Board 8 > So what exactly is bad about Pokemon Sword and Shield?

(+) Yeah! (+)

If so many are so bad then why the fuck do you care if they're there or not? So that you have more to bitch about?

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HashtagSEP posted...

If so many are so bad then why the fuck do you care if they're there or not? So that you have more to bitch about?

Yes
Now go fuck yourself

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The games have some legitimate issues, but nowhere as much as people act like. Also, it being the "shortest game in the series" is laughable, that's only possible if you completely ignore the Wild Area
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Well, like it's been said, while some people certainly just want all the pokemon no matter what, the bigger issue is that Gamefreak's excuse for why they "couldn't" be implemented is quite frankly nonsense.
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Nanis23 posted...

Yes
Now go fuck yourself

Jesus you're salty.

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Nanis23 posted...

Yes
Now go fuck yourself

Atleast you're honest!

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Murphiroth posted...

Jesus you're salty.

Forgive me for wanting to make a actual discussion but instead someone asking me if I just want to bitch about something

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I'm just saying you bitch about Pokemon not being there but then you turn around and bitch about Pokemon being worthless so I'm wondering what you actually want since those seem pretty at odds

And given your typical personality, I feel it was a fair question.

Like, if your response to "There's nearly 1000" is "Well most of them are worthless anyway," then one questioning why you're bitching about them not all being there seems fair?

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Nanis23 posted...

Why not
They use the same models and they barely give a shit about balancing them. Most Pokemon are hit by power creep and were never fixed
Update movepools? With what new moves exactly? Steel Beam?
Most Pokemon are already "done" and they don't get many changes between generations as it is

Anyway
Picked a random Pokemon to prove this
Picked Clefable - Clefable can learn every move it previously could, with the addition of -

Life Dew - One of four non-exclusive new moves, the other of which are Body Press, Breaking Swipe and Steel Beam
Mega Punch - Was not a TM ever since Gen 1, but Clefable could learn it back then
Mega Kick - Was not a TM ever since Gen 1, but Clefable could learn it back then
Imprison - Was never a TM
Retaliate - Was not a TM in Gen 7 only, Clefable could have this move before
Draining Kiss - Was never a TM
Baton Pass - Was never a TM
Ally Switch - Actually was a TM, but Clefable couldn't learn it before

So yeah is it really hard to look at all the 4 new moves and whatever amount of moves that turned into TMs/TRs and then look at each Pokemon family and see if they can learn this move or not? how much time do you think it takes??
Do you really think it should take someone more than a week?

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HashtagSEP posted...

I'm just saying you bitch about Pokemon not being there but then you turn around and bitch about Pokemon being worthless so I'm wondering what you actually want since those seem pretty at odds

And given your typical personality, I feel it was a fair question.

Like, if your response to "There's nearly 1000" is "Well most of them are worthless anyway," then one questioning why you're bitching about them not all being there seems fair?

Pure collection aspect, in my part

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Honest question: If it's purely for collection, is there any reason that collection MUST be able to be transferred to every single game, and not just, say, Bank/Home, if you admit you don't even use most of it?

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It's a really wierd position to be in to be so down on this game myself, even thinking the Dex cutting was the right move. Can you imagine just how many more corners would have been cut if they actually had spent the time putting the rest of these pokemon in there? Maybe if they had cut even more the game would have turned out better.

Hbthebattle posted...

The games have some legitimate issues, but nowhere as much as people act like. Also, it being the "shortest game in the series" is laughable, that's only possible if you completely ignore the Wild Area

I mean...yeah. The online is broken and and the game runs like garbage there and crashed for me once, why wouldn't I ignore the wild area? It's neat in concept but terrible in execution.

I'm not sure we could've gotten a polished game even if they pulled a Unova and only put new Pokmon in the dex.
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I think of it less of "pokemon being cut from the game" and more "this is the chosen list of pokemon in the game", the same way I felt about DPP and such.

But, I do wish pokemon with fewer appearances show up in pokedexes more; Gyarados appears in so many more games than say, Nidoking.

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Im in a weird position where, as a guy who only played Gen 2 before stopping, the dropped dex is a feature, not a bug. Something that put me off the series was having to start back at square one each generation as the task of catching them all became more and more daunting. The past couple gens had me interested, but I just felt way too behind. Now its a shorter length, on a system I already have, and has less additive distraction even though I have already resolved not to catch em all? Sign me up.

Despite that, I understand my position is a direct contrast to most Pokmon fans perspective, mostly because I would never call myself a Pokmon fan. Not since I was 11, anyway. I think a lot of the irritation is understandable, and the internet echo chambers do what they always do. At the very least, I even told my friend aloud when I started playing that I expected the visuals of the fights to be a lot more impressive on a legit console.

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Mewtwo59 posted...

I'm not sure we could've gotten a polished game even if they pulled a Unova and only put new Pokmon in the dex.

I'm inclined to agree here. I don't think the issue is that Game Freak still has too many Pokemon, items, moves, etc. to put in the game. I think the issue is that the company is operated by risk-adverse Luddites.

For three generations now, GF has demonstrated that they... as Mallory Archer would say, "can't or won't" properly adapt to the 3D landscape. At this point, I don't see that happening unless they bring in fresh blood, and lots of it, or partner with another company.

Until one of those happens, we're just going to keep getting games that are reasonably fun for a time because the Pokemon formula is that damn good, but never rise above the level of reheated leftovers. Games like Sword and Shield.

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The Nidoran line does seem criminally underutilized, even when factoring in the GenOne prioritization out there, to the point where I wonder if Gamefreak has something against it.

trdl23 posted...

At the very least, I even told my friend aloud when I started playing that I expected the visuals of the fights to be a lot more impressive on a legit console.

Yeah, I can't think of a single other Nintendo-published Switch game that looks worse than Sword and Shield. Even Pokemon Let's Go looked better, and that definitely wasn't the prettiest girl at the dance either.

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TheCodeisBosco posted...

I'm inclined to agree here. I don't think the issue is that Game Freak still has too many Pokemon, items, moves, etc. to put in the game. I think the issue is that the company is operated by risk-adverse Luddites.

For three generations now, GF has demonstrated that they... as Mallory Archer would say, "can't or won't" properly adapt to the 3D landscape. At this point, I don't see that happening unless they bring in fresh blood, and lots of it, or partner with another company.

Until one of those happens, we're just going to keep getting games that are reasonably fun for a time because the Pokemon formula is that damn good, but never rise above the level of reheated leftovers. Games like Sword and Shield.

To steal a quote from Patrick Boivin regarding Japanese game devs (originally used towards implementing GGPO into fighting games), a huge problem with the Japanese game industry is that a whole lot of them see changes and advancements in how development works, stare at it for a bit, then just shake their heads and say "that's just not how we do things around here".

It's a stubborn industry.

TheCodeisBosco posted...

Yeah, I can't think of a single other Nintendo-published Switch game that looks worse than Sword and Shield. Even Pokemon Let's Go looked better, and that definitely wasn't the prettiest girl at the dance either.

One may argue Three Houses. I wouldn't agree, but I can see it. I think Three Houses just has way more character and embraces it's look far more.

TheCodeisBosco posted...

Yeah, I can't think of a single other Nintendo-published Switch game that looks worse than Sword and Shield. Even Pokemon Let's Go looked better, and that definitely wasn't the prettiest girl at the dance either.

It still has the edge over Fire Emblem: Three Houses.

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At least 3H has full voice acting.

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Hey I wasn't saying SwSh is a better game than 3H, I'm just saying it looks better.

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Yeah, I meant like they still allocate some resources to the presentation of the game, and fittingly they chose voice acting since it's a very character based game.

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Three Houses has like 10 times as much animation as SwSh, too <_<

Nanis23 posted...

Why not
They use the same models and they barely give a shit about balancing them. Most Pokemon are hit by power creep and were never fixed
Update movepools? With what new moves exactly? Steel Beam?
Most Pokemon are already "done" and they don't get many changes between generations as it is

This basically. They could just port over any mon they didn't use for the main game as is from the previous gen.

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StealThisSheen posted...

This is actually not a fair description of it.

They imported the meshes, which is common, but most everything else was new. There was a link of somebody comparing everything that goes into it, and there's a lot of different shading and maps that changed.

astounding how much people perpetually look past this

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What trdl said is basically the biggest problem with this game. It's better for people who haven't played Pokmon in a long time rather than long term fans of the series, which is bad because that's what Let's Go was supposed to be. Heck, Game Freak called this one the game for the hardcore fans.
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MichelBollinger posted...

I mean...yeah. The online is broken and and the game runs like garbage there and crashed for me once, why wouldn't I ignore the wild area? It's neat in concept but terrible in execution.

Because its still an important part of the game, and arguing that the game is the shortest and has no exploration while ignoring the Wild Area, which does have both, is simply lying. Its like ignoring any other major feature of a game and saying it doesnt count.
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HashtagSEP posted...

Honest question: If it's purely for collection, is there any reason that collection MUST be able to be transferred to every single game, and not just, say, Bank/Home, if you admit you don't even use most of it?

Whaf if I tell you I like to make a living dex in every single game? (well besides legendaries because what can you do)
Yes, I am aware it's MY problem and not something people usually do...but I am also the guy that wasted 20 hours or more getting every Gigantamax Pokemon with a Hidden Ability so...

trdl23 posted...

Something that put me off the series was having to start back at square one each generation as the task of catching them all became more and more daunting.

I don't get this. I never did. Ever since like...Black and White? filling the regional dex was enough. Then in Sun and Moon there wasn't even a national dex, but you could use all the Pokemon.

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... But it doesn't work...

I am playing on handheld mode and I never had any problem with the Wild Area
The only problem is when you are online
I know it's not a solution but you can enjoy the Wild Area in offline mode

I mean sure I am not going to defend the shitty online but...it can be a non-issue

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MichelBollinger posted...

... But it doesn't work...

How does it not work? Even if its laggy at times, that doesnt change that there is still stuff to do in it.
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When y'all say no dungeons, do y'all mean caves? Cause those suck

I watched her traverse a few routes and that looked fine

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Painful mediocrity from a studio that appears to have completely checked out, which hurts doubly because this was supposed to be Pokemon's big home console debut.

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By 'dungeons' they mean literally anything that isn't a route or a town

IMO swsh has still been fun and I don't regret buying it but I'm also not jumping to buy the next one

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Heroic Bigpun posted...

When y'all say no dungeons, do y'all mean caves? Cause those suck

I watched her traverse a few routes and that looked fine

No major caves. No team headquarters. No fun extra areas. Basically just linear paths and a few short mines to walk through when they felt like there were too many sequential roads. Even the wild area is established as part of the game. While you can voluntarily return later, it doesn't feel like something you found through exploration.

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Hbthebattle posted...

How does it not work? Even if its laggy at times, that doesnt change that there is still stuff to do in it.

The online raids don't work.

Heroic Bigpun posted...

When y'all say no dungeons, do y'all mean caves? Cause those suck

I watched her traverse a few routes and that looked fine

There are no side areas at all.

Heroic Bigpun posted...

When y'all say no dungeons, do y'all mean caves? Cause those suck

I watched her traverse a few routes and that looked fine

Caves, forests, buildings (like Silph Co or Cinnabar Mansion)..Nothing

This is as complex as it gets
https://imgur.com/S0miN8M

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I didn't buy the game, decided against it even before the whole Dexit thing, but I'm sure Sword and Shield is fun. But considering how the Switch has produced some of the best Nintendo games in their respective series such as Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, and Three Houses, the fact that Sword and Shield is just another Pokemon game looks even worse because it should be a lot better than its predecessors.

Also, since it sold really well like all Pokemon games it gives Game Freak no reason to change up anything. It sucks that we'll never get a truly great Pokemon game when this jump to the Switch should have been the time to do it.

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MichelBollinger posted...

The online raids don't work.

They have worked for me, try doing raids with people on your friend list and not randos
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Randos not working means it doesn't work.....

Randos works for me. There are certain times it's not as consistent, but it has worked more than it hasn't.

Though yeah doing it with people actually on your friends list is definitely the way to go.

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Bringing up Three Houses is interesting, because it's likely that the next game for both Fire Emblem and Pokemon is a remake of the fourth one. When I was playing Three Houses, I was excited for what a Genealogy of the Holy War remake would look like. Looking at Sword and Shield, I don't want a Diamond and Pearl remake because it'll be a disappointment with the way Game Freak has been recently. The worst part? I just played Genealogy for the first time last summer, while I haven't played non-randomized DPP in nearly a decade. I love both of those games, but I'm only looking forward to replaying one of them, and it's the one I just played through.

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DPPt's remake would pretty much automatically be an improvement because it wouldn't have Gen 4's slowness or saving issues and especially no HMs
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Remaking a lot of data
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I think a pretty good example highlighting the difference between SwSh and older games is looking at the climactic dungeon. Compare exploring Team Rocket/Aqua/Magma's hideouts, climbing Goldenrod Tower or Mt. Coronet to the tower in this game. You ride a single elevator up the tower while unable to move your character and do three battles and boom, you've reached the end.

I may be in the minority, but I don't really miss the dungeons.

Move three steps, trainer battle. Move three steps, teleport or HM or card key puzzle. Move three steps, trainer battle. Move three steps, teleport or HM or card key puzzle.

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add ten zubats and fifteen geodudes and this is accurate

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Say what you will about genwunners, but dungeons/caves were IMO decisively at their best in Gens 1 and 2 (esp. 2). The Safari Zone, Silph Co. and Kanto Victory Road are truly exciting to explore. GSC areas like Ice Cave, Goldenrod Underground and Whirl Islands are perhaps even better and were highly ambitious for their era.

The dungeon designs fell off hard in Gen III though, IMO, and never fully recovered.

I really just miss a full-fledged Victory Road at this point, because you can always count on those "Ace Trainer" types being enjoyable to fight.

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