Poll of the Day > Security guard in Michigan shot and killed for asking customer to wear mask

(+) Yeah! (+)

This country is getting more dangerous everyday. Security guard, father of 9, shot and killed in Michigan after telling customer to put on face mask.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/04/family-dollar-security-guard-killed-after-telling-shopper-wear-mask/3081674001/


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how ghetto do you gotta be that you have to shoot your way in to a DOLLAR store?

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Security guard at a dollar store? Damn, that must be a scary place to live.

that's horrific

apparently the husband and son came back later to murder the guy

Lokarin posted...

how ghetto do you gotta be that you have to shoot your way in to a DOLLAR store?

they didn't. they left and the woman told her husband, who came back and killed him

Wow. Terrible. Hopefully they catch the son and husband since they already know their names.

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Protesters in Michigan: Brings guns to to governors doorstep without incident.

Also in Michigan: Guy kills somebody over entry to a dollar store.

Two tales, yet one portrait of privilege. I really can't expand on this without getting moderated to death but I can't ignore the striking contrast.

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Hey look Zang can't find the point. What else is new.

I read the article, I know what happened.

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Veedrock- posted...

Protesters in Michigan: Brings guns to to governor's doorstep without incident.

Also in Michigan: Guy kills guard over entry to a dollar store.

Two tales, yet only one will be called privilege. I really can't expand on this without getting moderated to death but the striking contrast isn't lost to me.

You are a blatant racist

Have a good day, racist

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s0m3kat posted...

You are a blatant racist. Have a good day, racist

Who the fuck are you?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Neither do the protests but that's the story being presented isn't it? Given this is the very same state where guns are a focal point it seems fair to draw the parallel. The lady in this story screamed and spit on the guard because she didn't want to wear a mask, that reeks of privilege to me. Then the husband took offense and escalated it to murder.

This is tragic but I'm not glossing over the Covid connection. I'm not going to ignore that a peaceful group (even if they are idiots) is labeled sensitive psychos for exercising their rights, while incidents like this are occurring that get no recognition for what they are.

Mother fucker why am I falling for your trap. Enjoy having the last word as usual. I really don't care that your ignorance prevents you from inferring the connection.

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Is essence, this boils down to the fact that guns are legal in your country.

This is a fact: as long as guns are legal, insane raging lunatic idiots will also be able to get their hands on them easily. If it were possible to filter them out, that would've happened already. Problem is that lunatics can hide their lunacy when they need to. For example, when purchasing a gun. Outlawing guns would obviously mean that responsible owners give up theirs too, in order to prevent the absolute dumbest shits from shooting innocent people (which happens a whole fucking lot, there's no denying that). If that's not what your country wants, then you're basically saying "it's okay for things like this to keep happening once in a while, just don't touch mah gunz".

Combine that with shit (mental) healthcare, ridiculous soap-opera politics, the worship of money, a working culture that burns people out and widespread inequality, or the perception thereof (racism/sexism/genderism/etc), you've got some pretty decent ingredients for a disaster of a country :')

Also, hey, don't get all worked up, because (Western) Europe is just as stupid and fucked (except for guns and healthcare).

paulisdabomb posted...

Is essence, this boils down to the fact that guns are legal in your country.

No. It's that we've created a culture where violence is a solution. The tool of choice is not the issue, whether it's hurtful words or guns, the intend to harm is the same.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

No. It's that we've created a culture where violence is a solution. The tool of choice us not the issue, whether it's hurtful words or guns, the intend to harm is the same.

Okay so, you believe that violent behaviour can be conditioned out of a people? Would you say, historically, that humans voluntarily resort to peaceful means to resolve conflicts?

My point is, sure, behaviour is worse than guns, but outlawing guns would solve this problem in a heartbeat, whereas trying to re-educate a people is kind of a challenge

Classic Zang.

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paulisdabomb posted...

Okay so, you believe that violent behaviour can be conditioned out of a people? Would you say, historically, that humans voluntarily resort to peaceful means to resolve conflicts?

My point is, sure, behaviour is worse than guns, but outlawing guns would solve this problem in a heartbeat, whereas trying to re-educate a people is kind of a challenge

It wouldn't solve anything as long as people are choosing violence. We all know violence is bad and yet so many still turn to it. Our countries run on it.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

It wouldn't solve anything as long as people are choosing violence. We all know violence is bad and yet so many still turn to it. Our countries run on it.

And you know that it wouldn't solve anything because...? Has it been attempted? I don't think so. No offence, but your argument doesn't make sense to me, it's not even really an argument tbh. If violent people have fewer means to be violent, then even if the behaviour or urge is still present, it won't be able to manifest itself as much, often or severe. Excuse my graphic example, but beating someone to death (in world were guns are outlawed) or simply pulling a trigger, are two very different things. This means violence would naturally drop if guns aren't an option.

All I really see is unwillingness to change, or even to try. It's sad :(

Murderers:

paulisdabomb posted...

All I really see is unwillingness to change, or even to try. It's sad :(

You don't fix the brain by chopping off a foot.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

You don't fix the brain by chopping off a foot.

You should brush up on biology, guns are not feet.

Guns don't tell people to hurt each other. We tell each other to hurt each other.

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Guns don't tell people to hurt each other. We tell each other to hurt each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqkVNHwJfKc

lol

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This is the sort of incident that absolutely deserves the death penalty. The person that does something like this over being told they need to wear a mask is irredeemable garbage and does not deserve a second chance. Get rid of them. The entire family that was involved. When the father and son are found, don't arrest them. Just gun them down. There's video footage of them doing it, there's no doubt that it was them. No need for a trial.


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Veedrock- posted...

I'm not going to ignore that a peaceful group

The fact that you're referring to an armed militia forcing their way into the capitol building as a "peaceful group" tells me you aren't exactly unbiased on the matter. Protip: If you're peaceful, you don't need to threaten lethal violence to make your point. Every single one of those people should be thrown in jail like the terrorists they unambiguously are.

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paulisdabomb posted...

Is essence, this boils down to the fact that guns are legal in your country.

This is a fact: as long as guns are legal, insane raging lunatic idiots will also be able to get their hands on them easily. If it were possible to filter them out, that would've happened already. Problem is that lunatics can hide their lunacy when they need to. For example, when purchasing a gun. Outlawing guns would obviously mean that responsible owners give up theirs too, in order to prevent the absolute dumbest shits from shooting innocent people (which happens a whole fucking lot, there's no denying that). If that's not what your country wants, then you're basically saying "it's okay for things like this to keep happening once in a while, just don't touch mah gunz".

Combine that with shit (mental) healthcare, ridiculous soap-opera politics, the worship of money, a working culture that burns people out and widespread inequality, or the perception thereof (racism/sexism/genderism/etc), you've got some pretty decent ingredients for a disaster of a country :')

Also, hey, don't get all worked up, because (Western) Europe is just as stupid and fucked (except for guns and healthcare).

I promise you that the killer did not own that gun legally, and probably wasn't even allowed to have guns at all

All banning guns will do in America is prevent law abiding citizens from protecting themselves. People like this dude will still 100% have just as easy access to guns.

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Bugmeat posted...

This is the sort of incident that absolutely deserves the death penalty. The person that does something like this over being told they need to wear a mask is irredeemable garbage and does not deserve a second chance. Get rid of them. The entire family that was involved. When the father and son are found, don't arrest them. Just gun them down. There's video footage of them doing it, there's no doubt that it was them. No need for a trial.

Fucking agree!
Cases like this where they're so clearly evil and the evidence is obvious, not only should there be the death penalty, but the process should be expedited, no 10+ years of appeals. That makes sense when there's some sort of doubt or if the death penalty may have been too harsh. This case is neither of those things. These fuckers, Dylan Roof, that Cruz guy that shot up the high school a few years ago.... All of them could be shot tomorrow and it'd be just fine.

SunWuKung420 posted...

The tool of choice is not the issue, whether it's hurtful words or guns, the intend to harm is the same.

The tool of choice being a gun does make the outcome being death more likely.

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SirPikachu posted...

I promise you that the killer did not own that gun legally, and probably wasn't even allowed to have guns at all

All banning guns will do in America is prevent law abiding citizens from protecting themselves. People like this dude will still 100% have just as easy access to guns.

which is why its long past time to start putting some serious restrictions on the weapons manufacturers

There shouldnt be more guns than there are people in the US

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SirPikachu posted...

I promise you that the killer did not own that gun legally, and probably wasn't even allowed to have guns at all

All banning guns will do in America is prevent law abiding citizens from protecting themselves. People like this dude will still 100% have just as easy access to guns.

That only makes the situation more dire, and America's inaction more tragic. You must realise that being able to easily get an illegal gun is a symptom of a (very) broken system, not some inevitable law of nature. And if what Mead says is true, that there are more guns than people in America, it's even worse than I thought. While the availability of huge amounts of illegal guns is easy to blame on criminals or 'bad people' or whatever, that situation was co-created by the government, gun manufacturers and yes, even by the influence of law abiding citizens.

You seem to have fallen into a trap, believing that more guns and bullets are necessary in order to protect yourself against all of the guns and bullets.

paulisdabomb posted...

That only makes the situation more dire, and America's inaction more tragic. You must realise that being able to easily get an illegal gun is a symptom of a (very) broken system, not some inevitable law of nature. And if what Mead says is true, that there are more guns than people in America, it's even worse than I thought. While the availability of huge amounts of illegal guns is easy to blame on criminals or 'bad people' or whatever, that situation was co-created by the government, gun manufacturers and yes, even by the influence of law abiding citizens.

You seem to have fallen into a trap, believing that more guns and bullets are necessary in order to protect yourself against all of the guns and bullets.

Even if no one else had guns they would still protect you against things like home invasions, attempted kidnapping, or just some really big guy with anger issues that thought you looked at him funny

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Muscles posted...

Even if no one else had guns they would still protect you against things like home invasions, attempted kidnapping, or just some really big guy with anger issues that thought you looked at him funny

This is a difference in culture and indoctrination between the US and Europe. There is no way for us to convince the other, because the concepts already lie that deep.

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SirPikachu posted...

I promise you that the killer did not own that gun legally, and probably wasn't even allowed to have guns at all

Every illegally-owned/obtained gun was legally purchased at one or more points in the supply chain. Any efforts to control the legal acquisition and ownership of guns will trickle down to affect illegal acquisition and ownership, especially if legal ownership includes requiring secure storage to prevent the theft that supplies so much of the black market (which any common sense gun control regulations do). This notion that gun control is hopeless because criminals will always have guns relies on the assumption that criminals magically make guns appear rather than purchasing them legally and selling them to other criminals. Control the former, and you control the latter.

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paulisdabomb posted...

Okay so, you believe that violent behaviour can be conditioned out of a people? Would you say, historically, that humans voluntarily resort to peaceful means to resolve conflicts?

My point is, sure, behaviour is worse than guns, but outlawing guns would solve this problem in a heartbeat, whereas trying to re-educate a people is kind of a challenge

Not by just taking away their guns. Taking away someone's guns could possibly make people more violent. In the end, even if they didn't have guns, who to say they wouldn't have went back and stabbed the guard? Violence is violence. Is just that they chose a gun as their tool this time instead of something else... You can't say the problem would have been solved by removing guns when they probably would have just tried to kill him another way...

paulisdabomb posted...

And you know that it wouldn't solve anything because...? Has it been attempted? I don't think so. No offence, but your argument doesn't make sense to me, it's not even really an argument tbh. If violent people have fewer means to be violent, then even if the behaviour or urge is still present, it won't be able to manifest itself as much, often or severe. Excuse my graphic example, but beating someone to death (in world were guns are outlawed) or simply pulling a trigger, are two very different things. This means violence would naturally drop if guns aren't an option.

All I really see is unwillingness to change, or even to try. It's sad :(

That's just an assumption, though. It could work the other way, though. To compensate, people may become more violent because they don't have guns instead. Like you said, beating someone to death and pulling the trigger are two different things.

Mead posted...

which is why its long past time to start putting some serious restrictions on the weapons manufacturers

Probably wouldn't do much. Guns can be made somewhat easily these days. I remember a friend telling me about how easy it was to make one out of basically scrap. And while it wouldn't be the best gun, it's still a gun. And the people who still make guns would probably sell them illegally, meaning that the worst of the worst would be the ones with guns still... Which wouldn't solve anything. The ones without guns would probably have been people who have never had to use their gun, or people that used their for like hunting or something...
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LinkPizza posted...

Probably wouldn't do much.

its a step in the right direction to reduce the easy access to guns both legal and illegal, most folks dont have the know how to make a gun

having a gun is a right but also a responsibility that far too many gun owners dont seem to recognize

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Mead posted...

most folks dont have the know how to make a gun

I would think this is because they don't have to know. By taking away guns, many would learn quickly. I mean, you can look up how to make one. The guy who made one out of a shovel (IIRC) shows exactly how he made it. And with 3D printers, it just becomes easier. I think it's worse if the only people who have guns are the worst of the bunch. I'm not saying everyone should have them. But that's probably better than only the worst people having them...
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Veedrock- posted...

Hey look Zang can't find the point. What else is new.

I read the article, I know what happened.

what point do you have though

you can't tell someone that they don't get the point, but then refuse to actually elaborate on said point.

that just screams that you don't actually have a point.

paulisdabomb posted...

And you know that it wouldn't solve anything because...? Has it been attempted? I don't think so. No offence, but your argument doesn't make sense to me, it's not even really an argument tbh. If violent people have fewer means to be violent, then even if the behaviour or urge is still present, it won't be able to manifest itself as much, often or severe. Excuse my graphic example, but beating someone to death (in world were guns are outlawed) or simply pulling a trigger, are two very different things. This means violence would naturally drop if guns aren't an option.

All I really see is unwillingness to change, or even to try. It's sad :(

except that, if someone wants to cause violence, they absolutely will, as proven by, uh, fucking everywhere.

this situation is not unique to just america, regardless of how you keep trying to write your narrative. we have ample evidence of where guns are outlawed in other countries, and instead people go on stabbing sprees, or use other implements to cause havoc.

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