their achievements in entertainment, so why not? My only complaint about this film is that we don't really see enough of Wakanda - kind of like Asgard in the Thor movies, they never show us Wakanda as this truly lived-in place, we don't really see its cities and the way its people live, we mostly just see throne rooms and labs and the occasional outdoor shot. Killmonger's a great villain and him taking over the throne is a really awesome shift in the plot, but we never really get a feel for how his rule changes Wakanda - we don't see how peoples' lives change, we don't see the policies that he institutes, and that sort of takes the edge away. Black Panther feels like it's a movie that demands worldbuilding, and too often the worldbuilding just isn't there. But otherwise, it's really well done - the cinematography and soundtrack are a notch above most other MCU offerings and I was never bored by the plot. I couldn't rewatch it because it made me too sad. I think Chadwick Boseman was one of the best that the MCU had to offer, and it's criminal that he was taken from us.

Anagram
Am I the only person who just didnt like this movie? I wanted to see more of Wakanda. Show me what life is like there. We get one street, the castle, and a waterfall. I want to see a Wakandan school where the teacher is using holograms to show kids what the outside world is like, and a little girl raises her hand and points to the United States and asks is there anything interesting there and the teacher says no.

Inviso
Black Panther is a really well-made movie, and its one of the most serious and interesting concepts in the MCU. Killmonger is not the best villain in the franchise, but hes up there (for reasons beyond the fact that the MCU severely lacks good villains). Its always better when the villain has a reasonable motivation (or any motivation at all) beyond just a lust for power, because it adds a question of morality to the movie itself. Killmonger is extreme in his goals, but the basic concept behind his mindset is sound, as evidenced by the fact that TChalla himself eventually adopts some of his policies to expand Wakandas influence into the world. Even TChalla himself is the midst of an origin story that isnt an origin story. Hes trying to step up to the burden of being the king and having the whole country on his shoulders (along with the knowledge of his fathers own actions as king). That being said, I rank it lower just because its a bit TOO serious compared to some other films in the franchise, which made it a little less FUN than those other movies.

Lopen
So this one is a bit of a mixed bag for me. Black Panther is of course great here as he is in Civil War. Killmonger is great and a top MCU villain. Now that dynamic alone will carry a lot of the movie. But man, I find the scientist girl insufferably annoying and John Watson isn't really used too well here, and well Wakanda just isn't really all that interesting to me compared to most of the other settings/lore in the solo flicks-- it's just a little TOO good at being sciency. It's like a Mary Sue in civilization form. So the other problem is I think Killmonger gets his legs cut out from under him a bit too early I guess. It feels like he's just starting to get rolling and then boom it's over for him. Also this is the first movie where I realized just how much the MCU overuses the "hero fights an evil version of themselves!" I dunno. I'm probably more negative on this movie than a lot of people just because of how much good press it got-- this is an alright movie particularly for a solo MCU entry, but it's not a top tier MCU movie by any stretch.

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Mega Mana
First Moment That Comes to Mind: The train fight scene

Of all the moments I list for these entries, this may be the only negative one. It's not something I should really harp on: there was a time crunch to get this out before Infinity War, and many of the animators were invested in the big tentpole movie. But also, I wrote up Ant-Man and the Wasp absolutely stunned by the level of effects work that went in to it and that came out in the same time frame! So the purple and orange early 00s CGI fight in the super sonic train tunnels... that's what my mind remembers about this movie. Which is a shame since the rest of the movie is really good.
Killmonger is excellent, Chadwick Boseman (RIP) is absolute heaven, the supporting cast of Shuri, Okoye, M'Bak, T'Chaka, and N'Jobu are so freaking amazing, Ross is great, realizing at some point Bilbo is interrogating Gollum and laughing out loud in the theatre at a strange time was a highlight, Wakanda as a whole... there's just a lot to like.

To like. I didn't love it like I know people do, but the same also goes for Doctor Strange and Thor Ragnarok. I like it well enough, but I don't revere it like I do some later movies in my list.

Also, who can forget Michael B. Jordan in this? HERE'S WALLACE!

Whiskey Nick
(No write-up.)

NBIceman
Admittedly, this movie probably feels worse to me at times than it actually is because it comes after a streak of really fantastic entries in the MCU and right before Infinity War, because its not like theres not good stuff here. The worldbuilding of Wakanda is great, everyone knows how good Kilmonger is, and the overall plot is nuanced enough that it at least feels like there was effort put in. But Eh. TChalla is a much less compelling character here than he was in Civil War, and the rest of the cast feels like its spread too thin for them to pick up the slack. Klaue is tons of fun, but hes barely involved. TChallas love interest is so forgettable and pointless that I dont even remember her name, which is exceedingly rare for me. The MCU is really driven by character journeys and character interactions, and those aspects are arguably the weakest parts of Black Panther. I dunno; its not bad, its just kinda boring. Feels like a Phase 2 film, and that sort of vibe just doesnt go very far at this point in the saga.

Snake5555555555
Its awesome to see an MCU film with tons of Black representation. And, this movie has some great characters. Chadwick Boseman and Michael B. Jordan deliver all-star performances here, and not just for an MCU film, plus Andy Serkis Klaue makes for a fun returning side-role as a great B-villain. Not to be outdone, Shuri and Martin Freeman are also personal stand-outs for me as well. Theres a great centralized story here where the culture of Wakanda is explored and fleshed-out but where this film loses me and itself is in its terrifying clinging to of cliches, clutching at the typical MCU plot point checklist afraid to make any wrong steps and very keen to make its casting almost the only reason to see this film. For whatever reason, the CGI in this film is especially atrocious, with the final fight especially taking out all of the charisma of its two leads in favor of two blobs fighting each other in candy-vomit land. Theres a supreme lack of stakes in this film and Black Panthers death fake-out is especially one huge eye roll. This couldve been an awesome film, but it settles for mediocrity at almost every step and I just cant see it ranking any higher.

TomNook
I liked this movie a little more when I first saw it, but I don't think it aged well, despite being only 3 years old. This far into the cycle of MCU, you need more things to stand out, which this really doesn't have. Most of the side characters are so tropey to the point it's hard to call them characters--and I realize these are comic book movies...but this film is so much more guilty of this than most of the films here.

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OUTLIERS:

Eddv - 105
PrinceKaro - 85
Johnbobb - 79
BetrayedTangy - 72
Jesse Custer - 67
VengefulKaelee - 67
TomNook - 64
Paratroopa1 - 60
Lopen - 59
Mr Crispy - 56
ScepterOfLove - 55
Snake5555555555 - 55
MetalmindStats - 53
GavsEvans123 - 52
StifledSilence - 52
Inviso - 51
Illuminatusbubu - 50
HanOfTheNekos - 49
Raka Putra - 49
Corrik7 - 46
XIII Rocks - 46
Anagram - 45
Maniac64 - 43
Whiskey Nick - 43
Cybat - 41
NBIceman - 40
Mega Mana - 38
Red13n - 35
CoolCly - 34
MetalDK - 33
Sheep007 - 32
ZenOfThunder 21

Nothing really new after this ranking. Zen picks up a point, but the battle for second-place is now divvied up among Red, Cly, MetalDK, and Sheep, with Mana and Iceman falling out of contention. Meanwhile, the placements at the top of the list seem to be solidifying, barring some unexpected outlier.

Spoiler for Number 8: Features (at least) two of the heroes who got solo movies in Phase 1.

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4. Spider-Man: Homecoming
5. Black Panther
6.
7. Spider-Man: Far From Home
8.
9. Doctor Strange
10. Captain Marvel
11.
12.
13. Ant-Man And The Wasp
14.
15. Ant-Man
16. Avengers: Age of Ultron
17. Captain America: The First Avenger
18. Thor
19. Iron Man
20. Thor: The Dark World
21. Iron Man 2
22. Iron Man 3
23. The Incredible Hulk

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Wow. That hint basically means anything except the GOTG movies are up next.

I'm starting to believe that GOTG1 is #1 because wow. Next is probably Civil War.

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don't worry about me coming for that outlier crown, I'm cruising for a big drop soon....

9 Black Panther
10 Spider-Man: Far From Home
11 Iron Man
12 Captain America: The First Avenger
13 Iron Man 3
14 Thor
15 Avengers: Age of Ultron
16 Doctor Strange
17
18 Ant-Man and the Wasp
19 Ant-Man
20 Captain Marvel
21 The Incredible Hulk
22 Iron Man 2
23 Thor: The Dark World

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SSBM_Guy posted...

Wow. That hint basically means anything except the GOTG movies are up next.

I'm starting to believe that GOTG1 is #1 because wow. Next is probably Civil War.

Winter Soldier doesn't fit the hint either, as far as I'm aware.

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This is the first shocker for me. Had I submitted a list this would've been my #3 after Winter Soldier and The Avengers. It's hard to imagine Black Panther being a bottom five MCU film for one person, let alone three!
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SSBM_Guy posted...

Wow. That hint basically means anything except the GOTG movies are up next.

I'm starting to believe that GOTG1 is #1 because wow. Next is probably Civil War.

Black Widow and Nick Fury didn't have solo movies. Winter Soldier still in!

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I was gonna say 100% Civil War next but honestly it could be any of Avengers/Ragnarok/Civil War/Endgame

I was in a weird spot with Black Panther. I wasn't sure where to put it, but I think the fact that it says something successfully unlike a lot of other MCU movies propels it way up there despite me not being a huge fan of the characters bar Killmonger, and enjoying it a little less than 6-10 on first viewing. I shoulda been expecting it to go earlier given it's not as fun as a lot of the rest, but everyone jamming on about GotG2 made me buy into the anti-hype.

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I'm actually gonna guess Thor Ragnarok.

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Interesting. I figured Black Panther would make top 5. Top 4 is looking like the two Guardians movies and the two Thanos Avengers movies. No idea what the 5th will be.

I havent guessed Avengers 1 for any of these hints yet. Ill try that today.
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Lmao

Cant wait to find out why people love GotG2 so much.

The hint screams Civil War so much that I think Inviso may be being cheeky and its actually Thor Ragnarok or The Avengers. And with the two above it so close, its entirely possible that GotG2 is above ANOTHER one of those movies!

Also GotG1 wins.

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There's no way GOTG2 is top 4, the number of predictions of it dropping low means there's a lot of low rankings for it to average it down. it must be 7th. IT MUST.

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Civil War has actually hung in there a bit longer than I expected it to, so I'll guess that next I suppose.

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To be fair to GOTG2 - it has a lot of really high highs. It just has a lot of negatives that drag it down compared to other "great" MCU films. I'm imagining all the people that ranked it high only care about the great stuff in it, and don't remember or didn't even really notice the flaws, and the people who ranked it low just can't get past the problems.

This is a video I enjoyed that really does a great job explaining the parts of the movie I thought were phenomenal, while not seeming too turbed by the problems I see in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VulkN5OLEM

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CoolCly posted...

There's no way GOTG2 is top 4, the number of predictions of it dropping low means there's a lot of low rankings for it to average it down. it must be 7th. IT MUST.

I doubt the predictors are all low rankings. In fact, Im guessing most of those folks ranked it in the middle or a little higher/lower. Then the ones that ranked it high will push it to the moon.
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Thor Ragnarok fits the hint super well, but considering GOTG2's longevity I can't see it falling out here. I'm going to guess Civil War or Endgame is getting the axe.

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Wow I'm really surprised that I wasn't really that far below the field on Black Panther.

I think other write-ups really nailed my problem with the movie better than I did though. It's not so much that it's a "Mary Sue civilization" (I mean it kinda is in terms of what we see BUT) as much as the only part of Wakanda we really see is their BUSTLING SCIENCE DIVISION. There should be so much more to Wakanda than that. The vibe I was getting was that their whole damn civilization was full of super intelligent eggheads but the more obvious thing is that no there are less gifted people and we just don't see them because none of the film takes place in other parts of Wakanda.

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StifledSilence posted...

I doubt the predictors are all low rankings. In fact, Im guessing most of those folks ranked it in the middle or a little higher. Then the ones that ranked it high will push it to the moon.

The one thing I'm noticing about the GotG2 stuff is that a lot of it is coming from people who didn't submit lists, which might explain the disparity in opinion compared to the list's outcome.

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Interesting, Inviso. The plot! She is thickening!
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CoolCly posted...

There's no way GOTG2 is top 4, the number of predictions of it dropping low means there's a lot of low rankings for it to average it down. it must be 7th. IT MUST.

We've all been saying "The next one HAS to be GOTG2" for like 5 days straight at this point

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CoolCly posted...

There's no way GOTG2 is top 4, the number of predictions of it dropping low means there's a lot of low rankings for it to average it down. it must be 7th. IT MUST.

But what if like 20 people have it in their top 5 and all go Im probably the only person who has it this high?

Anyway, heres my top 8 predix:

114 Guardians of the Galaxy
183 Avengers Endgame
183 Avengers Infinity War
197 Captain America: The Winter Soldier
233 The Avengers
256 Captain America: Civil War
258 Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2
297 Thor Ragnarok

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Hbthebattle posted...

We've all been saying "The next one HAS to be GOTG2" for like 5 days straight at this point

Only 5? XD

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I mean movies with Mantis in it gets at least five spots boost for me.

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So the next one could really be any of them except GotG 1 and Winter Soldier (which is a solid top 2 prediction) and GotG2

Anyway, woo, got that one spot on
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6. Iron Man
7.
8.
9. Black Panther
10.
11. Iron Man 3
12. Age of Ultron
13. Doctor Strange
14. Spider-man: Homecoming
15. Spider-man: Far From Home
16. Iron Man 2
17. Captain Marvel
18. Thor
19. Captain America
20. Ant-Man
21. Ant-Man and the Wasp
22.Thor: The Dark World
23.The Incredible Hulk

Almost certain to lose one of my top 5 tomorrow, I think. Just hope it's not #1 I guess.
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Black Panther went out on its day of [wide] release, neat.

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wallmasterz posted...

its starting to feel like this will be me and everyone else before #2 is announced: it has to be GotG2 next

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Well, Inviso's hint means it can't be GotG2 next.

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Snake5555555555 posted...

Black Panther went out on its day of [wide] release, neat.

Ha, that's a weird coincidence that I also just realized due to charon and I taking about its release date two days ago. I had (mistakenly) recalled working BP's opening on Valentine's Day and it was abysmal.
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Thinking about it, I can't believe I'm surprised a furry movie is doing well on this board

Oh well at least GotG1 would probably be in my top 3

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Aw, Black Panther would have been my #1 and the only MCU film I consider truly exceptional (though that falls almost entirely on its set and costume design)

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