Current Events > 4 Senators voted no to the Emmett Till Anti-Lynching Act

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1NfamousACE_2
02/26/20 8:49:08 PM
#1:


The vote was 410-4.

The no's were Republicans Thomas Massie (Kentucky) Ted Yoho (Florida) Louie Gohmert (Texas) and Independent Justin Amash (Michigan)

4 people opposed making lynching a federal crime.

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AFrench2
02/26/20 8:49:53 PM
#2:


For fuck sake, is Louie Gohmert STILL in Congress? God he makes me sad to be a Texan..

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MachineJaipur
02/26/20 8:50:03 PM
#3:


they probably gave some petty bullshit devil's advocate argument of "We shouldn't restrict people's freedom of expression/speech" or some bullshit
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Jeff AKA Snoopy
02/26/20 8:50:19 PM
#4:


Is it possible they supported the idea but not the law as it was written?

... they are mostly Republican... >_>

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Smashingpmkns
02/26/20 8:50:49 PM
#5:


Pieces of shit
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AlisLandale
02/26/20 8:52:27 PM
#6:


Is it not already?

whats the difference between lynching and murder, in this context?

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Odoylerules
02/26/20 8:53:20 PM
#7:


Smashingpmkns posted...
Pieces of shit
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Questionmarktarius
02/26/20 8:54:35 PM
#8:


How the hell is a senate vote 410-4?
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1NfamousACE_2
02/26/20 8:55:31 PM
#9:


Questionmarktarius posted...
How the hell is a senate vote 410-4?

Shit...I fucked up

I meant Representatives

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The_Ivory_Man
02/26/20 8:56:19 PM
#11:


AlisLandale posted...
Is it not already?

whats the difference between lynching and murder, in this context?

This would make it above a murder now, which is handled by the state.

Frankly I don't exactly get the purpose of it.

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BLAKUboy
02/26/20 8:56:30 PM
#12:


Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...
Is it possible they supported the idea but not the law as it was written?

... they are mostly Republican... >_>
No, more than likely their "defense" is the classic "WHY DO THEY NEED SPECIAL RIGHTS!!!"

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Bishop9800
02/26/20 8:56:50 PM
#13:


1NfamousACE_2 posted...
The no's were Republicans Thomas Massie (Kentucky) Ted Yoho (Florida) Louie Gohmert (Texas) and Independent Justin Amash (Michigan)

4 people opposed making lynching a federal crime.


Seeing what states they are representing, it doesn't surprise me...

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Questionmarktarius
02/26/20 8:57:09 PM
#14:


1NfamousACE_2 posted...
Shit...I fucked up

I meant Representatives
So... who were the 21 representatives who didn't bother.
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1NfamousACE_2
02/26/20 8:57:44 PM
#15:


Questionmarktarius posted...
So... who were the 21 representatives who didn't bother.

Haven't been said yet

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EbonTitanium
02/26/20 9:01:15 PM
#16:


Massie has always been a pos.

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NeoShadowhen
02/26/20 9:03:02 PM
#17:


AlisLandale posted...
Is it not already?

whats the difference between lynching and murder, in this context?

It makes lynching a federal crime. I imagine most people are just yeah, sure why not.

Bishop9800 posted...
Seeing what states they are representing, it doesn't surprise me...

Texas is wildly independent so it doesnt surprise me they wouldnt want anything to become federal. The others are probably on a states rights kick.
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AlisLandale
02/26/20 9:05:16 PM
#18:


NeoShadowhen posted...
It makes lynching a federal crime. I imagine most people are just yeah, sure why not.

Yeah, I have no problem with the bill. Was just curious.

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Crazyman93
02/26/20 9:07:08 PM
#19:


AlisLandale posted...
Is it not already?

whats the difference between lynching and murder, in this context?

Lynching is either a result of mob justice, or else a hate crime. It is almost always by hanging as well. So, it's a specific kind of murder, like matricide is.
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Lebronwon
02/26/20 9:08:47 PM
#20:


Did the Bill have a lot of pork or something? Bills like this are great for that because you get to add whatever you want to it and if people vote against it you can use it against them.

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Crazyman93
02/26/20 9:09:59 PM
#21:


Questionmarktarius posted...

So... who were the 21 representatives who didn't bother.

For what it's worth, when they talk about fillibusters, what they really mean is establishing a quorum, that is to say, make sure everyone is there to vote, this is apparently virtually impossible since most representatives are running around doing other things like subcommitties, so the 21 who didn't vote were probably not even in the room for one reason or another.
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TiamatNM
02/26/20 9:12:50 PM
#22:


NeoShadowhen posted...
It makes lynching a federal crime. I imagine most people are just yeah, sure why not.

Why bother though? Just to stack more laws on the books?
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Questionmarktarius
02/26/20 9:13:20 PM
#23:


NeoShadowhen posted...
It makes lynching a federal crime. I imagine most people are just yeah, sure why not.
The text of the law creates punishment for conspiracy to violate civil rights.

Text of bill: (page 7 line 12 is where the actual law part starts)
https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20200224/BILLS-116hr35-SUSv2.pdf

Referenced parts of USC:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-13
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/3631
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Crazyman93
02/26/20 9:15:53 PM
#24:


TiamatNM posted...


Why bother though? Just to stack more laws on the books?

Honestly, "why bother" is a good question, on the basis that if you do it just because the victim was black or hispanic, or gay or whatever, it's a hate crime and I'm 80% sure that those already fall under federal jurisdiction.
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DarthDemented
02/26/20 9:19:44 PM
#25:


They probably voted no because they couldn't get any money out of it.

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1NfamousACE_2
02/26/20 9:21:43 PM
#26:


Yoho tells @mkraju just now that he opposed it because he believes its an overreach of the federal government and would infringe on states' rights.

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AlisLandale
02/26/20 9:25:26 PM
#27:


Crazyman93 posted...
Honestly, "why bother" is a good question, on the basis that if you do it just because the victim was black or hispanic, or gay or whatever, it's a hate crime and I'm 80% sure that those already fall under federal jurisdiction.

After looking it up, it seems a strong motivating factor is as a symbolic gesture. there have been attempts to make lynching a federal crime
since 1900.

In which case, I certainly have no problem with it. In a best case scenario, it gives the federal government jurisdiction if local governments wont act, and in a worst case scenario, nothing changes and some racists get pissed off.


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IShall_Run_Amok
02/26/20 9:26:53 PM
#28:


The appropriate response to this is not a felony.

The appropriate response is protesting.

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Questionmarktarius
02/26/20 9:28:29 PM
#29:


AlisLandale posted...
In which case, I certainly have no problem with it. In a best case scenario, it gives the federal government jurisdiction if local governments wont act, and in a worst case scenario, nothing changes and some racists get pissed off.
The text of the bill essentially bans the KKK, and probably also the various "Storm" something or others.
Let's go watch south freak out.
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brestugo
02/26/20 9:29:25 PM
#30:


The_Ivory_Man posted...
This would make it above a murder now, which is handled by the state.

Frankly I don't exactly get the purpose of it.
It simply criminalizes lynching at the federal level. The law is desirable because some states historically weren't exactly eager to pass or enforce anti-lynching legislation and those states may weaken or simply not enforce anti-lynching laws in the future.

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brestugo
02/26/20 9:31:49 PM
#31:


AlisLandale posted...
After looking it up, it seems a strong motivating factor is as a symbolic gesture. there have been attempts to make lynching a federal crime
since 1900.


At least 240 attempts to criminalize lynching federally since 1918.

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jumi
02/26/20 9:32:05 PM
#32:


Always a Kentucky politician embarassing us Kentuckians.

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realnifty1
02/26/20 9:39:17 PM
#33:


About 100 yeas too late, but it also doesn't exactly do what you might think if I'm reading it right.

So lynching as we most understand it already falls under the statute being amended here as it would qualify as a Hate Crime. The added section labeled as lynching defines itself as conspiracy to violate Civil Rights, commit a hate crime, or infringe on religious beliefs.

Ultimately I end with mixed feelings on this as conspiracy to violate Civil Rights could see an awfully broad application.
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Questionmarktarius
02/26/20 9:39:48 PM
#34:


brestugo posted...
It simply criminalizes lynching at the federal level.
Read it. It "simply" makes conspiracy to commit a civil rights offense equally punishable as actually committing a civil rights offense.

SEC. 3. LYNCHING.
(a) OFFENSE.Chapter 13 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
250. Lynching Whoever conspires with another person to violate section 245, 247, or 249 of this title or section 901 of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (42 U.S.C. 3631) shall be punished in the same manner as a completed violation of such section, except that if the maximum term of imprisonment for such completed violation is less than 10 years, the person may be imprisoned for not more than 10 years..
(b) TABLE OF SECTIONS AMENDMENT.The table of sections for chapter 13 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 249 the following:
250. Lynching..
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brestugo
02/26/20 9:44:43 PM
#35:


Questionmarktarius posted...
Read it. It "simply" makes conspiracy to commit a civil rights offense equally punishable as actually committing a civil rights offense.

No problem. Manson is a murderer not because he personally killed anyone but because he conspired with others to kill. It's an old precedent.

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antfair
02/26/20 9:45:51 PM
#36:


Congressmen, not senators

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Questionmarktarius
02/26/20 9:47:39 PM
#37:


brestugo posted...
No problem. Manson is a murderer not because he personally killed anyone but because he conspired with others to do kill. It's an old precedent.
Okay, that makes way more sense than whatever my Orwell/Rand paranoia was spinning up.
Thanks for that.
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#38
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1NfamousACE_2
02/26/20 9:56:20 PM
#39:


https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1232845324034695170?s=20

Conspiracy IMO is just as bad as the actual crime, so I believe he's wrong.

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#41
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Crazyman93
02/26/20 10:26:15 PM
#42:


Mr Hangman posted...
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1232845319664218112

^Rep. Amash's reasoning for his vote. He's not like other members of Congress, he considers his votes carefully and explains his reasoning for every one.

And not wanting to complicate the law by making an extra offense for something already illegal is a good reason to vote against it, this isn't something trivial or facetious. There are literally more criminal offenses on the books than teams of lawyers can even count, let alone the common man know and understand. It's a farce that that's the case and yet we also say "ignorance is not a defense". Literally no one alive can say they have not committed a crime because no one knows what all the crimes are.

That's very good reasoning, granted I may be saying this because his logic of "it's already illegal" is in line with my own thinking on the matter.
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