Current Events > Zero Puntuation and RLM debate if Dark Souls should have difficulty settings

(+) Yeah! (+)

For 8.5 minutes

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/should-games-like-dark-souls-have-difficulty-settings-slightly-civil-war/

What does CE think?
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Dark Souls no

However it could have easily been done in Sekiro since there's no multiplayer aspect.
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voldothegr8 posted...

Dark Souls no

However it could have easily been done in Sekiro since there's no multiplayer aspect.

Obligatory "No bell with Kuro's Charm is easy mode."

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I dont like any game having difficulty settings. Create a balanced and challenging gameplay experience.

On most games that have them hard ends up being the sweet spot with normal too easy and very hard exactly that.

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Ugh please don't equate Jack with RLM

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The way they talk or how it's edited makes the "debate" feel weird and scripted or something.

I wouldn't call Jack "RLM". Yeah, he's been closely associated with them for a long time, but he's not one of the main 3 who actually works as RLM. Redlettermedia is Mike, Jay, and Rich.

It wasn't perfect, but I miss Pre-Rec. This made me think of that.

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KillerSlaw posted...

Ugh please don't equate Jack with RLM

Doesn't he work for RLM. He's always on Best of the Worst episodes and stuff.

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dont care either way since dark souls doesnt have a story the game may as well be difficult

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Southernfatman posted...

The way they talk or how it's edited makes the "debate" feel weird and scripted or something.

They feel uncomfortable because they are both arguing the side they don't agree with.

Jack especially is close minded and bad at seeing things from another perspective

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I dont like any game having difficulty settings. Create a balanced and challenging gameplay experience.

Problem is there is no such thing.

As what is "Challenging" will be different for different people.

You got guys who can beat Punch Out Blindfolded out there and guys who can't get passed the jumping tutorial in Cuphead
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What would it hurt? Dont play easy if you dont want to.

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Not all games have to be easy and diminish it's fun

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_____Cait posted...

What would it hurt? Dont play easy if you dont want to.

that's bad logic like all the people who play world of warcraft saying "well don't do lfr if you don't want to." shit like that ruins the game. difficulty is one of the things that makes dark souls quintessentially dark souls.

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Mecha Sonic posted...

Doesn't he work for RLM. He's always on Best of the Worst episodes and stuff.

He has said before that he isn't "part" of RLM and is just a guest.

I think he's also gotten upset at people for doing this because he's trying to start his own brand by branching out.

But mostly, he just kinda sucks. Especially when it comes to gaming related things. He had a show with Rich Evans before this that was super boring as fuck when they weren't just talking about RLM behind the scenes stuff.

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_____Cait posted...

What would it hurt? Dont play easy if you dont want to.

This. Dark Souls fans like to think they're in some elite club and that you aren't allowed to change anything about the games. I've tried to play Dark Souls three or four times and the merry go round of trudging through everything you already did once you go to a bon fire is just awful. I like a nice challenge in games but Dark Souls game design is just antagonistic. I'm not looking for a badge of honor, I just want to play a game.

UnfairRepresent posted...

They feel uncomfortable because they are both arguing the side they don't agree with.

That makes sense. I figured Jack would be for the difficulty settings based on his sometimes out there opinions on games.

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hakujo posted...

Not all games have to be easy and diminish it's fun

Why does it diminish the fun if it's optional?

Do people you have never met using mods to make the game easy for them diminish your fun?
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UnfairRepresent posted...

They feel uncomfortable because they are both arguing the side they don't agree with.

Jack especially is close minded and bad at seeing things from another perspective

Problem is there is no such thing.

As what is "Challenging" will be different for different people.

You got guys who can beat Punch Out Blindfolded out there and guys who can't get passed the jumping tutorial in Cuphead

Anyone who says Dark Souls was not challenging on a first play through is full of shit.

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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

Anyone who says Dark Souls was not challenging on a first play through is full of shit.

Or they are just a superior gamer to you.

Either way, you dodged my point

Guess you found it too challenging to counter, which means it must be satisfying.

Spooking posted...

The point of the Souls series is to be challenging. If you want to know the story, then visit the wiki.

This comes up in the debate. What does "The point" mean?

And why is "The Point" not to enjoy yourself?

And as I already said, what's challenging varies from person to person. Easy mode can still be a huge challenge for a lot of people.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Or they are just a superior gamer to you.

Either way, you dodged my point

Guess you found it too challenging to counter, which means it must be satisfying.

This comes up in the debate. What does "The point" mean?

And why is "The Point" not to enjoy yourself?

And as I already said, what's challenging varies from person to person. Easy mode can still be a huge challenge for a lot of people.

Nobody is superior to me. You are full of shit.

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specialkid8 posted...

This. Dark Souls fans like to think they're in some elite club and that you aren't allowed to change anything about the games. I've tried to play Dark Souls three or four times and the merry go round of trudging through everything you already did once you go to a bon fire is just awful. I like a nice challenge in games but Dark Souls game design is just antagonistic. I'm not looking for a badge of honor, I just want to play a game.

That just means the game isn't for you.

Esrac posted...

That just means the game isn't for you.

Bloodborne would absolutely be my game if it had an option for more checkpoints. How many other games can you name that do music, art style, storytelling, and Lovecraft influences like it does?

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Lmao these two have no valid opinions

From Software sets out to create an experience that puts everyone on equal footing
Not every game is for everyone
Creating multiple difficulty levels takes time and resources that From Soft may not want to devote to, when the first point is more important to them

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SSJKirby posted...

From Software sets out to create an experience that puts everyone on equal footing

Everyone also has equal footing on difficulty settings

Not every game is for everyone

So?

FTL: Faster Than Light isn't for everyone, does that mean it shouldn't include volume settings so they can intentionally give players a worse experience and less control?

Creating multiple difficulty levels takes time and resources that From Soft may not want to devote to

I agree. No one should be forced to put stuff into their game that they don't want too. I think that's why I ultimately side with "No" on the debate.

Although the question becomes why don't they want too since it would not take long to implement at all. The various fan made mods that break the game have already demonstrated that.

But it speaks volumes that this valid argument is always stated as point #16 after like #15 awful ones about some vague indefinable "point" and how other people don't deserve to have fun. It's all very entitled gatekeeping nonsense.

Reminds me of that time AVGN's Mike Metai went ham on a stream about the White Toonoki Suit in Mario that appears if you die too much. Someone in the chat asked why it bothers him since it's optional and you don't have to use it and Mike went on a really weird embarrasing rant about only the elite are allowed to beat games and no one else should be able too.

Just seems like everyone has forgotten that video games are for fun. these indefinable "points" that people can't explain but justify not having fun while wasting hours of their lives don't make sense to me.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Although the question becomes why don't they want too since it would not take long to implement at all.

For the original and "remixed" Dark Souls games the developers tailored each area to make solo and mob encounters difficult enough to be deadly, but not impossible, the very first time. Given that the whole focus of each DS game is internally *and* adjacent overlapping map encounters balanced for such experiences, few variables are easily adjustable (player character class baseline stats are so low that there's no downward flexibility for them). The only attributes left that could be directly manipulated without breaking the default connected stat bindings are health, stamina, and equipment load... and only with such adjustments directly applied as "flat" penalties or perks against stat modified values.

If these were the kinds of changes to the DS experience that developers found acceptable such options would have been included long ago in remixed edition releases. However, because the developers didn't include such options, gamers are left to adopt their own home-brew difficulty settings protocol--a simple solution for all parties involved:

1: Power-on your system.
2: Pick-up a controller.
3: Run a Dark Souls game.
4: Choose a difficulty mode.

For:
- Easy, go to step 5.
- Normal, go to step 6.
- Hard, go to step 7.
- Hardened, go to step 8.

5: Quit game and play/do something else.
6: Play NG.
7: Play NG+ through NG+5.
8: Play NG+6 and above.
.

[ Change what you can, accept what you can't, and don't let either outcome effect your enthusiasm for games. You're welcome, CE. ] :)
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You can actually adjust the difficulty for yourself depending on your build. In dark souls 3 you can wear heavy gear, use greatswords and hyperarmor through everything. Dark souls 2 let you fire off magic with now downside. There are so many cheese strats in these games.

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Jack is not really RLM, at least not a face that you can substitute RLM for his name. You can only do that with Mike/Jay/Rich.

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if you don't think dark souls has a difficulty slider built in, do me a favor. boot it up and get vit to 30 before you do anything else.
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"Should" is a really dumb word in this case

The idea that games should be accessible to everyone is stupid. Movies or books or music aren't like that. Why do people pretend video games should be.

It should be as difficult as the creator wants it to be and thats it. If the creator wants an easy/medium/hard then cool.

If they don't, then get good or find something that appeals to you instead.

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I feel like for games made for the purpose of being challenging, the introduction of difficulty modes or sliders just takes away from the time that can be better used to refine the core experience. Not every game needs to be playable by a quadriplegic using their eyes.

You have to be a special kind of entitled jackass to believe devs should be required to have more than one difficulty.

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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I dont like any game having difficulty settings. Create a balanced and challenging gameplay experience.

On most games that have them hard ends up being the sweet spot with normal too easy and very hard exactly that.

So if every game aimed for a less experienced gamer than you, it would be fine? Or are you imagining all the difficulties are gone and they now cater to your demograph specifically? Because changes in difficulty can completely shift the game

I definitely hate putting in a survival game, just to realize all the setting don't actually force you to survive. That's why I love how Dying Light can be either an action game from the beginning or a survival horror based on what difficulty you pick. Id of never got the fun I did out of it didn't add that nightmare difficulty later on.

I say make the game you wanted to, then through in harder and easier difficulties to expand your fanbase. Unless it's an artistic choice and you really had a vision for how you wanted it to be experienced. But let's be real, very few games go deep enough artistically to really flesh out their one difficulty setting.

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specialkid8 posted...

I like a nice challenge in games but Dark Souls game design is just antagonistic

So Fromsoftware change their artistic vision because some refuse to play the game and get better?

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Mecha Sonic posted...

that's bad logic like all the people who play world of warcraft saying "well don't do lfr if you don't want to." shit like that ruins the game. difficulty is one of the things that makes dark souls quintessentially dark souls.

Why does that ruin the game?

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Honestly the nature of Dark Souls / Bloodborne as RPGs means you can customize the experience to be as difficult as you want it to. You could grind levels, upgrade gear, and eventually you'll be able to brute force most, if not all the bosses.

Sekiro, on the other hand, is basically a pure action/adventure game, and could've easily had various difficulty modes because there is extremely little customization. It's more of a game based on skill and you can't brute force it. So, it might've benefited by being more accessible with an easier mode, all that needs to be done is adjust some numbers. At least, that's my biased opinion, because I hated Sekiro for its restrictive nature.

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its difficulty spikes when you dont put in any effort/focus

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CasualGuy posted...

The idea that games should be accessible to everyone is stupid. Movies or books or music aren't like that. Why do people pretend video games should be.

True but if a director refused to put subtitles or skip scene or fast forward on his DVDs and demanded Netflix didn't let you do that, because "It's not the way i tended it" then he would be seen as a weirdo

ViewtifulGrave posted...

So Fromsoftware change their artistic vision because some refuse to play the game and get better?

Some people refuse. Some people can't

Lots of people just aren't having fun

nemu posted...

I feel like for games made for the purpose of being challenging, the introduction of difficulty modes or sliders just takes away from the time that can be better used to refine the core experience.

How?

There were fan made mods that broke the game released for free on PC before most players had beaten the game.

This excuse doesn't hold water.

Not every game needs to be playable by a quadriplegic using their eyes.

I'm reminded of a scene from A Touch of Frost where a woman is like "You can't be mad that the murderer got away. You can't win every case you know." and Frost replies "I can try."

And I'm reminded of that scene here.

No, not everyone can play and beat every game. But why are options that make it more fun and more open to more people a bad thing?

No one is advocating mandatory easy modes you have to play. Just optional ones.

I mentioned earlier in the topic and you people ignored it, lets say some guy who is bad at games can never beat Dark Souls legit ever, so he uses a bunch of mods to make the game much easier. Then he plays the entire game, still finds it challenging, beats it, has a really good time.

What harm has his experience done to you?

For my part I have a friend who is about as good as Video Games as a dog and she loved RE2make conceptually but couldn't play it because she sucked at it and it was too hard. So she did a run on Assisted (Easy) with the Infinite Rocket launcher I unlocked and she still found it challenging. Had a blast.

People like you seem to be advocating that such people shouldn't have fun because their enjoyment ruins yours despite not effecting you and I just don't understand it.
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And he was never seen again
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There already is an easy mode, it's called summoning a gang of phantoms.

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Better question: "Is Dark Souls a worse game by hypothetically featuring an Easy Mode?"

To which I say no.
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Hell no

Like can you imagine that crap on hard?

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DevsBro posted...

Hell no

Like can you imagine that crap on hard?

At some point the enemy levels from various NG+ iterations will overcome all your own stats. It just takes a loooong time to unlock "hard mode"

My idea of personal hard mode was never gaining a level. The goal was to unlock the Dark Wraiths so I could invade lowbies (you match with people around your own level, you see) with a pimped out armor set and mercilessly gank 'em since I had weapon/armor upgrades galore. O&S was hard, but I eventually gave up on Four Kings. My damage output was so low I couldn't kill them quickly enough and had to deal with multiple kings at once which never ended well.
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