Current Events > the rise of skywalker shows that if you pander to fans, then it'll be loved

(+) Yeah! (+)

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

"Rian Johnson shit on the old characters" is just code for "I disagree with what he did with Luke but I am wrong every time I try to argue it and you guys keep making me feel bad". Nobody ever argues about Chewie or Leia's characterization, its just Luke. And they are wrong.

"People who disagree with me are wrong and that's the end of that" is not a particularly good way to convince people that you're right
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

"People who disagree with me are wrong and that's the end of that" is not a particularly good way to convince people that you're right

Those people aren't the types who want actual discussion.

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Everyone keeps talking about the fan service of Rise of Skywalker.

Did you not notice all the fan service in The Force Awakens? It was also cringey, in every single scene, with like everything.

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I guess I was right to avoid the new trilogy, sounds like it ended up an even bigger shitshow than the prequels.
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i mean it's not entirely fair to assume that every person who disliked luke's characterization did for this, but a large segment of them dislike it solely because it displays Luke at a vulnerable and incredibly low point. but like, it's part of his arc for the movie. he gets better. it's like they were so put off by his initial scenes that they just refused to give it any kind of chance

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

"People who disagree with me are wrong and that's the end of that" is not a particularly good way to convince people that you're right

Sorry, but thats my observation. I have never seen anyone make a compelling case for Luke's character being 'ruined' that didn't boil down to hurt feelings due to their own misunderstanding his character. And since this rodeo has gone on for two years and the light bulb never came on, they're angry at everyone else too.

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Delirious_Beard posted...

i mean it's not entirely fair to assume that every person who disliked luke's characterization did for this, but a large segment of them dislike it solely because it displays Luke at a vulnerable and incredibly low point. but like, it's part of his arc for the movie. he gets better. it's like they were so put off by his initial scenes that they just refused to give it any kind of chance

Because him giving up like that is not in his character. At all. The same man who didn't give up on his own father, someone he never knew, suddenly gives up on his own nephew based on literally nothing? Bullshit.

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dave_is_slick posted...

Because him giving up like that is not in his character. At all. The same man who didn't give up on his own father, someone he never knew, suddenly gives up on his own nephew based on literally nothing? Bullshit.

what? he basically got a force vision that his nephew would become space Hitler. you think it's completely out of character for him to consider what he did? and even then the entire point of it all is that he doesn't go through with it.

again, the reason luke didn't give up on his father is because he "sensed good in him". how is that any different than Luke giving up on Ben because he "sensed evil in him"?

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You watched the Watchmen series, P?

How did you feel about Yahya Abdul Mateen's monster dong
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Luke almost killed Vader. Having a brush with the dark side via fear is absolutely in his character

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Delirious_Beard posted...

what? he basically got a force vision that his nephew would become space Hitler. you think it's completely out of character for him to consider what he did? and even then the entire point of it all is that he doesn't go through with it.

again, the reason luke didn't give up on his father is because he "sensed good in him". how is that any different than Luke giving up on Ben because he "sensed evil in him"?

Because his father literally was space Hitler. Don't give that bull about him sensing evil, Vader was the embodiment of evil. He didn't give up on the literal embodiment of evil so why would it ever cross his mind to kill someone who wasn't?

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ledbowman posted...

Luke almost killed Vader. Having a brush with the dark side via fear is absolutely in his character

At the constant goading of someone else. He was perfectly civil with him before old Palpy started doing his thing.

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I really don't understand how poor an understanding someone would need to have of storytelling, character development and Star Wars to think Rian Johnson somehow shit on anything that went before or did anything all that unconventional or illogical.

dave_is_slick posted...

At the constant goading of someone else. He was perfectly civil with him before old Palpy started doing his thing.

Move those goalposts lmao

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ledbowman posted...

Move those goalposts lmao

Yes, lets ignore the fact that they were perfectly civil.

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Vyrulisse posted...

Are we pretending the TLJ was original and good now? Fucking LOL. Shitting on beloved characters and ignoring established lore is not brave and it certainly isn't original. Rian is a hack and his movie sucked.

That and TLJ did nothing new. Every time it was about to finally do something bold, the movie would just be like SIKE JK!

p-m posted...

I really don't understand how poor an understanding someone would need to have of storytelling, character development and Star Wars to think Rian Johnson somehow shit on anything that went before or did anything all that unconventional or illogical.

Killing off the main villain in the second movie of a trilogy is pretty illogical.

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au_gold posted...

Killing off the main villain in the second movie of a trilogy is pretty illogical.

If you thought Snoke was the main villain I seriously question your intelligence. It was always Kylo Ren and he was never supposed to be a traditional villain.

au_gold posted...

Killing off the main villain in the second movie of a trilogy is pretty illogical.

they didn't kill off kylo tho

yet

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In retrospect I wonder why KOTOR 2 didn't get a lot of backlash. That had significantly more whiplash than TLJ. I guess the games can get away with more experimental stuff.

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p-m posted...

If you thought Snoke was the main villain I seriously question your intelligence. It was always Kylo Ren and he was never supposed to be a traditional villain.

Right. Kylo was supposed to be a conflicted character. Hence, Snoke being the main villain. He was literally given the same introduction that the Emperor got in ESB.

Or are you going to tell me the Emperor wasnt the main villain of the OT?

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Eventually all discourse concerning Star Wars will just be people slapping massive air quotes around the other side's talking points and flinging them back across the aisle, until no one actually remembers which side they started on in the first place.

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PrideOfLion posted...

I thought the consensus was that KOTOR 2 sucked. Only in the last couple of years (since the Disney trilogy started probably) has it reversed where people liked it

Edit: Also the cutting room floor mod getting finished helped its reception

not really. but it has grown in popularity over the years.

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PrideOfLion posted...

I thought the consensus was that KOTOR 2 sucked. Only in the last couple of years (since the Disney trilogy started probably) has it reversed where people liked it

Edit: Also the cutting room floor mod getting finished helped its reception

Nope it was widely loved and acclaimed from the start, people just recognized it has some missing content. People have been calling it the best Star Wars game way before Disney bought Star Wars.

PrideOfLion posted...

I thought the consensus was that KOTOR 2 sucked. Only in the last couple of years (since the Disney trilogy started probably) has it reversed where people liked it

Edit: Also the cutting room floor mod getting finished helped its reception

People didn't like the ending but it didn't have an overall bad consensus that I remember.

But yeah it has gained popularity. I think that's more due to Obsidian than Disney.

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ledbowman posted...

Move those goalposts lmao

Why do you keep saying this when it's not happening

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Its interesting looking at the trilogy as a whole. It offers different experiences.

• Cautious nostalgic retread.
• Bold subversion of expectations.
• Pure fan service.

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No it shows if you make an entertaining Star Wars movie people will like it. How fucking novel!

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

"Rian Johnson shit on the old characters" is just code for "I disagree with what he did with Luke but I am wrong every time I try to argue it and you guys keep making me feel bad". Nobody ever argues about Chewie or Leia's characterization, its just Luke. And they are wrong.

"I'm going to destroy the First Order fleet by flying into it. I can't believe I'm the first person in the galaxy to do this!"
"No, you can't sacrifice yourself to take out the bad guys. I'm going to crash into you and probably kill us both so the main baddie can then infiltrate our makeshift base and kill the rest of us"

Even RJ's new characters are shit.

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Star Wars fans can never figure out whether or not they want to be pandered to

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lol

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sondast posted...

"I'm going to destroy the First Order fleet by flying into it. I can't believe I'm the first person in the galaxy to do this!"
"No, you can't sacrifice yourself to take out the bad guys. I'm going to crash into you and probably kill us both so the main baddie can then infiltrate our makeshift base and kill the rest of us"

Even RJ's new characters are shit.

Those aren't old characters.

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sondast posted...

"I'm going to destroy the First Order fleet by flying into it. I can't believe I'm the first person in the galaxy to do this!"
"No, you can't sacrifice yourself to take out the bad guys. I'm going to crash into you and probably kill us both so the main baddie can then infiltrate our makeshift base and kill the rest of us"

Even RJ's new characters are shit.

Is this really how yall watch movies

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Those aren't old characters.

That's why I said they were new characters. Shitting on old characters was just one piece of shit on the shit pile of TLJ. New/nearly new characters are easy to write about and RJ couldn't even accomplish that.

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