Poll of the Day > Upcoming recession will destroy millennials.

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
WastelandCowboy 08/30/19 11:41:47 AM #1:	https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/millennials-are-screwed-recession/596728/ The trade war is dragging on. The yield curve is inverting. Investors are fleeing to safety. Global growth is slowing. The stock market is dipping. The Millennials are screwed. Recessions are never good for anyone. A sputtering economy means miserable financial, emotional, and physical-health consequences for everyone from infants to retirees. But the next oneif it happens, when it starts happeningstands to hit this much-maligned generation particularly hard. For adults between the ages of 22 and 38, after all, the last recession never really ended. Millennials got bodied in the downturn, have struggled in the recovery, and are now left more vulnerable than other, older age cohorts. As they pitch toward middle age, they are failing to make it to the middle class, and are likely to be the first generation in modern economic history to end up worse off than their parents. The next downturn might make sure of it, stalling their careers and sucking away their wages right as the Millennials enter their prime earning years. It was the last downturnthe once-a-century Great Recessionthat set them on this doddering economic course. The Millennials graduated into the worst jobs market in 80 years. That did not just mean a few years of high unemployment, or a couple years living in their parents basements. It meant a full decade of lost wages. The generation unlucky enough to enter the labor market in a recession suffers significant earnings losses that take years and years to rebound, studies show, something that hard data now back up. As of 2014, Millennial men were earning no more than Gen X men were when they were the same age, and 10 percent less than Baby Boomersdespite the economy being far bigger and the country far richer. Millennial women were earning less than Gen X women. Kids of the 1980s and 1990s have had a new, huge, financially catastrophic demand on their meager post-recession earnings, too: a trillion dollars of educational debt. About a quarter of Gen Xers who went to college took out loans to do so, compared with half of Millennials. And Millennials ended up taking out double the amount that Gen Xers did. No wonder, given that the cost of tuition has gone up more than 100 percent since 2001, even after accounting for inflation. The toxic combination of lower earnings and higher student-loan balancescombined with tight credit in the recovery yearshas led to Millennials getting shut out of the housing market, and thus losing a seminal way to build wealth. The generations homeownership rate is a full 8 percentage points lower than that of the Gen Xers or the Baby Boomers when they were the same age; the median age of home-buyers has risen all the way to 46, the oldest it has been since the National Association of Realtors started keeping records four decades ago. As a result, Millennials have not benefited from the dramatic rebound in housing prices that has occurred since the financial collapse and the foreclosure crisis. Millennials have also been forced to shell out hundreds of billions of dollars in rent as housing costs have skyrocketed in many urban areas. This represents a large generational transfer of wealth from the young to the old. Boomers own the houses and bar municipalities from building more of them, thus benefiting from rising prices and soaking up endless rent checks forked over by younger and poorer families. <cite>WastelandCowboy posted [p:926738685] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/millennials-are-screwed-recession/596728/ <quote>The trade war is dragging on. The yield curve is inverting. Investors are fleeing to safety. Global growth is slowing. The stock market is dipping. The Millennials are screwed. Recessions are never good for anyone. A sputtering economy means miserable financial, emotional, and physical-health consequences for everyone from infants to retirees. But the next oneif it happens, when it starts happeningstands to hit this much-maligned generation particularly hard. For adults between the ages of 22 and 38, after all, the last recession never really ended. Millennials got bodied in the downturn, have struggled in the recovery, and are now left more vulnerable than other, older age cohorts. As they pitch toward middle age, they are failing to make it to the middle class, and are likely to be the first generation in modern economic history to end up worse off than their parents. The next downturn might make sure of it, stalling their careers and sucking away their wages right as the Millennials enter their prime earning years. It was the last downturnthe once-a-century Great Recessionthat set them on this doddering economic course. The Millennials graduated into the worst jobs market in 80 years. That did not just mean a few years of high unemployment, or a couple years living in their parents basements. It meant a full decade of lost wages. The generation unlucky enough to enter the labor market in a recession suffers significant earnings losses that take years and years to rebound, studies show, something that hard data now back up. As of 2014, Millennial men were earning no more than Gen X men were when they were the same age, and 10 percent less than Baby Boomersdespite the economy being far bigger and the country far richer. Millennial women were earning less than Gen X women. Kids of the 1980s and 1990s have had a new, huge, financially catastrophic demand on their meager post-recession earnings, too: a trillion dollars of educational debt. About a quarter of Gen Xers who went to college took out loans to do so, compared with half of Millennials. And Millennials ended up taking out double the amount that Gen Xers did. No wonder, given that the cost of tuition has gone up more than 100 percent since 2001, even after accounting for inflation. The toxic combination of lower earnings and higher student-loan balancescombined with tight credit in the recovery yearshas led to Millennials getting shut out of the housing market, and thus losing a seminal way to build wealth. The generations homeownership rate is a full 8 percentage points lower than that of the Gen Xers or the Baby Boomers when they were the same age; the median age of home-buyers has risen all the way to 46, the oldest it has been since the National Association of Realtors started keeping records four decades ago. As a result, Millennials have not benefited from the dramatic rebound in housing prices that has occurred since the financial collapse and the foreclosure crisis. Millennials have also been forced to shell out hundreds of billions of dollars in rent as housing costs have skyrocketed in many urban areas. This represents a large generational transfer of wealth from the young to the old. Boomers own the houses and bar municipalities from building more of them, thus benefiting from rising prices and soaking up endless rent checks forked over by younger and poorer families.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WastelandCowboy 08/30/19 11:42:08 AM #2:	Cost pressures have also made it difficult or impossible for Millennials to save or invest. The share of Americans under the age of 35 who own stocks has meandered down from 55 percent in 2001 to 37 percent in 2018, in part because employers are less likely to offer retirement-savings plans and in part because Millennials have nothing left over at the end of the month to put away. Virtually all members of the cohort are not saving adequately, experts warn, and two-thirds of Millennials have zero retirement savings. This means that Millennials have benefited not a bit from the decade-long boom in stock prices, as their parents and grandparents have. Millennials are worth less on paper than members of older generations are, and are worth less on paper than members of older generations were at the same point in their lives. The net worth of your average Millennial household is 40 percent lower than for Gen X households in 2001 and 20 percent lower than for Baby Boomers households at the end of the 1980s. Could the Millennials make up this lost ground? Perhaps, if wage growth suddenly and dramatically accelerates, urban cores start to build millions of new homes, and Congress announces a student-loan debt jubilee. But financial experts consider it unlikely. Millennials missed out on the big asset boom that occurred between 2010 and the present, and appreciation is unlikely to be as rapid in the near future as it was during the recent period, argue economists at the Federal Reserve. With the baby boomers occupying most of the top jobs and much of the housing, Millennials are doing less well than their parents, concluded Credit Suisse. We expect only a minority of high achievers and those in high-demand sectors such as technology or finance to effectively overcome the millennial disadvantage. The next recessionthis year, next year, whenever it comeswill likely make that Millennial disadvantage even worse. Already, Millennials have put off saving and buying homes, as well as getting married and having babies, because of their crummy jobs and weighty student loans. A downturn that leads to higher unemployment and lower wages will force Millennials to wait even longer to start accumulating wealth, making it far harder for them to accumulate any wealth at all. (Compound interest is magic, after all.) Their trajectory, already terrible, might get even worse. And Millennial suffering wont just hurt Millennials. There is accumulating evidence that the economy is more sclerotic and slower-growing than it might be if the Millennials were able to buy homes, have families, start businesses, and spend like other generationsif the young were not existing just to pump up asset values for the old. Which reminds metheres one generation that might fare even worse than Millennials: Generation Z. \_()_/. <cite>WastelandCowboy posted [p:926738704] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote><quote>Cost pressures have also made it difficult or impossible for Millennials to save or invest. The share of Americans under the age of 35 who own stocks has meandered down from 55 percent in 2001 to 37 percent in 2018, in part because employers are less likely to offer retirement-savings plans and in part because Millennials have nothing left over at the end of the month to put away. Virtually all members of the cohort are not saving adequately, experts warn, and two-thirds of Millennials have zero retirement savings. This means that Millennials have benefited not a bit from the decade-long boom in stock prices, as their parents and grandparents have. Millennials are worth less on paper than members of older generations are, and are worth less on paper than members of older generations were at the same point in their lives. The net worth of your average Millennial household is 40 percent lower than for Gen X households in 2001 and 20 percent lower than for Baby Boomers households at the end of the 1980s. Could the Millennials make up this lost ground? Perhaps, if wage growth suddenly and dramatically accelerates, urban cores start to build millions of new homes, and Congress announces a student-loan debt jubilee. But financial experts consider it unlikely. Millennials missed out on the big asset boom that occurred between 2010 and the present, and appreciation is unlikely to be as rapid in the near future as it was during the recent period, argue economists at the Federal Reserve. With the baby boomers occupying most of the top jobs and much of the housing, Millennials are doing less well than their parents, concluded Credit Suisse. We expect only a minority of high achievers and those in high-demand sectors such as technology or finance to effectively overcome the millennial disadvantage. The next recessionthis year, next year, whenever it comeswill likely make that Millennial disadvantage even worse. Already, Millennials have put off saving and buying homes, as well as getting married and having babies, because of their crummy jobs and weighty student loans. A downturn that leads to higher unemployment and lower wages will force Millennials to wait even longer to start accumulating wealth, making it far harder for them to accumulate any wealth at all. (Compound interest is magic, after all.) Their trajectory, already terrible, might get even worse. And Millennial suffering wont just hurt Millennials. There is accumulating evidence that the economy is more sclerotic and slower-growing than it might be if the Millennials were able to buy homes, have families, start businesses, and spend like other generationsif the young were not existing just to pump up asset values for the old. Which reminds metheres one generation that might fare even worse than Millennials: Generation Z. \_()_/.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 11:45:56 AM #3:	Why does this imply millennials are only working class schlubs? --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926738869] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Why does this imply millennials are only working class schlubs?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Noop_Noop 08/30/19 11:58:27 AM #4:	Sorry you fuckers either never learned how or never wanted to put forth the effort required to game the system. --- I am your shepherd cloaked in obscenity. Heed these sickening words: I worship only what you bleed. <cite>Noop_Noop posted [p:926739384] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Sorry you fuckers either never learned how or never wanted to put forth the effort required to game the system.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
captpackrat 08/30/19 12:26:05 PM #5:	The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible. --- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, Minutus carborata descendum pantorum. <cite>captpackrat posted [p:926740520] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 12:28:34 PM #6:	captpackrat posted... with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible. The world is in debt to itself, it doesn't mean anything so they can spend freely. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926740606] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>captpackrat posted...</cite> <quote>with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible.</quote> The world is in debt to itself, it doesn't mean anything so they can spend freely.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpeedDemon20 08/30/19 12:29:30 PM #7:	Yay, destruction! --- http://orig14.deviantart.net/59f8/f/2009/047/4/9/rylai_crestfall_by_eyue.jpg Crystal Maiden... gal could break your heart in a thousand pieces. -Rucks <cite>SpeedDemon20 posted [p:926740652] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Yay, destruction!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 08/30/19 12:30:05 PM #8:	Don't worry. With 90% of America going poor they'll have the populist power to vote the rich to pay them taxes. ... RIGHT? That's how voting works, right!? --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:926740676] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Don't worry. With 90% of America going poor they'll have the populist power to vote the rich to pay them taxes. ... RIGHT? That's how voting works, right!?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lihlih 08/30/19 12:31:13 PM #9:	captpackrat posted... The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible. Majority of the tax cuts went to the rich though, which has the opposite effect. In fact, Reagan, the guy who popularized the bullshit trickle down economy had to raise taxes 11 times after his bullshit tax cuts for the rich because it had too much of a negative impact on the economy. --- People come up to me... concerned.. that I'll reproduce." - Emo Philips <cite>lihlih posted [p:926740716] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>captpackrat posted...</cite> <quote>The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible.</quote> Majority of the tax cuts went to the rich though, which has the opposite effect. In fact, Reagan, the guy who popularized the bullshit trickle down economy had to raise taxes 11 times after his bullshit tax cuts for the rich because it had too much of a negative impact on the economy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blighboy 08/30/19 12:31:30 PM #10:	Big oof --- https://imgtc.com/i/gl6tuJ6.png <cite>Blighboy posted [p:926740728] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Big oof</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 12:32:05 PM #11:	Lokarin posted... Don't worry. With 90% of America going poor they'll have the populist power to vote the rich to pay them taxes. ... RIGHT? That's how voting works, right!? It's how a democracy works, but what the world has demonstrated recently is that voting is only symbolic. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926740752] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Lokarin posted...</cite> <quote>Don't worry. With 90% of America going poor they'll have the populist power to vote the rich to pay them taxes. ... RIGHT? That's how voting works, right!?</quote> It's how a democracy works, but what the world has demonstrated recently is that voting is only symbolic.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 12:42:43 PM #12:	What we need is Andrew Yang and his value added tax proposal Imagine how much better off the US would be economically if every sale on amazon and ad on Facebook was fairly taxed the way they should be --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926741168] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>What we need is Andrew Yang and his value added tax proposal Imagine how much better off the US would be economically if every sale on amazon and ad on Facebook was fairly taxed the way they should be </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 08/30/19 12:46:06 PM #13:	Mead posted... value added tax proposal That's a terrible idea. VATs affect consumer goods the most, so it would only further consolidate money away from people. EDIT: Likewise, VATs are good when the economy is good. --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:926741303] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted...</cite> <quote> value added tax proposal</quote> That's a terrible idea. VATs affect consumer goods the most, so it would only further consolidate money away from people. EDIT: Likewise, VATs are good when the economy is good.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 12:52:27 PM #14:	Lokarin posted... That's a terrible idea. VATs affect consumer goods the most, so it would only further consolidate money away from people. EDIT: Likewise, VATs are good when the economy is good. Except his freedom dividend would put that money and likely more back into every citizens pocket --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926741524] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Lokarin posted... </cite> <quote>That's a terrible idea. VATs affect consumer goods the most, so it would only further consolidate money away from people. EDIT: Likewise, VATs are good when the economy is good.</quote> Except his freedom dividend would put that money and likely more back into every citizens pocket </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 12:57:16 PM #15:	Mead posted... Lokarin posted... That's a terrible idea. VATs affect consumer goods the most, so it would only further consolidate money away from people. EDIT: Likewise, VATs are good when the economy is good. Except his freedom dividend would put that money and likely more back into every citizens pocket Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place? It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in... --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926741703] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted...</cite> <quote>Lokarin posted... </cite> <quote>That's a terrible idea. VATs affect consumer goods the most, so it would only further consolidate money away from people. EDIT: Likewise, VATs are good when the economy is good.</quote> Except his freedom dividend would put that money and likely more back into every citizens pocket </quote> Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place? It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 12:58:49 PM #16:	LinkPizza posted... Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place? It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in... What he wants to do is boost the economy from the bottom up by giving more spending power to citizens rather than having all the wealth grown in the US just go to Wall Street and corporations --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926741766] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place? It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in...</quote> What he wants to do is boost the economy from the bottom up by giving more spending power to citizens rather than having all the wealth grown in the US just go to Wall Street and corporations </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 12:59:38 PM #17:	LinkPizza posted... Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place. It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in... Even better, taking money out of the pockets of those who push the economy forward to line the pockets of those let it stagnate. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926741797] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted...</cite> <quote>Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place. It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in...</quote> Even better, taking money out of the pockets of those who push the economy forward to line the pockets of those let it stagnate.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 1:01:51 PM #18:	Consumers cause the economy to stagnate Just another brilliant opinion from Kyuubi --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926741885] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Consumers cause the economy to stagnate Just another brilliant opinion from Kyuubi </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RedPixel 08/30/19 1:02:49 PM #19:	Nobody should let these bullshit articles destroy their dreams or influence their expectations. Live smart, find somewhere you can make ends meet, and don't fucking spend money you don't have. It's really that simple. My wife and I bought an 860 square ft home and at our worst we were at $78k in debt. We are working 4 jobs and just broke the $60k mark. It is no one's fault except ours. Tired of people not accepting responsibility for their own actions. (Yes, the education industry is a complete ripoff.) --- Working in a team is great! It always helps to have someone else to blame. <cite>RedPixel posted [p:926741919] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Nobody should let these bullshit articles destroy their dreams or influence their expectations. Live smart, find somewhere you can make ends meet, and don't fucking spend money you don't have. It's really that simple. My wife and I bought an 860 square ft home and at our worst we were at $78k in debt. We are working 4 jobs and just broke the $60k mark. It is no one's fault except ours. Tired of people not accepting responsibility for their own actions. (Yes, the education industry is a complete ripoff.)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 1:03:55 PM #20:	Maybe I dont understand it fully, then. But from what I read, it doesnt sound good. And it seems like it would be bad for most people... --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926741951] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Maybe I dont understand it fully, then. But from what I read, it doesnt sound good. And it seems like it would be bad for most people...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 1:06:37 PM #21:	LinkPizza posted... Maybe I dont understand it fully, then. But from what I read, it doesnt sound good. And it seems like it would be bad for most people... How is an extra $1000 income every month bad for most people? How much is it gonna help new parents take care of their kids and afford childcare when theyre getting an extra couple grand a month. A lot of conservatives are realizing its a good idea too because it puts wealth back into the individuals hands rather than the government deciding where it goes and how to spend it. --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926742055] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>Maybe I dont understand it fully, then. But from what I read, it doesnt sound good. And it seems like it would be bad for most people...</quote> How is an extra $1000 income every month bad for most people? How much is it gonna help new parents take care of their kids and afford childcare when theyre getting an extra couple grand a month. A lot of conservatives are realizing its a good idea too because it puts wealth back into the individuals hands rather than the government deciding where it goes and how to spend it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Far-Queue 08/30/19 1:09:19 PM #22:	Mead posted... Consumers cause the economy to stagnate Just another brilliant opinion from Kyuubi Kyuubi4269 posted... I generally didn't think about things I didn't have information about. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/77969913#2 --- https://imgur.com/ZwO4qO2 Bluer than velvet was the night... Softer than satin was the light... From the stars... <cite>Far-Queue posted [p:926742147] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote>Consumers cause the economy to stagnate Just another brilliant opinion from Kyuubi</quote> <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>I generally didn't think about things I didn't have information about.</quote> https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/77969913#2 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 08/30/19 1:10:14 PM #23:	When has a recession not destroyed people? >_> And no matter what, we're likely overdue for the next one. Of course, the other issue is a lot of cultural and economic issues not tied to the recession itself and many of those either don't really have easy fixes or, in other cases, involve changes that we can't exactly reverse (and some of which nobody really wants to reverse, such as more women taking jobs that were traditionally done by men -- so when it talk about men's earnings decade-to-decade as an evaluation, it likely overlooks that women's earnings have increased). captpackrat posted... The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible. Considering that the national debt doubled while Obama was in office after basically doubling when GWB was in office, I'm not sure why that wouldn't be on the table. However, it's worth noting that a lot of government spending isn't exactly boosting anything and an over-reliance on government spending to get us out of recessions poses serious long-term problems, especially since we never do all that much to curb spending afterward (other than one-shot programs ending). And it's silly to blame people for tax cuts instead of blaming people for not cutting spending. Likewise, it's ignorant to blame Republicans for interest rates considering those are controlled by the fed rather than a political party. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:926742186] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>When has a recession not destroyed people? >_> And no matter what, we're likely overdue for the next one. Of course, the other issue is a lot of cultural and economic issues not tied to the recession itself and many of those either don't really have easy fixes or, in other cases, involve changes that we can't exactly reverse (and some of which nobody really wants to reverse, such as more women taking jobs that were traditionally done by men -- so when it talk about men's earnings decade-to-decade as an evaluation, it likely overlooks that women's earnings have increased). captpackrat posted...</cite> <quote>The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible.</quote> Considering that the national debt doubled while Obama was in office after basically doubling when GWB was in office, I'm not sure why that wouldn't be on the table. However, it's worth noting that a lot of government spending isn't exactly boosting anything and an over-reliance on government spending to get us out of recessions poses serious long-term problems, especially since we never do all that much to curb spending afterward (other than one-shot programs ending). And it's silly to blame people for tax cuts instead of blaming people for not cutting spending. Likewise, it's ignorant to blame Republicans for interest rates considering those are controlled by the fed rather than a political party.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 1:19:44 PM #24:	Mead posted... LinkPizza posted... Maybe I dont understand it fully, then. But from what I read, it doesnt sound good. And it seems like it would be bad for most people... How is an extra $1000 income every month bad for most people? How much is it gonna help new parents take care of their kids and afford childcare when theyre getting an extra couple grand a month. A lot of conservatives are realizing its a good idea too because it puts wealth back into the individuals hands rather than the government deciding where it goes and how to spend it. Where is this couple grand a month coming from? It sounds like things are more expensive because they keep adding a tax to every stage of the process. Which then makes it more expensive for the consumer to buy. Explain what a value added tax is and how it helps. And where his magic extra money is coming from. I dont understand. Everything you were saying sounds different from the few things I found online... --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926742544] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>Maybe I dont understand it fully, then. But from what I read, it doesnt sound good. And it seems like it would be bad for most people...</quote> How is an extra $1000 income every month bad for most people? How much is it gonna help new parents take care of their kids and afford childcare when theyre getting an extra couple grand a month. A lot of conservatives are realizing its a good idea too because it puts wealth back into the individuals hands rather than the government deciding where it goes and how to spend it. </quote> Where is this couple grand a month coming from? It sounds like things are more expensive because they keep adding a tax to every stage of the process. Which then makes it more expensive for the consumer to buy. Explain what a value added tax is and how it helps. And where his magic extra money is coming from. I dont understand. Everything you were saying sounds different from the few things I found online...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 1:20:22 PM #25:	RedPixel posted... Nobody should let these bullshit articles destroy their dreams or influence their expectations. Live smart, find somewhere you can make ends meet, and don't fucking spend money you don't have. This is the issue with gentrification. If an area is close enough to employment of any value, the property is desirable. If it is desirable then somebody will buy all the property and raise its value to take advantage of every penny available. With there being insufficient number of homes, they can market above the average wage AND have zero incentive to compete. If you move further afield and commute long distance you lose value in travel costs and time. When these undesirable places are rented, the same pattern happens again only at a marginally lower rent to offset average commuting costs. With housing being this valuable, sales are few and inflated as their rental value is extortionate. There is no option to economise, you either earn above the average and play with the surplus or earn beneath and live on benefits. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926742561] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>RedPixel posted...</cite> <quote>Nobody should let these bullshit articles destroy their dreams or influence their expectations. Live smart, find somewhere you can make ends meet, and don't fucking spend money you don't have.</quote> This is the issue with gentrification. If an area is close enough to employment of any value, the property is desirable. If it is desirable then somebody will buy all the property and raise its value to take advantage of every penny available. With there being insufficient number of homes, they can market above the average wage AND have zero incentive to compete. If you move further afield and commute long distance you lose value in travel costs and time. When these undesirable places are rented, the same pattern happens again only at a marginally lower rent to offset average commuting costs. With housing being this valuable, sales are few and inflated as their rental value is extortionate. There is no option to economise, you either earn above the average and play with the surplus or earn beneath and live on benefits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 08/30/19 1:25:17 PM #26:	Kyuubi4269 posted... The world is in debt to itself, it doesn't mean anything so they can spend freely. This is perhaps the most economically clueless viewpoint I've ever seen. No, the world isn't in debt to itself; governments - the entities charged with taking money from the people and spending it on projects that benefit society as a whole - are in debt to other entities, largely other countries and investors. And the more they "spend freely", the more their ability to do so is constrained due to their contractual obligation to pay interest on all outstanding debt issued. At this point a healthy chunk of your taxes is going directly into the pocket of other countries and rich owners of sovereign debt, rather than into anything that you will ever see benefit from, which is not how taxes are supposed to work. (And may God have mercy on the Americans if a recession hits, because Trump has taken the unprecedented step of slashing taxes and exploding the deficit during an economic boom, leaving the government almost totally unequipped to use monetary policy to blunt the effects of a recession.) Saying "the world is in debt to itself, so it doesn't matter", is kind of like if I owed you money and said, "Well, you're a human and I'm a human, so this is just humanity owing money to itself, so I'm just going to pay the money to myself and call the debt settled. Oh, and I'd like to buy a new car, so please give me another $50,000." --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:926742725] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>The world is in debt to itself, it doesn't mean anything so they can spend freely. </quote> This is perhaps the most economically clueless viewpoint I've ever seen. No, the world isn't in debt to itself; governments - the entities charged with taking money from the people and spending it on projects that benefit society as a whole - are in debt to other entities, largely other countries and investors. And the more they "spend freely", the more their ability to do so is constrained due to their contractual obligation to pay interest on all outstanding debt issued. At this point a healthy chunk of your taxes is going directly into the pocket of other countries and rich owners of sovereign debt, rather than into anything that you will ever see benefit from, which is not how taxes are supposed to work. (And may God have mercy on the Americans if a recession hits, because Trump has taken the unprecedented step of slashing taxes and exploding the deficit during an economic boom, leaving the government almost totally unequipped to use monetary policy to blunt the effects of a recession.) Saying "the world is in debt to itself, so it doesn't matter", is kind of like if I owed you money and said, "Well, you're a human and I'm a human, so this is just humanity owing money to itself, so I'm just going to pay the money to myself and call the debt settled. Oh, and I'd like to buy a new car, so please give me another $50,000."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 1:26:31 PM #27:	LinkPizza posted... Where is this couple grand a month coming from? It sounds like things are more expensive because they keep adding a tax to every stage of the process. Which then makes it more expensive for the consumer to buy. Explain what a value added tax is and how it helps. And where his magic extra money is coming from. I dont understand. Everything you were saying sounds different from the few things I found online... https://www.yang2020.com/policies/value-added-tax/ this explains it better than I personally could its true that some of the cost will be passed down to consumers but well be able to make corporations and the incredibly wealthy actually pay their fair share and the money will go towards Americans who can boost the economy with more buying power --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926742771] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>Where is this couple grand a month coming from? It sounds like things are more expensive because they keep adding a tax to every stage of the process. Which then makes it more expensive for the consumer to buy. Explain what a value added tax is and how it helps. And where his magic extra money is coming from. I dont understand. Everything you were saying sounds different from the few things I found online...</quote> https://www.yang2020.com/policies/value-added-tax/ this explains it better than I personally could its true that some of the cost will be passed down to consumers but well be able to make corporations and the incredibly wealthy actually pay their fair share and the money will go towards Americans who can boost the economy with more buying power </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 1:45:57 PM #28:	darkknight109 posted... No, the world isn't in debt to itself; governments - the entities charged with taking money from the people and spending it on projects that benefit society as a whole - are in debt to other entities, largely other countries and investors. And those countries and investors are in debt to the starting government. If two people owe eachother the same amount, it cancels out. This fluctuates constantly. darkknight109 posted... At this point a healthy chunk of your taxes is going directly into the pocket of other countries and rich owners of sovereign debt, rather than into anything that you will ever see benefit from, which is not how taxes are supposed to work. Quick reminder that some debt is even negative interest. Everybody is in debt to eachother in a similar way to brothers, they do things for eachother freely for both sides' benefit, debt is the country equivalent of brothers appreciating eachother with the WTO operating as mom making them apologise to eachother when they fall out. There's no end condition to non-payment of debt, the countries with most debt operate like mooching family members who never do anything bad enough to be disowned so their bad behaviour is tolerated indefinitely. Nobody wants a country to collapse as it harms world trade so as long as a country is productive, they can be in as much debt as they like. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926743482] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>No, the world isn't in debt to itself; governments - the entities charged with taking money from the people and spending it on projects that benefit society as a whole - are in debt to other entities, largely other countries and investors.</quote> And those countries and investors are in debt to the starting government. If two people owe eachother the same amount, it cancels out. This fluctuates constantly. darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>At this point a healthy chunk of your taxes is going directly into the pocket of other countries and rich owners of sovereign debt, rather than into anything that you will ever see benefit from, which is not how taxes are supposed to work.</quote> Quick reminder that some debt is even negative interest. Everybody is in debt to eachother in a similar way to brothers, they do things for eachother freely for both sides' benefit, debt is the country equivalent of brothers appreciating eachother with the WTO operating as mom making them apologise to eachother when they fall out. There's no end condition to non-payment of debt, the countries with most debt operate like mooching family members who never do anything bad enough to be disowned so their bad behaviour is tolerated indefinitely. Nobody wants a country to collapse as it harms world trade so as long as a country is productive, they can be in as much debt as they like.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 08/30/19 2:09:00 PM #29:	Kyuubi4269 posted... And those countries and investors are in debt to the starting government. No, they're not. My standing debt to the government is presently zero and while I'm well-off, I'm still outside the 1% bracket. Virtually no one of means is in debt to the government - why would they be? Kyuubi4269 posted... Quick reminder that some debt is even negative interest. Which is alarming for different reasons, as it makes it much harder for governments to secure capital, given that they are basically saying "Pay us for the privilege of you loaning us money." This can, and historically has, driven panic and market flight. Kyuubi4269 posted... Everybody is in debt to eachother in a similar way to brothers, they do things for eachother freely for both sides' benefit That's not debt. Kyuubi4269 posted... There's no end condition to non-payment of debt, the countries with most debt operate like mooching family members who never do anything bad enough to be disowned so their bad behaviour is tolerated indefinitely. Nobody wants a country to collapse as it harms world trade so as long as a country is productive, they can be in as much debt as they like. Sure, there's no real enforceable punishment to a country that defaults on their debts. That's not the same thing as saying there are no consequences. Countries can hold as much debt as they want, but the interest payments choke out healthy economic growth as it's basically a regressive, upwards distribution of wealth, as tax is taken from all and given to sovereign debt holders, who are disproportionately rich, instead of consumers, whose spending drives the economy. And a country the size and importance of the US defaulting on its payments would cause an immediate market crash that would dwarf the scale and impact of anything in the last 100 years. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:926744323] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>And those countries and investors are in debt to the starting government. </quote> No, they're not. My standing debt to the government is presently zero and while I'm well-off, I'm still outside the 1% bracket. Virtually no one of means is in debt to the government - why would they be? Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>Quick reminder that some debt is even negative interest. </quote> Which is alarming for different reasons, as it makes it much harder for governments to secure capital, given that they are basically saying "Pay us for the privilege of you loaning us money." This can, and historically has, driven panic and market flight. Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>Everybody is in debt to eachother in a similar way to brothers, they do things for eachother freely for both sides' benefit</quote> That's not debt. Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>There's no end condition to non-payment of debt, the countries with most debt operate like mooching family members who never do anything bad enough to be disowned so their bad behaviour is tolerated indefinitely. Nobody wants a country to collapse as it harms world trade so as long as a country is productive, they can be in as much debt as they like. </quote> Sure, there's no real enforceable punishment to a country that defaults on their debts. That's not the same thing as saying there are no consequences. Countries can hold as much debt as they want, but the interest payments choke out healthy economic growth as it's basically a regressive, upwards distribution of wealth, as tax is taken from all and given to sovereign debt holders, who are disproportionately rich, instead of consumers, whose spending drives the economy. And a country the size and importance of the US defaulting on its payments would cause an immediate market crash that would dwarf the scale and impact of anything in the last 100 years.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Noop_Noop 08/30/19 2:21:57 PM #30:	Mead posted... LinkPizza posted... Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place? It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in... What he wants to do is boost the economy from the bottom up by giving more spending power to citizens rather than having all the wealth grown in the US just go to Wall Street and corporations what we should really all do to boost the economy is to be a bunch of do nothing layabouts who think that our political opinions matter to anyone but ourselves, while simultaneously contributing nothing to society. --- I am your shepherd cloaked in obscenity. Heed these sickening words: I worship only what you bleed. <cite>Noop_Noop posted [p:926744819] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>Would the money hes putting back in our pocket be the money his idea was taking from out pocket in the first place? It sounds like hes taking a dollar out of our pocket to put it right back in...</quote> What he wants to do is boost the economy from the bottom up by giving more spending power to citizens rather than having all the wealth grown in the US just go to Wall Street and corporations </quote> what we should really all do to boost the economy is to be a bunch of do nothing layabouts who think that our political opinions matter to anyone but ourselves, while simultaneously contributing nothing to society.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 2:31:43 PM #31:	I guess schmen is really angry today how surprising --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926745195] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>I guess schmen is really angry today how surprising </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joemodda 08/30/19 2:33:48 PM #32:	That's why living the NEET life and collecting welfare checks is the way to go. Can't wait for UBI so I can do nothing all day but play Vidya games --- The sin is not in being outmatched, but in failing to recognize it -Ancestor <cite>joemodda posted [p:926745289] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>That's why living the NEET life and collecting welfare checks is the way to go. Can't wait for UBI so I can do nothing all day but play Vidya games</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zareth 08/30/19 2:33:51 PM #33:	Thanks, boomers. --- It's okay, I have no idea who I am either. https://imgur.com/WOo6wcq <cite>Zareth posted [p:926745291] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Thanks, boomers.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 2:42:58 PM #34:	joemodda posted... That's why living the NEET life and collecting welfare checks is the way to go. Can't wait for UBI so I can do nothing all day but play Vidya games Nice thing about UBI is that itll actually cut down on welfare costs dramatically, its opt in so aside from healthcare when you sign up for it you stop receiving any other financial aid from the government --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926745614] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>joemodda posted... </cite> <quote>That's why living the NEET life and collecting welfare checks is the way to go. Can't wait for UBI so I can do nothing all day but play Vidya games</quote> Nice thing about UBI is that itll actually cut down on welfare costs dramatically, its opt in so aside from healthcare when you sign up for it you stop receiving any other financial aid from the government </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 2:42:58 PM #35:	Mead posted... LinkPizza posted... Where is this couple grand a month coming from? It sounds like things are more expensive because they keep adding a tax to every stage of the process. Which then makes it more expensive for the consumer to buy. Explain what a value added tax is and how it helps. And where his magic extra money is coming from. I dont understand. Everything you were saying sounds different from the few things I found online... https://www.yang2020.com/policies/value-added-tax/ this explains it better than I personally could its true that some of the cost will be passed down to consumers but well be able to make corporations and the incredibly wealthy actually pay their fair share and the money will go towards Americans who can boost the economy with more buying power After reading that, it still sounds like what I thought. Which is they just tax the companies, who dont want to lose money. They increase prices so that they arent losing money. We get magic money from somewhere? But that extra $1,000 a month wont matter much when were paying an extra $1,000 a month to live because everything is more expensive because those big companies wont stand for losing money... --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926745615] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>Where is this couple grand a month coming from? It sounds like things are more expensive because they keep adding a tax to every stage of the process. Which then makes it more expensive for the consumer to buy. Explain what a value added tax is and how it helps. And where his magic extra money is coming from. I dont understand. Everything you were saying sounds different from the few things I found online...</quote> https://www.yang2020.com/policies/value-added-tax/ this explains it better than I personally could its true that some of the cost will be passed down to consumers but well be able to make corporations and the incredibly wealthy actually pay their fair share and the money will go towards Americans who can boost the economy with more buying power </quote> After reading that, it still sounds like what I thought. Which is they just tax the companies, who dont want to lose money. They increase prices so that they arent losing money. We get magic money from somewhere? But that extra $1,000 a month wont matter much when were paying an extra $1,000 a month to live because everything is more expensive because those big companies wont stand for losing money...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 2:46:50 PM #36:	LinkPizza posted... After reading that, it still sounds like what I thought. Which is they just tax the companies, who dont want to lose money. They increase prices so that they arent losing money. We get magic money from somewhere? But that extra $1,000 a month wont matter much when were paying an extra $1,000 a month to live because everything is more expensive because those big companies wont stand for losing money... People wont be paying anywhere near that much in increased costs because these companies are making more and more money exponentially by replacing laborers with automation its like when wages go up, prices might increase slightly but overall it greatly benefits workers Do we really want a system where companies create massive amounts of capital with automation and none of it goes to the actual people? --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926745755] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>After reading that, it still sounds like what I thought. Which is they just tax the companies, who dont want to lose money. They increase prices so that they arent losing money. We get magic money from somewhere? But that extra $1,000 a month wont matter much when were paying an extra $1,000 a month to live because everything is more expensive because those big companies wont stand for losing money...</quote> People wont be paying anywhere near that much in increased costs because these companies are making more and more money exponentially by replacing laborers with automation its like when wages go up, prices might increase slightly but overall it greatly benefits workers Do we really want a system where companies create massive amounts of capital with automation and none of it goes to the actual people? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 2:56:34 PM #37:	Mead posted... LinkPizza posted... After reading that, it still sounds like what I thought. Which is they just tax the companies, who dont want to lose money. They increase prices so that they arent losing money. We get magic money from somewhere? But that extra $1,000 a month wont matter much when were paying an extra $1,000 a month to live because everything is more expensive because those big companies wont stand for losing money... People wont be paying anywhere near that much in increased costs because these companies are making more and more money exponentially by replacing laborers with automation its like when wages go up, prices might increase slightly but overall it greatly benefits workers Do we really want a system where companies create massive amounts of capital with automation and none of it goes to the actual people? Theyre replacing people with automation because its cheaper. If someone starts making them pay more, they start making the prices go up because theyll be damned if they lose their profit margin. As for automation, Im against it. But people love it. Like how people love the cashier-less Amazon store and self check-out lanes. I personally dont use that stuff. Stuff like that is going to give the stores more money. Making them pay more isnt going to do anything to the company because theyll raise their prices so the tax wont affect them as much. Which make prices possibly skyrocket for consumers. Id rather things stay like they are, rather than getting an extra $1,000 a month in income while spending $1,000+ in monthly outcome. --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926746140] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted... </cite> <quote>After reading that, it still sounds like what I thought. Which is they just tax the companies, who dont want to lose money. They increase prices so that they arent losing money. We get magic money from somewhere? But that extra $1,000 a month wont matter much when were paying an extra $1,000 a month to live because everything is more expensive because those big companies wont stand for losing money...</quote> People wont be paying anywhere near that much in increased costs because these companies are making more and more money exponentially by replacing laborers with automation its like when wages go up, prices might increase slightly but overall it greatly benefits workers Do we really want a system where companies create massive amounts of capital with automation and none of it goes to the actual people? </quote> Theyre replacing people with automation because its cheaper. If someone starts making them pay more, they start making the prices go up because theyll be damned if they lose their profit margin. As for automation, Im against it. But people love it. Like how people love the cashier-less Amazon store and self check-out lanes. I personally dont use that stuff. Stuff like that is going to give the stores more money. Making them pay more isnt going to do anything to the company because theyll raise their prices so the tax wont affect them as much. Which make prices possibly skyrocket for consumers. Id rather things stay like they are, rather than getting an extra $1,000 a month in income while spending $1,000+ in monthly outcome.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 2:59:36 PM #38:	Again it will have an effect but not nearly as much as youre suggesting. These companies make billions upon billions, a modest value added tax thats much lower than the global average is not gonna compel them to skyrocket their prices. --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926746272] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Again it will have an effect but not nearly as much as youre suggesting. These companies make billions upon billions, a modest value added tax thats much lower than the global average is not gonna compel them to skyrocket their prices. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 3:23:11 PM #39:	Mead posted... Again it will have an effect but not nearly as much as youre suggesting. These companies make billions upon billions, a modest value added tax thats much lower than the global average is not gonna compel them to skyrocket their prices. And automation is already happening and here to stay. Its also advancing exponentially, jobs that we never thought could be automated are starting to be, and chances are there are jobs today that we think can only be done by people that will be automated with the next ten or fifteen years as robotics and AI continue to be developed. Really? I dont see companies just letting themselves lose money because they make a lot. That doesnt make any business sense at all. And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people. --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926747135] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted...</cite> <quote>Again it will have an effect but not nearly as much as youre suggesting. These companies make billions upon billions, a modest value added tax thats much lower than the global average is not gonna compel them to skyrocket their prices. And automation is already happening and here to stay. Its also advancing exponentially, jobs that we never thought could be automated are starting to be, and chances are there are jobs today that we think can only be done by people that will be automated with the next ten or fifteen years as robotics and AI continue to be developed. </quote> Really? I dont see companies just letting themselves lose money because they make a lot. That doesnt make any business sense at all. And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 3:28:01 PM #40:	darkknight109 posted... My standing debt to the government is presently zero Your standing loan to the government is zero too. You are the government's property, you're not relevant. darkknight109 posted... Which is alarming for different reasons, as it makes it much harder for governments to secure capital, given that they are basically saying "Pay us for the privilege of you loaning us money." This can, and historically has, driven panic and market flight. Let me put it this way; you don't get to ask your bank for negative interest, you owe them, you have no position of worth to trade against. Governments give money to eachother (even with interest payments) because their existence cancels out the value the debt. The number doesn't mean anything significant beyond how much a country is worthwhile to keep around. darkknight109 posted... That's not debt. Government debt isn't debt in the same way. While everything traded is quantified, the debt count is just a way of countries of crying "You owe me bro!" whenever things aren't going right. Realistically nobody can or will enforce these debts as their economic relationships are too valuable. darkknight109 posted... Countries can hold as much debt as they want, but the interest payments choke out healthy economic growth as it's basically a regressive, upwards distribution of wealth, as tax is taken from all and given to sovereign debt holders, who are disproportionately rich, instead of consumers, whose spending drives the economy. Do you really believe America's debt to China goes to the 1% and not China's operations? China lends money to America, America funds businesses that improve the country's GDP. When GDP increases, more trade is done with China and China's GDP improves. The more the trade helps China, the less China charges in interest. When trade value exceeds loan value, China offers negative interest to assist growth. The debt isn't paid in cash, it's paid in relations. Everybody in the US benefits when the US has enhanced GDP and this pseudo-guaranteed trade keeps China afloat too. It's not debt in the real world, it only exists on paper. darkknight109 posted... And a country the size and importance of the US defaulting on its payments would cause an immediate market crash that would dwarf the scale and impact of anything in the last 100 years. That's a problem with the stock market, not the debt. Ultimately negative interest is offered because people act ridiculously to things they don't understand. The US will never be charged what they can't pay because it is not sensible to harm a country that props up your economy. LinkPizza posted... Making them pay more isnt going to do anything to the company because theyll raise their prices so the tax wont affect them as much. Which make prices possibly skyrocket for consumers. Market forces. In a business where free market economics work naturally, spiking the price to offset costs kills off desirability and sales. It's more profitable to take the hit when people can't/won't pay more. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926747347] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>My standing debt to the government is presently zero</quote> Your standing loan to the government is zero too. You are the government's property, you're not relevant. darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>Which is alarming for different reasons, as it makes it much harder for governments to secure capital, given that they are basically saying "Pay us for the privilege of you loaning us money." This can, and historically has, driven panic and market flight.</quote> Let me put it this way; you don't get to ask your bank for negative interest, you owe them, you have no position of worth to trade against. Governments give money to eachother (even with interest payments) because their existence cancels out the value the debt. The number doesn't mean anything significant beyond how much a country is worthwhile to keep around. darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>That's not debt.</quote> Government debt isn't debt in the same way. While everything traded is quantified, the debt count is just a way of countries of crying "You owe me bro!" whenever things aren't going right. Realistically nobody can or will enforce these debts as their economic relationships are too valuable. darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>Countries can hold as much debt as they want, but the interest payments choke out healthy economic growth as it's basically a regressive, upwards distribution of wealth, as tax is taken from all and given to sovereign debt holders, who are disproportionately rich, instead of consumers, whose spending drives the economy.</quote> Do you really believe America's debt to China goes to the 1% and not China's operations? China lends money to America, America funds businesses that improve the country's GDP. When GDP increases, more trade is done with China and China's GDP improves. The more the trade helps China, the less China charges in interest. When trade value exceeds loan value, China offers negative interest to assist growth. The debt isn't paid in cash, it's paid in relations. Everybody in the US benefits when the US has enhanced GDP and this pseudo-guaranteed trade keeps China afloat too. It's not debt in the real world, it only exists on paper. darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>And a country the size and importance of the US defaulting on its payments would cause an immediate market crash that would dwarf the scale and impact of anything in the last 100 years.</quote> That's a problem with the stock market, not the debt. Ultimately negative interest is offered because people act ridiculously to things they don't understand. The US will never be charged what they can't pay because it is not sensible to harm a country that props up your economy. LinkPizza posted...</cite> <quote>Making them pay more isnt going to do anything to the company because theyll raise their prices so the tax wont affect them as much. Which make prices possibly skyrocket for consumers.</quote> Market forces. In a business where free market economics work naturally, spiking the price to offset costs kills off desirability and sales. It's more profitable to take the hit when people can't/won't pay more.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 08/30/19 3:28:15 PM #41:	And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people. Automation cant be stopped. It wont be stopped. Even if the US outlawed automation other countries would embrace it and wed quickly find ourselves unable to compete and likely lose our position as a world power. better to set up systems that make automation actually benefit people --- More malicious than mischievous <cite>Mead posted [p:926747358] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote><quote>And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people.</quote> Automation cant be stopped. It wont be stopped. Even if the US outlawed automation other countries would embrace it and wed quickly find ourselves unable to compete and likely lose our position as a world power. better to set up systems that make automation actually benefit people </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 08/30/19 3:33:50 PM #42:	LinkPizza posted... And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people. Automation severely reduces operating costs and when the tax offsets employment savings, the money goes to government spending, which can be a lot more beneficial than keeping shitty wage slave jobs alive. Imagine if automation tax was put entirely in to a social welfare fund. All the people who lost jobs would have access to means to gain better employment. It could fund unemployment benefits, it can pay for training, it can subsidise valuable industries. All it takes is proper management. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:926747616] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted...</cite> <quote>And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people.</quote> Automation severely reduces operating costs and when the tax offsets employment savings, the money goes to government spending, which can be a lot more beneficial than keeping shitty wage slave jobs alive. Imagine if automation tax was put entirely in to a social welfare fund. All the people who lost jobs would have access to means to gain better employment. It could fund unemployment benefits, it can pay for training, it can subsidise valuable industries. All it takes is proper management.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 08/30/19 3:36:50 PM #43:	It will be painful at first, but we need a big recession to get another crack at fixing the historic wealth and income imbalances and unfair tax laws/loopholes that SHOULD have been fixed after the last recession but were stymied. Tax shelters need to be addressed, corporate profits need to be taxed at point of sale (no more "I sold $3 billion in goods to Americans...in Ireland...where my corporate HQ is....yeah..."), capital gains need to be taxed at the same rates as income, and extremely high income brackets with large tax rates to match need to be established. Savings needs to stop being pummeled by the Federal Reserve so they can prop up the stock market. Housing prices, which only "benefit" those selling a house and not intending to move into another one and property flippers when they increase, need to come back down to earth so regular people can fucking afford them again. We need more laws like Florida's homestead law, that put huge taxes on any properties owned beyond the primary residence. And adopt laws like New Zealand is trying to, to tax foreign property investment (in particular the Chinese, looking for steady assets, have poured insane amounts of money...generated by dubious means from the Chinese government...into our coastal cities and caused an unaffordable spike in housing prices). Raise the interest rates and force housing prices lower. If you have a low housing price and a high interest rate, you can pay above the monthly requirement to massively reduce the total owed, or refinance when rates drop lower. If the base cost of the house itself is ridiculously overpriced, there's no escape, you're fucked for life unless you can find an even bigger sucker than you to pay yet still more for that house (hello, bubble!). <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:926747754] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>It will be painful at first, but we need a big recession to get another crack at fixing the historic wealth and income imbalances and unfair tax laws/loopholes that SHOULD have been fixed after the last recession but were stymied. Tax shelters need to be addressed, corporate profits need to be taxed at point of sale (no more "I sold $3 billion in goods to Americans...in Ireland...where my corporate HQ is....yeah..."), capital gains need to be taxed at the same rates as income, and extremely high income brackets with large tax rates to match need to be established. Savings needs to stop being pummeled by the Federal Reserve so they can prop up the stock market. Housing prices, which only "benefit" those selling a house and not intending to move into another one and property flippers when they increase, need to come back down to earth so regular people can fucking afford them again. We need more laws like Florida's homestead law, that put huge taxes on any properties owned beyond the primary residence. And adopt laws like New Zealand is trying to, to tax foreign property investment (in particular the Chinese, looking for steady assets, have poured insane amounts of money...generated by dubious means from the Chinese government...into our coastal cities and caused an unaffordable spike in housing prices). Raise the interest rates and force housing prices lower. If you have a low housing price and a high interest rate, you can pay above the monthly requirement to massively reduce the total owed, or refinance when rates drop lower. If the base cost of the house itself is ridiculously overpriced, there's no escape, you're fucked for life unless you can find an even bigger sucker than you to pay yet still more for that house (hello, bubble!).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 3:39:48 PM #44:	Kyuubi4269 posted... LinkPizza posted... Making them pay more isnt going to do anything to the company because theyll raise their prices so the tax wont affect them as much. Which make prices possibly skyrocket for consumers. Market forces. In a business where free market economics work naturally, spiking the price to offset costs kills off desirability and sales. It's more profitable to take the hit when people can't/won't pay more. But what if people can and will pay more. According to the of information, the extra money goes to the consumers. So, if the consumers can and will pay more, wouldnt it make sense to raise prices? Mead posted... And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people. Automation cant be stopped. It wont be stopped. Even if the US outlawed automation other countries would embrace it and wed quickly find ourselves unable to compete and likely lose our position as a world power. better to set up systems that make automation actually benefit people I know it cant be stopped. I just wish it could be. I dont see this turning out good in any way, really. Less jobs, more money spent at stores, etc... Kyuubi4269 posted... LinkPizza posted... And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people. Automation severely reduces operating costs and when the tax offsets employment savings, the money goes to government spending, which can be a lot more beneficial than keeping shitty wage slave jobs alive. Imagine if automation tax was put entirely in to a social welfare fund. All the people who lost jobs would have access to means to gain better employment. It could fund unemployment benefits, it can pay for training, it can subsidise valuable industries. All it takes is proper management. I like dealing with people better personally. Mainly because dealing with people can help save money. They can tell you about sales you may have missed. They can use coupons that just printed out. Or take expired ones, even though they shouldnt. If something is a little worn, they can even discount it for you some. Its little things like that that people do that automation usually wont... --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926747877] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted...</cite> <quote>Making them pay more isnt going to do anything to the company because theyll raise their prices so the tax wont affect them as much. Which make prices possibly skyrocket for consumers.</quote> Market forces. In a business where free market economics work naturally, spiking the price to offset costs kills off desirability and sales. It's more profitable to take the hit when people can't/won't pay more.</quote> But what if people can and will pay more. According to the of information, the extra money goes to the consumers. So, if the consumers can and will pay more, wouldnt it make sense to raise prices? Mead posted...</cite> <quote><quote>And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people.</quote> Automation cant be stopped. It wont be stopped. Even if the US outlawed automation other countries would embrace it and wed quickly find ourselves unable to compete and likely lose our position as a world power. better to set up systems that make automation actually benefit people </quote> I know it cant be stopped. I just wish it could be. I dont see this turning out good in any way, really. Less jobs, more money spent at stores, etc... Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted...</cite> <quote>And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people.</quote> Automation severely reduces operating costs and when the tax offsets employment savings, the money goes to government spending, which can be a lot more beneficial than keeping shitty wage slave jobs alive. Imagine if automation tax was put entirely in to a social welfare fund. All the people who lost jobs would have access to means to gain better employment. It could fund unemployment benefits, it can pay for training, it can subsidise valuable industries. All it takes is proper management.</quote> I like dealing with people better personally. Mainly because dealing with people can help save money. They can tell you about sales you may have missed. They can use coupons that just printed out. Or take expired ones, even though they shouldnt. If something is a little worn, they can even discount it for you some. Its little things like that that people do that automation usually wont...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 08/30/19 3:45:57 PM #45:	Kyuubi4269 posted... LinkPizza posted... And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people. Automation severely reduces operating costs and when the tax offsets employment savings, the money goes to government spending, which can be a lot more beneficial than keeping shitty wage slave jobs alive. Imagine if automation tax was put entirely in to a social welfare fund. All the people who lost jobs would have access to means to gain better employment. It could fund unemployment benefits, it can pay for training, it can subsidise valuable industries. All it takes is proper management. Corporate taxes need a complete overhaul. Start with a very high tax rate, like 40% or even a bit more. Get rid of ALL the existing tax breaks and loopholes. Add two new ones that can potentially result in very low tax rates for complying companies: - The biggest one is based on a ratio of their prior year's profits vs. the number of legal U.S. residents they employed the current year (someone who worked full time for 4 months would count as 1/3 of an employee, someone working part time all year would b 1/2, etc...). If your company has massive profits and few U.S. workers, it doesn't matter if it's due to automation, foreign outsourcing, etc... In the end....you're eating a huge tax bill. If your company employs a ton of U.S. workers and only makes modest profits, you have a very low tax bill. - I'd also try to add a 2nd lesser tax break that compares the highest paid employees' incomes (including value of stock assets) vs. the lowest paid employees' and gives tax breaks for those w/ smaller ratios. Add to that a high tax rate on income / capital gains of very high amounts, and companies have a good incentive to stop massively overpaying the corporate board and start paying their employees better. It won't stop automation, but it'll slow it down a little, giving us critical time to adapt to the societal change. As more companies move to automation and we collect more tax money as a result, that influx can be fund a Universal Basic Income to ensure everyone receives enough money to survive at least. A gradual transition over to UBI as the job losses mount. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:926748107] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted...</cite> <quote>And automation needs to stop. People lose jobs. And technically, consumers suffer, as well. Using real people can help save money for many people.</quote> Automation severely reduces operating costs and when the tax offsets employment savings, the money goes to government spending, which can be a lot more beneficial than keeping shitty wage slave jobs alive. Imagine if automation tax was put entirely in to a social welfare fund. All the people who lost jobs would have access to means to gain better employment. It could fund unemployment benefits, it can pay for training, it can subsidise valuable industries. All it takes is proper management.</quote> Corporate taxes need a complete overhaul. Start with a very high tax rate, like 40% or even a bit more. Get rid of ALL the existing tax breaks and loopholes. Add two new ones that can potentially result in very low tax rates for complying companies: - The biggest one is based on a ratio of their prior year's profits vs. the number of legal U.S. residents they employed the current year (someone who worked full time for 4 months would count as 1/3 of an employee, someone working part time all year would b 1/2, etc...). If your company has massive profits and few U.S. workers, it doesn't matter if it's due to automation, foreign outsourcing, etc... In the end....you're eating a huge tax bill. If your company employs a ton of U.S. workers and only makes modest profits, you have a very low tax bill. - I'd also try to add a 2nd lesser tax break that compares the highest paid employees' incomes (including value of stock assets) vs. the lowest paid employees' and gives tax breaks for those w/ smaller ratios. Add to that a high tax rate on income / capital gains of very high amounts, and companies have a good incentive to stop massively overpaying the corporate board and start paying their employees better. It won't stop automation, but it'll slow it down a little, giving us critical time to adapt to the societal change. As more companies move to automation and we collect more tax money as a result, that influx can be fund a Universal Basic Income to ensure everyone receives enough money to survive at least. A gradual transition over to UBI as the job losses mount.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
afrodude77 08/30/19 3:50:10 PM #46:	Kill the baby boomers is all I'm seeing from this --- WAR EAGLE --- <cite>afrodude77 posted [p:926748257] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Kill the baby boomers is all I'm seeing from this </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CharlesBronson 08/30/19 3:54:37 PM #47:	captpackrat posted... The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible. What? The republicans didn't lower interest rates, the federal reserve did. The federal reserve is not political. Know what your talking about or don't post. <cite>CharlesBronson posted [p:926748417] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>captpackrat posted...</cite> <quote>The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible.</quote> What? The republicans didn't lower interest rates, the federal reserve did. The federal reserve is not political. Know what your talking about or don't post.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 08/30/19 4:00:23 PM #48:	CharlesBronson posted... captpackrat posted... The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible. What? The republicans didn't lower interest rates, the federal reserve did. The federal reserve is not political. Know what your talking about or don't post. Trump's been publicly berating Jerome Powell, the Fed chair, demanding him to lower interest rates. Technically it's them doing it, but it's clearly at the impetus of the POTUS. There's no logical reason to lower interest rates when unemployment is very low and stocks are near record highs (and interest rates are still historically VERY low already). The Fed's putting a band aid on the issues that will crash this economy hard, to stave off the reckoning for as long as they can. But when it does happen, they won't be able to lower rates even more to alleviate the pain, making the inevitable recession even worse. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/business/budget-deal-fed-rate-cuts/index.html The unemployment rate is near 49-year lows, the stock market has never been higher and consumers are spending. That's not exactly the backdrop that would normally require the Federal Reserve and Congress to come to the rescue. "Washington is giving antibiotics to a healthy child. That's just bad medicine," said David Kelly, chief global strategist at JPMorgan Funds, in an interview with CNN Business. "We will look back and think about how irresponsible and adolescent we were to use every piece of monetary and fiscal ammunition to boost an economy that was doing just fine." <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:926748639] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>CharlesBronson posted...</cite> <quote>captpackrat posted...</cite> <quote>The next recession is going to be a doozy. The Republicans have already shot 2 of the 3 bullets the government can use to stimulate the economy, lowering taxes and lowering interest rates. The only bullet remaining is increased government spending, and with the already exploding debt thanks to Republican tax cuts, that may not be possible.</quote> What? The republicans didn't lower interest rates, the federal reserve did. The federal reserve is not political. Know what your talking about or don't post.</quote> Trump's been publicly berating Jerome Powell, the Fed chair, demanding him to lower interest rates. Technically it's them doing it, but it's clearly at the impetus of the POTUS. There's no logical reason to lower interest rates when unemployment is very low and stocks are near record highs (and interest rates are still historically VERY low already). The Fed's putting a band aid on the issues that will crash this economy hard, to stave off the reckoning for as long as they can. But when it does happen, they won't be able to lower rates even more to alleviate the pain, making the inevitable recession even worse. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/business/budget-deal-fed-rate-cuts/index.html <quote>The unemployment rate is near 49-year lows, the stock market has never been higher and consumers are spending. That's not exactly the backdrop that would normally require the Federal Reserve and Congress to come to the rescue. "Washington is giving antibiotics to a healthy child. That's just bad medicine," said David Kelly, chief global strategist at JPMorgan Funds, in an interview with CNN Business. "We will look back and think about how irresponsible and adolescent we were to use every piece of monetary and fiscal ammunition to boost an economy that was doing just fine." </quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkPizza 08/30/19 4:20:33 PM #49:	Also, how is everybody going to get this extra $1,000? Its not like they can send a check in the mail to everybody? --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:926749409] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>Also, how is everybody going to get this extra $1,000? Its not like they can send a check in the mail to everybody?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 08/30/19 4:21:50 PM #50:	LinkPizza posted... Its not like they can send a check in the mail to everybody? I hope you mean "what about people without homes or mail service?", because sending out a billion or whatever notices every month is rather easy. --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:926749462] in Upcoming r... [t:77974916]...</cite> <quote>LinkPizza posted...</cite> <quote>Its not like they can send a check in the mail to everybody?</quote> I hope you mean "what about people without homes or mail service?", because sending out a billion or whatever notices every month is rather easy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > Upcoming recession will destroy millennials. (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > Upcoming recession will destroy millennials.