Board 8 > Coronavirus Topic 10

(+) Yeah! (+)

charmander6000 posted...

Not really, half the population lives in the Quebec City-Windsor Corridor, if it were a US state it would rank 20th in terms of population density (around North Carolina)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City%E2%80%93Windsor_Corridor

Outside of Ontario and Quebec; British Columbia (Vancouver) and Manitoba (Winnipeg) have one metro area that contains over half the province's population while Alberta (Calgary/Edmonton) and Saskatchewan (Regina/Saskatoon) have two metro areas with more than 50% of the province's population.

Canada just has a lot of space where nobody lives in.

That corridor is almost double the size of North Carolina also tho. Edit: oh you said density.

Got ya.

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There seem to be another wave of stories about reinfection going around. Reading through them I see nothing to differentiate them from the earlier stories from South Korea, Israel, Italy and the reports of it happening on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. Still something to keep an eye on, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few outliers for whom it could be true.

My own theory for it is that degrees of exposure to the virus at different times may be enough to "overwhelm" the diminished antibody presence and allow for symptoms to reemerge. I would highly doubt any of these cases would become severe because of the presence of the memory T and B cells.

Or, again, this could just be inactive viral RNA fragments setting off PCR tests like every past incidence.

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Esuriat posted...

There seem to be another wave of stories about reinfection going around. Reading through them I see nothing to differentiate them from the earlier stories from South Korea, Israel, Italy and the reports of it happening on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. Still something to keep an eye on, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few outliers for whom it could be true.

My own theory for it is that degrees of exposure to the virus at different times may be enough to "overwhelm" the diminished antibody presence and allow for symptoms to reemerge. I would highly doubt any of these cases would become severe because of the presence of the memory T and B cells.

Or, again, this could just be inactive viral RNA fragments setting off PCR tests like every past incidence.

Not a single reinfection case has been proven definitively.

I wouldn't worry about them right now.

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Oh I know, that's why I was emphasizing how we've been through this a bunch already and each time it's been shown that they weren't actual reinfections. But the distance between these alleged "second positives" is longer than the ones that were discussed before (3 months vs. 6-8 weeks for the first time around) which is why I'm entertaining the possibility.

The unfortunate other side to this is that if they aren't reinfections it reinforces just how persistent the symptoms and effects can be for some people.

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The Ontario government put out a massive exemption list for the mandatory masks inside public businesses by law and kids 12 & under fall on the exception list. If the government is cool with all kids 12 & under not bothering with masks I dont want to hear any guff come September. Send the kids back to school full time - the mental suffering the isolation and lack of social structure has put on them is real.
And yes before someone says "oh wow mental suffering vs kids DYING"
Ya I mean we should totally let the entire school population suffer while it took until almost July before in all of Canada we have had our first covid related death of someone under the age of 20.


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okay but when you kill a bunch of their teachers and parents ....

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You still don't understand that children spread the disease to non-children.
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kids give it to their teachers, EAs, ECEs, office staff, custodians

also to their parents

who then give it to their co workers

etc

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Yeah kids are not at all immune from the virus, they're just much less likely to die from it.

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I understand what you guys are saying but what's the solution ? Hold them out until what ? Every kid is vaccinated? What happens when this virus mutates every year and it's back again next year?

I'm not worried about teachers is education not essential? You're now an essential worker no sympathy for the poor teachers.

The grandparents thing yes that's basically the only concerning part and I empathize but that's why things like CERB are in place. Have a parent stay home, get someone in the family who isnt 80, shit I dunno man it's a real problem I get that but it's the lesser of the 2 evils here

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The solution was to continue having everything shut down and paying people to stay home instead of reopening in May and June and things would have been over by school time, like they are now in many countries. Instead we have to make even harder decisions now because our leaders were cowards and our ruling class were too greedy

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CERB is ending at the end of August

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Also if you wanna label education workers as essential workers you have to pay them as such like you do police, fire etc


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WazzupGenius00 posted...

The solution was to continue having everything shut down and paying people to stay home instead of reopening in May and June and things would have been over by school time, like they are now in many countries. Instead we have to make even harder decisions now because our leaders were cowards and our ruling class were too greedy

but we saved the economy!

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Whiskey_Nick posted...

Also if you wanna label education workers as essential workers you have to pay them as such like you do police, fire etc

Entirely different debate but classify them as something else then. We didnt exactly classify the people stocking shelves at Walmart as essential workers but they never stopped when covid hit. Or... we are canadian so teachers are paid handsomely, have insane benefits, pensions, a full summer off along with all the holidays children get - with full pay of course so ya, step up and go to work in September.

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I'm not so sure teachers are paid less than cops on average or firefighters tbqh.

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Corrik7 posted...

I'm not so sure teachers are paid less than cops on average or firefighters tbqh.

Depends on the district and how tenured they are.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Depends on the district and how tenured they are.

Well, you either have tenure or you don't. I assume you mean how long you have worked there and how many steps you climbed in seniority.

That said, it doesn't really matter as I said on average.

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Corrik7 posted...

I'm not so sure teachers are paid less than cops on average or firefighters tbqh.

They are

PerfectChaosZ posted...

They are

We gonna go for anything to prove that, not that it matters much cuz if so it's likely not a large difference.

BLS cops

https://www.ibtimes.com/us-police-salary-2020-how-much-policemen-earn-every-state-2985837

Cops 67k national average.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/mobile/high-school-teachers.htm

Teachers 58k national average.

I am gonna be generous and say that teachers work 10 months out of 12 months of the year. It could be closer to 9 in some states.

67 x 10 12 = 55.83k for cops over the same time period.

How are teachers paid less?

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Teachers don't accrue PTO, which will make up some of that difference between 10 months and 12. Their benefits are also going to just be worse in general, meaning more out of pocket.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Teachers don't accrue PTO, which will make up some of that difference between 10 months and 12. Their benefits are also going to just be worse in general, meaning more out of pocket.

The difference is more than 2 months, like I said I was being generous with it.

Teachers and cops benefits will vary from area to area. For example, my local district is highly paid and has the best benefits in the entire area. So, we can't make that blanket statement regarding that.

What we can surmise is hour by hour, teachers are paid more when all is accounted for. It's hard to argue they are being paid less than essential workers on a per hour basis.

Especially when firefighters was listed and the bls has them at 49k a year. And, I question whether the 67k for cops might be including overtime in those numbers of some sort also.

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Corrik7 posted...

The difference is more than 2 months, like I said I was being generous with it.

10 months is actually the norm. Most are 10 months. Some give the option to spread that 10 month pay over 12 months.

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StealThisSheen posted...

10 months is actually the norm. Most are 10 months. Some give the option to spread that 10 month pay over 12 months.

Most teachers work between 181 and 195 days.

Most workers work 365 5 7 = 260 days.

260 - 195. = 65

65 7 5 = 91 days less on a calendar year and 65 days less of working days.

Not that any of this matters. I have already shown you that teachers likely make more per hour they work than cops and definitely firefighters on average as was asserted otherwise. You are now trying to pick little details to debunk that and mire down the convo. I think we can just agree teachers are paid similarly to other essential workers listed as firefighters and cops and go from there without it being a long debate.

The question for schooling is always going to be. Does not having in school instruction hurt the student too much in development to offset the risks? Students themselves are low risk for deaths but they can increase spread. Is that risk worth it to ensure students can develop properly. A year, especially in a young child, without in class instruction could cause major stunts that affect the child through their learning development.

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In a shocking twist. Cases have doubled here since stuff reopened

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https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/07/20/2064154/0/en/Synairgen-announces-positive-results-from-
trial-of-SNG001-in-hospitalised-COVID-19-patients.html

Treatment news

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1285206686760935430

Oxford vaccine news


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Point made re: teachers vs. cops, but I'd also like to point out that a lot of teachers wind up working off the clock and paying out of pocket for supplies

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Corrik7 posted...

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/07/20/2064154/0/en/Synairgen-announces-positive-results-from-
trial-of-SNG001-in-hospitalised-COVID-19-patients.html

Treatment news

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1285206686760935430

Oxford vaccine news

Gimme

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The place that tested me said 3-7 calendar days until i get results. Im at 72 hours right now so im hoping to get cleared today and get the hell out of my house. The gym is calling my name

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UltimaterializerX posted...

But I thought masks were 100% effective?

This. Why did you guys lie to Ulti?
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UltimaterializerX posted...

But I thought masks were 100% effective?

why would you think that

no one has ever made that claim
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USA should hit 4 million cases today.

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And still fewer deaths per million than France, Italy, Sweden, Belgium, and the UK!

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I wish they would just tell us if they were extending UBI or not.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

I wish they would just tell us if they were extending UBI or not.

From what I understand, it isn't even getting reviewed in time to be extended. So if it does get extended it will be a mess. First they will need to backdate and second they will need to evaluate and alter all the payments since people seem to think if it is extended it will be income based so that people aren't earning more at home than they would at work. People probably won't see the money for weeks after.

Least that's what I've read

SmartMuffin posted...

And still fewer deaths per million than France, Italy, Sweden, Belgium, and the UK!

so...?

i still don't get your "if a country isn't doing the absolute worst in the world, it's doing great!" logic.

also for the millionth fucking time, the belgium numbers are wrong.

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also, weren't you arguing that sweden was doing pretty good not too long ago? literally using it as an example of a country that's doing poorly now lol

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SmartMuffin posted...

And still fewer deaths per million than France, Italy, Sweden, Belgium, and the UK!

Yeah those places have been total disaster zones

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

also, weren't you arguing that sweden was doing pretty good not too long ago? literally using it as an example of a country that's doing poorly now lol

Sweden is doing very good in the sense that they engaged in basically no mitigation whatsoever and stack up favorably to various other countries that instituted draconian lockdowns. Also, it appears they've basically achieved herd immunity and that their pandemic is essentially over and they can go back to normal pretty soon.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

But I thought masks were 100% effective?

Its almost like not 100% of the people are wearing masks while having house parties.

Weird

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Also I think you can safely open most businesses.

It's the gatherings part that seems to be causing our new increases. It's almost all people under 40

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SmartMuffin posted...

Sweden is doing very good in the sense that they engaged in basically no mitigation whatsoever and stack up favorably to various other countries that instituted draconian lockdowns. Also, it appears they've basically achieved herd immunity and that their pandemic is essentially over and they can go back to normal pretty soon.

so they're doing poorly but also good?

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RPGlord95 posted...

Also I think you can safely open most businesses.

It's the gatherings part that seems to be causing our new increases. It's almost all people under 40

Yeah people can say what they want about the old ass anti maskers but from what ive seen they just cry about it at home on facebook. They are still wrong, of course, but they arent spreading much

Its the kids who dont give a shit and go to the bars and public spaces that are the biggest threat

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so they're doing poorly but also good?

Yes! In strict terms of deaths per capita to date, they are doing relatively poorly (although they're not THE worst, which they absolutely should be if lockdowns or masks requirements have a significant impact)..

But in the overall balance of things, the fact that they've achieved that without mass lockdowns, shutting down the schools, violating individual rights, etc. and that the worst seems to be over for them and they can basically return to normal (while other jurisdictions that have fewer deaths for now are going to have to continue to scratch and claw and lockdown to keep it that way).

It's short term pain for long term gain. Like chemotherapy. The day after a cancer patient receives chemo, they're going to feel a lot shittier than someone with the same cancer who didn't get chemo. But long term, they're much better off.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

also for the millionth fucking time, the belgium numbers are wrong.

Why do you keep saying this with absolutely nothing to back it up with?

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My prediction is that whenever this is all said and done, we'll see about the same number of cases per million everywhere on Earth, with small exceptions for particularly small/isolated states (New Zealand), tyrannical regimes who are willing to do unimaginably cruel things to maintain lockdowns (China), and developing nations that just don't bother testing/counting (India).

Deaths per million will vary quite a bit; however. Places that got hit early on, when the best treatment methods were unclear (Italy), will have it worse than places that got hit later. Places that got hit early and deliberately sacrificed the elderly in nursing homes to free up capacity will look the worst (New York). Basically, pushing the curve out in time is useful in preventing deaths, but not in preventing cases. Pretty much the only way to prevent cases is to stay in lockdown indefinitely. If you ever want to re-open, the cases are going to come. Unless you're the small island willing to shutdown international travel forever.

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SmartMuffin posted...

My prediction is that whenever this is all said and done, we'll see about the same number of cases per million everywhere on Earth, with small exceptions for particularly small/isolated states (New Zealand), tyrannical regimes who are willing to do unimaginably cruel things to maintain lockdowns (China), and developing nations that just don't bother testing/counting (India).

Deaths per million will vary quite a bit; however. Places that got hit early on, when the best treatment methods were unclear (Italy), will have it worse than places that got hit later. Places that got hit early and deliberately sacrificed the elderly in nursing homes to free up capacity will look the worst (New York). Basically, pushing the curve out in time is useful in preventing deaths, but not in preventing cases. Pretty much the only way to prevent cases is to stay in lockdown indefinitely. If you ever want to re-open, the cases are going to come. Unless you're the small island willing to shutdown international travel forever.

Impossible because no uniform testing or counting anywhere.

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