Board 8 > Star Wars Episode 9 Discussion SPOILERS

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Does he even know what Finn was supposed? Isn't it even possible that it was never decided what Finn was supposed to be trying to say?
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

Does he even know what Finn was supposed? Isn't it even possible that it was never decided what Finn was supposed to be trying to say?

https://twitter.com/JohnBoyega/status/1209465595621781504

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Also it's good to see some Star Wars traditions never die.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/jj-abrams-rey-kylo-ren-star-wars-kiss-explained-1202199074/

There is as much of a brother-sister thing between Rey and Kylo Ren as there is a romantic thing, Abrams said. So its not like literally a sexual, romantic thing, but its more like theyre bound together in this movie in a crazy, spiritual way that, again, felt romantic to me.

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Throughout this entire messy trilogy, no matter what you think of each movie, can we at least agree that Adam Driver killed it and is the only unquestionably good thing throughout?

I feel like "Kylo Ren sucks" is the easiest way to know you can ignore someone when talking about this franchise.

I will agree Adam Driver did the best with what he was given. I wouldn't call Kylo himself an amazing character though.

He should probably get a checkup though, he's got to have some herniated discs from how hard he carried them sequels.

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FFDragon posted...

I will agree Adam Driver did the best with what he was given. I wouldn't call Kylo himself an amazing character though.

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FFDragon posted...

https://twitter.com/JohnBoyega/status/1209465595621781504

I dont know. I think it's pretty reasonable to piece together that's what he wanted to say. A lot of Finns overall character and how he has been marketed had to do with a sort of "connection" with the force too, much more so than any other member of the cast besides Rey and Kylo.

KokoroAkechi posted...

I dont know. I think it's pretty reasonable to piece together that's what he wanted to say.

https://twitter.com/JohnBoyega/status/1210364666213470213

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Adam Driver himself as Kylo Ren is definitely more what I'm talking about. I would LOVE to see more expanded content with him....which isn't gonna happen.

I mean he straight up senses Rey's death at the end, he's blatantly Force sensitive and it makes sense she'd be the one he'd want to tell because she has some experience with that, Poe doesn't.

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Kylo was amazing until RoS.

Then they went the bog standard redemption arc and it felt like a super lame ending to the most interesting character in Star Wars.

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Kylo Ren is the best part of the ST, though I wouldn't say he's great.

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And Adam Driver took the role because he was promised that Kylo Ren wouldn't have a similar Redemption Arc like Darth Vader.

...Oops.

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To be fair, though, his redemption was basically instead of wanting to kill Palps and bring Rey to his side, he instead wanted to kill Palps and bring Rey to his side while holding a blue lightsaber.

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I don't even care much about TFA, but injured Kylo in the snow slamming his chest during the fight is going to stick with me for a while.

Kylo Ren from the death of Snoke until the end of the film was such a great run for the character.

He was set up to be an awesome final villain.

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The more I think about Kylo specifically, the more 9 goes from "what a dumb mess" to "what a shitty waste of potential potential". It's the difference of not caring that it was bad to being mad about it.

But guys he got his mask back that's what you all wanted right?!

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Kylo was great, but they just didnt stick the landing in TROS. He was the entire emotional pull of the sequel trilogy, which makes it all the more bizarre that they treated him as completely frivolous in the last 10 minutes of the movie. The power of two heals the one, but Ill tell you whatit doesnt take two to beat the one!

I have spent a solid week trying to figure out if JJ Abrams knew that the power to heal the dead was explained to us as a Sith power, was the crux of the entire prequel trilogy and anakin's transformation into darth vader. like maybe he was intentionally making Rey use this ability to make some kind of point. or was this just a total coincidence as a result of him not caring about star wars


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Kylo being redeemed is bad writing. I'll leave it at that.

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Kyle being redeemed is a plot point. It's not really 'writing.' The specifics, the entirety of the lead-up and the actual event is writing. Nuance and detail is what writing is. Just making a plot choice is really immaterial to the quality of writing. You can make bizarre, ridiculous, nonsense choices and back them up with great writing.

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MariaTaylor posted...

I have spent a solid week trying to figure out if JJ Abrams knew that the power to heal the dead was explained to us as a Sith power, was the crux of the entire prequel trilogy and anakin's transformation into darth vader. like maybe he was intentionally making Rey use this ability to make some kind of point. or was this just a total coincidence as a result of him not caring about star wars

Rey also uses force lightning and ends up killing Palpatine 10 minutes after he explained that doing so would complete her journey to the Dark Side, so I am going to go with yes.

It's poor writing that Rey can match Palpatine in power and has his abilities apparently entirely due to bloodline/chance. Palpatine is "all the Sith" because he's the culmination of 1000 years of Sith efforts to improve themselves and develop their skills. Rey talked with Luke for 5 minutes. And can use force lightning instinctually.

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Taking the movies as a 9 episode set that covers the Emperor and the Skywalkers, it's all right.

I do worry that the future is like... why don't they just Holdo space battles, and summon all the Jedis of the past to succeed in every battle? There's a small army of immortal ghost Jedis that can interact with the real world - that feels like a problem going forward.

I guess I liked these movies, I think some neat stuff in TLJ had to get thrown away but whatever, I just don't know how they effectively move forward with Star Wars because there's so much holding it back atm.


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Didn't Not Penny's Boat bring up the Holdo manuever and everyone laughed at him?

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FFDragon posted...

But guys he got his mask back that's what you all wanted right?!

tbqh Kylo putting the mask back on is the biggest indicator of how out of touch JJ Abrams is, and that's saying a lot

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neonreaper posted...

I do worry that the future is like... why don't they just Holdo space battles, and summon all the Jedis of the past to succeed in every battle? There's a small army of immortal ghost Jedis that can interact with the real world - that feels like a problem going forward.

wow I guess you didn't catch the two lines of throwaway dialogue explaining that "The Holdo Maneuver" is a one-in-a-million chance that the writers crammed in to appease the lore die-hards

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Yes I caught it. They still have to recklessly address things in this fashion moving forward.

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FFDragon posted...

Didn't Not Penny's Boat bring up the Holdo manuever and everyone laughed at him?

That's a weird way of spelling Meriadoc Brandybuck.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Kylo being redeemed is bad writing. I'll leave it at that.

Mmm, I would say how they redeemed him was not great, but the choice to have him be redeemed is fine. It speaks more broadly to the problems with J.J. Abrams direction for the movie, but the sacrifice and death at the end is such a retread of the OT that it isnt interesting, or even earned. The groundwork for Kylos redemption was set up the whole time, but instead of continuing to explore his increasingly erratic behavior *because* of his internal struggle, and how haunted he continues to be for killing Han, we double back to rebuild ol faithful again, and then do the Darth Vader thing of working for the Emperor but not really to try to recruit Rey for half the movie. But then we get the DS2 stuff, which is great, its good, I like the symbolic death of Kylo here, BUT THEN nothing else happens to sell or give that an interesting, satisfying conclusion afterward. His last line in the movie is ow, which is like... what!

I dont know, Ive racked by brain trying to understand the choices that went into the conclusion of their own character in the final stretch and how unsatisfying it was and Im at a loss to explain it!

The Rise of Skywalker, directed by JJ Abrams, written by Reddit.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

That's a weird way of spelling Meriadoc Brandybuck.

Lead singer of Driveshaft, Merry.

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FFDragon posted...

Didn't Not Penny's Boat bring up the Holdo manuever and everyone laughed at him?

Yeah. Which is why it's really weird that it's used again a short time later.Maybe it's a 2-in-a-million chance?

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red sox 777 posted...

Rey also uses force lightning and ends up killing Palpatine 10 minutes after he explained that doing so would complete her journey to the Dark Side, so I am going to go with yes.

Striking him down in anger would complete her journey to the Dark Side. She does not, and instead simply defends herself and reflects his own attack back at him, pretty much a definition of the Jedi way and similar to how Mace beat him.


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neonreaper posted...

Yes I caught it. They still have to recklessly address things in this fashion moving forward.

I actually prefer the lore-light approach of TFA and TLJ and the ENTIRE OT, so I disagree strongly with the decision to approach it how they did in TROS.

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Murphiroth posted...

Striking him down in anger would complete her journey to the Dark Side. She does not, and instead simply defends herself and reflects his own attack back at him, pretty much a definition of the Jedi way and similar to how Mace beat him.

Yes, reminiscent also of Luke beating Kylo in TLJ by not attacking and letting Kylo's anger beat himself

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scarletspeed7 posted...

Lead singer of Driveshaft, Merry.

More like Suckshaft

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You have never written a better song than "You All Everybody"/

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heroicmario posted...

The groundwork for Kylos redemption was set up the whole time,

I disagree strongly with this. He's only redeemable in the sense that you can redeem basically any character if you have them pull a tragic act of good right before they die. Episode 7 & 8 set up Kylo as someone who was too far gone; a byproduct of the failure of his mentors and his own lack of confidence in himself, who both committed heinous crimes and turned down a chance at redemption every time it was offered. I sincerely doubt that he was intended to eventually pull a face turn in the writing process for either of those Episodes.

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Yeah I wasn't surprised that they redeemed Kylo but I was a little disappointed. I thought when he killed Snoke he would go all the way over the edge. Ah well.

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Yeah, the way TLJ ended made it seem like Kylo was beyond redemption. Even Luke had given up on it (although I can see why people didn't like that from Luke). I kinda wish they had stuck with it.

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I think Johnson probably planned for Kylo to be irredeemable, but JJ Abrams planned the opposite, so it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

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abrams probably planned kylo = sequel trilogy's vader, snoke = sequel trilogy's emperor but johnson screwed that up

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*Disney screwed it up

Pretty much every single complaint you can lob towards either director specifically regarding either of them screwing up the plans of the other is directly the fault of the incredibly confusing decision by Disney to not have the trilogy planned out ahead of time and instead have each person do their own thing.

Which is to be lauded if you are establishing a wide variety of films, but is inexcusable when you are making a planned trilogy.

Even with the originally established 3 directors, all they had to do was establish that they need to get the actual plot beats nailed out ahead of time. I don't think we'll ever understand how the studio that set up the MCU was unable to manage this.

....of course if you think about it, almost none of the actual multi entry series in the MCU feel like a cohesive unit either....

If anything, I thought Kylo appeared and came off as more redeemable after TLJ rather than less so. His scenes with Rey didnt suggest someone beyond the point of no return, in my eyes, and his backstory made him a sympathetic figure. The way Ive always seen it, Vader was so much worse than Kylo ever was, and yet! To be fair to your point, tho, it could just as well have went with Kylo pivoting fully dark in TROS. That wasnt my reador hopebut I could have seen it happening all the same. TLJ left a lot open for the final movie to work with, however they wanted to play it.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

abrams probably planned kylo = sequel trilogy's vader, snoke = sequel trilogy's emperor but johnson screwed that up

Johnson saved us from that, if anything! But I know people have strong feelings about this in both directions.

If he wanted to redeem Kylo just to have him and Rey kiss then he should stay evil forever

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i don't necessarily think johnson saved us from the plans abrams had. snoke was pretty whatever in TFA but i felt like there was potential for them to do something interesting with him in the next movies (i personally wanted them to go the snoke = darth plagueis route). thought it was stupid how johnson went "oh he's dead now lol" in TLJ.

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Well... now that I think I think about, I say saved, but Abrams went out and found Zombie Palpatine in the aftermath of no Snoke, so what do I know!

MichelBollinger posted...

I don't think we'll ever understand how the studio that set up the MCU was unable to manage this.

I think it's clear you need someone like Kevin Feige to make it work like the MCU. All the other cinematic universes that have crashed and burned is proof of that.

Of course, having blueprints for a trilogy isn't as hard as creating a massive universe, so I only assume they didn't feel like the movies needed a strong overarching direction because they felt Star Wars fans would eat it up no matter what. And they were half right...

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Grand Kirby posted...

I think it's clear you need someone like Kevin Feige to make it work like the MCU

Yeah and his name is Dave Filoni

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