Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 255: A Holiday Present From Tulsi

(+) Yeah! (+)

red13n posted...

I think part of the problem you are having with this is you are thinking too low scale on shared persons people could admire. Unless you are going to go towards athletes(Who honestly, are really not good role models), there isn't a lot of people that could get mass-admiration on a national level.

I'm aware of this mind you and I believe Jakyl is too, it's that for both Jakyl and I our thoughts immediately don't go to "the president" when we think of admirable qualities, and we find it a bit of an unfortunate cultural byproduct that most people do

Paratroopa1 posted...

But I think people who pick a President are deeply lacking in imagination and would do well to find better role models

This nails it.

Like is a President really the best youve got?
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Who's your most admired person

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Paratroopa1 posted...

The most admirable people to me are those whose hard work and sacrifices create more good for others than for themselves, and those who set good examples for how to be a good person in their daily lives, even when the cameras aren't on them

Mind you, I understand why the people with the largest platforms get the most votes here, all of the great nobodies in our world won't get votes for the simple reason that they aren't well known enough to have vote consolidation. But I think people who pick a President are deeply lacking in imagination and would do well to find better role models

Don't look at me, back when we were in school and they'd ask the standard journal question of "who do you admire the most", elementary school me used to answer that the person I admire most is myself. It was always a weird question because most of the class would put an athlete or an actor and I think I always had an understanding that those people had an innate gift and the presentation they provide in public never really matched their true self, so you never really know much about them personally. So I admired myself for recognizing my classmates were mostly naive idiots(I didn't actually write this part).

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Jakyl25 posted...

This nails it.

Like is a President really the best youve got?

Keep in mind a lot of people are really lacking in good role models. Not everyone has a great family or access to a good support system. So for a lot of people what they see in public or on TV or whatever is all they have.

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The reason I can't think of who my most admired person is I think revolves around the fact that the qualities I find most admirable in people are the ones that lead me to not know their names. In modern society, merely having the ability to gain popularity on a national stage usually involves some serious character defects that would lead a person to even WANT that and to pursue it. That's not to say that there are no good people working in the highest offices and occupying the largest platforms, but there's an anti-correlation, because humility is my most admired attribute.

red13n posted...

Keep in mind a lot of people are really lacking in good role models. Not everyone has a great family or access to a good support system. So for a lot of people what they see in public or on TV or whatever is all they have.

Believe me, I'm aware - I'm not really mad at people who picked Obama, they could have done so much worse, their pick at least doesn't reveal anything unflattering about their own character

Upon reflection, probably the best thing I can say about Obama is that he's so closely scrutinized that if he happened to be a really shitty person behind the scenes, we would all know about it by now, so he probably is a relatively decent person

This is the other problem I have with admiring people, we all only have parasocial relationships with our leaders and cultural icons, it's extremely difficult to trust them and their virtues knowing that so many of them are doomed to disappoint us in the end when we discover that they aren't as nice as the faces they put on for the public

Again, this doesn't mean that every public figure is an asshole, just that it's hard to keep expectations too high for any particular human being. Most of us are flawed to one degree or another, the truly saintly among us are rare, and they don't typically become President

LordoftheMorons posted...

Who's your most admired person

Maybe this is the crux of the issue because the answer should be no one.

Real people should not be on a pedestal.
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Oh wait, never mind, its Logan Paul

/s
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Actually younger me had 2 answers to that question. Answer 1 was myself.

Answer 2 was my dad because he was a horrible alcoholic+drug addict among other things and the admiration was to be absolutely nothing that he was.

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Maybe the answers are in my sig

Eddie Guerrero and Blinking White Guy
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I think there is confusion between "person I most admire" and "person admired by the most number of people".

The former might be someone like my father who I admire greatly. But my father is not going to be admired by very many people. Not that many people know my father. So if they are listing the people who are most admired and not the people who are most admirable then you are going to end up with results leaning towards people who (A) are known by everyone and (B) have a lot of fans, whether they deserve them or not.

There is no sense getting lost in the weeds quibbling about this.

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Mike Bloomberg trying hard to make working in a hypothetical Bloomberg White House even less appealing than working in the Trump White House:

https://twitter.com/MikeBloomberg/status/1211781268922359810

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how does there exist any human being that thinks that's an attractive pitch

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To a billionaire that is the equivalent of wielding a shovel and working the trenches shoulder to shoulder with the common man.

Shockingly billionaires are often out of touch.

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red13n posted...

Can you not admire how good of a fucking speaker Hitler is? The dude is literally politically invincible because he is just so goddamn good at speaking words. Is that somehow not admirable?

yike

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https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1212010733216641027?s=21

Good thing Republicans are known for caring a lot about attacks on our embassies
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/1212010733216641027?s=21

Good thing Republicans are known for caring a lot about attacks on our embassies

https://twitter.com/thestevennabil/status/1211952280074780674?s=21

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We should have just obliterated Iraq, got Saddam, ensured no nuclear weapons, and left. We wasted so much money trying to build that country up just for it to be an Iranian puppet.

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Apropos of nothing: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcdonalds-junction-city-controversy-kansas-police-officer-fabricated-story-about-being-served-mcdonalds-coffee/

Corrik7 posted...

We should have just obliterated Iraq, got Saddam, ensured no nuclear weapons, and left. We wasted so much money trying to build that country up just for it to be an Iranian puppet.

We should have just left Iraq alone in the first place you mean considering all we did was fuck things up and had no plan.

Corrik7 posted...

We should have just obliterated Iraq, got Saddam, ensured no nuclear weapons, and left. We wasted so much money trying to build that country up just for it to be an Iranian puppet.

Just to be clear, are you criticizing George W Bush here?

(And also Obama but thats a given.)
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Also if we obliterated Iraq and then left I dont see how that stops it from becoming an Iranian puppet
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Totally shocked to see this mercenary fucker pop up in Venezuela too:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1211804280199557120?s=21

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It would be an Iranian puppet that would only cost 12 tril and not 14 tril

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Reg posted...

Apropos of nothing: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcdonalds-junction-city-controversy-kansas-police-officer-fabricated-story-about-being-served-mcdonalds-coffee/

Of all the stories from the last year, this is the one where the cop is out of a job?

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Also I feel like the falsification rate of offensive thing written on other thing has to be close to 100% at this point right?

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Of all the stories from the last year, this is the one where the cop is out of a job?

Even the thin blue line does not tolerate besmirching the golden arches
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Jakyl25 posted...

Also if we obliterated Iraq and then left I dont see how that stops it from becoming an Iranian puppet

We wouldn't have poured all our money into it for it to become one. We paid for an Iranian puppet. We should have let them build themselves up.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Just to be clear, are you criticizing George W Bush here?

(And also Obama but thats a given.)

The Iraq War itself was fine and a resounding success. It was everything after that was the issue. We should have had Mission Accomplished and See Ya Later. We worried too much about public opinion than making a sound tactical decision for our own country.

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Corrik7 posted...

The Iraq War itself was fine and a resounding success. It was everything after that was the issue. We should have had Mission Accomplished and See Ya Later. We worried too much about public opinion than making a sound tactical decision for our own country.

It was a yes or no question
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Corrik7 posted...

The Iraq War itself was fine and a resounding success. It was everything after that was the issue. We should have had Mission Accomplished and See Ya Later. We worried too much about public opinion than making a sound tactical decision for our own country.

That war was started because Saddam supposedly had WMDs.

He did not have WMDs.

Therefore it was quite the opposite of a success.

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TheRock1525 posted...

That war was started because Saddam supposedly had WMDs.

He did not have WMDs.

Therefore it was quite the opposite of a success.

The war was started because the UN had a resolution that if Iraq did not allow investigators in to monitor them that it could be enforced with armed conflict.

Iraq purposely flaunted this and faced the stated consequence. I give two shits whether they actually had nukes. I care that a country that had a resolution for beginning war with purposely flaunted that resolution, was mass murdering it's own citizens, and was a stated threat to the United States.


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Suprak the Stud posted...

Of all the stories from the last year, this is the one where the cop is out of a job?

As far as I can tell, the cop resigned. Wasn't even fired.

Also in what universe did we stay in Iraq for 10 years because of public opinion demanding it?
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Lets end the year on a bipartisan note

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/trump-signs-robo-call-bill/index.html

This is something only a libertarian could disagree with
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Jakyl25 posted...

Also in what universe did we stay in Iraq for 10 years because of public opinion demanding it?

This one. Since we invaded them and toppled their government, the world felt we were responsible for installing a new government and rebuilding them. When we should have just left. If we wanted to stay, we should have kept them under our dominion and without democracy. Which would be against stated goal, so we should have just up and left.

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Corrik7 posted...

The war was started because the UN had a resolution that if Iraq did not allow investigators in to monitor them that it could be enforced with armed conflict.

Actually they were allowing inspectors in. The United States in particular escalated by misinterpreting intelligence reports.

Jakyl25 posted...

Lets end the year on a bipartisan note

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/politics/trump-signs-robo-call-bill/index.html

This is something only a libertarian could disagree with

Oh hey I literally got one of these calls not ten minutes ago.

It literally left a voicemail that only started recording part way through its automated message

Corrik7 posted...

This one. Since we invaded them and toppled their government, the world felt we were responsible for installing a new government and rebuilding them. When we should have just left. If we wanted to stay, we should have kept them under our dominion and without democracy. Which would be against stated goal, so we should have just up and left.

Congrats ISIS now owns a country.

What do you do?

Wow Corrik has found a way to be Lawful Neutral about the Iraq War
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Also I like the precedent that if the UN tells us to do something or else there will be an armed invasion, we bring on our own destruction by not doing it
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Leafeon13N posted...

Congrats ISIS now owns a country.

What do you do?

Destroy their military capabilities and leave again.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Also I like the precedent that if the UN tells us to do something or else there will be an armed invasion, we bring on our own destruction by not doing it

No point to make lines in the sand and not enforce them. This was Obama's weakness.

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You still never answered me as to whether or not you are criticizing Bush for his part in extending our stay in Iraq
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Corrik7 posted...

Destroy their military capabilities and leave again.

This is actually a really amazing money making scam for the military industrial complex

Sell weapons to Middle Eastern countries
Some of those weapons inevitably leak out to terrorists
Sell weapons to the US to go destroy them

Wash, rinse, repeat
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Corrik7 posted...

Destroy their military capabilities and leave again.

But they don't just have military capabilities. They have total control of Iraq oil reserves. With this economic might they now have spread influence over almost the entire Middle East.

Taking out military targets proves ineffectual as vasts amount of oil keeps them in power.

What do you do?

Jakyl25 posted...

This is actually a really amazing money making scam for the military industrial complex

Sell weapons to Middle Eastern countries
Some of those weapons inevitably leak out to terrorists
Sell weapons to the US to go destroy them

Wash, rinse, repeat

Our responsibility is to the American Citizens. Whether they let their country descend into chaos shouldn't be a main concern of the United States. What should be a concern of the United States is when there is a threat to American Citizens.

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Corrik7 posted...

No point to make lines in the sand and not enforce them. This was Obama's weakness.

But what if the UN tells the US to do something and we refuse?

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