Board 8 > What do you consider to be the most revolutionary video game ever?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hulk Hogan is wrestling

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Jakyl25 posted...

Another huge exaggeration

The US Console market crashed. It has no effect on arcades, computer games, or anything in Japan.

Pretty much. There were plenty of games that came out in 1983 and 1984.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

People dont get that gaming was basically going to die thanks to Atari and ET, until Mario showed up.

To use another example, in our universe, VR gaming basically died, but in another universe, there was a VR game that was as revolutionary as SMB was, and now everyone plays VR there, and regular video games don't really get made anymore.

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What genre did SMB hold back in our universe? Maze chases?
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Kung Fu and Galaga were tearing it up at the dome before Super Mario Bros

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Tetris

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I thought this was a Your First Thought topic so I'll just post what my first thought was

Metal Gear Solid

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SMB1. Don't think it's particularly close

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Super Mario Bros and it will probably never change.

Super Mario 64, Doom, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII comes up next.

Thought of Resident Evil 4 as well, but it's probably a step below.

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ApexEditor posted...

Symphony of the Night

Your game actually has to sell and not just be good.

*laughs in Konami*

Edit: Yes I know SotN was Greatest Hits and re-released multiple times. I also know it sold better than the other IGAvanias.

Doesn't change the fact Konami didn't find the formula viable and decided to scrap it, reboot the series into generic western fantasy God of War derivative garbage, and give IGA the boot.

The silver lining? Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night raised more on Kickstarter than Lords of Shadow ever hoped to sell.

So in a way, IGAvania, SotN or otherwise, did manage to be quite revolutionary. Not to mention, prior to Shenmue III, it grossed the highest cash for a game on Kickstarter.

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Kinglicious posted...

Almost everything there can be said for Street Fighter 2 only it's a significantly bigger monster. Melee not even top 20 in this considering the only thing it revolutionized was other Smash games.

Street Fighter did not become an internet sensation with people begging for characters.

Melee might not have outsold SF2 but SSBU sure as hell did.

SF2 might have started fighting games in the 90s. But Smash brought it into the mainstream. SF will forever be relegated to the niche FGC and 90s arcade nostalgics.

Smash is the revolution that has affected the gaming community with every iteration.

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Rango posted...

Street Fighter did not become an internet sensation with people begging for characters.

this is really the argument you're going to make

Rango posted...

SF2 might have started fighting games in the 90s. But Smash brought it into the mainstream.

this is really the argument you're going to make

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LeonhartFour posted...

this is really the argument you're going to make

this is really the argument you're going to make

We're done here.

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Wolfenstein 3D, if you go in terms of pure popular influence. FPS games are the biggest in the world right now. CoD was the best selling game in 8 of the past 11 years.

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yes if you're using "people in 1992 weren't begging for new characters online" or if you're seriously arguing Street Fighter was never mainstream to say Smash was more revolutionary then there's really nothing else to say

there is no Smash without Street Fighter II

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LeonhartFour posted...

yes if you're using "people in 1992 weren't begging for new characters online" or if you're seriously arguing Street Fighter was never mainstream to say Smash was more revolutionary then there's really nothing else to say

there is no Smash without Street Fighter II

Street Fighter *II* was mainstream and fell into the niche FGC crowd after that. It did invent fighting games to be the way they are although what you might not know is Fatal Fury did the same thing. The only thing is it was heavily overshadowed even though they both came out around the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK3VltKv3JI

Street Fighter II set the groundwork. But if you asked a group of all ages which game is more revolutionary, between Street Fighter and Smash Bros., what do you think would win?

Also, would you condescend the voters for being too young to understand or call them plebs who can't appreciate the classics if they voted for Smash? Or would you accept that Smash Bros. had a bigger impact on a larger scale of people?

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Rango posted...

It did invent fighting games to be the way they are although what you might not know is Fatal Fury did the same thing. The only thing is it was heavily overshadowed even though they both came out around the same time.

I know what Fatal Fury is and did, but thanks.

Rango posted...

But if you asked a group of all ages which game is more revolutionary, between Street Fighter and Smash Bros., what do you think would win?

Also, would you condescend the voters for being too young to understand or call them plebs who can't appreciate the classics if they voted for Smash? Or would you accept that Smash Bros. had a bigger impact on a larger scale of people?

I mean are we arguing what had a bigger impact on the industry or which series more people have played

that's why saying "Smash would win a poll" isn't really a relevant argument

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LeonhartFour posted...

I know what Fatal Fury is and did, but thanks.

I mean are we arguing what had a bigger impact on the industry or which series more people have played

that's why saying "Smash would win a poll" isn't really a relevant argument

We can agree to disagree then. We both agree here that Street Fighter II set the groundwork for fighting games. But in terms of overall impact on the gaming scene today, we will differ on which one had a bigger impact on the world.

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Rango posted...

But in terms of overall impact on the gaming scene today, we will differ on which one had a bigger impact on the world.

your idea of impact is apparently hype

nothing beats Smash in term of hype but Brawl did that, not Melee

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Space Invaders. At least for action games.

• You against against the CPU in multiple waves. Before it, action games AFAIK were one round affairs with a timer that marked the end of the game whether you won or not.
• High Score system
• Life system
• Difficulty progression

Or SMB1.

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It's ludicrous to suggest that a Smash game is anywhere close to being most revolutionary. There are easily dozens of games that are more so.
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LeonhartFour posted...

your idea of impact is apparently hype

nothing beats Smash in term of hype but Brawl did that, not Melee

Fair enough. We'll leave it at that.

I will agree Brawl did beat Melee in terms of hype especially since even more eyes were on the game thanks to Snake & Sonic and the install base of the Wii.

I use Melee predominately since it started many of the Smash traditions that weren't previously featured in Smash 64. Brawl put more eyes on it and added more to what was already there.

Arguably better as well if you're not a fan of Melee's scene or competitive meta. On the other hand, you can't deny the impact Melee itself left on the competitive scene. Even outside of Smash players, everyone knows what Melee is.

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shadosneko posted...

Wolfenstein 3D, if you go in terms of pure popular influence. FPS games are the biggest in the world right now. CoD was the best selling game in 8 of the past 11 years.

if we're going this route i'd cite Ultima Online as a bigger one since that's the granddaddy of mainstream MMOs which prompted online play.

Rango posted...

But in terms of overall impact on the gaming scene today, we will differ on which one had a bigger impact on the world.

even by these bizarre metrics, Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 4 would be bigger considering fighting games were dying again until the latter came out. Melee didn't revive the fighter scene, fighters were dying through its release and Brawl. SF4 came out, boom, triple everything else at EVO, massively more views, and fighters became a mainstream genre again as opposed to a niche.


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SF2 >>> any Smash in this discussion. Trying to defend Smash is ludicrous and reflects your age. Nobody who was around and playing games in '92-'96 when Street Fighter was ubiquitous in the arcades would try to defend Smash here. The only argument -- only argument -- that SF2 doesn't take this without a fight is the existence of Mortal Kombat as a rival and an alternative.

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donkey kong 64

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Wanglicious posted...

if we're going this route i'd cite Ultima Online as a bigger one since that's the granddaddy of mainstream MMOs which prompted online play.

I'm fine with this

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Wanglicious posted...

even by these bizarre metrics, Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 4 would be bigger considering fighting games were dying again until the latter came out. Melee didn't revive the fighter scene, fighters were dying through its release and Brawl. SF4 came out, boom, triple everything else at EVO, massively more views, and fighters became a mainstream genre again as opposed to a niche.

Street Fighter IV definitely had that "revive the FGC" thing going for it. It was kinda obvious nothing was really selling hard even though SoulCalibur IV had just come out. SF4 paved the way for BlazBlue, UMvC3, and MK9 to shine.

Revolutionary, I'm not sure would describe it as. I would say it was "revolutionary" the way that Xenoblade Chronicles breathed life back into the JRPG genre and made the genre become mainstream in the west.

azuarc posted...

SF2 >>> any Smash in this discussion. Trying to defend Smash is ludicrous and reflects your age. Nobody who was around and playing games in '92-'96 when Street Fighter was ubiquitous in the arcades would try to defend Smash here. The only argument -- only argument -- that SF2 doesn't take this without a fight is the existence of Mortal Kombat as a rival and an alternative.

You are going in way too serious about this, my man.

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Rango posted...

I would say it was "revolutionary" the way that Xenoblade Chronicles breathed life back into the JRPG genre and made the genre become mainstream in the west.

what

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LeonhartFour posted...

what

Xenoblade lit a fire for the medium to bring JRPGs back into the forefront. You might not remember seeing people say this but I do remember this being a strong point to consider.

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Xenoblade was an obscure cult RPG that, to release in the west, demanded an online campaign and was only sold in Gamestop.
FF15 trailers did more.


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Rango posted...

Xenoblade lit a fire for the medium to bring JRPGs back into the forefront. You might not remember seeing people say this but I do remember this being a strong point to consider.

You misremember. Xenoblade itself is a great success story but it did nothing to revolutionize the genre or somehow make it mainstream.

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FF13, 2009 - 7 million copies

Xenoblade, 2010 - less than 1 million copies.

Remind me again which game "brought JRPGs back into the forefront?"

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GildedFool posted...

FF13, 2009 - 7 million copies

Xenoblade, 2010 - less than 1 million copies.

Remind me again which game "brought JRPGs back into the forefront?"

I don't think Xenoblade should be mentioned in this topic but this logic isn't the reason why. There's plenty of games that sold a bunch and influenced nothing. FF13 is one of them. Actually, if anything, it was influential in a negative way - FF has always been the bellweather for the genre and FF13 failed so badly that it kicked off a JRPG downturn that lasted until 2017 when Nier Automata and Persona 5 righted the ship. And while it didn't set the world on fire or anything, Xenoblade was one of the few bright spots that kept faith in the genre alive during that time period.

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i mean the comparison made here is Xenoblade to RPGs as SF4 to fighters.
when in reality Xenoblade is basically the GGX2 of fighters.

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Wanglicious posted...

i mean the comparison made here is Xenoblade to RPGs as SF4 to fighters.
when in reality Xenoblade is basically the GGX2 of fighters.

clearly it's really the garou

Wanglicious posted...

Xenoblade was an obscure cult RPG that, to release in the west, demanded an online campaign and was only sold in Gamestop.
FF15 trailers did more.

Leonhart4 posted...

You misremember. Xenoblade itself is a great success story but it did nothing to revolutionize the genre or somehow make it mainstream.

To be fair, it is Final Fantasy. People remember the brand first and foremost. Ofcourse FF is going to sell.

Would you not say the popularity of Xenoblade was capitalized on by other publishers to sell copies of Persona 4 Golden and Fire Emblem: Awakening?

UF8 posted...

clearly it's really the garou

GGXX was a solid anime fighter that made anime fighting games popular in the west and had that incredibly fast-paced gameplay and weird character design. Not to mention the godlike soundtrack. On one hand, you have a point. However, that's not really the comparison I see otherwise in terms of their respective genres.

Then you have Garou which is still heavily slept on by all but hardcore FGC. It's never going to get the recognition it deserves even despite re-releases by SNK for PS4 and PC. It's like that great, quality fighter that hit all the right notes but never took off. Not sure that comparison is right for XBC.

I just see it as the beginning of the renaissance for the JRPG genre. If you don't see it that way that's understandable.

...

We really got off-topic here.

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Rango posted...

Would you not say the popularity of Xenoblade was capitalized on by other publishers to sell copies of Persona 4 Golden and Fire Emblem: Awakening?

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here. Xenoblade revived the niche RPG? I'm pretty sure the niche RPG was the one thing that did just fine in that 10 year period between FFXII and FFXV.

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LeonhartFour posted...

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here. Xenoblade revived the niche RPG? I'm pretty sure the niche RPG was the one thing that did just fine in that 10 year period between FFXII and FFXV.

Interesting.

So overall you don't believe Xenoblade Chronicles sparked a catalyst for JRPGs to come to the forefront in the west?

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Rango posted...

So overall you don't believe Xenoblade Chronicles sparked a catalyst for JRPGs to come to the forefront in the west?

I don't even understand what you're trying to say Xenoblade did. Are you arguing that RPGs suddenly became extremely popular in the west because Xenoblade sold a million copies on a dying system? AAA RPGs were still in bad shape for like 5 years after Xenoblade came out, so it had no impact on that. Niche RPGs still occupy the same space that they occupied before Xenoblade. I don't even understand the logic for giving it credit for Persona or Fire Emblem.

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Rango posted...

You are going in way too serious about this, my man.

Defends his argument across five previous replies.

Accuses someone else jumping into the discussion of being way too serious.

kay, then.

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what popularity, Xenoblade's a cult RPG that sold a hundred thousand copies in its staggered lifetime. solid numbers for a niche game but it didn't change anything in this market, especially considering NOA kneecapped it.

Persona 4 Golden capitalized off the many successes of Atlus from the PS2, DS, PSP, and PS3. no one game can take responsibility for this, just a legacy of a major publisher on an updated well loved game. this is exactly what happened to Xenoblade when it got to the Switch.

Awakening's popularity is far more towards the fact that it's Waifu Emblem. we were deep in the age of waifus at this point and Xenoblade's got no impact on this.

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Rango posted...

Interesting.

So overall you don't believe Xenoblade Chronicles sparked a catalyst for JRPGs to come to the forefront in the west?

considering Xenoblade itself wasn't at the forefront of JRPGs in the west, this obviously did not happen. the numbers do not support that ever being a thing.

decided to double check the dates: Xenoblade came out in the US just 6 days before FE:A came out in Japan. by this time it already had announced a release for the west and localization was planned fairly early on in development. literally no impact can be attributed here.

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why are we talking about xenoblade and not donkey kong 64

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LeonhartFour posted...

I don't even understand what you're trying to say Xenoblade did. Are you arguing that RPGs suddenly became extremely popular in the west because Xenoblade sold a million copies on a dying system? AAA RPGs were still in bad shape for like 5 years after Xenoblade came out, so it had no impact on that. Niche RPGs still occupy the same space that they occupied before Xenoblade. I don't even understand the logic for giving it credit for Persona or Fire Emblem.

To be fair, Fire Emblem: Awakening did in fact revive the series.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/24/fire-emblem-awakenings-success-ultimately-saved-the-franchise

2016 carried that momentum forward with Fates. Thanks to Nintendo's incredible marketing, it became the best-selling title in the series.

https://www.dualshockers.com/fire-emblem-three-houses-best-fire-emblem-sales-ever/

Persona 5 became a cultural phenomenon. To deny its popularity and how it targeted, and succeeded with, a broader audience would be absurd.

https://goombastomp.com/persona-5-ffvii/

This thread discusses how the genre got its push over the last decade. 2017 was specifically a major year.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/comments/fnckcd/genre_revival_and_2020/

The only way to assume there was never a JRPG revival is to pretend nothing has changed since the 2000s. And the only way to assume that they've never changed in success is to live in an echochamber, such as a forum that has celebrated the genre long before they picked up popularity outside of said forum. Naturally, being around people who celebrate these games make them sound more popular than they actually are.

The fact of the matter is, several games and series of the past decade, specifically around the mid-late 2010s, revitalized the genre. Even if it wasn't Xenoblade, it at least was a precursor to that role.

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Persona creating waifu culture in JRPGs had more to do with that than Xenoblade did. I still don't even know what you're crediting it with impacting other than being its own success story.

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Rango posted...

The only way to assume there was never a JRPG revival is to pretend nothing has changed since the 2000s. And the only way to assume that they've never changed in success is to live in an echochamber, such as a forum that has celebrated the genre long before they picked up popularity outside of said forum. Naturally, being around people who celebrate these games make them sound more popular than they actually are.

dude these are the only people who played Xenoblade so I don't know what you're trying to argue here

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Leonhart4 posted...

Persona creating waifu culture in JRPGs had more to do with that than Xenoblade did. I still don't even know what you're crediting it with impacting other than being its own success story.

Persona and Fire Emblem both definitely helped with the waifu culture. I think with Persona it crept up with every entry. Smash helped capitalize on the market that grew with the release of FE Awakening and Fates.

Xenoblade definitely didn't help with waifu culture.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nQIzDM2Oxv4/maxresdefault.jpg

On that note, it reminds me of how Definitive Edition went the Radiant Historia 3DS route and just redid all the character art to stand out to a broader audience.

MZero posted...

dude these are the only people who played Xenoblade so I don't know what you're trying to argue here

Well, I was always under the impression Xenoblade helped start a boom to broaden the horizons for JRPG fans. Perhaps I gave it too much credit although it was at least a progenitor leading up to the more popular choices that followed it.

With that being said, you can better believe many more people are playing Xenoblade now than 10 years ago. That's part of the effect coupled with Nintendo's marketing of the latter titles and tripled with Shulk's inclusion in Smash. Nintendo fans influence one-another to try a new game and the fanbase grows because of it.

As for everything else, that was just from strong marketing because publishers like Atlus, NIS, XSeed, and so forth found an audience to capitalize on.

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metaIslug posted...

River Raid is a good game that predates SMB and it had scrolling

Also Moon Patrol
and Pac-Land exists but its not good

Did anyone say SimCity, thats in the conversation

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Symphony of the Night

or Tomba!

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