Board 8 > Rating Every Fire Emblem Character: Day 1 - FE7 Lords

(+) Yeah! (+)

Interest gauge/seeing whats up. Everything subject to change for now.

Stuff:
- Ratings 1-10, no decimals. If you include a decimal, I will round down.
- We will do two ratings for each character character & unit. They will be separate lists and you do not have to rate for both lists. Character rating is for design, personality, aesthetics, story, etc. and unit rating for everything gameplay related. If you only submit one rating and dont specify which, it will default to the character rating.
- You are free to rate any characters from past days or change your rating.
- Nominations for future characters are accepted. This does not guarantee your noms will be up for rating the next day but they will be moved up the queue for sooner rather than later.
- You obviously do not have to rate everything, just the ones you want.
- No regular schedule (e.g. Day 2 will not necessarily come ~24 hours after Day 1)

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lne8OQTQ7CwA5UXfzbD-Gsl34JuhamCU9oUgW85JC9w

Day 1: FE7 Lords

Lyn

Lord -> Blade Lord
Stats:
Lv: 4
HP: 18
STR: 5
SKL: 10
SPD: 11
LCK: 5
DEF: 2
RES: 0
CON: 5
AID: 4
MOV: 5

Growth Rates:
HP: 70
STR: 40
SKL: 60
SPD: 60
LCK: 55
DEF: 20
RES: 30

Eliwood

Lord -> Knight Lord
Stats:
Lv: 1
HP: 18
STR: 5
SKL: 5
SPD: 7
LCK: 7
DEF: 5
RES: 0
CON: 7
AID: 6
MOV: 5

Growth Rates:
HP: 80
STR: 45
SKL: 50
SPD: 40
LCK: 45
DEF: 30
RES: 35

Hector

Lord -> Great Lord
Stats/Growths:
Lv: 1
HP: 19 / 90
STR: 7 / 60
SKL: 4 / 45
SPD: 5 / 35
LCK: 3 / 30
DEF: 8 / 50
RES: 0 / 25
CON: 13
AID: 12
MOV: 5

Form:
Lyn CH
Lyn UN
Eliwood CH
Eliwood UN
Hector CH
Hector UN

Form:
Lyn CH 6
Lyn UN 3
Eliwood CH 1
Eliwood UN 1
Hector CH 8
Hector UN 10

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Lyn UN 7
Eliwood UN 4
Hector UN 9

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Lyn CH 7
Lyn UN 8

Starting with the only character in this series I'll be able to do an informed rating for, woo

I enjoyed the game a little but not enough to stick out a second campaign

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Lyn unit: 7
Eliwood unit:: 5
Hector unit: 10


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Oh hell yeah, this is a project I can get behind.

Lyn CH 10
Lyn UN 6
Eliwood CH 8
Eliwood UN 7
Hector CH 10
Hector UN 7

All these characters have issues as units, but you pretty much have to use them so you might as well do it, and with their great availability and reasonably high growths they don't really drag your team down any on a non-optimized playthrough.

Character-wise Hector's the obvious standout -- he's just a really cool character and at times a great foil to Lyn and Eliwood. Lyn suffers from the plot leaving her behind as the game goes on, but she remains interesting in her supports, and there's something really compelling about the line she straddles between the freedom she craves and the responsibilities of being nobility. Both of them are among my favorite characters in the series. Eliwood has grown on me a lot since I first played FE7; in some ways he's just a generic hero guy but there's more vulnerability and maturity and intelligence there than with most lords in the series (and JRPG protags in general).

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Lyn:
CH: 9
UN: 3

Eliwood:
CH: 6
UN: 5

Hector:
CH: 7
UN: 7

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my most recent playthrough, i actually ditched Eliwood for almost every chapter i could during the middle and i felt such a relief

Form:
Lyn CH 6
Lyn UN 7
Eliwood CH 6
Eliwood UN 6
Hector CH 8
Hector UN 8

A suggestion, on the second rule you should put (CH) after character and (UN) after unit since I kindaaa tried to skim the rules for CH and UN but didn't find them.

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oh yeah i'll do that

would appreciate more feedback regarding format

i would like to include stats/growths for the characters since i like having them for the unit rating but do people even care/look at them? i know i'm not including some other information that could factor in rating like average stats and weapon ranks (and later games get crazier) but i want to at least see if it's even worth listing additional info in the first place. this also factors into how many characters we'll do because i don't want to gather and list the stats for like 20 different characters for one day. could obviously just link to them but i like having them in the actual topic.

definitely want to take this slower than pokemon since i think there's more room for discussion and tbh i'm looking to replay some stuff as well.

The stats definitely help for characters that I don't remember very well, though it might make the posts really long as we get into more characters. The Stats/Growth thing on Hector is really nice for that.
And I personally don't t really need average stats/weapon ranks.

The thing is, people who pay that much attention to a unit's stats are probably people who have more recollection of the stats offhand anyway.

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I feel like this series would work a lot better if people just rated every character once. I get that there are characters that are good units but poorly written and vice versa, but..... aren't fire emblem characters' unit viability more or less objective? What's the point of rating that?

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On that note, if this continues as is, I'm just gonna rate characters because I don't remember how good they are and I'm not gonna go looking through a bunch of growth rate numbers to figure it out.

Lyn CH: 10
Eliwood CH: 5
Hector CH: 10

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Lyn CH 8
Lyn UN 8
Eliwood CH 6
Eliwood UN 7
Hector CH 7
Hector UN 9

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Lyn CH 6
Lyn UN 10
Eliwood CH 7
Eliwood UN 8
Hector CH 8
Hector UN 9

I'm gonna get a bit of backlash for being a little higher on Eli, but I do like him as a character, especially through some of his supports, and I dislike most of Lyn's supports. She comes off with the worst aspects of a swordmaster character (slight bit of arrogance and then the definite lack of understanding of noble society). Granted, her unit is still a better version of one of my favorite classes, so yeah, I tend to never miss a beat of using her regardless.

Also, Eliwood as a unit has gotten Def blessed all too often for me, I've seen him at a point where Hector had like 3 levels on Eli but Eli had more defense. Weirdest shit ever. Of course, nothing needs to be said about Hector, people that like him know exactly what there is to like about him. People that don't, simply don't appreciate that kind of character and that's fine.

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Lyn UN 6
Eliwood UN 6
Hector UN 8

Lyn - her stats are pretty good, Mani Katti is good, but otherwise there's nothing particularly great about her.

Eliwood - mediocre stats, Rapier is weak, but lances and pony upon promotion are certainy helpful. Best promotion of the three.

Hector - strength and bulk, plus the very powerful Wolf Beil, make him a great boss killer. Axes aren't too inaccurate in FE7 so he does fine. Worst promotion though hurting him a bit late game with 5 move (boots are in high demand) and swords which really don't do anything for him, so the best lord easily but not perfect.

MrSmartGuy posted...

I feel like this series would work a lot better if people just rated every character once. I get that there are characters that are good units but poorly written and vice versa, but..... aren't fire emblem characters' unit viability more or less objective? What's the point of rating that?

Oh, people will rate units very differently even based on unit viability. People will still give Marcus 1's and Nino 10's because of the level ups.

MrSmartGuy posted...

aren't fire emblem characters' unit viability more or less objective? What's the point of rating that?

I think this is a fair point. There is room for debate but consensus does form as time goes on. Part of what led to my initial decision to split the lists was the consideration that people value things differently and i think a lot of people would judge their unit scores based on their own experiences which have a lot of variables like mode difficulty. I think there might still be enough variance in unit opinions to justify keeping the split system but it's something I might reconsider going forward.

RyoCaliente posted...

You could've separated Pokmon into design and usability as well, but you didn't then.

This is where personal outlook factors in but I find it much easier to ignore viability/design completely with FE characters than with Pokemon. Little weird considering Pokemon has the huge competitive scene but I do sometimes have my opinions on Pokemon almost solely based on one or the other whereas with FE, both are undoubtedly in my mind to some degree. So it's harder for me to process one rating as being reflective of both factors when there are some characters who are at opposite ends personally (e.g. unit who is really good but i think looks dumb). Not sure if I'm making sense.

More on why I didn't split for Pokemon:

1. Number. There are almost 900 Pokemon but like half of them are not even considered for competitive use by virtue of being obsolete (most NFEs). In FE, there are some units that could be considered obsolete but they are not connected to one unit in the same way that like Bulbasaur is to Venusaur.

2. Different generations having different mechanics means viability for one Pokemon can range depending on what period/format. The only way viability ratings would have made sense to me is if we had at least 8 different ratings for every Pokemon depending on the format. In FE, you would be judging a unit based on their one game (would have had different unit ratings for units that appeared in multiple games; was undecided on character ratings). I know difficulty modes within the FE games could have played a part in different ratings but that's much less of a difference than one Pokemon in two different generations/meta.

3. Limited resources/perceived difficulty. I think Pokemon games are seen as easy by a lot of people while obviously FE has those as well, the structure of the games makes it so that viability of a unit is much more likely to be in the someone's mind concerning FE characters than Pokemon. You can infinitely grind in Pokemon and viability is much less of a concern in the single-player campaign. FE games have strategy as a big focus for a lot of the playerbase with limited resources (not counting things like arena abuse) and that changes the mindset of the average player (I know especially the later games in the series have options to ignore that aspect).

4. practicality. would anyone for that project have rated multiple pokemon for multiple gens for competitive viability or have cared? think it's more likely that there are people that only care about one aspect for FE games though.

Lyn CH - 4
Lyn UN - 3
Eliwood CH - 7
Eliwood UN - 4
Hector CH - 9
Hector UN - 7

Lyn is a fairly weak unit with abysmal defenses and poor strength. Being locked to swords is always terrible in the GBA games for lack of 1-2 range, and bows aren't a very desirable secondary weapon type for the same reason. The Mani Katti is a fairly good personal weapon and her speed is good, but the Sol Katti is trash. Character-wise I've always found her a little bland and I dock her a point because her whole existence is a big fat retcon.

Eliwood shares Lyn's issues as a sword-only 5 move unit with low bases. He has a little extra durability than her which can allow him to take an extra hit or two on enemy phase, but his lower speed can lead to lackluster offense. His rapier can also be unimpressive against lance cavalry and armors because effective weapon damage is x2 in FE7 instead of the usual x3. His promotion is a big help, giving him the two most important things any unit needs: a horse and lance access. Still, he doesn't really justify the effort of training him, since his exclusive class is essentially just a Paladin who can't use axes. Eliwood is significantly better on Hector mode, since he's locked to a very late promotion on his own mode. As a character he is basically your standard lord but I've always had a thing for him for some reason. Maybe just because FE7 was one of my first Fire Emblem games.

Hector's durability is outdone only by Oswin and Marcus early on, which combined with his high strength and access to good weapons like the hand axe and his exclusive Wolf Beil make him a strong combat unit right out of the gate. While lance using enemies tear apart Eliwood or Lyn, Hector usually has a kind of stalemate with sword users where he can't hit them but they do almost no damage to him. His major shortcoming is that he never gets above 5 move. Like Eliwood, he can promote much earlier if you're not playing his own mode, which makes him a lot better. As a character he is one of my favorite lords. His more impulsive personality is a nice change of pace from the other lords and usually pretty enjoyable on its own merits.


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Lyn CH 5
Lyn UN 2
Eliwood CH 5
Eliwood UN 2
Hector CH 7
Hector UN 7

Lyn and Eliwood are decent enough characters, nothing special. Hector is a bit better mainly because his story with his brother and Oswin is one of the best parts of the game, writing wise.

As units Lyn and Eliwood are both really bad and I can never make up my mind which is worse. Eliwood is better in the long run because his promotion lets him be a real unit, but he's even worse in the short term, but if you care about what's effective you don't use Lyn either so does that matter...? Both are frail, low damage sword locked foot units in a game where fighting large groups of mixed range enemies on enemy phase is super important and lances are the most common weapon type for enemies. Eliwood fixes those issues for the most part after promotion, but that's a long ways off. They have literally nothing that makes a unit good in FE7.

Hector is a lot better because he's pretty good early on when a lot of maps allow for a foot unit to get in range more, and he has arguably the best weapon type and great durability and his low speed isn't much of an issue in a game where speed isn't super important because most enemies are slow for much of the game (and the ones that aren't, at least late in the game, tend to be out of doubling range for almost everyone anyway). That said he's foot locked forever and inevitably falls behind when you have plenty of units that do everything he does but can double some extra enemies, fight bosses better and of course, actually get to things much faster than he can. And even at his best early in the game he's never your best unit for obvious reasons, so overall he's good but not great.

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Lyn CH 6
Lyn UN 5
Eliwood CH 6
Eliwood UN 6
Hector CH 10
Hector UN 9

I like the idea of having split votes but not sure how practical it will be, both in terms of the total number of characters that could be ranked and also in terms of how one-note a lot of minor characters are (or zero-note, like most of the people in FE1/11).

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Lyn CH 7
Lyn UN 6
Eliwood CH 5
Eliwood UN 6
Hector CH 9
Hector UN 8

Raka_Putra posted...

Stats/Growth

yeah i tried it out along with just listing them one after the other. i'll keep doing it if stats continue

Cybat posted...

I like the idea of having split votes but not sure how practical it will be, both in terms of the total number of characters that could be ranked and also in terms of how one-note a lot of minor characters are (or zero-note, like most of the people in FE1/11).

yeah i think the character list is definitely going to leave characters from certain games at the bottom. i don't have a problem with just giving a bunch of 1s to those guys and calling it a day for completion's sake, even if it may feel pointless in exercise.

the other thing is what to do with characters in multiple games (e.g. Ike from FE9/10). The current plan is to at least have different unit scores. Undecided on different character scores. leaning yes for sequels, no for remakes

Evillordexdeath posted...

Sol Katti is trash

Sol Katti:
MT: 12
WT: 14

Silver Sword:
MT: 13
WT: 8

"legendary"

Ah but the Sol Katti is effective against the final boss, which is valuable because it allows Lyn to...still do little to no damage. Woops!

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i actually laughed out loud thinking about my first times playing the final chapter, checking against the final boss and seeing that Lyn does 0 damage

I always knew the Sol Katti was very heavy and would weigh Lyn down a ton but with her speed it didn't really matter to me. But I didn't realize it had a lower might than a silver sword...yeesh.

Also as for the poll, I think it might be easier to group them by classes? Might not work for all the games but for easily definable games like FE7 it could work. Otherwise 4 or 5 probably.

we'll probably have days where i just shove like 10 of the shadow dragon chars in at once or something